Caller Delivers Some Sobering News to Stoops

[bluecoon1]

Our fans and AD don’t just accept mediocrity. They celebrate it. Wait until we get our 6th win and see how many people are excited about being bowl eligible.

It’s absurd to me the 2 options for some UK fans are what we have now or 2 win seasons. The program looks nothing like it did in 2003. It’s completely different.

That’s not true about the fans, at least those who follow football. The administration may push the bowl streak as a selling point but most people I know aren’t happy with 6-7 wins and a mediocre bowl. I know a couple of people who think just breaking .500 is a success but they’re not the average football fan, probably don’t even care about it until it’s game day.

 

[Girthang]

Something we all need to keep in mind ... how many times have coaches been fired after losing to UK? That is how UK is viewed across the SEC. Like it or not. Hopefully that changes over a few more years of 8, 9, 10, 11 wins. But that will take time.

Exactly.

 

[CB3UK]

Yeah, I think the point is that its not really gonna' get much better than this...

Stoops has topped out,... its been 11 years!!!

So for 8million a year many of us are wondering aloud if we should take another swing with a different coach....

I'm good winning 9-10 games a year. I'm realistic about what this program can do on a year to year basis.

 

[Girthang]

what about the dumb stuff some of the players did during the game? I mean, yes you are right georgia has merit, but at the same time, we could've played a better complete game without stupid penalties and such.

Inexcusable. That's the stuff that the staff needs to figure out. Something that they are doing or allowing is causing that lack of discipline and basic respect for your opponent.

A friend of mine said this real well-

"I think it needs to be explained that there is a difference between having a killer instinct and having an attitude.

-One is about dominating them within the rules to the point they want to give up, road grading them when it's called for and stopping when the play is over.
-The other is a stubborn selfishness that gets you unnecessary penalties, off-season issues, and eventually for some gets them dismissed from the team.
-One comes from confidence.
-The other comes just from pride.
-One our HC hasnt shown he has. One he has shown he does.
-One our leading recruiter and AHC has. One he rarely lets get the better of him.

The better of those two is something that can be learned, but it's hard to get the other out of the way in crunch time. You have to set your mind to it and steel your mind against ever letting go of it. You can't second guess it in the moment.

You better know the difference between the two though, because attitude without ability can get you killed. Killer instinct however can save your life because you know when to put the foot down and the only time to let it up (when the contest is clearly over)."

 

[Girthang]

UK football can be whatever we want it to be.

In time, yes, it might be. Can't just say so or wave a magic wand and "poof" we're going undefeated.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

I'm good winning 9-10 games a year. I'm realistic about what this program can do on a year to year basis.

That's not gonna happen or realistic, winning 9 or 10 a year.

We play in the SEC.

 

[UKAlum88]

That's not gonna happen or realistic, winning 9 or 10 a year.

We play in the SEC.

Shouldn’t get top 10 money then.

 

[Girthang]

Another difficult thing for people to understand is that LSU, Georgia, Bama, etc. all won it ALL before and after great coaches came along.

LSU didn't need Saban to win a title. They did it without him afterward. Bama didn't need him to do it. They did it beforehand with other coaches. There are 10-15 schools that are consistently expected to compete for national titles. There are another 10 that are just a few playmaker away from that on a rarer basis, but get in the mix very often. There are 4-5 from each conference that have been contenders for titles in their own conference if not nationally.

UK hasn't entered those categories.

They've been contenders for the East a few times early in the season. That's it. That's a LOT OF GROUND to make up on those who've already been to Atlanta, not to mention those who are mentioned as contenders on a regular or rotating basis for the national title.

Now, this staff has done WHAT THEY'VE DONE with FAR LESS TALENT in terms of rankings and recruiting base than any other program, imo. If they put another couple 10 win seasons together over the next 2-3 years, that may get them over the hump with recruiting to a school without the football reputation.

It took Saban 3 years each to win a title at LSU and Bama. It took Kirby Smart 5-6 years at Georgia. It took Dabo Swinney 8 years to win a national title at Clemson IN THE ACC (and he hasn't won one since 2018). Tubberville was at Auburn for 10 years and won ONE SINGLE SEC title. One. At Auburn. When Bama and LSU had a few down years.

