Finebaum not too kind...

[Jkwo]

What do you mean using my logic? I just posted their records. I can't stand rat face or Finebaum for that matter.
There's a lot of variables in comparing Cal and K. Cal came here, to a great basketball school,as a big name coach, who was getting the top recruits in the nation even at lesser schools.
Completely different that when K went to Duke.
I'm not criticizing Cal, just saying in hindsight its disappointing considering how close we were to a few more titles.

Yeah, so don't extrapolate back to the 70s - just go back to '89 or so for K. Again, best talent in the country most years, sometimes overwhelmingly so, and according to some on this board, that means if he isn't absolutely horrible, he should win a title every 2 or 3 years.

 

[Poetax]

Finebaum said what has Cal really done??? Only won 1 title...is he their to go to final 4 or win titles??? Then Finebaum asked what Stoops has done to warrant 15 million dollar buyout?? Nobody knocking down his door

The little skinny

I like Cal, and hope Stoops turns it around but I think he has a point. Cal has had a great run at UK but when it comes right down to it if he were to leave right now he's got one championship.

Go ahead and criticize me for saying it. But if you look at all the talent Cal has had here don't you think it's sad that we only have one championship to show for it?

Now that Coach K has lost his experienced players but has all that young great talent why isn't he undefeated this year? Could it be a tougher job then we think? Or is K just overrated? Maybe some of our great fans will enlighten us.

 

[ck-2]

Yeah, so don't extrapolate back to the 70s - just go back to '89 or so for K. Again, best talent in the country most years, sometimes overwhelmingly so, and according to some on this board, that means if he isn't absolutely horrible, he should win a title every 2 or 3 years.

This era in college basketball is so different with the one and done it's hard or impossible to even compare to the pre one and done. It's a different animal and I hate it. But it is what it is I guess.

 

[Primedfor9]

I agree. And hope Cal stays for a long time. But when you look back at the teams loaded with talent he's had here it's pretty disappointing.

Lots of missed opportunities. Especially last year and 2010

Do you realize that when cal got here, rival fans said that he'd never when with primarily freshmen leading the way? Now that he's proven you can win at a high level it's he should when the title every year with that amount of talent. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Jkwo]

This era in college basketball is so different with the one and done it's hard or impossible to even compare to the pre one and done. It's a different animal and I hate it. But it is what it is I guess.

Sure, and nobody's asking you to do so accurately.

But if you look at what Cal has done over the past 6 years, which has been a run rarely matched in CBB history, and give him anything other than an A rating for his work, then in my estimation, the burden is on you to demonstrate why.

 

[ck-2]

Sure, and nobody's asking you to do so accurately.

But if you look at what Cal has done over the past 6 years, which has been a run rarely matched in CBB history, and give him anything other than an A rating for his work, then in my estimation, the burden is on you to demonstrate why.

I agree with you.
I don't know when or where in this thread I said Cal has done a bad job. Just that I'm disappointed we haven't won another championship. I didn't realize that I am the only fan that thought we had it in the bag last year. And I'm still disappointed that we didn't win it all.
Timing also plays a big role in success IMO. Last years team would've waltzed to the championship this year with little to no opposition.

 

[Jkwo]

I agree with you.
I don't know when or where in this thread I said Cal has done a bad job. Just that I'm disappointed we haven't won another championship. I didn't realize that I am the only fan that thought we had it in the bag last year. And I'm still disappointed that we didn't win it all.
Timing also plays a big role in success IMO. Last years team would've waltzed to the championship this year with little to no opposition.

You're certainly not the only one disappointed, but I also didn't think we had it in the bag. Last year featured 3 (5 if you include healthy VA) of the better teams in the last decade (plus Arizona, who would've been #1 many other years), and single elimination tournaments make things even more dangerous, even for a legendary team.

 

[ck-2]

You're certainly not the only one disappointed, but I also didn't think we had it in the bag. Last year featured 3 (5 if you include healthy VA) of the better teams in the last decade (plus Arizona, who would've been #1 many other years), and single elimination tournaments make things even more dangerous, even for a legendary team.

