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Bill Self blasts NCAA on Diallo situation

Do you think a school deserves to lose wins without any knowledge of wrongdoing?

Until the NCAA changes the rules....... YES. .... you know how many schools have lost wins already because of the same thing? Until the NCAA says they are changing that....... letting a school or two off would be treating people like dog sh*t and human filth. How would you like it if you were imprisoned for 20 years for jaywalking but then your neighbor does it and was let off with just a warning?
 
Do you think a school deserves to lose wins without any knowledge of wrongdoing?

Again, that is the NCAA policy of "strict liability." And, for the record, coaches can also be punished even if they have no knowledge of wrongdoing. Those are the rules.
 
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Again, that is the NCAA policy of "strict liability." And, for the record, coaches can also be punished even if they have no knowledge of wrongdoing. Those are the rules.

I'll admit I don't know what strict liability (although I am guessing you define it in your second sentence).

What are your thoughts on amateurism as currently defined?
 
McCants made the honor roll as well. Just saying..
That got me thinking about entrance exams in general. We already know Peppers and McCants weren't capable of university level class work and others were basically illiterate. We're their entrance exams ever looked at? There is no way those guys could have passed with sufficient scores. That's part of my issue with Diallo. Apparently he did well enough on the entrance exams.
 
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So basically if I went to Murray and started handing him tons of money on the side and got him to come back for a sophomore year...... it would be ok? No vacated wins because the only 2 who would know was Murray and myself

Right? I mean thats what I'm getting from read KU posts.
 
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Stupid in full exhibition.

It's obvious from your vitriol you're just as biased in rooting against KU as the KU fan base you claim will spin anything to support the kid being declared eligible.

Obviously, any nonsense about Luck being motivated to not clear Diallo because of some clause in Huggins contract is ludicrous. It does appear that Andrew's father is a p*$$poor administrator, because there's no excuse to not have this investigation done before the start of the season. If they just found new information in the past month, that would make at least some sense. However, they decided to alert Diallo only come spring of his senior year, and didn't bother to notify everyone that they had put his highschool on increased scrutiny as far back as 2 and a half years ago?

Making that information public could have avoided all this for any of these blue-chip athletes attending that high school - which included other football and basketball players- such as transfer. I don't understand is how 2 other players have been ruled eligible already by the NCAA from his same high school, and they found those same core classes met the requirements?

Again, if the NCAA has anything else besides a Google search and rooting around on social media, like facebook, to establish a reason to classify his guardian an agent, then they can easily have already made a ruling- they have the proof, and can make it available publicly.

At the least, the information should be provided to the school, Diallo, and his guardian. Nope, they haven't even requested to interview his guardian, or Diallo, or visited the high school to investigate or speak with school officials?

That's what at issue. The governing body charged with taking care of clearance isn't doing anything except drag their feet.

Regardless of what school is involved, it's a dereliction of their appointed duties. If they have the proof, then rule him ineligible before the season starts, and if KU wants to appeal, fine, and then nobody has issues to criticize the situation. Fair or not, then at least why he is ineligible based on the evidence they release is known.

Make no mistake, a big time basketball program backed in full by the athletic department isn't going to rattle cages and publicly call out their governing and oversight body if they weren't certain that they looked at everything with a fine tooth comb and then looked it all again under a microscope to be certain that if they commented publicly about this and being p!$$ed that their not absolutely certain that it's not going to end with egg all over their face and to blow up in their laps.

Why do think the story has become covered so widely- because it's almost unheard of for not only a coach but the entire university's athletic department to come out forcibly and bash the NCAA on record numerous times.

If they weren't certain even just a tiny bit, they may still be irate in private or through backchannels, but you would definitely not see the coach sit down for a press conference and the AD's letter to the NCAA giving the full detail out there for general viewing.

As the saying goes, "A wise man apportions his belief based upon the evidence."

The athletic department of one of the 3 most profitable in the entire country is not going to stake the risk of the fallout over one recruit, no matter how good they may be, and especially when that recruit is virtually certain to only be on campus for one year, unless they know all the evidence and for sure have the high ground before even entertaining the notion of going on the assault versus the NCAA in broad daylight for all the public to witness.

