Cal Wishes He Had Called Timeout and I Disagree

[UKCatsFan10]

Most of us have probably seen at least a portion of Cal's postgame quotes, part of which included him saying that he probably should have called timeout after Monk hit the game-tying three in order to get his defense set.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but even seeing how things played out I don't agree with him. During the final offensive possession for UNC, the only two players to touch the ball were Pinson (6.0 ppg) and Maye (5.8 ppg), who I'll grant you has played well in this tournament. Players that didn't touch the ball were Jackson (18.2 ppg), Berry (14.6 ppg), and Meeks (12.3 ppg), which also happen to be UNC's top 3 leading scorers. In other words, we did a nice job denying their primary offensive threats from getting the ball and essentially made two role players beat us. I think you just have to give them credit for creating a shot and knocking it down. It was an 18 foot jumper after all. It's not like they got a layup.

On the other hand, lets say Cal calls a timeout and gives a Hall of Fame coach the opportunity to draw up a play for one of the most offensively talented rosters in the tournament. In my opinion UNC's percentages go up at that point. Let's say that play results in a 12 foot floater for Jackson for the win. Cal is getting absolutely CRUSHED for calling that timeout.

The ending sucks. No way around it. I don't think Cal has any reason to doubt his decision though, and in fact I support it. People with a narrative against Cal will point to that moment and say "See, Cal is not a good coach." However, when you look at the breakdown of how things played out, in my mind he did the right thing. You just have to tip your cap to Carolina for getting it done.

 

[Mojocat]

Yeah. First, I think that's just Cal trying to take the blame so none of the kids do - his general philosophy is against calling timeouts, so I don't really think he thinks he should have done that, even the way it worked out. Second, as many have said, getting a former walk-on to take an 18 footer as time is winding out is probably better than most plays you could hope for. Certainly, Roy wouldn't have called for that in a timeout.

 

[The_Answer1313]

We had the guy shooting from UNC that we wanted whereas if we called TO they could have drew up a play for Jackson or Berry.

The flipside to that is UNC is very good in transition. They have been all year long. When that shot goes in from Monk, all UNC is focused on is getting the ball and going with it. With us, I can't help but wonder if the big shot from Monk right before distracted us ever so slightly in getting back on D. In which case, a TO might have been helpful.

Who knows tho.

 

[WildMoon]

yeah the whole timeout thing is Coach Cal's way to cover for our players.

Think about this. If they had missed that shot, would Roy be asked "Why didn't YOU call the time out?"

People don't realize this but neither of the Hall-of-Famer coaches called the time out.

 

[UKCatsFan10]

yeah the whole timeout thing is Coach Cal's way to cover for our players.

Think about this. If they had missed that shot, would Roy be asked "Why didn't YOU call the time out?"

People don't realize this but neither of the Hall-of-Famer coaches called the time out.

Roy famously elects not to call TO's, and he's taken some heat for it in the past when they don't get a good look. This time it worked out. Generally speaking, I agree with both coaches not calling timeout there. I think it's smart for the offense to get out in transition, and if you are an athletic man-to-man team like we are then I think it's smart to let your guys defend.

 

[Mojocat]

When that shot goes in from Monk, all UNC is focused on is getting the ball and going with it. With us, I can't help but wonder if the big shot from Monk right before distracted us ever so slightly in getting back on D. In which case, a TO might have been helpful.

You know, as I said in another thread, I was surprised when I watched the last 20 seconds again. I had it in my head there was some general chaos, that we left some guys unguarded as we got back on D and people were looking for someone to check. And that really wasn't the case. Meeks took the ball out and didn't really hustle down, so he's out of the picture, but the other 4 we have covered well. Including Willis checking Maye. And then, not as a matter of getting lost in coverage but rather as a determined choice, Willis leaves May for just a moment to help on Pinson. Even as he drops off, there's not a lot of room between Willis and Maye. Then Maye does the smart thing, he creates space by simply backing away towards the 3 point line. And so he's the only guy unguarded.

 

[*CatinIL*]

The guy from UNC hit a big shot. I'll give him that...good for them. What I won't ever forget is Ref Higgins.

 

[3rex]

He's not covering for anybody. That's bull. He is regretting not taking the TO. Personally I've seen it done both ways, countless times. As with any strategy, arguments for & against.

In hindsight, it would've probably been the right move because if you don't call a TO, the one thing you count on in such a situation is every player doing what they've been taught since little league...pick up your man.
Willis didn't. For some reason he ran back to the lane & guarded no one. And it cost us.
The one thing about calling the TO...everybody would've been on their man to start with.
I think that's why he regrets not calling one.

 

[kb22stang]

He's not covering for anybody. That's bull. He is regretting not taking the TO. Personally I've seen it done both ways, countless times. As with any strategy, arguments for & against.