You're right about Arizona and Virginia. What I didn't say was once Anderson was injured for Virginia and Arizona lost and we were in the final four I thought it was ours. My biggest worry was Duke and their flopping. Not Wisconsin.

 

[Maubris]

Hey, did you guys see what somebody said about UK?

 

[CloverforkCat]

I agree. And hope Cal stays for a long time. But when you look back at the teams loaded with talent he's had here it's pretty disappointing.

Lots of missed opportunities. Especially last year and 2010

He pointed out that Cal has been to 6 FF's UMass, Memphis, and 4 at UK, and has 1 NC. Hadn't thought about it that way, but he has a point.

 

[kats23]

The problem is Cal is a victim of his own success. While getting to the FF with 2 teams that shouldn't of been there, that's caused a few fans and analysts to try to look deeper than they should. However, with that said, if Cal goes to 3 more FF in the next 4 years with no titles and wrangling in top 3 recruiting classes , you better believe there will be a lot of questions.

There's more to success than Final Fours and championships but we've had a lot of talent come through here is the past 7 years so I get the questions but if you look at the team honestly, there is only one team that really blew it that should of been there and that was last year. '10 is close but we were pretty thin and had more holes in that roster

 

[kybassfan]

Living in Alabama, I've had to suffer with Balls Pinefarm (my pet name for Finebaum) for years. He thrives on digging up crap on Universities, mainly AL and AU, particularly if that crap leads to NCAA probes. He used to brag about getting coaches fired and that was part of his program's daily intro. Bottom line is thevguy is a snake, bit like a smarter Tipton on steroids.

I don't listen to him anymore. The guy is trouble.

 

[irishcat1965]

He pointed out that Cal has been to 6 FF's UMass, Memphis, and 4 at UK, and has 1 NC. Hadn't thought about it that way, but he has a point.

Izzo has one title in seven final fours.

 

[CUT-NETS]

I like Cal, and hope Stoops turns it around but I think he has a point. Cal has had a great run at UK but when it comes right down to it if he were to leave right now he's got one championship.

Go ahead and criticize me for saying it. But if you look at all the talent Cal has had here don't you think it's sad that we only have one championship to show for it?

Been saying this for a while. Whether UK fans like it or not, that will be the perception of Cal. Tons of talent, only one title.

 

[CloverforkCat]

Izzo has one title in seven final fours.

Didn't realize that....... call Finebaum !

 

[ck-2]

Didn't realize that....... call Finebaum !

And he's not in the HOF.

 

[irishcat1965]

Been saying this for a while. Whether UK fans like it or not, that will be the perception of Cal. Tons of talent, only one title.

It isn't the perception at all. His time isn't finished here. And except for Coach K there isn't one active coach that can hold his jock as far as success.

 

[irishcat1965]

And he's not in the HOF.

Name one active coach except for Coach K that has had his success.

 

[ck-2]

Name one active coach except for Coach K that has had his success.

Who? Cal or Izzo?

 

[irishcat1965]

Who? Cal or Izzo?

Cal of course.

 

[ck-2]

Name one active coach except for Coach K that has had his success.

I don't understand why you keep coming at me like I'm criticizing Cal? I've said over and over I like him. I'm tickled to death to have him. But disappointed we didn't win it all last year.

As for your question, how is success measured? Championships, final fours, elite eights, number one recruiting classes, number one draft picks, first round picks, etc. That is debatable.
I was stating that Izzo isn't in the HOF because I find that surprising really. However he has been nominated for this years class.

 

[irishcat1965]

I don't understand why you keep coming at me like I'm criticizing Cal? I've said over and over I like him. I'm tickled to death to have him. But disappointed we didn't win it all last year.

As for your question, how is success measured? Championships, final fours, elite eights, number one recruiting classes, number one draft picks, first round picks, etc. That is debatable.
I was stating that Izzo isn't in the HOF because I find that surprising really. However he has been nominated for this years class.

