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China's Looming Economic Crisis

Perrin75

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Aug 9, 2001
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With the Olympics winding up, it is about time for the bill for the events to come due. This usually results in the host country looking at a huge mountain of new debt. The Olympics actually triggered an economic crisis in Greece and Brazil this century. Considering that, I wonder if it will be the final tipping point to send China down their inevitable debt spiral.

For those who don't know, China is looking at a massive housing bubble that is much bigger than the one in 2008. 70-80% of Chinese wealth is tied up in housing, which means a crash will be catastrophic. They also have a huge energy problem that includes separate issues around cost, supply and demand.

To cap that off, Communist economies have one bad option to deal with inflation which is price control. Either they are going to raise prices which will mean Chinese workers can't afford the goods they are making, or they can cap prices which will lead to massive shortages. The Soviet Union ran into this problem in the late 60's through the 70's and they never recovered. It is the main reason the country collapsed in the 80's.

I've been following the housing issue for a while, and it is one of the craziest things I have ever seen. They are literally sitting on enough apartments to house nearly a billion people. Whole cities were built out of nothing but speculation. However, as the country modernized and developed a larger middle class, birth rates slowed and the cost of housing out-paced wages, so now there is a dual problem of housing being unaffordable and there is too much inventory. The country is sitting on entire ghost towns that were recently built, incredibly modern and no one living there. Most likely, no one ever will.

For those who are interested in looking into this, the poster child is a company called Evergrande. Largest Real Estate company in the world that is sitting on a crazy amount of debt. When they fall a ton of other companies and banks are going to go with them. China is currently forcing other companies to buy up Evergrande's bad debt, but that is just spreading the problem and making more companies vulnerable.

I am just curious what anyone might think this will mean for the US. Will this be an opportunity for the US to remove China as their main rival and shift manufacturing back to the US or to some other more US friendly nation, or are we in too deep and when China falls it is going to wreck us as well.

For those who are interested, here is a brief overview of the Real Estate problem.
 
Thats a good cliff note on the situation. I am interested in seeing how this plays out. Evergrande has been in the news for the past year about being able to make the payment needed. There is no way they can continue on like they are.

I think it will definitely have an impact here. The amount of mortgage debt the Chinese has taken on here (especially on the West Coast) is insane. What happens when their economy collapses? Default on loans here is my guess.

Cash is still king and there could be some unbelievable opportunities down the road if you are patient...housing and/or stocks.
 
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It's a good thing we're following their lead as it's going to work out so well for them like it has in literally every other socialist/communist country.
 
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It's not going to be good for the US either, as each nation outside of a few rogue states like NK are fully intertwined in the world economy.

China will quit buying US debt, cost of manufacturing will increase, and war will be more enticing to the CCP as a diversion from their domestic situation.
 
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Imo noone should trust any info whatsoever that solely comes from China. Maybe it isn't going as well for them as they portray but no way they're dead broke.
 
Well that’s interesting had no idea about any of it. I also have no clue what it will do to the US, however I would wager some bad things and also some good things! I do think more manufacturing will be coming back here no matter what (new intel and ford plants being great examples) due to the realization that relying on China for most of our manufacturing is not a great idea and this whole pandemic made people realize it.
 
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Hope it happens. I've got bad feeling about the next 10-20 years for the US, so if China has to eat shit, especially for COVID.. oh well.
 
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The best thing for America and our western Allie is for China to face economic struggles. They have been waging an economic war with us for a number of years. We will feel
Impacts, no doubt, but in the end it’s gotta be a net positive to bolster our advantage as a capitalist/democratic society.
 
Not a fan of our capitulation to China that started under Nixon. Even he admitted, “I think we’ve created a Frankenstein,” when he spoke of China. Every other President has kissed their asses, except for Trump and Biden. Be interesting to see what happens, going forward. Might have WWIII on our hands, so who knows?
 
China has a similar issue that we had in 2008 with our housing crisis. Too many homes and too little buyers. Big difference with us is the Chinese govt says they're not going to bail out corporations bc that's too capitalism. I doubt they won't considering the largest portion of China's domestic economy is their Real Estate. It's a bubble that will pop eventually. The global economy will feel a major impact on the bubble popping and we will probably feel it here too.

However, it could cause foreign business to take their investments elsewhere as China could have their credit downgraded (Doubtful). China is also accumulating a large amount of debt similar to the United States. They're feeling the blows of the 1 child policy they implemented years ago with their declining population, hence why they now allow 2 children.

I personally wouldn't advise anyone to root for it as the global economy is so much more connected now than the fall of the Soviet Union and with China being the 2nd largest economy and one of the largest with exports and imports it will impact all of us.

A Chinese economic collapse will send waves throughout global markets and probably cause a global recession similar to 2008. I wouldn't assume it's coming because I believe the Chinese govt will eventually bail out Evergrande once worst comes to worst and try to pretend they didn't do it bc "Capitalism bad"

I would love for their economy to collapse and cause no issues anywhere but unfortunately I don't see how that happens. Also, they are shutting down parts of their country fully. Not like in America when we say shutdown, I mean like literally forcing citizens into their homes and they will be arrested if they try to leave. Which is hurting their economic growth even more.

Capitalism isn't perfect, it has its flaws. But it's the best economic system we got. The USSR proved it and now China continues to prove it.
 
China is an interesting case. I don't really know if you could truly call their economic system communist anymore. I don't even know if there is a real answer for what they have become. Maybe something like Proto-fascist. In a Communist economy everything is owned by the state and they control it from a top down model. In a Fascist system, the Government partners with, and protects, Corporate power because it is the greatest tool to help build and glorify the nation. Corporations are separate entities that are allowed, and even encouraged, to thrive.

So, think of the USSR and Germany in the 30's and 40's. Name a single Russian company. Now, have you ever heard of companies like Krupp, Volkswagen, Bayer and Siemens? They thrived under fascism and quickly became some of the biggest companies in the world.

China certainly looks more like that now. I can't see a company the size of Foxconn or Alibaba allowing for price controls and shortages given the insane amount of foreign investment they have. But China is leveraged to the hilt and feeling the crunch of the economic issues involving the pandemic. They already have serious civil unrest there. People are basically living off of $2 a day. Not a lot of wiggle room if prices start increasing.
 
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I can't see a company the size of Foxconn or Alibaba allowing for price controls and shortages

Allow? They get zero say in anything. The CCP controls everything. Anyone flourishing does so at the will of the CCP and that same will can be turned.

From what I recall, several months ago jack ma disappeared after saying something negative about xi. Of course we're all told he's ok he's just out of public view - whatever that means
 
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. In a Fascist system, the Government partners with, and protects, Corporate power because it is the greatest tool to help build and glorify the nation. Corporations are separate entities that are allowed, and even encouraged, to thrive.

You don't say?

iu
 
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