Clown, the fact that Kamala spoke about actual policies and her intent as President whereas Trump's biggest policy comment of the night is "I have a concept of a plan" is what will likely persuade independents if they are truly on the fence about who to vote for. I don't, for a single second, believe there are actually people two months out from an election that could look at either candidate at this point and say "maybe?".
Trump has flipped the table so hard on what we expect from actual debates anymore that it's hard to say that anyone garnered anything from last night. You could make the argument that Kamala seemed calm and was definitely playing up a "prosecutorial" persona to get Trump off of his game but you could also easily argue that Trump was just playing to his base and they were likely eating it up.
Both candidates likely have about 25% of the vote locked up through party (or in Trump's case, Trump loyalty) alone. The question becomes less so about what age demographics get out (which was so prevalent during the Obama years) and moreso about how shifting population changes in the purple states continue to affect the electoral college. Florida appears to be getting redder and redder but it's at the expense of the mid and southwest. Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina (who has the worst republican gubernatorial candidate I've ever seen and may cost Trump the state), Georgia and Arizona are basically going to decide the election again.
Meh, "crushed" is a little hyperbolic LOL
But you're right. In order to make a difference, she needed to make him have a Colonel Jessup meltdown, and that didn't happen. She is pretty far behind right now, and this isn't going to move the needle. It might a little but not enough.
The "Haitians eating our pets" will go down as a Col Jessup moment. It is offensive and ridiculous on so many levels. The whole point of that line of attack is to appeal to white people who are afraid of black people and immigrants. I can't believe a presidential candidate would personally make those attacks (instead of through a surrogate) in a debate.Meh, "crushed" is a little hyperbolic LOL
But you're right. In order to make a difference, she needed to make him have a Colonel Jessup meltdown, and that didn't happen. She is pretty far behind right now, and this isn't going to move the needle. It might a little but not enough.
The "Haitians eating our pets" will go down as a Col Jessup moment. It is offensive and ridiculous on so many levels. The whole point of that line of attack is to appeal to white people who are afraid of black people and immigrants. I can't believe a presidential candidate would personally make those attacks (instead of through a surrogate) in a debate.
Well, I guess if completing a sentence is the bar, then I agree. Kamala killed it. If the bar is outlining a platform and expanding on what her policies would be then, I guess I just wasn't paying attention. You clearly gleaned more from the debate than I did. Maybe you can illuminate me on those things, because all I have to go on so far are the last 3 years, and I'm not really impressed.
Do me a favor, and help an old, and inattentive man out, so that I can make an informed vote.
What were her policies, except for the child tax credit? The rest were conclusions, not polices. She is going to fix the exorbitant cost of housing? Okay, but that is not a plan, that is a goal. Where was the plan? And, why should we have to wait, considering she is in office right now. She is going to fix the border problem they created? Great, but again, that is not a plan, but an aspiration that as the Border Czar she could have implemented at any time over the past 3+ years.
The only other actual plan I remember is that she is going to re-federalize abortion by codifying Roe v. Wade. If you think that is going to happen, take a seat, because standing is not permitting the blood to get to your brain.
I generally agree with this view. I think what last night probably reminded a lot of people of is the chaos that Trump brought to virtually every day in office. Crazy press conferences and angry tirades that cause dissension and drama. So, when Harris talks about "change" my guess is it resonates with some people as a way to move on from that.
Yeah, about 538, LOL They removed Rasmussen and continue to use Bloomberg, so... I wouldn't go by that.
RCP (which includes ALL polls) has her up by 1, which if you know anything about Presidential elections, is not CLOSE to enough for a Democrat. I can expand on why that is if you want me to. You can believe me or not, that's fine, but even her campaign admits that she's got a TON of ground to make up.
Meh, "crushed" is a little hyperbolic LOL
But you're right. In order to make a difference, she needed to make him have a Colonel Jessup meltdown, and that didn't happen. She is pretty far behind right now, and this isn't going to move the needle. It might a little but not enough.
