Cal's fault we might lose the all-time wins lead??

[Kampus Korner]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/kans...g-over-college-basketballs-all-time-wins-leadstory

This from USA Today story last month on the battle between Kansas and UK for the all time wins lead:

“After taking a 50-win lead in 2005, Kentucky saw the Jayhawks dig out of the deficit with a few 30-win seasons. From 2005-09, KU gained 37 wins on Kentucky, highlighted by a 2007-08 season in which the Jayhawks earned 19 more victories than the Wildcats en route to a national title.”

 

[ManitouDan]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/kans...g-over-college-basketballs-all-time-wins-leadstory

This from USA Today story last month on the battle between Kansas and UK for the all time wins lead:

“After taking a 50-win lead in 2005, Kentucky saw the Jayhawks dig out of the deficit with a few 30-win seasons. From 2005-09, KU gained 37 wins on Kentucky, highlighted by a 2007-08 season in which the Jayhawks earned 19 more victories than the Wildcats en route to a national title.”

I looked back on that season .. Good Lord , lost to San Diego , UAB , by 40 at Vandy , 20 to IU . Garder Webb . Houston .. Awful . Just awful.

 

[Disappointed Cat]

Yet 8 months later we are back in discussion for a title contender.

Stop living in the past. Yes, Cal had a great run until the Wisconsin loss. Since then we can't seem to beat anyone consistently except JV teams. The past 7 years we have had a LOSING record against ranked teams despite top ranked recruiting classes and a $10 million dollar coach. UK is now a poorly run NBA farm team instead of a college basketball powerhouse. Unfortunately, not much is going to change with Cal driving the bus armed with a lifetime contract and focused on draft picks instead of championships.

 

[cats#1again]

there are many, many fans that believe staying on top of all time wins matters as well.

UK does (or did) as well

So if we lose it by a game do you think we can't get it back?
I don't see the fascination with it honestly

 

[turkeywildturkey]

You’re an idiot. You can’t fix stupid, and you’re obviously stupid.

 

[JPScott]

I can remember when UK was third behind Kansas and North Carolina. This was about 35 years ago or so As I recall. Perhaps some enterprising researcher can enlighten me.

Kentucky has never been behind both Kansas and North Carolina at the same time, except possibly ~1950 briefly.

Below is a progression showing the all-time wins leader in college basketball from 1895 to 2020.

All-Time Wins Leaders over the Decades

 

[RingoLucky]

Kansas won tonight. A win Saturday gets them only one game behind…..

 

[TankedCat]

So if we lose it by a game do you think we can't get it back?
I don't see the fascination with it honestly

just one more source of pride that fans will decide is meaningless in support of Cal's current trajectory.

 

[cats#1again]

just one more source of pride that fans will decide is meaningless in support of Cal's current trajectory.

That has nothing to do with cal.
We've been at the top.... Ok ... It's not like we've been on a different level as these schools. Speaking of cal... If he hadn't came we would have lost it probably in 2010/2011. No coach comes in to a dump and wins automatically like he did..

 

[TankedCat]

That has nothing to do with cal.
We've been at the top.... Ok ... It's not like we've been on a different level as these schools. Speaking of cal... If he hadn't came we would have lost it probably in 2010/2011. No coach comes in to a dump and wins automatically like he did.

nothing to do with Cal and then you talk about how it has to do with Cal.

your point is valid though

but by extension his job is to ,at a minimum ,maintain or extend that lead.

He has not so the work he did at the start is now becoming irrelevant as each season of "you can't steal my joy" passes.

 

[JPScott]

Kansas won tonight. A win Saturday gets them only one game behind…..

Keep in mind that back in December Kansas had a game cancelled vs. Colorado (on December 21st). Looking at Colorado's schedule they had four games they couldn't play at the time, three of them (two games vs. Oregon and one game vs. Oregon State) are labelled as "postponed" and are being made up while the Kansas game is listed as "cancelled" so not clear if there's any plans to ever make it up?

Kansas played on Monday and won't play again until UK on Saturday so they potentially have time to add in another game prior to their matchup vs. the Wildcats if they really wanted to. Luckily is appears Colorado is busy as they have a game tonight (make-up game at Oregon), then they play at Washington on Thursday.

