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DJ Wagner

thedahc

thedahc

Freshman
Aug 3, 2006
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A thread just popped up from November that has become and remains a DJ Wagner bashing thread. I don't get it.

I feel like DJ is getting similar treatment on this board to what some fans gave Reeves last year and for a similar reason.

They are clearly different players with vastly different skill sets but last year Reeves was disrepected constantly by some on this board and some unbelievably continue to discount what Reeves did last year and does to this day.

Here is why I think it is similar:
Some on this board saw Reeves as standing in the way of CJ Fredrick and his playing time. Outsider over a Kentucky kid.
I think some on this board see DJ as standing in the way of Reed. Outsider over Kentucky kid.

In my opinion if this is the case both are silly. First of all Reeves is and was light years better than CJ ever was or will be.
Second, Reed and DJ co-exist and do so nicely on the court and Reed continues to get starter minutes (currently 4th on the team and 2nd most for a freshman on the team)

I do not get the DJ slander at all. DJ is a big part of this teams success and has made some big buckets for this team. Also we saw what it looked like without him. He has missed one game. Anyone remember how that went?
 
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Simple answer. Expectations. You exceed, live up to, or don’t live up to. Goes with every athlete out there when they get on campus, as long as the fan base cares about the sport.
 
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DJ's fine and has been improving all year. He's an important piece to this team, and we won't make a run in March without him.

The two things I see DJ get criticized for are valid concerns, both stem from the same place and neither are totally DJ's fault. For one, he doesn't get as many assists as he probably should as the starting PG, and two, he can get careless with the ball in critical situations.

IMO both of those issues stem from the fact that he's playing out of position. He's more of a combo guard than a true PG. He's definitely not bad running the point, but I don't feel like that's his natural position. Cal seems to have recognized this as I've seen Reed running point more when both he and DJ are on the floor together.
 
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CatOfDaVille said:
DJ's fine and has been improving all year. He's an important piece to this team, and we won't make a run in March without him.

The two things I see DJ get criticized for are valid concerns, both stem from the same place and neither are totally DJ's fault. For one, he doesn't get as many assists as he probably should as the starting PG, and two, he can get careless with the ball in critical situations.

IMO both of those issues stem from the fact that he's playing out of position. He's more of a combo guard than a true PG. He's definitely not bad running the point, but I don't feel like that's his natural position. Cal seems to have recognized this as I've seen Reed running point more when both he and DJ are on the floor together.
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Agreed.

Funny thing is when I say Reed has been running more point, there are some on this board that insist Cal has just stuck Reed in the corner and left him there.....
 
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CatOfDaVille said:
DJ's fine and has been improving all year. He's an important piece to this team, and we won't make a run in March without him.

The two things I see DJ get criticized for are valid concerns, both stem from the same place and neither are totally DJ's fault. For one, he doesn't get as many assists as he probably should as the starting PG, and two, he can get careless with the ball in critical situations.

IMO both of those issues stem from the fact that he's playing out of position. He's more of a combo guard than a true PG. He's definitely not bad running the point, but I don't feel like that's his natural position. Cal seems to have recognized this as I've seen Reed running point more when both he and DJ are on the floor together.
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Assists. Let's look at those. For instance, last game, he had 4 extra assist situations and UK got fouled on 2 of them. Iirc UK scored 4 points off the free throws. 2 of 3 from Reed and I cannot remember who else was fouled and made both free throws. The other 2 possessions were missed shots. Those were to Bradshaw and Edwards, again, iirc the actual player.


Someone was making reference that the ball stopped when DJ was running the point. True. There were other possessions where Reed and Dillingham were also stopping the ball. Why, is the question though. Well, it was because UK was setting up a play because the defense was back.

There were other times where Reed/Dilly/Shep were trying to break down their man and the ball didn't get moved around as well as it has at times. It's going to happen over a 40 minute game. You aren't going to beat the other team down the court every time.
 
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BBNinSC said:
Wagner is the most important player on this team.
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I believe he is important, but I think Reeves is the most important. Amazing what he is doing this year from a scoring perspective. Dropped 27 the other night and it doesn’t seem even seem like he did much. We are taking what he is doing this year for granted. Having an SEC player of the year type season.
 
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The team needed a Guard that can get to the rim, and Wagner is really good at that even as a freshman. And Wagner’s 3-pt. shooting is ok too, and looks to be getting even better. There may or may not have been a better option in the transfer portal, but personally I’m well satisfied with Wagner’s play at PG.
 
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Personally if I was a UK player I would stay off these boards with a few caveats.
-negative information fuels you
-your a senior and you understand we are just emotional fans that love our program
-you just went off and want to stroke your ego for a day

People will say it comes with the territory and that is true, so either be tough enough to read it or stay far away and focus on your game and getting better.
 
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crawfords corner said:
Assists. Let's look at those. For instance, last game, he had 4 extra assist situations and UK got fouled on 2 of them. Iirc UK scored 4 points off the free throws. 2 of 3 from Reed and I cannot remember who else was fouled and made both free throws. The other 2 possessions were missed shots. Those were to Bradshaw and Edwards, again, iirc the actual player.