If ANYONE thinks 11-15 years is too many AT UK to build to that level, they are just not informed, realistic, or rational.

 

[UKAlum88]

Another difficult thing for people to understand is that LSU, Georgia, Bama, etc. all won it ALL before and after great coaches came along.

LSU didn't need Saban to win a title. They did it without him afterward. Bama didn't need him to do it. They did it beforehand with other coaches. There are 10-15 schools that are consistently expected to compete for national titles. There are another 10 that are just a few playmaker away from that on a rarer basis, but get in the mix very often. There are 4-5 from each conference that have been contenders for titles in their own conference if not nationally.

UK hasn't entered those categories.

They've been contenders for the East a few times early in the season. That's it. That's a LOT OF GROUND to make up on those who've already been to Atlanta, not to mention those who are mentioned as contenders on a regular or rotating basis for the national title.

Now, this staff has done WHAT THEY'VE DONE with FAR LESS TALENT in terms of rankings and recruiting base than any other program, imo. If they put another couple 10 win seasons together over the next 2-3 years, that may get them over the hump with recruiting to a school without the football reputation.

It took Saban 3 years each to win a title at LSU and Bama. It took Kirby Smart 5-6 years at Georgia. It took Dabo Swinney 8 years to win a national title at Clemson IN THE ACC (and he hasn't won one since 2018). Tubberville was at Auburn for 10 years and won ONE SINGLE SEC title. One. At Auburn. When Bama and LSU had a few down years.

If ANYONE thinks 11-15 years is too many AT UK to build to that level, they are just not informed, realistic, or rational.

Players don’t play for the university or the history of it. With the right coach, which we can afford any coaches salary, we can be contenders in the first 2-3 years. Players play for who is the coach and/or what system they run.

We literally can afford to offer any coach. We aren’t financially limited as to what we can offer.

 

[Big Cat fan]

Can we get a real football head coach? We should, if we are ever to be taken seriously and one day be good in college football we need a good recruiting and head coach.

This program never gets nothing going and it starts with the AD here. He's the worst I swear to God.

 

[Big Cat fan]

Our fans and AD don’t just accept mediocrity. They celebrate it. Wait until we get our 6th win and see how many people are excited about being bowl eligible.

It’s absurd to me the 2 options for some UK fans are what we have now or 2 win seasons. The program looks nothing like it did in 2003. It’s completely different.

It is sad

 

[Catluv]

Players don’t play for the university or the history of it. With the right coach, which we can afford any coaches salary, we can be contenders in the first 2-3 years. Players play for who is the coach and/or what system they run.

We literally can afford to offer any coach. We aren’t financially limited as to what we can offer.

You can offer any coach doesn’t mean they will come here. Do you remember UK being known as the graveyard of coaches. Not sure who you think is dying to come here. I heard Sean Payton wanted the job here not sure u would get him now.

 

[UKAlum88]

You can offer any coach doesn’t mean they will come here. Do you remember UK being known as the graveyard of coaches. Not sure who you think is dying to come here. I heard Sean Payton wanted the job here not sure u would get him now.

Money talks. A lot of coaches would come if they are offered 10mil a year. If we strike out, so what. It’s better than to settle for never expecting to be a contender.

 

[NoDef]

He's better than anyone else we've had that wins the games he is supposed to.

 

[YaketySax]

You might not pay the salary but why not get a better coach if we are paying like a top 10 program pay their coaches. Money is there, why not pursue top 10 coaches??

What better coach could we realistically get? Name names of who you think is top 10 coach and would also come. I think Stoops is Top 15 personally but I’m happy to upgrade if we could also land them.

Mine, no order:

Harbaugh - not coming
Day - not coming
Saban - not coming
Smart - not coming
Sark - not coming
Venerables - not coming
Whittingham - not coming
Kiffin - not coming
Riley - not coming
Dykes - not coming


Maybe there’s a hot coordinator name but Stoops is 10 years proven where they may not be. Would be a gamble.