In hindsight, it would've probably been the right move because if you don't call a TO, the one thing you count on in such a situation is every player doing what they've been taught since little league...pick up your man.
Willis didn't. For some reason he ran back to the lane & guarded no one. And it cost us.
The one thing about calling the TO...everybody would've been on their man to start with.
I think that's why he regrets not calling one.

So you're saying Willis had not been taught to guard his man? He knew where to be, he tried to help on the drive and forced an outside shot = good play.

A lot of people on this board seem to need someone to blame for the loss, Cal, Willis, refs, etc, but the bottom line is that sometimes the other team makes a play.

 

[3rex]

I thought I said pretty clearly. All our players, all players period, are taught that from little league.

One didn't do it & it cost us. I placed no blame on Cal.

 

[crawfords corner]

Yea, it's Luke Maye after all. It's not like he had a hot hand. I mean who wouldn't want the guy who finished shooting 10-15 against you on the season from getting the ball. He clearly can't shoot. Not like he shoots from that 20 foot area at a good clip. Um....

 

[kb22stang]

I thought I said pretty clearly. All our players, all players period, are taught that from little league.

One didn't do it & it cost us. I placed no blame on Cal.

My point was that a team out would not have altered Willis' decision.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Yea, it's Luke Maye after all. It's not like he had a hot hand. I mean who wouldn't want the guy who finished shooting 10-15 against you on the season from getting the ball. He clearly can't shoot. Not like he shoots from that 20 foot area at a good clip. Um....

So are you saying you'd rather that final shot be from Berry or Jackson? Maye coming into the game was shooting 41% from 2 and 28% from 3

 

[BlueSince92]

I disagree. A set defense always has an initial advantage over a set offense of equal caliber. The offense then challenges the defense in various ways. As a result the defense deforms, becoming stronger in some places to counter the threat--but that necessarily makes it weaker in other places. This continues and since the defense can only be reactive whereas the offense can be either proactive or reactive, the offense always gains an advantage over time because the defense always loses whatever time it takes to react. But the defense has the initial advantage. All that's only true for a set defense, however.

That doesn't mean I feel let down by Cal in the slightest. For one thing, in a quick transition sequence like that, while you do have a higher chance of getting a decent look for one of your players, you may easily have a lower chance of getting a decent look for any specific player. Because the offense can't set up either. So your odds of getting a good shot are higher with no timeout but your odds of getting a good shot from a player with a hot hand are lower with no timeout. And Cal was certainly aware of that possible advantage in the moment. I also agree with him that he wouldn't necessarily have been able to get a timeout if he'd tried for one in that environment. But all the same I think what he's saying in hindsight is perfectly reasonable, that if he could have got one it would have been worth doing. And I was thinking most all of this verbatim before Maye got the ball. If we had called a timeout and lost that way, and then Cal had said he wished he hadn't called the timeout, I would definitely have piped up and disagreed with him and I'd be saying pretty much what I'm saying now. He's still the bomb either way.

 

[JonathanW]

I agree with the OP, I don't think you call a timeout there unless you think your team simply isn't prepared for an end-of-game scenario.
I think Cal said that to shoulder the loss himself instead of the team.

 

[3rex]

ideally, if I had my wish, whoever took the shot would've done so with a hand in their face...Berry, Jackson, or anyone else. And I'd rather take my chances with my defense set the way I want, forcing them to inbound the ball as close to the baseline as possible, etc.

I don't blame Cal tho.

 

[StevieJFTW07]

It's a moot point if the damn ref 5 feet away had called the travel that Maye very obviously committed just before taking the shot.

 

[ganner918]

yeah the whole timeout thing is Coach Cal's way to cover for our players.

Think about this. If they had missed that shot, would Roy be asked "Why didn't YOU call the time out?"

People don't realize this but neither of the Hall-of-Famer coaches called the time out.

We know Cal doesn't like calling the timeout if his team is the one on offense. He wants his guys inbounding, getting down, and making a play against a team that isn't sitting back prepared with their defense. UNC is one of the best transition teams in the country. Seems if Cal thinks the offense is better taking it and going, and the opponent is great in transition, then calling TO to get your defense set might be the smart move. But it happened fast, you can criticize either way, you can win or lose either way. Having a role player take a 19 foot jumper is better than several other possibilities. It just went in.

 

[YourPublicEnemy]

Everyone knows that if he calls timeout and they hit a last-second shot, people would lose their minds and claim how stupid and awful of a coach he is. We all know it. That's exactly what would go down. They took their chances with a chaotic scramble and it came up good for them despite traveling. Imagine that being called there.

If Derek Willis isn't on the court or simply just stays on his man and doesn't help, you're probably looking at an off-balanced shot by Pinson. It's on Willis.