Colorado Schedule

Has anyone heard if Kansas plans to make up for their cancelled game, perhaps by scheduling someone else?

Here's what the current race looks like:

Without the cancellation between Kansas and Colorado back in December, Kentucky would need to win on Wednesday vs. Mississippi State to assure they were still ahead even if they lost to Kansas on Saturday. As it stands, they're already two games up so they will remain ahead regardless.

 

[Kampus Korner]

Thanks JP for the intel and clarification. It appears Kansas has always been in the top 4 since 1915 with Kansas and North Carolina both, at different times being the all time wins leader but as you say UK has never been behind both at the same time.

Kentucky has never been behind both Kansas and North Carolina at the same time, except possibly ~1950 briefly.

Below is a progression showing the all-time wins leader in college basketball from 1895 to 2020.

All-Time Wins Leaders over the Decades

 

[thedahc]

ok, what point are you trying to make? Please do not try to explain stats to me. I have a masters in actuarial accounting and have been a licensed actuary for 19 years.

Wowwee an actual actuary! Well debate over folks.

I would question you if it was only 18 years.... But 19! That settles it. The actuary has spoken.

 

[Kats meow]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/kans...g-over-college-basketballs-all-time-wins-leadstory

This from USA Today story last month on the battle between Kansas and UK for the all time wins lead:

“After taking a 50-win lead in 2005, Kentucky saw the Jayhawks dig out of the deficit with a few 30-win seasons. From 2005-09, KU gained 37 wins on Kentucky, highlighted by a 2007-08 season in which the Jayhawks earned 19 more victories than the Wildcats en route to a national title.”

Can’t we do a little digging and find some more old wins against Hanes Hosiery and Durham YMCA before Saturday?

 

[Tubbyfan78]

Wowwee an actual actuary! Well debate over folks.

I would question you if it was only 18 years.... But 19! That settles it. The actuary has spoken.

I love it when people have nothing to say but still feel like they need to say it.

 

[LowCountryCat]

I believe we've won like 76% of our games.

I believe KU has won something like 72% of their games.

I'll take 76% over 72% any day of the week.

Pretty smart to schedule all those Sisters of the Blind games, eh?

 

[Blueaz]

revisionist history in defense of Cal

It would only matter if they played a significant number of games since he became coach

I'm completely lost on anyone trying to marginalize another program passing us in all time wins. Even Cal was promoting UK2K. It was important enough to celebrate when he first got here

not when YOU just said the SEC was down for years, before Cal

you can't have it both ways. I agree he has sucked for the last 2 years, there is no other defense needed

 

[The_Answer1313]

Pretty smart to schedule all those Sisters of the Blind games, eh?

lol but KU and nearly everyone else also play Sisters of the Blind.

 

[gwjenning]

If you are the head coach when you lose the all time lead.
It is 100% your fault!!

 

[The_Answer1313]

not when YOU just said the SEC was down for years, before Cal

you can't have it both ways. I agree he has sucked for the last 2 years, there is no other defense needed

Basically just the last 1 year lol.

9-16 was terrible

25-6 (15-3 in the SEC) in 2020.........well who knows if we had a tournament what that would have led to.

 

[Blueaz]

In 2005, Kentucky had a solid lead in the win column with 1,900 all-time to Kansas’ 1,850. Entering 2021-22, Kentucky led 2,327-2,323.

 

[Blueaz]

AS OF JUNE 27, 2021...CAL AND UK HAD 10 LESS WINS THAN KU; during his tenure... whooopity effen dooo

 

[rabbitTown]

Self > Cal in regular season
Cal > Self in March & April

Sucks, but ill take it.

Cal is a better recruiter (or maybe it's just Cal w/ UK [he wasn't at Memphis or UMass]) and Self is a better coach. It's played out so many times... or just watch them on the sideline and during timeouts. The reason you might think Cal is greater than Self in March and April is because it takes our young guys (who are superior athletes) 3/4 of a season to get comfortable in the college game.
I have no doubt... that even as great as Cal has done at UK... Self would have been the much better hire. He wouldn't have even had to cheat. No doubt in my mind... w/ UK he could have gotten the recruits he wanted, coached them up, given us senior nights, won more games, and won more championships.