I'm not coming at you at all. Just countering your points. Success in the NCAA tournament is a great measuring stick. In six years, Cal has a final eight, 4 final fours, including two championship games and a title. Once again, only Coach K is the same conversation since he has two titles.

 

[ck-2]

To me when it's all said and done success is measured by championships. I would trade every final four banner hanging in Rupp for one more championship in a heartbeat. Would you?

I think Cal has helped a lot of kids reach their dream while here. I also think he's been a great ambassador for the program, state, and university. But when Cal leaves the head coaching job at UK and the dust settles his success here will be measured in championships just like every coach before him and all that follow.

 

[Blueaz]

I agree with everything you guys are saying. I'm just saying throw out all the ifs and buts and Cal has just as many championships as tubby had here with Ricks players. To me that's disappointing.
Cal has been to 6 final fours. 4 at KY and has one championship.
Rat face has been to 12 final fours and has 5 championships.
Last years loss really is the one that's thought to swallow.

if you think about it more, it may be easier to swallow

 

[ck-2]

if you think about it more, it may be easier to swallow

Tough. . You caught me.

 

[jameslee32]

Someone tell Finebum it takes 6 straight tournament wins in a 3-week period to win the thing. It ain't college foosball by a long shot.

 

[jameslee32]

The difference between one title and two is huge for some people. Win two and you are a legend but win only one and you are a bum.

Yeah, a bum in the HOF.

 

[Jkwo]

To me when it's all said and done success is measured by championships. I would trade every final four banner hanging in Rupp for one more championship in a heartbeat. Would you?

Probably not, tbh.

I consider UK to be the greatest program of all time.

You can make a case for UCLA because they have 3 more titles but are vastly behind in every other category - but still, most serious CBB fans put UK at #1.

Now, you're telling me if you had the same scenario, except UCLA only had one more title than us, and you'd take UCLA's pedigree?

I'm sorry man, but I can't go with that. A school is more than just its championship years. UK is special because of its sustained excellence over nearly a century, and relatively few of those years have been championship seasons. Sure, those are the best seasons, but they're not the only successful ones.

To use a non-UK example, I'd take Kansas's pedigree over UCONN's any day, even though UCONN has one more championship.

 

[rye48]

Cal talks about his players not playing up to their Potential or not dominating the way they should ,,well maybe he should walk the walk

 

[ck-2]

Probably not, tbh.

I consider UK to be the greatest program of all time.

You can make a case for UCLA because they have 3 more titles but are vastly behind in every other category - but still, most serious CBB fans put UK at #1.

Now, you're telling me if you had the same scenario, except UCLA only had one more title than us, and you'd take UCLA's pedigree?

I'm sorry man, but I can't go with that. A school is more than just its championship years. UK is special because of its sustained excellence over nearly a century, and relatively few of those years have been championship seasons. Sure, those are the best seasons, but they're not the only successful ones.

To use a non-UK example, I'd take Kansas's pedigree over UCONN's any day, even though UCONN has one more championship.

I see what you're saying. I also think KY is the greatest program. But not just because of the final fours etc. KY has championships under multiple coaches. UCLA for the most part was successful in one era under one coach.

 

[CUT-NETS]

It isn't the perception at all. His time isn't finished here. And except for Coach K there isn't one active coach that can hold his jock as far as success.

Its evidently Finebaum's perception. He's only one of the more well-known sports radio host in the country.

 

[Jkwo]

I see what you're saying. I also think KY is the greatest program. But not just because of the final fours etc. KY has championships under multiple coaches. UCLA for the most part was successful in one era under one coach.

Totally agree with you. But a literal-minded individual who only wanted to talk about championships might write off your point as loser talk - that only number of championships matter.

I, like you, am interested in context and other factors that fill in the gaps.

 

[CUT-NETS]

What so many have a hard time comprehending, including many of our own fans (which is not surprising) is the fact that our "talent" is based off high school projections and perceived potential for the NBA draft.

Bledsoe was not nearly the player he has become.

Wall was averaging way too many turnovers.

Cousins couldn't stay on the floor longer than 15 mins every game.