Talk about nutso ^World War III! Nuclear holocaust! Sex change surgeries to illegal immigrants! They're murdering children after they've been born! Hordes of murdering immigrants are eating our pet dogs and cats! The Central Park 5 maybe still did it, no regrets for wanting them executed! In fact, no regrets at all! Biden and Harris caused all that global inflation, not, you know, that whole worldwide pandemic and Russia's invasion of Ukraine! Fear! Scary foreigners! Huge tariffs won't raise the prices of consumer goods for the average American, not at all! It's the end of America if I don't win!
GD, what a nutso, weird old man. I just thank god everyday the old white men on here have this safe space message board to shield ourselves from the evil, lying liBeRal meDIa.
Blaming Trump for the divisiveness is stupid.
For example, it’s 100% crystal clear where the candidates stand on abortion. Trump wants it left at the states. Kamala wants federal control with expanded abortion.
It’s one of the most divisive issues in the country, and ABC chose to focus on it. Even though there’s absolutely nothing to debate at this point. If you’re voting based on abortion policy, you know who you’re voting for. Not saying either side is right or wrong, just that we knew exactly what their positions were going into last night and there was no reason to spend one second of time on it.
Yeah the decisiveness may be more subtle, but it’s stupid to blame Trump. For many other reasons too.
Shit, good point. Let me put up my "Obama's a filthy illegal and Michelle has a dick" poster from the Romney election committee.
Trump’s face is an SNL skit in itself during the debates. SNL cannot top that. Only Phil Hartman could top Trump’s look. But, he sat there quietly. She is the one who looked unhinged during her opponent’s comments. He even had to remind her to keep quiet even though her mic was supposedly turned off.
What people are calling a Trump meltdown was just Trump.
BTW, he missed a lot of opportunities, but one would have been to invite everyone to a Trump rally when she told people to go. He should have said he agreed with her on that, but that they would have to stand in line, because arenas and venues to too small to fit everyone. All she could say was some people leave. Because, she knows he packs them in.
The huge age difference probably had something to do with that. Every person slows down over time. I'm 61 and I can tell a difference in the last 10 years.Non-partisan take:
I can't ever recall seeing two blowout debates in the same election year. I know there's been some years where one candidate won the first debate and the other candidate came back and won the next debate (Obama immediately comes to mind) but not both of them being landslides. And we have an unusual case here with a "relief pitcher" on the DEM side, but it was crazy to watch how well Trump did in the first one against Biden (when he mostly shut the hell up and let his opponent make unforced errors) and this one where he was hit with a master class in psychological warfare and went full-unhinged mode. Woodshed.
At the end of the day, I doubt it changed many voters' minds. #USA
Are those stored next to your “Trump is Hitler,” “Trump is a Russian asset,” “Trump had Russian hookers pee on him,” etc. posters?
Again, stupid if you think one side is solely to blame for the divisiveness.
Keep in mind, there's two minutes to respond to a question and the guy next to you is trying to say the craziest things in the world to get you to respond to him rather than discuss policy. She has stated (to my knowledge) that investment firms buying up the majority of houses during the recession and historically low interest rates drove up the cost of housing. You can pass laws to limit the first but there isn't much you can do (as President) with interest rates. Hopefully the Fed can get this sorted, but the whole world appears to be guessing at this point because these problems aren't uniquely American.
As for the border, you may want to consult with Trump on that as well. He's stated in the past that he easily could have closed the border but didn't (until the pandemic that is) because he was more hellbent on building an expensive, and ineffective, wall. Why? Because people don't get hyped up for policy, they get hyped for catch phrases.
Again, she at least tried to talk about some policy ideals. The policy talking point form Trump was his woeful repeal and replace response. Again, that isn't Trump's fault, he doesn't pass laws, the Republicans have yet to posit an actual healthcare bill worth a damn since Obamacare.
Are those stored next to your “Trump is Hitler,” “Trump is a Russian asset,” “Trump had Russian hookers pee on him,” etc. posters?
Again, stupid if you think one side is solely to blame for the divisiveness.
Question for the Kamala supporters in here
Do you think the moderators were objective or do you think they went to bat for her?
