Do you really think the Unforgettables' jerseys should be in the rafters?

[StubbornPenny]

They should be up there, but it doesn't have to be individual jerseys. One jersey with all their names should suffice. I think leaving Rick's name up there is okay... hell, it probably bugs the hell out of him, which is all the more reason to keep it up.

But if you think they don't deserve to be up there on merit, you're just wrong. You don't remember how close we were to becoming a San Francisco or a Cincinnati. We could just as easily be a middling, has-been program right now, or best case scenario would have been one for 10-15 years after. That season meant more than the sum of it's parts.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Diary]

+1

no, I don't think they should be up there individually. BUt something should be there for the guys who stayed around and helped resurrect our program

 

[UK90]

Not at all. Was nothing more than a publicity stunt by a guy with too big of an ego. No way with this programs tradition should a group of players who never even reached a final four have their jersey's hanging. At least not without some kind of personal accomplishments.

Exactly. Those jerseys were hung for the wrong reasons. It was something Pitino pushed for as a self-serving ego-driven thing to help cement his legacy. And he got support for it from some eastern Ky coal boosters with an agenda and a fan base that had grown disproportionately attached to that class for reasons unrelated to their actual play.

And, let's be blunt, the reason the fan base grew so disproportionately attached to that class is largely because 3 of the 4 were white guys from small town Ky. If that had been four black kids from Detroit or Chicago who'd had the exact same careers there's not a chance in hell their jerseys would be hanging from the rafters today. And when you've got hanging jerseys that would not be up there if the player was from a different racial/demographic background ...well, that's NOT a good thing.

Retiring their jerseys was a knee jerk move that may've emotionally felt good at the time, but really was a mistake in the long run. And all the reasons people now give to try to justify it are full of holes or largely bunk.

 

[UK90]

Stop with this "true fan" crap. One of those names up there stole/misused over 100k in state funds for his personal benefit.

Plus he was a crappy player who usually hurt us more than helped when he was on the floor.

I will say 3 of the 4 were at least pretty good players (especially Pelphrey). But Farmer was not. Farmer stunk. A 6'0" SG with no point guard skills, no defensive ability, no ability to penetrate, not much of passer, not much of a handle ..really not able to do much of anything other than shoot ...except that he did not even shoot that well, so he essentially did nothing well for us Hey, let's retire his jersey!!!

.

 

[JonathanW]

My first year at UK in grad school was the 92 season. I was there for the unveiling. Not a dry eye in Rupp.
But I thought all along that they shouldn't have had individual jerseys, but rather a group jersey hung. They weren't there because of what they did as individuals, but rather what they accomplished and overcame as a group.

 

[JonathanW]

My first year at UK in grad school was the 92 season. I was there for the unveiling. Not a dry eye in Rupp.
But I thought all along that they shouldn't have had individual jerseys, but rather a group jersey hung. They weren't there because of what they did as individuals, but rather what they accomplished and overcame as a group.

Maybe someone could design what it would look like, but what I have in mind is:

92 Unforgetables

Farmer Pelphrey
Feldhaus Woods

 

[mj2k10]

Yes, but I do think you need to have lived through it all to truly understand. The late 80's were dark days for UK's basketball program. Very dark. It seemed almost weekly there was some little story about the allegations, and overall it was a headline scandal leading to the infamous SI cover. In today's world there would have been TV shows talking about it just about every day. Let's not even imagine the internet. At the time I was working at a place with people from schools all over the country, and I endured a fair amount of mostly good natured joking about the whole thing. Getting my perspective? You really need to have it to understand how much that team meant to us. To see the program rise so quickly from what had felt like total annihilation. Those guys stayed when so many left, and they played better than we ever hoped they could. They belong up there, and so does their coach. His banner is not for the guy we now know, but for the UK coach we knew then.

Yes.

March of 1988 through May of 1989 was about 14 months straight of pure misery. UK had its worst season ever in 88-89, and then lost the 2 best players from that team. There were fans who were arguing that the 89-90 season should be cancelled because it was going to be too embarrassing.

Then, 3 years later, a team composed mostly of those same players reached an Elite 8 and played the #1, soon to be defending champ down to the last shot, in a game that entered the conversation for greatest ever the second it ended. And put together a 3 year record of 65-27.