 

[brianpoe]

Cal said just the other day that in that scenario, if he is down and has the ball, he like his chances better without a TO so that the defense doesnt get set up.

He went against his own philosophy.


Since I know how the game ends without a TO i am going on record as saying I wish he would have called one...

 

[barryn2000]

When it works out bad...it's always easy to second guess. They miss...it was the right call, make it...wrong call.

I'm okay with his decision.

 

[crawfords corner]

So are you saying you'd rather that final shot be from Berry or Jackson? Maye coming into the game was shooting 41% from 2 and 28% from 3

First, your stats are wrong. Maye was shooting shooting 38%(14/36) from 3 and 72/150(48%) from 2, not 41% or 28%. I don't want either of them taking that shot. I don't want Luke Maye to take that shot either. BTW, he is a 55% free throw shooter who made 3 of 3. He's the hottest shooter in the game not named Isaac Humphries. If you set your defense you've got a chance to defend those guys. As you see in the play, Justin Jackson, too, was wide open. 2 of 3 guys you don't want shooting the ball there were wide open.

Here's the other thing about a time out there. UK is pressuring the ball. UNC doesn't likely get the ball across half court so easily uncontested with a time out. I'd rather take my chances with a set defense than a scramble where things are even less controllable.

 

[chevyman 50]

I thank Cal is right , they would have had time to set there defense..

 

[crawfords corner]

One thing I would add is I don't blame Cal for the loss. I don't think anyone in the program deserves "blame". You win as a team and you lose as a team. No one is to blame.

 

[jman3715]

My point was that a team out would not have altered Willis' decision.

If he had called a TO, Willis would not have even been in the game. Put Hawkins in, pressure the ball, hope for a turn over at best and worst case is a contested 20 foot shot.

 

[UKCatsFan10]

Just a difference in philosophy I suppose. Had he called timeout and UNC scored, we'd be having the same discussion in reverse. I don't think either method is necessarily right or wrong. If you had told me before the play (whether we call timeout or not) that the final possession was going to run solely through Pinson/Maye, and that Maye would take the game-winner from 19 feet out, sign me up for that. I'll take it... Credit to him for drilling it.

 

[Mojocat]

If Derek Willis isn't on the court or simply just stays on his man and doesn't help, you're probably looking at an off-balanced shot by Pinson. It's on Willis.

Maybe so.....but I have absolutely no faith that even if Fox forces Pinson to take an off-balanced shot the refs would swallow the whistle. Someone, Higgins most likely, would have blown his whistle, then you have Pinson shooting 2 free throws with .8 seconds left or whatever. Would still take an 18 footer by the reserve - whether he shoots 38% or 28% from the three.

 

[ManitouDan]

I've moaned about several decisions Cal has made , this isnt one of them

 

[The_Answer1313]

First, your stats are wrong. Maye was shooting shooting 38%(14/36) from 3 and 72/150(48%) from 2, not 41% or 28%. I don't want either of them taking that shot. I don't want Luke Maye to take that shot either. BTW, he is a 55% free throw shooter who made 3 of 3. He's the hottest shooter in the game not named Isaac Humphries. If you set your defense you've got a chance to defend those guys. As you see in the play, Justin Jackson, too, was wide open. 2 of 3 guys you don't want shooting the ball there were wide open.

Here's the other thing about a time out there. UK is pressuring the ball. UNC doesn't likely get the ball across half court so easily uncontested with a time out. I'd rather take my chances with a set defense than a scramble where things are even less controllable.

Your right I was looking at his yearly numbers, not career as I should have been.

That being said, someone is taking that shot, either against a set defense or in transition.

It doesn't really matter what Maye was doing that game. I mean that's like saying on the reverse side UNC would rather Issac not have taken that last shot compared to Monk because he had the hot hand during the game. I'm sure when Monk shot that last 3, no one on UNC wanted him taking it. If that fell to Issac, I'm sure they could have lived with it.

Bottom line is it could have gone either way. There are pros and cons to each. Yeah we would have had a set defense, but they would have set up a play, probably for Jackson.

I would have rather taken my chances with Maye TBH.

 

[kb22stang]

If he had called a TO, Willis would not have even been in the game. Put Hawkins in, pressure the ball, hope for a turn over at best and worst case is a contested 20 foot shot.

If you could get the timeout in that short of time frame and you subbed out Willis, then you have an argument. But if you're saying that you're going Bam, Hawk, Monk, Bris, and Fox then you've got a super small lineup. I'm still not sure I'd take that over the reserve taking the shot from 18

 

[jman3715]

If you could get the timeout in that short of time frame and you subbed out Willis, then you have an argument. But if you're saying that you're going Bam, Hawk, Monk, Bris, and Fox then you've got a super small lineup. I'm still not sure I'd take that over the reserve taking the shot from 18

Actually I probably would have gone Bam, Humpries, Hawk,Briscoe and Fox. They key in that situation would have been to force them to take more time in the backcourt bringing the ball up. They basically ran 45 feet uncontested.