 

[KyCatFan]

I'd give him the 4-4 wins as well. It still only puts him at 7 wins against them compared to 25 against losing records. Shows how favorable the schedules have been for him here. Throw in a guaranteed 3 to 4 wins ooc every year and we are just marginally better. Not counting this year, he averages 6.6 wins a year.

There's no doubt we are better than the past, but we aren't a huge step better. I'll give him a ton of credit rebounding from the Joker years and helping to get our facilities improved, but we still are consistently about 4th in the East and like 7th to 9th overall. We're going to drop to like 10th to 12th overall most years with the added teams.

I think Stoops is just like Calipari now. Getting to comfortable after the big paycheck, going after fans, and likely won't improve on what he's already done here. He's hit his ceiling and won't top 7 or 8 regular season wins with the coming challenges of expansion and probably will be more 5 or 6 win seasons (imo). Especially with the constant struggles with recruiting qb's and wr's. I'm hoping he gets offered the Iowa job and takes his Big 10 style up there.

We're going to need an innovative coach to try and counter the recruiting disadvantages instead of playing a slow down milk the clock style and pray for no mistakes for us and multiple ones for our opponents to win most SEC games.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

It would be interesting to see how Stoops would do if he could get 15 four stars on average every year instead of 10. That would be another 20 four stars on the roster. That we level the player quality closer to the top teams. With that extra talent, could we take that next step with the coaches we have? I just think the talent discrepancy is a bit much for almost any coach to overcome. But, the way our three stars are coached up does make up a little of that difference.

Winningest coach ever here, all the firsts he has done on several fronts, the coaching up aspect that a lot of coaches is not as good at and the recruiting better than what we was ever used to, we just need to appreciate all that and hope that his recruiting can take another step up. He has got the program on a pretty solid level year in and year out. They do a good job with the portal. And I think the QB situation is about to improve with the two guys we have coming. That position has held us back forever. JMO

 

[Girthang]

Players don’t play for the university or the history of it. With the right coach, which we can afford any coaches salary, we can be contenders in the first 2-3 years. Players play for who is the coach and/or what system they run.

We literally can afford to offer any coach. We aren’t financially limited as to what we can offer.

You keep telling yourself that, try repeating it and click your heels together three times like in the movies, and the rest of us will keep our fantasies to ourselves.

 

[Girthang]

Money talks. A lot of coaches would come if they are offered 10mil a year. If we strike out, so what. It’s better than to settle for never expecting to be a contender.

Let me guess.... do you gamble much?

 

[NoDef]

I think that UK and Vandy might be the only two teams in the SEC that hasn't won their side of the conference. Some of it is bad timing I'm sure. Stoops did come through some bad Florida and Tennessee eras. He did take advantage of below average Florida teams , but UT still has his number. Couldn't win the East because Georgia had taken it to another level.. He has been more talented than UT, but he's always struggled to keep up with elite offenses. Heupel took over a 3-7 team and beat us at home in his first year. We struggle against great offensive minds with similar or better talent.

 

[UKAlum88]

You keep telling yourself that, try repeating it and click your heels together three times like in the movies, and the rest of us will keep our fantasies to ourselves.

It’s obvious you settle for mediocre results in more things than sports. 🙂

 

[UKAlum88]

Let me guess.... do you gamble much?

Other than a scratch off or power ball, no.

 

[Lost In FL]

Back to the OP ... or was it a similar thread(?), the more I have thought about it (which isn't too much), Story's article sounds like it is a perfect representation of what is wrong with today's "media" ... they have a "slant" or a narrative that they are writing about. Instead of writing about the "bad" (1-17 against Top 10) AND the good (10-1 in last 11 games against 11-25), they have an agenda to push ... whether "Stoops good" or "Stoops bad". It is intellectually lazy and we should expect better.

 

[Girthang]

Back to the OP ... or was it a similar thread(?), the more I have thought about it (which isn't too much), Story's article sounds like it is a perfect representation of what is wrong with today's "media" ... they have a "slant" or a narrative that they are writing about. Instead of writing about the "bad" (1-17 against Top 10) AND the good (10-1 in last 11 games against 11-25), they have an agenda to push ... whether "Stoops good" or "Stoops bad". It is intellectually lazy and we should expect better.