Someone was making reference that the ball stopped when DJ was running the point. True. There were other possessions where Reed and Dillingham were also stopping the ball. Why, is the question though. Well, it was because UK was setting up a play because the defense was back.

There were other times where Reed/Dilly/Shep were trying to break down their man and the ball didn't get moved around as well as it has at times. It's going to happen over a 40 minute game. You aren't going to beat the other team down the court every time.
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The whole ball stop is because Wagner holds the ball waiting for a screen at the top a lot and is generally head down to the basket then he drives. Rob & Reed are more likely to pass when they’re driving than he is. That’s just Wagner’s game and I don’t think it’s a bad thing. The more he grows, he’s learning when and when not to be agressive on the drive. He shoots it better than most expected and is a good defender. We need him playing at a high level. I do like him better at the 2 as a combo guard and think that sets him up to be more successful.
 
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Blue_2_the_bone said:
The whole ball stop is because Wagner holds the ball waiting for a screen at the top a lot and is generally head down to the basket then he drives. Rob & Reed are more likely to pass when they’re driving than he is. That’s just Wagner’s game and I don’t think it’s a bad thing. The more he grows, he’s learning when and when not to be agressive on the drive. He shoots it better than most expected and is a good defender. We need him playing at a high level. I do like him better at the 2 as a combo guard and think that sets him up to be more successful.
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What you said is true about the screen, but it's not exclusive to him. You can watch any game that BWO posts a replay for. This argument where someone is trying to make it seem like the ball only stops for DJ is simply just not true. It's not my opinion. It's easily reviewable if anyone is willing to rewatch games.
 
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crawfords corner said:
What you said is true about the screen, but it's not exclusive to him. You can watch any game that BWO posts a replay for. This argument where someone is trying to make it seem like the ball only stops for DJ is simply just not true. It's not my opinion. It's easily reviewable if anyone is willing to rewatch games.
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I agree with you. It just seems more like him because he’s our best option of getting towards the rim. So it happens with him more.
 
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Wagner is having a very good freshman season.....It's just not the season many fans expected. A lot of analysts were saying last year that he wasn't the elite player he was made out to be. Nothing wrong with that. Just wish he would stay longer but we all know that isn't happening.
 
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A poster on another site brought up an interesting question. How much is Wagner’s game being affected by being “chained to Edwards “ ? (His words not mine) . But is it a thing ? Reed and Dilly seem to feed off each other. Do Wagner and Edwards help each other’s game ? Would Wagner have better numbers if he played the majority of his minutes with Reed or Dilly ? Interesting questions I thought.
 
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crawfords corner said:
Assists. Let's look at those. For instance, last game, he had 4 extra assist situations and UK got fouled on 2 of them. Iirc UK scored 4 points off the free throws. 2 of 3 from Reed and I cannot remember who else was fouled and made both free throws. The other 2 possessions were missed shots. Those were to Bradshaw and Edwards, again, iirc the actual player.
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That's valid. Also a factor that you alluded to and the poster above mentioned is being on the floor for most of Edwards' mins. It's hard to get assists when one of the guys you're passing to can't make shots.
 
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We've been really down for a while now. Missing the tournament in 21, 1st round loss to St. Peter's in 22, 2nd round loss to KSU in 23. People got fed up with Calipari. And some of them aren't ever getting back on that wagon.

DJ Wagner was committed to Calipari in the womb. That kid grew up wanting to play for Calipari. He's gotten all this hype. He's Cal's guy.

Some people view DJ as the representation for everything that is wrong with the program. They think Calipari decided on his favorites and they never have to earn minutes. And the great players wasting away on the bench never get a fair shake.

Even if you say "But that's true!!!" DJ has clearly earned his minutes. DJ has been a good player for us. He's our best player at getting to the rim. He's not an example of Calipari giving a bad player minutes just because they had 5 stars next to their name.
 
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Of our guards, in my opinion DJ is the best driver on the team. Dillingham is the most shifty, best at getting his own shot. Reed has the best all- round game and best passer. Antonio our best all-around scorer. And each one is vital to #9. They're all really good and leave it at that.
 
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CatOfDaVille said:
MO both of those issues stem from the fact that he's playing out of position. He's more of a combo guard than a true PG. He's definitely not bad running the point, but I don't feel like that's his natural position. Cal seems to have recognized this as I've seen Reed running point more when both he and DJ are on the floor together.
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You are right about this. Reed has gotten 63% of the PG minutes over the last 5 games with only 24% going to DJ.
 
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Deli owl said:
Simple answer. Expectations. You exceed, live up to, or don’t live up to. Goes with every athlete out there when they get on campus, as long as the fan base cares about the sport.
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Unfortunately your correct, those recliner coaches expectations are mostly unattainable. Odd that no one notices or post about Wagners ability to penatrate drawing the defense, then passes out, he's covered but the next pass he's open and scores. Wagner doesn't get credit for a assist but he created it by his penatration. That's why it's a team game but average fans just can't see it. Tough as guards are what's needed in the NCAA tourney. I for one are glad we have a dog at PG we can count on when the going gets rough he'll be there getting rough right back.
 