People can scoff at it now, but UK was very possibly headed towards an IU-like dip, had UK hired the wrong coach, and if Pelphrey, Feldhaus, Woods, and Farmer hadn't stepped up in a big, big way. The dip might not have been as long as what IU's had, but we easily could have seen something like the 6-25, 10-21, 12-20 seasons that marked the start of Tom Crean's tenure. Instead, it's a fondly remembered era, even if the achievements don't match with UK's historical success.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

We had an AD, C M Newton who got all caught up in the excitement of winning again that he would have put Mickey Mouse up in the rafters. He put several up there who probably shouldn't be and left a few out that should be. But it is what it is.

 

[jedwar]

and that's what this thread is, in hindsight it seems that we shouldn't have gone that far. But also understand the emotions at the time, and at the time it seemed a good idea.

Someone mentioned Mashburn - IIRC his name isn't up there? If we're going to honor that TEAM what they did, he should've been included.

and KWilt - don't question my fanhood, nor anyone else's because of their opinion on this. No one is saying they shouldn't be recognized, it's how they should've been.

I believe Mash's is up there.

 

[jedwar]

Certainly a passionate topic

https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/jerseys-in-rupp-rafters-my-controversial-take.111267/

 

[Blueaz]

Being a lifelong resident and fan of UK, I would say that most TRUE UK fans would take exception to someone even mentioning removing the jerseys. They were invaluable in bringing UK back to glory at the pinnacle of college basketball. I guess you would want to take down Cawoods or Bill Keightlys as well. NO NO NO

well, hell you are right only TRUE fans...such BS strawman

 

[Blueaz]

You serious Clark?

sorry, I was trolling a bit...

 

[UKGrad93]

Leave them up, except change Richie Farmers to prison orange with his prison id number.

 

[WildmanWilson]

Time has a way of making people forget to honor those that did outstanding and brave things. Not just sports but out veterans that gave their lives. I mean how many really care what happened at Pearl Harbor now? The young was apart of it and the older people die off. The World Trade Center is another point.

So people can soon forget the Unforgettables the same way. What they did was amazing at the time but the importance fades away like everything overtime.

 

[Deli owl]

No

 

[wobycat]

Considering the fact that we are talking about them 20+ years later, like we haven't forgotten them, then yes the banners should hang. The players were honored for what they did during that season, not what they did later in life, and, yes, it was a fan's dream season.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Diary]

You don't see banners hanging up for Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Patterson and those guys who helped bring our program back after the Billy G experiment. Were we as low as Sutton left us? No but with the exception of the probation part our talent level wasn't far from that time. Those guys turned around our program in 1 year and will probably never be recognized due to most of them being 1 and done guys.

 

[UK90]

Time has a way of making people forget to honor those that did outstanding and brave things. Not just sports but out veterans that gave their lives. I mean how many really care what happened at Pearl Harbor now? The young was apart of it and the older people die off. The World Trade Center is another point.

So people can soon forget the Unforgettables the same way. What they did was amazing at the time but the importance fades away like everything overtime.

What are you talking about? Good lord, they did not do any "brave things" that should ever be uttered in the same breath as events like Pearl Harbor/WTC. And they did not do anything that other UK players from that era (who happened not to be white ky kids) did not also do without getting the special recognition. My goodness, what a preposterously over the top analogy.

 

[KneeBurns]

Helms and Unforgettables. interesting choices schools make for banners.

 

[KA4Prez]

People forget that this was almost a quarter century ago. I, for instance, became HOOKED during that season. We have a vast amount of fans who weren't fans then and many who were way too young to remember the team at all. The opinions will only continue to waver as time passes.

 

[TeoJ]

Like a lot of final fours,do you remember where you were when they got beat by Duke that night? Do you remember feeling we're back.I was thinking none of these guys except Mash were that good,how did they accomplish what they did? Yes they need to stay up in the Rafters.

 

[ymmot31]

Maybe someone could design what it would look like, but what I have in mind is:

92 Unforgetables

Farmer Pelphrey
Feldhaus Woods

I gave you a like for this post because you quoted your own post and gave yourself a suggestion. Work it.

 

[BoulderCat]

Yes.

March of 1988 through May of 1989 was about 14 months straight of pure misery. UK had its worst season ever in 88-89, and then lost the 2 best players from that team. There were fans who were arguing that the 89-90 season should be cancelled because it was going to be too embarrassing.