 

[wobycat]

You call the timeout, but I believe he thought monk would shoot it closer to the last second. But cal is absolutely right, and this has nothing to do with his players, or his coaching style, or people would gripe if they scored off the timeout, or if Willis lost his man, which he didn't, he played help defense.

the best move here is to call timeout and get your best defense set up. Why anyone disagrees with cal on this one baffles me.

 

[Rockford]

UNC doesn't call timeouts in that position...... they like to run it down before the defense gets set.

I'm of the opinion that you do what the other team DOESN'T like to do...... which is, in this case, call a timeout.

 

[UKat51]

Actually I probably would have gone Bam, Humpries, Hawk,Briscoe and Fox. They key in that situation would have been to force them to take more time in the backcourt bringing the ball up. They basically ran 45 feet uncontested.

Maybe they could have trapped the ball in the backcourt with the timeout. We were too unorganized for defense after getting 3 three pointers in the last minute. The timeout would have allowed defensive strategy set. NC threw the ball in and we were chasing Pinson. Three defenders were trying to stop the ball and no one was guarding Maye. Maye played well as a shooter with 3 point range in both games this year. He would have been covered if we had called a time out and set our defense.

 

[tapemaster8]

Most of us have probably seen at least a portion of Cal's postgame quotes, part of which included him saying that he probably should have called timeout after Monk hit the game-tying three in order to get his defense set.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but even seeing how things played out I don't agree with him. During the final offensive possession for UNC, the only two players to touch the ball were Pinson (6.0 ppg) and Maye (5.8 ppg), who I'll grant you has played well in this tournament. Players that didn't touch the ball were Jackson (18.2 ppg), Berry (14.6 ppg), and Meeks (12.3 ppg), which also happen to be UNC's top 3 leading scorers. In other words, we did a nice job denying their primary offensive threats from getting the ball and essentially made two role players beat us. I think you just have to give them credit for creating a shot and knocking it down. It was an 18 foot jumper after all. It's not like they got a layup.

On the other hand, lets say Cal calls a timeout and gives a Hall of Fame coach the opportunity to draw up a play for one of the most offensively talented rosters in the tournament. In my opinion UNC's percentages go up at that point. Let's say that play results in a 12 foot floater for Jackson for the win. Cal is getting absolutely CRUSHED for calling that timeout.

The ending sucks. No way around it. I don't think Cal has any reason to doubt his decision though, and in fact I support it. People with a narrative against Cal will point to that moment and say "See, Cal is not a good coach." However, when you look at the breakdown of how things played out, in my mind he did the right thing. You just have to tip your cap to Carolina for getting it done.

The reason to take a timeout would have been to get Hawlinson the game. I don't think he could have got a timeout anyway as fast as they inbounded the ball!

 

[jrpross]

Cal says all the time that kids aren't robots.

Well. Neither are coaches. Some may call one in that spot, some may not. In reality, most coaches would probably not do the same thing every singe time. They play by feel a lot. This was a situation where it could have gone either way and in hindsight, yeah sure. I wish he would have called a timeout. But again, a dude taking an 18 foot jumper (before which I still say he traveled, by the way) is a great scenario for the defense. But in this case, he made it. Cest la vie.

 

[Hopmix]

he did the right thing. However, in the first game there was a time out. They had a chance at a look to win and missed it. That 2 minutes is a lot of time for people to overthink hitting a shot.
Im fine with either way.

 

[3rex]

Your right I was looking at his yearly numbers, not career as I should have been.

That being said, someone is taking that shot, either against a set defense or in transition.

It doesn't really matter what Maye was doing that game. I mean that's like saying on the reverse side UNC would rather Issac not have taken that last shot compared to Monk because he had the hot hand during the game. I'm sure when Monk shot that last 3, no one on UNC wanted him taking it. If that fell to Issac, I'm sure they could have lived with it.

Bottom line is it could have gone either way. There are pros and cons to each. Yeah we would have had a set defense, but they would have set up a play, probably for Jackson.

I would have rather taken my chances with Maye TBH.

Fair enough. But we took our chances with a wide open Maye...no one was guarding him.

 

[king of cali]

I don't think he could have got a timeout anyway as fast as they inbounded the ball!

Unbelievable that no one is talking about this. There was no hesitation with UNC getting the ball in. Gotta give them credit for that.

 

[jof2]

I thought I said pretty clearly. All our players, all players period, are taught that from little league.

One didn't do it & it cost us. I placed no blame on Cal.

The players know this too.