Maybe Johnson was, but Alexander wasn't overrated, shoulda been OAD, blame is on self.
Diallo has committed to KU
- Thread starter JFCats22
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Maybe Johnson was, but Alexander wasn't overrated, shoulda been OAD, blame is on self.
i think we all can agree that coaching staffs get too much credit for how their players perform--at both the college and the NBA level.
after all, how much credit should we really give Bill Self for Andrew Wiggins? And how much credit should we give Cal for Derrick Rose? there's only so much that a coach can do in six months. should we really say that a prospect's six-month stint in college was more important to his development than the thirteen to fourteen years of basketball that allowed the prospect to appear on the bluebloods' radars in the first place?
Let's not kid ourselves: a lot of these very elite guys would be #1 pick, NBA rookie of the year, all-star types even if they attended WKU.
after all, how much credit should we really give Bill Self for Andrew Wiggins? And how much credit should we give Cal for Derrick Rose? there's only so much that a coach can do in six months. should we really say that a prospect's six-month stint in college was more important to his development than the thirteen to fourteen years of basketball that allowed the prospect to appear on the bluebloods' radars in the first place?
Let's not kid ourselves: a lot of these very elite guys would be #1 pick, NBA rookie of the year, all-star types even if they attended WKU.
Kentucky has been to the final four two years in a row with a roster full of NBA players and both times failed to win it all. This is the reason kids are not picking Kentucky.
Except most UK fans wouldn't agree with this. Basically they think that Anthony Davis and MKG going 1 and 2 in the draft is a huge credit to Cal, but Wiggins going 1 and Embiid going 3 is just because they came into college as very talented players. So Alexander's stock plummets to a late first round pick/early second after one season in which he had eligibility issues? Self's fault. Dakari Johnson, #1 center of his class is set up to be a 2nd rounder after two years? Not Cal's fault. To clarify I really don't think that is Cal's fault, but Cliff's situation should not be Self's fault either.
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Came because I heard there were some funny posts, and stayed to have a respectful conversation.
Really? Then why in the world are they going to Kansas? They haven't made it to the sweet 16 since 2012.
Cocky over a recruit when we stomped your sorry rear by 35 on the floor. And your coach can't get you to the sweet 16.
Cocky over much wouldn't you say?
Just a coincidence that your visit comes a few short hours after you guys signed Diallo...amirite?
Why do you think I am cocky? I wasn't even commenting about Diallo. Am I cocky because I think it is funny that a Kentucky fan wanted to set up a fight over a message board with another UK fan? I don't think so. He asked why I was here and I told him why.
This is 100% false and anybody who knows a thing about recruiting is well aware. When Cliff was a junior people were saying that all he knew how to do was dunk and block shots and his terrible high school coach did nothing to change that. He had a huge learning curve that has been mentioned about a million times but people choose to ignore it. Meanwhile Embiid skyrocketed to the third pick but Self doesn't know how to develop bigs according to you guys. Seriously.
Well it's not really a coincidence because if Diallo didn't commit to us, then I wouldn't have heard about the hilarious posts that were a result of his decision, so no, I guess it's not. But the issue I was addressing was barely related to Diallo.
Poy was projected as a lottery pick after his freshman year. He came back and fell, which basically happens to every prospect. Other coaches figure out your tendencies and scouts find your flaws.
Goodwin was what? A top 20 pick? Pretty good for someone uncoachable.
Young was raw. We all knew that. Couldn't pass and was a poor defender. Terrence went to the d league and is now a starter for a top 5 seed in the west. Youngs time will come.
Dakari was a first round pick and decided to come back and backup the #1 pick. He's never had elite athleticism, but if Kendrick Perkins can still play in the league, there's probably a spot for Dakari. Needs to study tape of AL jefferson.
Not going to comment on Lyles. That's just dumb. He played sf in college but will be a Pf in the NBA.
The Harrisons are basically the only failures. Two kids that led their team to the final four 2 years in a row. Call me crazy, but I'd rather have them than guys like Norris Cole or Austin rivers. They can make an NBA roster.
If I had lost to a team by damn near 40 points less than 6 months ago, I doubt I would be on their board running my mouth when my coach had destroyed similarly ranked recruits at the same position (wwright, alexander, etc.)
Seriously. We beat you by 5 touchdowns. How embarrassing is it that you're here?
