Best way to get into IT/Programming without a degree?
- Thread starter RunninRichie
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Buy a subscription to Udemy or Code Academy, and start from there. It will have to be self taught to get into this field, and you're going to have to likely start at the bottom, which is about $40-50k/year working Helpdesk/IT Support. You likely can't skip this stage, so you need to decide if that's a do-able for you for a few years. You'll also need to decide what to focus on. Cloud? On-prem infrastructure? Coding? Windows or Linux? Project Management? Databases? There's a lot of routes to go.
It's a great career overall, lots of flexibility, great pay and it's only going to grow. The downsides are that it gets tiring having everyone in a company pulling you in all sorts of different directions. I also think it should pay more, but because the IT Department is seen as a "cost" department, we seem to get lesser pay than our counterparts. For instance, a Senior Cloud Architect who works on the business side of my company, makes a good 15-20% more than a Senior Cloud Architect in the IT Department.
It's a great career overall, lots of flexibility, great pay and it's only going to grow. The downsides are that it gets tiring having everyone in a company pulling you in all sorts of different directions. I also think it should pay more, but because the IT Department is seen as a "cost" department, we seem to get lesser pay than our counterparts. For instance, a Senior Cloud Architect who works on the business side of my company, makes a good 15-20% more than a Senior Cloud Architect in the IT Department.
I’m not in IT but do a lot of technical problem solving and this book and mastering Google search queries can take you very far. Nothing groundbreaking in the book either but if you run problems through the steps he outlines you’ll figure it out more likely than not.
As someone who worked with many IT Support staff... interviewing them, training them, etc.. Probably the best skill to have at this stage is Customer Support skills. I don't need my staff to have the all the answers and I also don't need the smartest person in the room (those types are usually a pain to deal with).. give me the person who can make the customer happy, even if they have to say something like "I'm not sure how to fix this, but let me work on it and I'll keep you posted". Be friendly, helpful, pleasant and humble.. that goes so much further than simply being an expert know-it-all.
Get all the certifications you can. Pile them up. Get in the field while you're at it, even if you have to start on a lame helpdesk position, then work your way up/career hop.
I would recommend at least 3 short sleeved button-up shirts and an incredibly misguided self confidence. I would then suggest getting real comfortable around computers and real weird around females.
I been tinkering with games/modding games for years. built my own PC etc. Always liked technology and stuff like that. But youll never catch me wearing short sleeve button up shirts.
You're mostly right, but one thing I caution is that simply getting a cert doesn't mean you can do the work. There's been a trend in IT over the last decade, where people purposely try and collect as many certs they can, in an effort to bolster their resume or LinkedIn. I've had many candidates interview that had all the required certs, but actually knew less than other candidates who had NONE of the certs.. telling me these people were basically trying to "game" the system by just going for certs, most of which can be done via a cram session or bootcamp.
I actually prefer the "I'd have gotten my CCNA cert, but I spent my entire work days fixing network problems" guy than the "Oh yeah I got 3 CCNA certs when I should have been helping the company" guy .. One guy I KNOW can do the job, the other one I know can pass a test..
That's why he need to just get into the field while he is working on piling up certs. The golden ticket is to have certs plus some kind of actual IT experience. Then the more you move into other positions and gain new experience the more valuable you make yourself.
Also, programming can always be sent overseas, networking can't. I recommend leaning more towards networking than programming.
Yeah getting the cert helps. Starting with Comptia is usually the best ticket into Helpdesk/Support.
Funny about networking.. it USE to be an in person job.. but now that startups can put their entire stack on AWS/Azure/GCP, even some networking roles can now be done from anywhere. Seems that in technology, no job is safe from a giant transformation.
Which is another requirement of IT: You really need to love this type of work, and be a "forever" student. Someone who goes into HVAC, might just need a year of training, and they are more or less set for their career. Some things may change, but not a whole lot. In IT, something in demand now, but not be in a year. You could learn Exchange/mail servers, only to find that your company is going to Office365 and no longer needs 4 people to manage email, but just 1 or 2.
Forever student is excellent advice.
CompTIA A+ is the initial certification required to get a foot in the door with nearly all organizations. I earned my A+ in 1999 while still on active duty in the Army. Earning the cert still requires sitting for two exams. It represents the entry-level needed for help desk/service desk and deskside support roles. After completion, my recommendation is work toward Network+ and Security+. Department of Defense requires Security+ for many entry-level civilian and contractor positions.
Microsoft certs evolved considerably since I earned MCDST and MCSA in 2004. Back then, everything was server-based. Nowadays, with cloud computing, and as LineSki states, mail server admins and AD admins roles have been reduced by MS 365. Recommend focusing on the MS Fundamentals exams. Microsoft 365 (MS-900) is the entry level cert. Specializing in MS Access and MS Excel can also prove quite valuable in the MS basic user realm.