As they say, "Never bring a knife to a gun fight!"

I started reading then realized it didn't end. No thanks. Cheater.
 
So basically if I went to Murray and started handing him tons of money on the side and got him to come back for a sophomore year...... it would be ok? No vacated wins because the only 2 who would know was Murray and myself

Right? I mean thats what I'm getting from read KU posts.
I'd have a hard time penalizing the other players on your team for something no coach, AD, or teammate knew about. I think thats punishing the wrong person.
 
That got me thinking about entrance exams in general. We already know Peppers and McCants weren't capable of university level class work and others were basically illiterate. We're their entrance exams ever looked at? There is no way those guys could have passed with sufficient scores. That's part of my issue with Diallo. Apparently he did well enough on the entrance exams.
That's besides the point and completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if he is a genius and scored better than the entire KU student body on his entrance exams. The bottom line is, there are certain rules that have to be followed and qualifications that have to be met.

Part of those rules are not attending high school diploma mills and part of those qualifications are having to complete so many core courses. Diallo did not follow those rules, nor did he meet those qualifications. He doesn't deserve any special treatment.

Thousands of kids went through the clearinghouse this year, all having to abide by the same rules and meet the same qualifications. 99% of those thousands that followed the rules and met the qualifications breezed through the clearinghouse without a single hiccup. This isn't an NCAA problem, this is a Diallo problem.
 
The first one looks right. The next one is a giant assumption based on heresay. That might be enough to condemn KU by UK fans but not by KU losing wins.
Darius Cobb, McLemore's AAU coach, admitted that he was paid $10,000 and the payment was arranged by Blackstock. He also said Richard Boyd, McLemore;s cousin received 2 trips to LA to meet with potential agents. Boyd denied the claims, but Cobb produced hotel receipts, airline ticket stubs and pictures to back up his claims.

If not for favorable treatment from the NCAA, KU would have been required to forfeit all the games where both Alexander and McLemore participated. If KU fans are truly interested in the NCAA being fair, I'm sure they would agree.

Based on how the Alexander and McLemore cases have been handled, KU should just go ahead and allow Diallo to play. They weren't penalized for playing those 2 when they were ineligible and I doubt that would punish them for playing Diallo now.
 
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I'll admit I don't know what strict liability (although I am guessing you define it in your second sentence).

What are your thoughts on amateurism as currently defined?

Strict liability was the basis for vacating wins at Memphis. The NCAA said it didn't matter if the school knew about it or not, the school was still liable for the actions of a single player, in this case, Rose.

Honestly, to answer your question on amateurism, I think it is a complete joke. I would prefer universities go to a semi-pro model and just quit pretending that these players are student-athletes. Many of them aren't. But, that is a subject for another day. For now, we are stuck with a model that is completely broken and will never be fixed until someone decides to face the truth.
 
This is simple. Let schools admit whomever they want, but require specific core classes they have to take and pass. If they don't make the grades in the first semester they are not eligible the rest of the way. Since the truly important games are in the second semester, taking kids that can't spell their name won't really pay off if they can't make it into the second semester. To avoid schools pulling a UNCheat, put school officials not in the athletic department in charge of supervising the students.
 
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This is simple. Let schools admit whomever they want, but require specific core classes they have to take and pass. If they don't make the grades in the first semester they are not eligible the rest of the way. Since the truly important games are in the second semester, taking kids that can't spell their name won't really pay off if they can't make it into the second semester. To avoid schools pulling a UNCheat, put school officials not in the athletic department in charge of supervising the students.

Got to admit. I like that idea.
 
Tricked wasn't a defense and the reason KU was spared was because as soon as they heard about it they stopped playing him.

As for the bias thing...KU isn't asking for special treatment here, they are asking for equal treatment. Stop dragging their feet and make a decision. It even says it in the letter.
If Diallo is sure he is being treated unfairly by the NCAA, why doesn't he threaten to sue the NCAA like the kid at UCF did? After he threatened a lawsuit he was cleared in a couple of days.