There are very few jobs outside of federal govt where you can do so little to be paid so much. Print journalists are some of the laziest people with jobs that I've ever worked with. They "work" on average about 2-3 hours per day, if that. Quite a few that cover sports never show up to anything at all outside of games where they can get a free meal and a high dollar ticket courtside, on the sideline, or in the press box.

A friend of mine was friends with some on the LHL staff for years, and even he stopped buying the paper because of their writers. Then they fired half of their award winning photo staff, and everyone I know cut them loose permanently shortly thereafter. We used to talk about how little actual news their was printed in it. We compared it to Chicago's and other big city papers. A little over 1 page total of world news for a 6 page, LHL Sunday section. Chicago had the same 6 page total but had 3 full pages of actual news.

I don't see how the paper didn't survive AND thrive considering the ad revenue alone and how high that ad pricing was. It was the same as a big city paper but with WAY less than 1/3 of the subscriber base.

 

[megablue]

Something we all need to keep in mind ... how many times have coaches been fired after losing to UK? That is how UK is viewed across the SEC. Like it or not. Hopefully that changes over a few more years of 8, 9, 10, 11 wins. But that will take time.

It would be interesting to know how many coaches USC, Florida, Vandy and Missouri have had during the time Stoops has been here.

 

[The-Hack]

but we still are consistently about 4th in the East and like 7th to 9th overall.

We are “consistently 4th in the East,” accept when we are second in the East, . . . three times the last 6 seasons.

Don’t folks know these things can be researched?

 

[KyCatFan]

We are “consistently 4th in the East,” accept when we are second in the East, . . . three times the last 6 seasons.

Don’t folks know these things can be researched?

Actually I did look it up. Says 4th, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 6th, and 7th. A couple we lost the tie breaker. That's a whole lot of 4ths.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/kentucky/index.html

 

[The-Hack]

Actually I did look it up.

Hmmm

Here’s Wikipedia:

2016	Kentucky	7–6	4–4	T–2nd (Eastern)	L TaxSlayer
2017	Kentucky	7–6	4–4	T–3rd (Eastern)	L Music City
2018	Kentucky	10–3	5–3	T–2nd (Eastern)	W Citrus	11	12
2019	Kentucky	8–5	3–5	T–4th (Eastern)	W Belk
2020	Kentucky	5–6	4–6	4th (Eastern)	W Gator
2021	Kentucky	10–3	5–3	2nd (Eastern)	W Citrus	15	18
2022	Kentucky	7–6	3–5	T–4th (Eastern)	L Music City

Since 2016, we have had as many 2nd place Eastern finishes, three, as we have had 4th place finishes.

Hence, I could as easily say we are “consistently 2nd in the East.”

We have finished 2nd, or tied for 2nd in the East three times since the conference split in 1992: all three since 2016.

Regarding finishing 4th in the East, from 1992 until 2016, our average finish was 5th (4.92), hence even a 4th place average finish would be an improvement.

 

[KyCatFan]

Hmmm

Here’s Wikipedia:

2016	Kentucky	7–6	4–4	T–2nd (Eastern)	L TaxSlayer
2017	Kentucky	7–6	4–4	T–3rd (Eastern)	L Music City
2018	Kentucky	10–3	5–3	T–2nd (Eastern)	W Citrus	11	12
2019	Kentucky	8–5	3–5	T–4th (Eastern)	W Belk
2020	Kentucky	5–6	4–6	4th (Eastern)	W Gator
2021	Kentucky	10–3	5–3	2nd (Eastern)	W Citrus	15	18
2022	Kentucky	7–6	3–5	T–4th (Eastern)	L Music City

Since 2016, we have had as many 2nd place Eastern finishes, three, as we have had 4th place finishes.

Hence, I could as easily say we are “consistently 2nd in the East.”