2013 RSCI Consensus Rankings
Kentucky
#2 Julius Randle
#5 Andrew Harrison
#6 Aaron Harrison
#9 Dakari Johnson
#9 James Young
#18 Marcus Lee
Derek Willis
Kansas
#1 Andrew Wiggins
#13 Wayne Selden
#16 Joel Embiid
#36 Brannen Greene
#40 Conner Frankamp
#89 Frank Mason
Kentucky
#2 Julius Randle
#5 Andrew Harrison
#6 Aaron Harrison
#9 Dakari Johnson
#9 James Young
#18 Marcus Lee
Derek Willis
Kansas
#1 Andrew Wiggins
#13 Wayne Selden
#16 Joel Embiid
#36 Brannen Greene
#40 Conner Frankamp
#89 Frank Mason
That doesn't even make sense. If that were the case, why in the world would you choose ku? They can't even make it to the sweet 16 here lately. I don't know why these kids aint picking Kentucky, but the reason you give is not it.
Not true on the top 5 part. Rivals had him ranked 25th, Scout 23, ESPN 6, 247 13, RSCI composite was 16th. I think Cal develops big guys better though. Kind of odd he gets pegged as a point guard only coach considering the impressive list of bigs he's coached at UK.
Took a nobody in Josh Harrellson and turned him into a great player.. Towns was a top 3 pick regardless,, but Cal pushed him into being the #1 pick.. Earlier in the year he had about a zero chance of passing Okafor.. He took Willie and turned him into a top 6 pick..
Both coaches develop big men. To say they don't is not smart. Self has like a 90% hit or something like that on big's getting a look at the NBA. That is ridiculous. Self has been an absolute machine at developing bigs. Cal has been great too. I don't understand why saying 1 coach can develop players is somehow a knock on the other coach.
I come in peace but you do realize that KU had the 1st and 3rd picks in the draft last year right...and one of them is going to be named NBA Rookie of the year tomorrow right? It isn't like all KU player's stock drops.
I know it is easy for me as a KU fan to say negative things about other schools too...but KU has as many lottery players picked in the last decade as anyone except your school.
I really like UK commits Skal and Briscoe...honestly if I was a top 10 kid I wouldn't consider any school except UK, Duke, or KU right now.
DC
Dakari Johnson and Joel Embiid were on the same high school team. Embiid switched to a different school because he knew he wasn't good enough to beat out Dakari. One season at Kansas and Embiid is a Top 3 pick. Two seasons at Kentucky and Dakari is going to be lucky to be picked in the first round at all. You cannot project where these kids will end up had they chose to go to school somewhere else.
Cliff didn't fail to live up to expectations because he went to Kansas. He failed because he doesn't seem to be very smart, doesn't learn quickly and struggled once he wasn't simply the biggest guy on the floor. Dakari Johnson seems to be having the same type of struggle. That is a problem that would have been a problem at any school. The problem that has kept the Harrison twins from developing into better players was also between their ears and would be a problem had they chose to go to Kansas or any other school. On the flip side, Self was able to develop Embiid quickly not because Self is some awesome coach but because Embiid is a very intelligent kid who was a quick learner and hard worker and was able to apply the good coaching that he received.
The difference in Dakari & Embiid is simply athleticism. That's why Embiid's ceiling is much higher than Dakari's & why it was also a smart move for Dakari to enter the draft this year. His stock would never get higher.
But those two had zip to do with Cal or Self....more of a God thing & the way they were created.
Yeah, no. All reports out of Kansas last year were that Embiid was very intelligent, understood what the coaches were teaching him immediately, rarely had to be taught the same thing twice and was an obsessive video watcher who was always looking to learn. He was a sponge for information and worked his tail off pestering the coaching staff and video guys for more information and instruction.
It wasn't "being more athletic". Embiid doesn't run any faster or jump any higher than Johnson.
It wasn't "being more athletic". Embiid doesn't run any faster or jump any higher than Johnson.[/QUOTE]
You can honestly say this with a straight face??? Embid is twice the athlete when compared to Dakari. There is no comparison with the two when it comes athletically.
You can honestly say this with a straight face??? Embid is twice the athlete when compared to Dakari. There is no comparison with the two when it comes athletically.
It wasn't "being more athletic". Embiid doesn't run any faster or jump any higher than Johnson 
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Nothing against Dakari, but I'm pretty sure Sam Malone ran faster and jumped higher than him.