I don't think most UK fans want to see KU or Diallo get any special treatment either. If they don't have a legitimate reason for holding him out then he should be cleared. But as already pointed out, you have received special treatment in the Alexander and McLemore cases. I don't remember any KU fans complaining about how the NCAA handled those cases,
 
This is simple. Let schools admit whomever they want, but require specific core classes they have to take and pass. If they don't make the grades in the first semester they are not eligible the rest of the way. Since the truly important games are in the second semester, taking kids that can't spell their name won't really pay off if they can't make it into the second semester. To avoid schools pulling a UNCheat, put school officials not in the athletic department in charge of supervising the students.

But, the UNCheat scandal would have still happened because so many were in on it. UNC would have Crowder, Walden, Blanton, Boxill, or even McSwain doing the monitoring.
 
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Strict liability was the basis for vacating wins at Memphis. The NCAA said it didn't matter if the school knew about it or not, the school was still liable for the actions of a single player, in this case, Rose.

Honestly, to answer your question on amateurism, I think it is a complete joke. I would prefer universities go to a semi-pro model and just quit pretending that these players are student-athletes. Many of them aren't. But, that is a subject for another day. For now, we are stuck with a model that is completely broken and will never be fixed until someone decides to face the truth.

They expect to be taken seriously yet have no idea what something as simple as "strict liability" is. If you do not even understand this terminology, you can't understand the full hypocrisy and favoritism of the NCAA. As a Kansas fan, not understanding strict liability is hilarious in itself.
 
Do you think a school deserves to lose wins without any knowledge of wrongdoing?

I'd have a hard time penalizing the other players on your team for something no coach, AD, or teammate knew about. I think thats punishing the wrong person.


Hmm, but you guys love to toss out Cal and UMass.

You think they knew all along Camby was getting goods from an agent as an upperclassman.

And we hear UMass self reported.

Lost an entire Final Four season.
 
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Darius Cobb, McLemore's AAU coach, admitted that he was paid $10,000 and the payment was arranged by Blackstock. He also said Richard Boyd, McLemore;s cousin received 2 trips to LA to meet with potential agents. Boyd denied the claims, but Cobb produced hotel receipts, airline ticket stubs and pictures to back up his claims.

If not for favorable treatment from the NCAA, KU would have been required to forfeit all the games where both Alexander and McLemore participated. If KU fans are truly interested in the NCAA being fair, I'm sure they would agree.

Based on how the Alexander and McLemore cases have been handled, KU should just go ahead and allow Diallo to play. They weren't penalized for playing those 2 when they were ineligible and I doubt that would punish them for playing Diallo now.

This is why I say being a Kansas fan and NOT understanding strict liability is rich in itself.

KnowAllTellsAll knowsNotMuchAtAll.
 
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Darius Cobb, McLemore's AAU coach, admitted that he was paid $10,000 and the payment was arranged by Blackstock. He also said Richard Boyd, McLemore;s cousin received 2 trips to LA to meet with potential agents. Boyd denied the claims, but Cobb produced hotel receipts, airline ticket stubs and pictures to back up his claims.

If not for favorable treatment from the NCAA, KU would have been required to forfeit all the games where both Alexander and McLemore participated. If KU fans are truly interested in the NCAA being fair, I'm sure they would agree.

Based on how the Alexander and McLemore cases have been handled, KU should just go ahead and allow Diallo to play. They weren't penalized for playing those 2 when they were ineligible and I doubt that would punish them for playing Diallo now.


See here's your problem, you've already at the very start of this used heresay as proof. That was my point. A coach who was part of McLemore's life has a crisis of conscious and says "I have to get this off my chest I was paid and so was a family member" and then the NCAA investigates and finds nothing that they can consider proof.

Was he paid? To be honest, probably. However you can't just go by what one person says that may have an agenda. That's not the NCAA treating KU in a different way. I've been saying that over here since it happened yet it conveniently falls on deaf ears.
 
See here's your problem, you've already at the very start of this used heresay as proof. That was my point. A coach who was part of McLemore's life has a crisis of conscious and says "I have to get this off my chest I was paid and so was a family member" and then the NCAA investigates and finds nothing that they can consider proof.

Was he paid? To be honest, probably. However you can't just go by what one person says that may have an agenda. That's not the NCAA treating KU in a different way. I've been saying that over here since it happened yet it conveniently falls on deaf ears.


So what about Camby and UMass, this was self reported when they found out. Entire season vacated.