Then, 3 years later, a team composed mostly of those same players reached an Elite 8 and played the #1, soon to be defending champ down to the last shot, in a game that entered the conversation for greatest ever the second it ended. And put together a 3 year record of 65-27.

People can scoff at it now, but UK was very possibly headed towards an IU-like dip, had UK hired the wrong coach, and if Pelphrey, Feldhaus, Woods, and Farmer hadn't stepped up in a big, big way. The dip might not have been as long as what IU's had, but we easily could have seen something like the 6-25, 10-21, 12-20 seasons that marked the start of Tom Crean's tenure. Instead, it's a fondly remembered era, even if the achievements don't match with UK's historical success.

No argument here obviously. I understand that other's feel differently, some strongly, but only the one's who went through it really count in my mind however they might feel about it. Those guys, including a black kid from Indiana, took us on quite a ride, and maybe it was a quick reaction, but one which I still approve of. Certainly Mashburn deserves his place in the rafter's as well. If for nothing else it's worth remembering what it's like to go through a scandal and end up on probation. It's not an experience I ever want to see UK basketball go through again. That's why that compliance office we instituted works so hard to make sure it never does.

 

[crestcat]

You don't see banners hanging up for Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Patterson and those guys who helped bring our program back after the Billy G experiment. Were we as low as Sutton left us? No but with the exception of the probation part our talent level wasn't far from that time. Those guys turned around our program in 1 year and will probably never be recognized due to most of them being 1 and done guys.

Maybe if they hadn't gone down like a Kamikaze

 

[Poetax]

There is a precedent. Guys like Gayle Rose are in the rafters because Rupp wanted to honor the undefeated team from 1954. Other than Hagan, Ramsey and Tsiropolous, none of those guys "deserve" it. But I have no problem with it.

I don't think it devalues it.

This is my thought also. I don't get why it bothers anybody honestly. Some point that there are more deserving and my thoughts on that is put them up there with the rest, the more the merrier.

 

[Poetax]

Stop with this "true fan" crap. One of those names up there stole/misused over 100k in state funds for his personal benefit.

Can't say I'd have any problem with someone not wanting his jersey up there.

If he had been a democrat, they would have had an excuse for him like always, lol.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Statistically, no. (Woods and Pel are arguable)

Sentimentally, sure.

Reeeee-chie should come down, though.

 

[KentuckyWildcat4Life]

Another useless thread stirring the big pot of "what if shit"
Be happy with our tradition and history and stop trying to change it.

 

[Xception]

They shouldn't be up there but what's done is done . It's hypocritical to not hang a one and done player because they didn't stay long enough to accumulate stats but have that sentimental banner .

 

[brianpoe]

Yea I think they should be, there were three Kentucky boys on that team that stuck with the program and they could have left, but they stayed and helped the team reach what people thought were unattainable heights, like someone said earlier, the program was about as low as it could be during that time.

Where were they going to go?

Woods maybe? He was the only prized recruit from those 4.

But the other 3 were coming and staying at UK no matter what.

There was no sense of bravery in staying.

There was a bunch of hard work and some overachieving.


Here are the facts regarding that game:

Mashburn had 28 and 10 that game.

Dale Brown scored 18.

Woods had 21

Feldaus had 5 points and 1 rebound in 37 minutes.

Farmer came off the bench for 9 points.

Pelphrey had 16 and the worst defense on a last second shot in history.


For their careers...

Pelphrey was an 11 point scorer with a high of 12 his sr year.
Feldhaus was a career 10 point scorer.
Farmer 7.
Woods 9.

That 92 season Mashburn averaged 21 & 8.

Dale Brown played well toward the end of the season and Sophomore Gimel scored more points in '92 than any other season at UK.

Mashburn carried the team in 92.


Another player that helped us the previous year that never receives any credit is Reggie Hansen - playing center at 6'7 and 200 pounds was a leading scorer and the top rebounder.

But as far as being responsible for the return to greatness Pitino gets it by himself. He introduced a new style of play in the pressing and 3 pointer, and he was able to recruit Mash to come here.

 

[Estil]

I'm honestly quite surprised that there is this much opposition to those numbers retired. What they did was indeed "unforgettable" and truly special. I mean, our program had hit rock bottom (Kentucky's Shame anyone?) and some of the other guys couldn't leave/transfer out fast enough (*cough* Rex Chapman). To have these four very special players take us to the brink of the Final Four as seniors (not to mention avoiding another losing season in 1990 after Bill Keightley (I think) remarked that Pitino should get Coach of the Year if they get more than 5-10(?) wins that year).