He seemed totally unprepared and unable to string together a narrative about why he is right on his best issues (immigration, inflation). Instead, he just repeated the same hyperbole over and over again.I don't think Trump prepared very well for this debate. Don't know if it's his fault, his handlers or whatever. If he sticks to the main issues the country really cares about like cost of living, protecting our borders, making our cities safer, etc. he should wipe the stage with Harris. She's got nothing to counter that.
As a friend of mine has said about Trump, I don't always like the way he swings the club but I like where the ball lands.
There isn't a side. Republicans are grifting off of Trump's populism and will dump him in a heartbeat if they get the chance. He's resilient and seemingly incapable of error, so they deal with him. Read where I said TDS cuts both ways above, divisiveness does that.
Republicans and Democrats profit off of his divisiveness so they play into it. I also blame Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton for the start of modern media politics as well.
Trump is just that on nitro.
Even when you want him to take advantage of an opportunity it's to boast about crowd sizes as if that's going to move the needle on policy.
Perhaps you were kidding though...
If you watched, you realize how long 2 minutes is. Wow! She had plenty of time to lay it out. I missed her investment firm solution. Would love to see that clip.
As to the border, Trump respected the sovereign lines of our country. Maybe YOU don’t build a wall. But, you protect the border and the rule of law. Harris did not and we paid, big time. She made her rounds to various countries, but did next to nothing at the point of attack. They let the problem get so out of control, they can only claim now that there is no real going back, but to make illegal immigration legal.
And, for those saying violence has not resulted, tell that to the hundreds of thousands of families who lost loved ones to fentanyl crossing the border. They may ask you to redefine “violence.”
As to healthcare, Trump’s answer was horrific, but not wrong. The last four years have been such a shit show that Obamacare is not a high priority. The world is a tinderbox, inflation has driven people deep into debt and is causing real struggle for people, and our border is a sieve. As I have mentioned, if you drive a beater, but you need a better job for food and security and a future, you don’t think about replacing the beater until you fix the more pressing problem.
Does a Trump hater count? It's always hard to tell when Trump is debating if they are being fair or not because the moment a moderator interjects about anything it's immediately met with "fake news" or "that's not what I'm hearing". So, when one person is talking about taxes and the other person is talking about culture wars that don't even reflect the question asked, it's hard to say whether they should or should not interject.
The subject matter was pretty even as they did discuss immigration (a Harris weak point) and abortion (a Trump weak point) but they did tend to give more time to Harris' better subjects. That being said, Trump got the majority of mic time and, in spite of rules to limit interruptions, was allow to edge in whenever he wanted to.
Tough to say if anyone will see it one way or another with the biases we have now.
There will be razor thin margins in the 5 battleground state's.Two thoughts on this:
1.) My comment was directly aimed at you posting "she's pretty far behind", which she is not. You can argue polls all you want to, I'm not beholden to 538, it's just an aggregate of a ton of polls that skew every direction. Fox news has Trump up 1 point with 3% variance. There isn't a single poll showing her pretty far behind.
2.) See my earlier point about this election being different than previous elections. They aren't trying to win the youth, minorities or single college educated white women. They're trying to win Arizona, Ohio, Penn, Georgia, NC and possibly the midwest wall (Wisconsin, Michigan, etc.). A national poll doesn't mean jack when 45 states are already decided.
It's going to be tight. If he loses, everyone cheated (another horrendous character flaw) and if he wins, he will still allege she cheated and will threaten to lock everyone up.
There, I spoiled the ending.
I'm not following how doing nothing about illegal immigration other than trying to force a border wall is "respecting our sovereign lines". No one wants to do anything about illegal immigration to our country. It's a political football that has been used for years to try to get people hyped up about non-existent problems (they're taking our jobs!). Farming, construction and a myriad of non-skilled physical labor in the US depends on illegal immigration. I hate it because it puts those people in impossible situations but still betters their families lives back home. We have to find a better solution to both problems (temp visas, etc.)
If Trump wanted the border closed, he had 3 years to do it and did nothing. That's not me saying that, that's Chip Roy (R. TX). Illegal immigration has skyrocketed under this administration and they don't seem any more keen on doing anything about it than Trump did.
Neither of them discussed adding more funding for border agencies, training for existing agents and actual effective check points along our border, because neither of them really care about that "problem".