Alexander's games should be vacated. How do we really know when KU found out?

Also Cliff isnt talking so no foul? So... Derek Rose didnt talk either, and that was just cheating on a test - entire season vacated.


Why should KU be different?

Ineligible player is an ineligible. KU and UNC do not deserve to be allowed to break the rules.

They should be held to the same standard.



Every school can use the "but we didnt know", thats BS.

Every player can just not talk, thats more BS.
 
So BBN has complained about the travesty that is Derrick Rose a hundred times and now you want the same thing that happened to him to happen to Kansas even if you don't know for sure if it happened or not. Cliff didn't take the loan and we don't know the details. Yet here you want to vacate games even though we don't know anything and that's the only way to finish the Alexander case. Why? For fairness?

C'mon it's because you want games vacated because of the total wins race, be real.
 
So BBN has complained about the travesty that is Derrick Rose a hundred times and now you want the same thing that happened to him to happen to Kansas even if you don't know for sure if it happened or not. Cliff didn't take the loan and we don't know the details. Yet here you want to vacate games even though we don't know anything and that's the only way to finish the Alexander case. Why? For fairness?

C'mon it's because you want games vacated because of the total wins race, be real.


Total wins race? What race?

i just referenced your quote "well Cliff isnt talking, not much NCAA can do about it..." thats baloney.

You think the loan doesnt exist? You think Cliff was unaware?

Cliff was ineligible from day one at KU and all games he participated in should be vacated.


Wins race... LOL, you guys are second tier at this point man. What Blueblood gets blown out on a neutral court and then again at Temple?

Geez. Kid's not talking, school had no idea, thus no violation.? Only reason to punish KU is because of the wins race...?
 
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See here's your problem, you've already at the very start of this used heresay as proof. That was my point. A coach who was part of McLemore's life has a crisis of conscious and says "I have to get this off my chest I was paid and so was a family member" and then the NCAA investigates and finds nothing that they can consider proof.

Was he paid? To be honest, probably. However you can't just go by what one person says that may have an agenda. That's not the NCAA treating KU in a different way. I've been saying that over here since it happened yet it conveniently falls on deaf ears.
Cobb had hotel receipts, airline ticket stubs and pictures from McLemore's cousin, Richard Boyd's trips to LA. Blackstock's name was listed as using McLemore's tickets to 3 KU games. That is fact. not hearsay.

You say the NCAA investigated and found nothing wrong. What did the investigation consist of? Did they interview McLemore, Blackstock, Cobb or Boyd? Did they ask to see Cobb's proof that Boyd made the trips to LA to talk to prospective agents on McLemore's behalf?
 
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So BBN has complained about the travesty that is Derrick Rose a hundred times and now you want the same thing that happened to him to happen to Kansas even if you don't know for sure if it happened or not. Cliff didn't take the loan and we don't know the details. Yet here you want to vacate games even though we don't know anything and that's the only way to finish the Alexander case. Why? For fairness?

C'mon it's because you want games vacated because of the total wins race, be real.

Don't ascribe to "BBN" the desires of a few message board posters. Mkay?
 
That's besides the point and completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if he is a genius and scored better than the entire KU student body on his entrance exams. The bottom line is, there are certain rules that have to be followed and qualifications that have to be met.

Part of those rules are not attending high school diploma mills and part of those qualifications are having to complete so many core courses. Diallo did not follow those rules, nor did he meet those qualifications. He doesn't deserve any special treatment.

Thousands of kids went through the clearinghouse this year, all having to abide by the same rules and meet the same qualifications. 99% of those thousands that followed the rules and met the qualifications breezed through the clearinghouse without a single hiccup. This isn't an NCAA problem, this is a Diallo problem.
How many of those kids are foreign? Didn't speak English? Didn't have a parent to guide them? Had a handler who made the decisions? Your list starts getting short, quick. You don't need to agree with me, but the only real reason for the class requirements is to make sure kids are prepared. I'm more interested in results than I am procedures. Apparently you have no issue with Julius Peppers being cleared, and he was functionally illiterate, but a clearly bright kid like Diallo isn't cleared because he was mishandled. Yep, punish the kid.
 