And for those who are playing the race card and remarking "if they were black players from [insert big city]" that too was missing the whole point! The fact that they were homegrown Kentucky boys was also what added to the lore. And frankly, I kinda miss that we don't have hardly anybody from Kentucky on our team anymore

And now after almost 25 years only two players (Mashburn and Delk) got their jersey retired since. So indeed they intended all along for that honor to be truly special.

I gotta go on the side that says it was absolutely the right call to retire the quartet's jerseys (and what's up with that silly have four guys on one? Name any other team that ever done such a thing).

 

[Ryan Lemonds Diary]

Maybe if they hadn't gone down like a Kamikaze

In the elite 8 just like the Unforgettables

 

[Lra1]

I have never seen a team do so much with so little. I remember going to BBM and wondering if we had anyone who could dunk the basketball. I remember no tv. I remember all our non Kentucky all stars leaving us with only Kentucky boys and walk ons. I remember a new coach who boldly stated that he would fill up Rupp arener. yes arener. I remember easily getting into BBM at Memorial col. I remember having high expectations Eric Manual, Chris Mills, a 6'11 kid from California all leaving. We went from the top to the bottom in one year. Rex Chapman left for the NBA everyone else left for greener pastures. All we had left were a bunch of Kentucky kids that had pride in our state and wanted to bring us back from the absolute depths of college basketball. A depth that we had never experienced before or since. The last game of that first Pitino season was to determine if we would have a winning record. I believe the previous year was a losing record? This maybe off topic but I will never forget the unforgettables whether they are in the rafters or not. There are many (and I under stand) only have the statistics to go by. I lived the period in the 89-90-91 era and experienced the frustration and also the jubilation.

 

[WildmanWilson]

What are you talking about? Good lord, they did not do any "brave things" that should ever be uttered in the same breath as events like Pearl Harbor/WTC. And they did not do anything that other UK players from that era (who happened not to be white ky kids) did not also do without getting the special recognition. My goodness, what a preposterously over the top analogy.

I never said they were on the same level of importance idiot. Just that time makes people forget. What was seen as so important to the people of the time, will soon be just a thought in passing. That's why I bring up the things I did because just how many people do you know that really honors the lives lost at Pearl Harbor? Most don't even have a clue when it happened. The strong feelings we had at 911 is lost on the new generations because they don't hold that connection we do.

I wasn't downplaying those historic events. I thought anyone with a brain could see I was only talking about how the importance of past events fade. If people hardly give those highly important things a second thought then it's very easy to see how they forget what a basketball team did to bring back hope.

 

[UK90]

I remember all our non Kentucky all stars leaving us with only Kentucky boys and walk ons. I remember a new coach who boldly stated that he would fill up Rupp arener. yes arener. I remember easily getting into BBM at Memorial col. I remember having high expectations Eric Manual, Chris Mills, a 6'11 kid from California all leaving. We went from the top to the bottom in one year. Rex Chapman left for the NBA everyone else left for greener pastures. All we had left were a bunch of Kentucky kids that had pride in our state and wanted to bring us back from the absolute depths of college basketball. .

This is such bullshit. I swear, it's like some of you think if you just repeat this dishonest fairy tale enough times the lie will become true. There was NEVER EVER a year when it was just "Kentucky boys and walk ons", indeed it was never ever even close to that.

Just who do you think was the best player on that 89-90 team? It was DERRICK MILLER, a Georgia kid, who averaged nearly 20 ppg and was the clear best player and leader of that team. Without Miller, that team would've been absurdly screwed. Yet, oddly enough, folks like you seem to have forgotten Miller even existed when you tell that story today.

Another guy who gets strangely forgotten is the SECOND best player on that team, Reggie Hanson, who was merely our second leading scorer, our leading rebounder, our leading shotblocker, our leader in steals, and by far our best defensive player. And the weird thing is Hanson actually was from Ky, yet for some reason never got remembered with affection the same way Farmer/Feldhaus/Pel did, despite the fact that he was a better player and (unlike them) actually sacrificed something by staying. Hmmm....I wonder why that is (couldn't possibly have anything to do with skin color, right?).