We have finished 2nd, or tied for 2nd in the East three times since the conference split in 1992: all three since 2016.

Regarding finishing 4th in the East, from 1992 until 2016, our average finish was 5th (4.92), hence even a 4th place average finish would be an improvement.

Wikipedia isn't taking tiebreakers into account. One of those 2nd places (2016) we are tied with 2 others and shows us as 4th place with worst overall record. We again tied and lost the tiebreaker in 2018 to drop us to 3rd. I just listed it where we fell after tiebreakers were considered. The site I used shows them in the order I listed by who won the tiebreakers.

 

[The-Hack]

4th, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 6th, and 7th.

I’ve looked your link up, but cannot find these numbers, anywhere.

Please lift and quote as I have done the Wikipedia info.

 

[The-Hack]

We again tied and lost the tiebreaker in 2018 to drop us to 3rd.

No, we didn’t. We were 5-3, tied only with Florida, in 2018, and possessed the tiebreaker, as we beat them head-to-head in Gainesville.


“When two or more teams tie for the best record in their division, each team is recognized as a divisional co-champion. Tiebreakers are used to determine who will represent the division in the championship game.[8]

Two-team tie-breaker procedure​

1. Head-to-head competition between the two tied teams.”

SEC Championship Game - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[The-Hack]

with worst overall record.

No, tiebreakers in the SEC are not based on “overall record:” ties are broken by the first criteria listed in my link, above, “head-to-head competition,” unless there are multiple teams, each having defeated one of the others, and then additional criteria comes into play to break that tie.

 

[The-Hack]

I’ve looked your link up, but cannot find these numbers, anywhere.

Please lift and quote as I have done the Wikipedia info.

Here are the seasons listed by you link. I have lifted and quoted them for you. Where are the conference standings you listed?????

2	2022	SEC	7	6	0	.538	3	5	0	.375	6.05	4.74	20	7		24		Mark Stoops (7-6)	Music City Bowl (L)
3	2021	SEC	10	3	0	.769	5	3	0	.625	8.73	0.50		11	18	18	22	Mark Stoops (10-3)	Citrus Bowl (W)
4	2020	SEC	5	6	0	.455	4	6	0	.400	6.12	6.94		23				Mark Stoops (5-6)	Gator Bowl (W)
5	2019	SEC	8	5	0	.615	3	5	0	.375	5.92	0.15						Mark Stoops (8-5)	Belk Bowl (W)
6	2018	SEC	10	3	0	.769	5	3	0	.625	12.06	4.37		11	12	9	14	Mark Stoops (10-3)	Citrus Bowl (W)
7	2017	SEC	7	6	0	.538	4	4	0	.500	1.30	2.92						Mark Stoops (7-6)	Music City Bowl (L)
8	2016	SEC	7	6	0	.538	4	4	0	.500	2.30	2.76						Mark Stoops (7-6)	TaxSlayer Bowl (L)
9	2015	SEC	5	7	0	.417	2	6	0	.250	-4.09	0.41						Mark Stoops (5-7)
10	2014	SEC	5	7	0	.417	2	6	0	.250	1.55	3.89						Mark Stoops (5-7)
11	2013	SEC	2	10	0	.167	0	8	0	.000	-3.51	5.41						Mark Stoops (2-10)

 

[bigbluemist]

You must of not watched the EKU game? Eastern freaking Kentucky.. lol

Let me guess, you took UK +14.5 and lost? Don’t gamble money you can’t afford to lose

 

[UKAlum88]

Let me guess, you took UK +14.5 and lost? Don’t gamble money you can’t afford to lose

Wrong guess.

 

[bluerock9221]

Been going to the games since the stadium was opened in 1973, so I have a broader perspective than most. I'll do the math for you. That's 50 years. Used to know a guy who played for the Vols in the late 80's. He said they always considered the game with UK as a "bye-week". No wonder. In those 50 years, I think our record against Tenn. is 7-43. Additionally, I have colleagues who are Florida graduates. Until Stoops came along (with exception to the Curci years) they would laugh in my face when I even tried to discuss UK football.