How many of those kids are foreign? Didn't speak English? Didn't have a parent to guide them? Had a handler who made the decisions? Your list starts getting short, quick. You don't need to agree with me, but the only real reason for the class requirements is to make sure kids are prepared. I'm more interested in results than I am procedures. Apparently you have no issue with Julius Peppers being cleared, and he was functionally illiterate, but a clearly bright kid like Diallo isn't cleared because he was mishandled. Yep, punish the kid.
What does it matter if he's foreign or not? He spent four years at a high school in the US. During those four years he was supposed to earn 16 core credits, he earned six. That is no one's fault but his own. Not the NCAA's, not his guardian's.

Since you claim Diallo is so bright, I'm 100% certain he knew there were certain requirements he absolutely had to do in order to be eligible academically to play NCAA basketball. If you've ever known someone who played collegiate sports you would know that the NCAA makes it is as clear as can be what requirements need to be met, no ifs, ands or buts. The NCAA leaves zero guess work to the process. It's all laid out in front of you in black and white. The process is actually fairly easy to undergo.

Diallo, as bright as you claim him to be, could have easily taken it upon himself to make absolutely sure he met those requirements, but he did not, and now he is paying the price. Again, that is no one's fault but his own. Ignorance to the rules is not a defense; especially, when the rules are laid out as clear as can be, and explained to you every step of the way.

So, in your opinion the NCAA is supposed to give him a pass, even though he had the same exact four year opportunity as every single other student-athlete, yet he failed to complete the required coursework.

All you folks crying it's not fair to Diallo, well if the NCAA gives Diallo a pass, how about it not being fair to the other student-athletes that actually completed the required coursework and met the requirements laid out by the NCAA?
 
What does it matter if he's foreign or not? He spent four years at a high school in the US. During those four years he was supposed to earn 16 core credits, he earned six. That is no one's fault but his own. Not the NCAA's, not his guardian's.

Since you claim Diallo is so bright, I'm 100% certain he knew there were certain requirements he absolutely had to do in order to be eligible academically to play NCAA basketball. If you've ever known someone who played collegiate sports you would know that the NCAA makes it is as clear as can be what requirements need to be met, no ifs, ands or buts. The NCAA leaves zero guess work to the process. It's all laid out in front of you in black and white. The process is actually fairly easy to undergo.

Diallo, as bright as you claim him to be, could have easily taken it upon himself to make absolutely sure he met those requirements, but he did not, and now he is paying the price. Again, that is no one's fault but his own. Ignorance to the rules is not a defense; especially, when the rules are laid out as clear as can be, and explained to you every step of the way.

So, in your opinion the NCAA is supposed to give him a pass, even though he had the same exact four year opportunity as every single other student-athlete, yet he failed to complete the required coursework.

All you folks crying it's not fair to Diallo, well if the NCAA gives Diallo a pass, how about it not being fair to the other student-athletes that actually completed the required coursework and met the requirements laid out by the NCAA?
I'll respond tomorrow. I'm so tired I can't keep a thought in my head.
 
Being a smart kid has nothing to do with it.

I mean crap, if I went to Vandy and showed them my past grades and IQ.. you think they'll hand me a Diploma for med school out of the blue and give me a license? I mean after all doing the course work required doesn't matter after all.
 
No the only reason you care.

You are generally a good poster but when you are clearly losing an argument, you always resort to throwing out indiscriminate insults. I expect more from you because you are one of the better rival fans on this board.
 
You are generally a good poster but when you are clearly losing an argument, you always resort to throwing out indiscriminate insults. I expect more from you because you are one of the better rival fans on this board.

[roll][roll][roll] That's a good one...[roll][roll][roll]
 
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How is that an insult? I'm clarifying my statement because I was misunderstood.

To quote SAG: "Don't ascribe to "BBN" the desires of a few message board posters. Mkay?"

I hate it when message board posters get into a good discussion (and this one was) and one of them all of a sudden throws out the some of the following:

"You are jealous of Matt Jones."
"We know the REAL reason why you don't like Tubby."
"It is obvious why you said the religious discussion should move to the other board."

And, of course, we can now add yours:

"C'mon it's because you want games vacated because of the total wins race, be real."
 
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