And, of course, the starting point guard on that team was Woods, an Indiana kid. Another vital part of that team was Jeff Brassow, a Texas kid. And a couple Florida kids, Braddy and Davis, were also contributors that season. And then after that first season a bunch of other out of state recruits began pouring in (Mashburn,Martinez, Brown, Riddick, etc.) and we were soon off to the races again. The laughable myth of "only Ky boys and walk ons" is nothing but a ridiculous fairy tale.

I'm curious, why did guys like Miller/Hanson/Brassow, etc. never get any special recognition for choosing to stay or honor their commitment? After all, they made a much bigger sacrifice than "the unforgettables" by choosing to stay, as they had other options and less incentive and more to lose by staying. Hell, for guys like Farmer/Pel/Feldhaus, staying was an EASY choice and obviously the one that made the most sense even if analyzed from a purely selfish and future financial interest standpoint.

Yet we pretend like they're the ones who made the sacrifice and forget guys like Miller and Hanson were even part of it. What a joke.

 

[brianpoe]

KY White Boy Effect

No way to keep Woods out, couldn't believe it when they kept Mash out.


A look at their careers:


1989 Leading Scorers
Ellis
Mills
Miller

1990 Leading Scorers
Miller
Hansen

1991 Leading Scorers
Pelphrey
Hansen
Mash


1992 Leading Scorers
Mash
Pelphrey


I loved these kids, it was a great comeback. But many guys played major roles as well,

Miller, Hansen, Brown, Martinez, Brassow, even Junior Braddy played a ton.


I remember that time vividly and those teams overachieved and played harder than other UK team since. But it was definitely more than just 4 guys.

 

[Lra1]

Great points UK90 Reggie should have been up there as well. Must have been my dementia. It is good to have level headed historians like you to keep us on the right path. LOL

 

[UK90]

Great points UK90 Reggie should have been up there as well. Must have been my dementia. It is good to have level headed historians like you to keep us on the right path. LOL

Sorry if my tone sounded harsh in that post. But I will say the fact that you forgot about Reggie only illustrates my point. Amazing how many people have forgotten about guys like Derrick Miller and Hanson on that team, despite the fact that they were CLEARLY its best players.

And, fwiw, you are far from the only one to say that "only Ky boys" line, it's something I've heard WAY too many times over the years, which is why it sets me off--it is totally NOT true, yet it's amazing how many people in this state still say it and believe it anyways. Kinda reminds of an old line about propaganda--if you just repeat a lie enough times eventually the public comes to accept it as truth.

And, no, Reggie should not be "up there as well." Instead none of them should've been put up in the first place. The rafters should be reserved for our all time greats only, and with no special exceptions made for in-state players whose appearance gave some fans a warm and fuzzy feeling.

 

[rockhound24]

I sometimes question the motives of discussions like this. I wonder if people are just looking for new ideas for cracks to further an agenda. I really don't know if the point is to try to start a campaign to take down the banners or just a discussion as to whether they should have been put up in the first place. I see NO reason to take the banners of the Unforgettables down. We can debate the one player with personal issues, but the others should stay.

Someone mentioned that time makes people forget. That is true. In my almost 52 years as a sports fanatic, I have never been more proud of a team and more devastated by a single loss. Many on here have talked about each player and his contributions. I want you to understand the contributions of the TEAM. In 1991-92 , UK had been to 1 Final Four since 1978. The 1984 infamous 3-33 2nd half loss to Georgetown. He had been thru Eddie, Manuel, probation, players running away like we were the plague. It is true that the 91-92 team didn't come out of nowhere. We did go 22-6 the year before. We played a style that didn't seem to fit, but it did. Typically when you have the lesser talented team athletically, you try to limit possessions... not us. We played the game with reckless abandon. It was a style that the players loved and the fans adored. I know that some will argue this, but I do believe that this group paved the way to our success from 1991-98.

I have been a fan of the Cincinnati Reds, Minnesota Vikings, Boston Celtics and UK since 1969-70. The Unforgettables are still my favorite team/season of All-time and it's not even really that close. I do realize that UK, and we as fans, are going to need to find "NEW" criteria for banners. The "one and done" rule has totally change the game from a historical approach for us.

P.S. - People forget that Duke team was the defending NCAA champs. They beat the ultra-talented UNLV team(45 wins in a row) in 1991 in the final four. It wasn't a team of new players either. Duke returned virtually the same roster.

 

[zannmann]

They should have honored the entire team and not just 4 random players from a list of many players who brought us back.