Orton was a non-factor.

Knight had to learn to handle the scoring lead and distributor role.

Our foreign top 3 NBA draft pick center never played.

Teague took all season to come around.

Noel lost half of his year.

The twins were overrated offensively.

Randle couldnt handle the triple team for 90% of the season.

Young couldnt play defense or pass the ball.

Lee was overrrated.

Alex was overrrated.

Dakari was overrated.

Willie took 3 years and still had issues in consistency and on offense.

KAT had to learn how to play in the post.

Lyles played out of position.

Booker played terrible defense.



You could look at this and say it was pretty incredible that he got these kids to learn to play together and improve their skills well enough to make all those final fours.

The fact that we have made it so often makes many people believe that it is no great feat to get there.

The only thing disappointing is that we have been so close a few times.


Complaining about Cal losing those 3 games (10, 14, 15 - including me) and never take into account what he had to do to just to get there is unfair to coach.

If Skal is drafted in the 1st round it will be indisputable evidence that your perceived NBA potential has zero to do with you "talent and abilities" in college.

With all the trouble that comes with one and dones that you listed, all of their flaws, their shortcomings, etc………….why rely on that system?

You can't base your entire program on that philosophy and then use its flaws as an excuse when it doesn't work out. Thats honestly the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.

That would be like me choosing to drive a Ford in a race and then when I don't win I just talk about how much of a disadvantage I was in because I drove a Ford.

 

[Jkwo]

Its evidently Finebaum's perception. He's only one of the more well-known sports radio host in the country.

He's known for football and nothing else. Specifically, college football. More specifically, SEC football. Even more specifically, Alabama football.

Jay Bilas, on the other hand, is universally recognized as the best basketball mind in the media, and he regularly dogs people who argue that Cal isn't a good coach.

 

[CUT-NETS]

Coach K had zero titles his first 9 years at Duke. He has 5 titles in 35 years. Using your logic he was a failure. Also, UK has had 4 titles in 58 years. So once again using your logic, every coach including Rupp at UK has been disappointing. Bottom line is your opinion is flawed and ridiculous.

I very seriously doubt in Coach K's first 9 years that he had anywhere near the talent that Cal has had at UK. Amazes me that this is the one thing that posters on here constantly leave out of the equation or just forget all-together. Cal has had INCREDIBLE TALENT!! I don't think Finebaum would mention one word about "only one title" if Cal's recruiting classes were averaging in the bottom of the SEC year in and year out.

 

[CUT-NETS]

Yeah, so don't extrapolate back to the 70s - just go back to '89 or so for K. Again, best talent in the country most years, sometimes overwhelmingly so, and according to some on this board, that means if he isn't absolutely horrible, he should win a title every 2 or 3 years.

Dude you've used the word "extrapolate" in three posts today alone. Time for a new "big word" to make yourself sound smart. You are running that word into the ground.

 

[irishcat1965]

Its evidently Finebaum's perception. He's only one of the more well-known sports radio host in the country.

Because he is one of the most well known sports radio hosts doesn't mean anything. It's one man's opinion, nothing more.

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

Other than Wooden of course...has there been another coach other than Cal who has been to the FF in 4 out of 6 years? Haven't looked it up but I don't think so.

 

[dlh331]

Its evidently Finebaum's perception. He's only one of the more well-known sports radio host in the country.

Having lived in BHam the past 40 years I suspect I know more about Finebaum than a clown like you. Paul despises UK and always has. He was Ernie Grunfeld's roommate at Tennessee and has written many times of his disdain for Coach Rupp, Hall, and Calipari. He did suck up to Pitino a bit.

Paul delights in bashing anything and everything that is not Alabama/Nick Saban.

Darryl

 

[ck-2]

Totally agree with you. But a literal-minded individual who only wanted to talk about championships might write off your point as loser talk - that only number of championships matter.

I, like you, am interested in context and other factors that fill in the gaps.

I too am happy we have the final fours, elite eights, sec championships to build our programs resume. I just hope Cal can win another title or two before he leaves.