 

[TankedCat]

not when YOU just said the SEC was down for years, before Cal

you can't have it both ways. I agree he has sucked for the last 2 years, there is no other defense needed

what the SEC is or is not before Cal got here is irrelevant.

he doesn't get a pass, he went into it eyes wide open about expectations and UK's place.

 

[Rockfly78]

Did I just read that Kansas played 200 games more than Kentucky? If that’s true then forget about it. Game over, we win. We shouldn’t even be discussing this.

 

[Blueaz]

what the SEC is or is not before Cal got here is irrelevant.

he doesn't get a pass, he went into it eyes wide open about expectations and UK's place.

WHO is giving him a pass? you keep arguing with the wind...just to try and make points

 

[The_Answer1313]

Did I just read that Kansas played 200 games more than Kentucky? If that’s true then forget about it. Game over, we win. We shouldn’t even be discussing this.

Well I think we came to the conclusion it was more like 150 more but yea lol.

 

[rabbitTown]

Two things I know;
1) All-time winning percentage > all-time wins. Factually and statistically. Kansas has obviously played significantly more games than UK. All-time wins is simply a nice little anecdote, but less valuable in comparison of the two.

Definitely not.. all-time wins is a simple but extremely powerful statistic... it can be stated simply and stands on its own. It is the single team with the most victories in the history of college basketball. It is simple. It is embarrassing the fan base to now say that a percentage is better. Nobody believes this... and you can't change the 'rules' when it looks like you might be losing soon. Keep telling yourselves that, but no true UK fan believes it... and the rest of the college basketball world certainly doesn't.

 

[LowCountryCat]

WHO is giving him a pass? you keep arguing with the wind...just to try and make points

I've seen people in this board saying they don't care about the all time wins lead. But then again, those same people also say they care about the 'kids reaching their dreams' more than titles, so they probably aren't real fans either.

 

[Montana81]

Cal is a better recruiter (or maybe it's just Cal w/ UK [he wasn't at Memphis or UMass]) and Self is a better coach. It's played out so many times... or just watch them on the sideline and during timeouts. The reason you might think Cal is greater than Self in March and April is because it takes our young guys (who are superior athletes) 3/4 of a season to get comfortable in the college game.
I have no doubt... that even as great as Cal has done at UK... Self would have been the much better hire. He wouldn't have even had to cheat. No doubt in my mind... w/ UK he could have gotten the recruits he wanted, coached them up, given us senior nights, won more games, and won more championships.

I think Cal would win more games more consistently if he hadn’t insisted on building his roster around freshman every year. He hitched himself to the one and done wagon early and i think it’s actually costing him now.

I understand what he was thinking but it just hasn’t worked out the way in the long term that he thought it would

 

[The_Answer1313]

Definitely not.. all-time wins is a simple but extremely powerful statistic... it can be stated simply and stands on its own. It is the single team with the most victories in the history of college basketball. It is simple. It is embarrassing the fan base to now say that a percentage is better. Nobody believes this... and you can't change the 'rules' when it looks like you might be losing soon. Keep telling yourselves that, but no true UK fan believes it... and the rest of the college basketball world certainly doesn't.

So you don't believe that a team that has played 150 extra games doesn't have an advantage when it comes to total wins?

I mean this is just silly. Of course winning % matters more.

Total counting stats don't mean crap unless everyone has had the same amount of opportunities.

 

[Gus_Chiggins]

This might have already been mentioned, but Kansas is going to vacate wins in the near future. But with that said Cal has gotten comfortable and less motivated in the past 5 years. Happens after 12 years of marriage.

 

[Dubya C Dubya]

Did I just read that Kansas played 200 games more than Kentucky? If that’s true then forget about it. Game over, we win. We shouldn’t even be discussing this.

Yes, but by the shameless math of some, that's no excuse. They are going to fuel their hate for Calipari with the 9 and 16 season last year until the cows come home. The rest of us will continue to enjoy the ride of a lifetime that is UK basketball.

 

[Camhawk2012]

This might have already been mentioned, but Kansas is going to vacate wins in the near future. But with that said Cal has gotten comfortable and less motivated in the past 5 years. Happens after 12 years of marriage.