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thedahc said:
A thread just popped up from November that has become and remains a DJ Wagner bashing thread. I don't get it.

I feel like DJ is getting similar treatment on this board to what some fans gave Reeves last year and for a similar reason.

They are clearly different players with vastly different skill sets but last year Reeves was disrepected constantly by some on this board and some unbelievably continue to discount what Reeves did last year and does to this day.

Here is why I think it is similar:
Some on this board saw Reeves as standing in the way of CJ Fredrick and his playing time. Outsider over a Kentucky kid.
I think some on this board see DJ as standing in the way of Reed. Outsider over Kentucky kid.

In my opinion if this is the case both are silly. First of all Reeves is and was light years better than CJ ever was or will be.
Second, Reed and DJ co-exist and do so nicely on the court and Reed continues to get starter minutes (currently 4th on the team and 2nd most for a freshman on the team)

I do not get the DJ slander at all. DJ is a big part of this teams success and has made some big buckets for this team. Also we saw what it looked like without him. He has missed one game. Anyone remember how that went?
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One thing that you have to realize is that some of us weren’t born in the state of Kentucky and don’t give a shit if kids that played high school ball there get run at UK.

And plenty of people who are from Kentucky just went to see the players who give us the best chance to win on the court. They don’t care about race or where a guy is from. To continue to make it about these things actually suggests that you’ve got some issues when it comes to stereotyping others.
 
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Cobb4uk said:
Unfortunately your correct, those recliner coaches expectations are mostly unattainable. Odd that no one notices or post about Wagners ability to penatrate drawing the defense, then passes out, he's covered but the next pass he's open and scores. Wagner doesn't get credit for an assist but he created it by his penatration. That's why it's a team game but average fans just can't see it. Tough as guards are what's needed in the NCAA tourney. I for one are glad we have a dog at PG we can count on when the going gets rough he'll be there getting rough right back.
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Wagner is the best guard we have at getting to the rim, hands down. However, where are all these passes by him off the drive, that you speak of?! This is what we call a rarity. Very rarely does DJ pass the ball out once he’s decided to drive. Like, idk if I’ve seen it even a handful of times the entire season. I, for one, wish he would do more of this passing off the drive, you speak of. JMO.
 
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thedahc said:
It does exist and is on the front page of this very message board

See here: https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/wagner-can’t-shoot.399296/unread
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He’s not referring to people criticizing Wagner and stating what’s objectively true - Wagner can’t shoot.

He’s pointing to you making it about Reeves/CJ and Wagner/Reed and their backgrounds (and perhaps ethnicities).

People who are and were critical of Reeves simply don’t like the fact that he crapped his pants against legit competition more often than not (objective reality). Everyone knew CJ was washed.

People don’t like Wagner starting and playing so many minutes and being appointed that status from the get over Reed and Dilly, because these dudes are thoroughly outplaying him.
 
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catlogic15 said:
Wagner is playing as well as anyone on the team. Gets to the rim whenever he pleases. Anyone that says otherwise has their own agenda. Small minded.
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Yep. Gets to the rim well.

But also shoots threes at 31%, misses a number of layups after getting to the rim, and gets lit up by whoever he’s guarding. As the commentator pointed out on air, he’s last on the team in terms of opponents FG%.

So he literally does one thing well - gets to the rim with either hand, but even that one thing he does well is often negated by his inability to finish.
 
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CincyUKFan said:
People don’t like Wagner starting and playing so many minutes and being appointed that status from the get over Reed and Dilly, because these dudes are thoroughly outplaying him.
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Reed gets 63% of the PG minutes and Dillingham gets the most minutes at the 2 at 42% (the rest are split between Reeves and DJ). DJ isn't leading in minutes played at any position. I feel like the minutes are kind of exactly where they should be. Maybe a few more for Dillingham here and there, but DJ's minutes aren't really a problem.
 
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For the people who are complaining about DJ...they aren't really complaining about DJ, they are complaining about Cal.

DJ is just the scape goat in this instance.

The folks who have the "easiest" time on this board are those who either directly or indirectly incessantly complain about something. They will likely be "correct" in the end because the likelihood of a FF or National Championship is so low in any season that they'll be able to say "he failed" and in the off chance we win, they'll celebrate.

Complainers always win.

Rant of the day...I digress.
 
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thedahc said:
You are largely wrong on this one.
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That other thread had no posts since November. Then Thursday it got a few replies. Some from chronic complainers. Others defending DJ.

I think you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. Have fun with it.
 
Aike said:
That other thread had no posts since November. Then Thursday it got a few replies. Some from chronic complainers. Others defending DJ.

I think you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. Have fun with it.
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I said largely
 
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