Healthcare is absolutely a huge issue in this country. I'm one cancer diagnosis from bankruptcy and have excellent healthcare and good savings in place. That should not happen anywhere. Half of this country is ravaged by mental illness that goes unchecked and we are seeing the results daily. I'd be open to a Republican solution as Obamacare is an imperfect solution, but have yet to see an actual proposal. He's had 8 years to come up with an answer and is still in the conception phase.
She hasn't moved to the center. She keeps saying her values haven't changed. All that's changed is her rhetoric temporarily moderating till the election is over. Even Bernie Sanders stated he's fine with her rhetoric to get elected because he knows her true stands. It's all a charade.I caught it on radio so I didn't get a chance to see how it presented visually, but after the first 10 minutes or so Trump just started becoming increasingly more unhinged. The rants about the all how the dirty, murdering illegals are eating all our dogs and cats was just embarrassing and sad. Just racial, fear-driving, nutso weirdo shit. Harris is not a perfect candidate (as a dum-dum liberal, I'm actually a little disappointed by how much more to the center she's moved even though it's expected... a lot of her current talking points sound like a Republican from 20 years ago), but I was glad to see (er, hear) how well she did and how poorly Trump came off.
There will be razor thin margins in the 5 battleground state's.
A very few(relative) people are going to decide the election.
I'm not following how doing nothing about illegal immigration other than trying to force a border wall is "respecting our sovereign lines". No one wants to do anything about illegal immigration to our country. It's a political football that has been used for years to try to get people hyped up about non-existent problems (they're taking our jobs!). Farming, construction and a myriad of non-skilled physical labor in the US depends on illegal immigration. I hate it because it puts those people in impossible situations but still betters their families lives back home. We have to find a better solution to both problems (temp visas, etc.)
If Trump wanted the border closed, he had 3 years to do it and did nothing. That's not me saying that, that's Chip Roy (R. TX). Illegal immigration has skyrocketed under this administration and they don't seem any more keen on doing anything about it than Trump did.
Neither of them discussed adding more funding for border agencies, training for existing agents and actual effective check points along our border, because neither of them really care about that "problem".
Healthcare is absolutely a huge issue in this country. I'm one cancer diagnosis from bankruptcy and have excellent healthcare and good savings in place. That should not happen anywhere. Half of this country is ravaged by mental illness that goes unchecked and we are seeing the results daily. I'd be open to a Republican solution as Obamacare is an imperfect solution, but have yet to see an actual proposal. He's had 8 years to come up with an answer and is still in the conception phase.
She doesn't know what her policies are. The party elites will tell her what to do & she will. Just a puppet.Blowout and destroyed are a little harsh but she certainly won whatever that is called. Can it be a debate if neither side delve into policy issues?
The problem for Harris tonight is that we know exactly who Trump is and most of what he is planning on doing. People don't know the first thing about her policies(and probably never will before the election) and specifics within.
GA, NC, PA - I don't care what the polls you're seeing online say, the fundamentals in those three states massively favor Trump in this election. And those are the only three he needs.There will be razor thin margins in the 5 battleground state's.
A very few(relative) people are going to decide the election.
Perfect example of what I said earlier: some care more about demeanor than policies. And she won on that - my point earlier.I was actually impressed with how well she did. I wasn’t expecting much from her. And as they say, it’s about expectations.
And I was amazed at how poorly he came off. Telling us over and over how great he is. and trying to scare folks with every boogie man he could dream up. All the while with his angry scowl.
I’m not a fan of either. And I had every intention of voting 3rd party again, for the eight time in a row. But now I may hold my nose and vote for her.
And we have way too many geese.I could use a few Haitians in my neighborhood, because the guy that lives across the street from me likes feeding stray cats, and they're f***ing EVERYWHERE now. It's worse than living next to Ryan Lemond...
Once more, demeanor is what is needed first in a president for some.His poor performance. I think a lot of people are sick of his shit and she came across as competent enough.
Fvckin ay. My parents used to live out in Mallard Point. I never saw a Mallard, but I saw plenty of Canadian Geese, and their poop was a blight. It was everywhere.And we have way too many geese.