Will that help you sleep at night? Knowing that you kept the crown only because the NCAA invalidated a few wins that one kid who has no significant role played in.

the NCAA hasn’t vacated any wins for any other team involved in the Adidas scandal. Do you honestly believe they will start with Kansas? Lets use some logic guys

 

[Rockfly78]

Yes, but by the shameless math of some, that's no excuse. They are going to fuel their hate for Calipari with the 9 and 16 season last year until the cows come home. The rest of us will continue to enjoy the ride of a lifetime that is UK basketball.

It’s just sports. Really it is what you make it personally. If you let it ruin your day to point where you need to ruin other people’s day too, then you have a shallow life. There’s lots of bullies on here but I’ve found their skin is the thinnest.

 

[rabbitTown]

So you don't believe that a team that has played 150 extra games doesn't have an advantage when it comes to total wins?

I don't... You complicate it by factoring in another statistic. All-time Wins is just that... simple and w/o dependencies. It recognizes both wins and longevity.
It was our primary statistic put forward when we had a bigger lead (and Nattys were out of reach). All-time winning percentage is impressive, and notable, but it's not All-time Wins.
It is a bad look on our part to be moving the target now. We haven't lost it yet, and I am not sure we will!

 

[SemperFiCat]

Definitely not.. all-time wins is a simple but extremely powerful statistic... it can be stated simply and stands on its own. It is the single team with the most victories in the history of college basketball. It is simple. It is embarrassing the fan base to now say that a percentage is better. Nobody believes this... and you can't change the 'rules' when it looks like you might be losing soon. Keep telling yourselves that, but no true UK fan believes it... and the rest of the college basketball world certainly doesn't.

They've played, whatever it is, 140 games more?? No, YOU can tell YOURSELF whatever you want to make you feel better. Facts are; They've played more games, and UK has won just as many and at a higher percentage. If you don't think that's statistically and factually better, than I don't know what to tell you. You can pick whatever you think is sexier. You do you. I personally have the right to put more stock into a number that proves who the better program is historically.

 

[Disappointed Cat]

Have you talked to Mitch, about having a come to Jesus meeting with Cal?

Good observation....you are making a great case for Cal's departure....unfortunately the lifetime contract may be a little problem to overcome.

 

[SemperFiCat]

I don't... You complicate it by factoring in another statistic. All-time Wins is just that... simple and w/o dependencies. It recognizes both wins and longevity.
It was our primary statistic put forward when we had a bigger lead (and Nattys were out of reach). All-time winning percentage is impressive, and notable, but it's not All-time Wins.
It is a bad look on our part to be moving the target now. We haven't lost it yet, and I am not sure we will!

This is just deranged thinking. Big deal, Kansas might temporarily get a fluctuating benchmark, after playing in seasons worth of more games. ...even though UK has just has many, and at significantly high percentage (and more Nattys), and you're making a mountain out of a mole hill?? Non Kentucky, Kansas, or UNC fans have zero clue who has this paper title anyway. And they won't remember who the current holder is the next time Kentucky takes it back. The only people who know and care know Kentucky's higher all-time percentage holds more weight. Don't let this keep you up at night.

 

[azurricat2010]

So you don't believe that a team that has played 150 extra games doesn't have an advantage when it comes to total wins?

I mean this is just silly. Of course winning % matters more.

Total counting stats don't mean crap unless everyone has had the same amount of opportunities.

I don't... You complicate it by factoring in another statistic. All-time Wins is just that... simple and w/o dependencies. It recognizes both wins and longevity.
It was our primary statistic put forward when we had a bigger lead (and Nattys were out of reach). All-time winning percentage is impressive, and notable, but it's not All-time Wins.
It is a bad look on our part to be moving the target now. We haven't lost it yet, and I am not sure we will!

This is just deranged thinking. Big deal, Kansas might temporarily get a fluctuating benchmark, after playing in seasons worth of more games. ...even though UK has just has many, and at significantly high percentage (and more Nattys), and you're making a mountain out of a mole hill?? Non Kentucky, Kansas, or UNC fans have zero clue who has this paper title anyway. And they won't remember who the current holder is the next time Kentucky takes it back. The only people who know and care know Kentucky's higher all-time percentage holds more weight. Don't let this keep you up at night.

If KY played those additional 150 games at their 76% winning percentage they'd have an additional 114 wins to their win total, making the gap between 1 and 2 substantial.

To say total wins are more important than win percentage seems like you're missing a huge detail.