Well, those days are over. Coach Stoops has brought a respectablity to the program. UK is not a "bye-week" for any opponent. Georgia brought their A-game because it was UK. From where I sit, the program is going in a positive direction.

And a bit of advice from an old guy: Don't let your self-esteem get too attached to the success/failure of your favorite team. Go Cats!

 

[KyCatFan]

Here are the seasons listed by you link. I have lifted and quoted them for you. Where are the conference standings you listed?????

2	2022	SEC	7	6	0	.538	3	5	0	.375	6.05	4.74	20	7		24		Mark Stoops (7-6)	Music City Bowl (L)
3	2021	SEC	10	3	0	.769	5	3	0	.625	8.73	0.50		11	18	18	22	Mark Stoops (10-3)	Citrus Bowl (W)
4	2020	SEC	5	6	0	.455	4	6	0	.400	6.12	6.94		23				Mark Stoops (5-6)	Gator Bowl (W)
5	2019	SEC	8	5	0	.615	3	5	0	.375	5.92	0.15						Mark Stoops (8-5)	Belk Bowl (W)
6	2018	SEC	10	3	0	.769	5	3	0	.625	12.06	4.37		11	12	9	14	Mark Stoops (10-3)	Citrus Bowl (W)
7	2017	SEC	7	6	0	.538	4	4	0	.500	1.30	2.92						Mark Stoops (7-6)	Music City Bowl (L)
8	2016	SEC	7	6	0	.538	4	4	0	.500	2.30	2.76						Mark Stoops (7-6)	TaxSlayer Bowl (L)
9	2015	SEC	5	7	0	.417	2	6	0	.250	-4.09	0.41						Mark Stoops (5-7)
10	2014	SEC	5	7	0	.417	2	6	0	.250	1.55	3.89						Mark Stoops (5-7)
11	2013	SEC	2	10	0	.167	0	8	0	.000	-3.51	5.41						Mark Stoops (2-10)

Sorry had to go to bed to get up to go to the VA this morning. If you click SEC by the year, it shows the standings for each year. I listed what this site showed as the order.

 

[Catluv]

View embedded media

I saw an article that 17 teams we beat would of had a winning record if we didn’t beat them. In the old days that would be us losing those games. We are A WHOLE LOT MORE COMPETITIVE WITH STOOPS!!

 

[WILDCAT WILLIE69]

W. T. F. is the point of hiring a "decent" coach for even 7M per year? We have better than a "decent" coach who is recruiting to THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY FOOTBALL PROGRAM like no one has ever or consistently done before. Now people want to take a flyer on some other decent coach?! THATS EXACTLY what the boosters and admin did with Joker instead of putting money into the facilities for Brooks.

No matter what coach we have this will still not be GEORGIA, FLORIDA, BAMA, AUBURN, TEXAS, T A&M, OR UT. Why doesn't anyone get this? Pride in the state and university is one thing. Blind appraisals are another.

Georgia itself has languished by expectations if not national standards until they got Kirby Smart. Alabama had struggled before Saban got things going again. NOW DO KENTUCKY.

-No history
-Small recruiting base in state
-No influence outside of KY
-Lost recruits to MAC SCHOOLS for decades
-Can't seem to get admissions right
(Thinks they are Vanderbilt academically)
-Less than a handful of >.500 conference years
-How many conference titles?
-How many Heisman winners?
-Very little preseason marketing of UK players for national trophies/awards
-NIL?
-Beat UL how many straight seasons and start every season below them in the national perception?

Figure it out!

We have really just started 3-4 years of beating out some big programs for recruits that would go to other SEC schools and B1G contenders and NOW you want to bail on the coaches that got us there? Makes no sense

Yes. They have flaws. Yes. There are areas they need to improve. But damn...

50 year season ticket holder we will never be Alabama or Georgia I look at 7 Bowl games in a row graduate players
If fans don’t like him pull for someone else

 

[Seth_C]

Alabama wasn't a top 10 team when they hired Saban.

They had literally finished 8th only one season before they hired Saban, and had been ranked in the top 10 at some point during all but 11 seasons dating back to 1959.