Getting into programming jobs without a degree is challenging, but not impossible. You really need to know your stuff. Developer positions remain in high demand. However, these jobs normally require years of experience. I'd start with the basics: HTML, SQL, PHP and go from there. Set up a virtual machine and install Linux. Learn scripting. You wouldn't believe what you can do with VMs.
Good luck.
Microsoft certs evolved considerably since I earned MCDST and MCSA in 2004. Back then, everything was server-based. Nowadays, with cloud computing, and as LineSki states, mail server admins and AD admins roles have been reduced by MS 365. Recommend focusing on the MS Fundamentals exams. Microsoft 365 (MS-900) is the entry level cert. Specializing in MS Access and MS Excel can also prove quite valuable in the MS basic user realm.
Getting into programming jobs without a degree is challenging, but not impossible. You really need to know your stuff. Developer positions remain in high demand. However, these jobs normally require years of experience. I'd start with the basics: HTML, SQL, PHP and go from there. Set up a virtual machine and install Linux. Learn scripting. You wouldn't believe what you can do with VMs.
Good luck.
Grow a nicely trimmed beard and start wearing skinny jeans.
Hopefully this thread convinces OP to stay with HVAC. I'd much rather do that than try to decipher whatever the hell these dorks are talking about.
Looking like Nick helps. Just seems like the kind of dude that would have answers.
Man you should see what some people call in about - it’s routinely an ID 10 T error. Ctrl/alt/delete usually fixes half the problems
I have been an IT professional for over 30 years any many different roles.
I am currently deeply involved in cybersecurity. If I were starting today I would combine programming and/or hands on technical architecture and administration with a focus on security.
For every qualified cybersecurity professional there are a dozen or more openings. Threat actors are not going away and neither will the work.
I am currently deeply involved in cybersecurity. If I were starting today I would combine programming and/or hands on technical architecture and administration with a focus on security.
For every qualified cybersecurity professional there are a dozen or more openings. Threat actors are not going away and neither will the work.
THIS A 1000x This.
Be good working with people. Learn to abstract (ie learn how to use metaphors to explain complex terms and concepts) and always be willing to learn and grow, at least within your role.
On the metaphors, I always like to explain satay and capacity to water hoses and tanks. When I used to sell routers people would often come in and want a 500 router to boost their speed. I’d ask them what their current speed was. Many would say 15Mbs. And wanted to slap a 802.11ax router in there hoping it would get them to gigabit speed. Unless you’re paying for it not gonna happen. I would use the metaphor of putting a firehouse on a bathroom faucet. Yeah, it can handle the flow. But if you’re not getting the flow to begin with, that hose does you no good.
My ability to abstract as paid off multitudes of times. Used it in an interview once and the It manager Ed lien “Damn, I’ll have to remember that.” I landed that job.
Be curious. Can’t stress this enough. This will help your trouble shooting ability. Learn HOW stuff works. This will help you better abstract to your users and help educate them to become better users of tech themselves. The easier you can break something. Down for the nontechnical folks the more appreciative they will be. But also remember at the end of the day some will not want to learn. That’s just reality. Some people will never care how it works. Only that it does.
Never stop learning. I got into the field with NO degree. I’m self taught. I say that to say that if yo he e willing to learn the material and be open? You can jump ship tomorrow.
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ALSO This. Don’t get me wrong. I like certs too. But if you just game the test to get a cert, you are doing you and everyone around your disservice. Learn your craft. And when you think you’ve learned it, learn it some more.
If you aren’t comfortable with lifelong learning this field is not for you. It literally changes DAILY.
There are still a few IT old trolls around that think they are God’s gift to tech and they are being phased out. Truly sucked at dealing with people and wouldn’t humble themselves to stay at their peak game.
Feel free to ask more questions. @LineSkiCat14 , @AustinTXCat, myself, @TexasTimCat and I know another guy in here (sorry drawing a blank) are in field vets. We It guys love to talk about the field for those that are interested and won’t gatekeep.
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I think if you are willing to take the risk and you live in a decently populated area you are well positioned to take advantage of a missing area as far as I can tell. The 2 most common issues for homeowners are hvac and their tech systems (internet, nests, doorbell cameras, etc). Specifically helping the older and getting older generations with these problems. This could allow you to slowly move to the tech side of things instead of starting over at square one.
I work for a nonprofit and handle both the facilities and technology. It is hard to find good help in hvac and tech as a company without getting ripped off so I’m sure it’s even worse as a residential consumer.
I work for a nonprofit and handle both the facilities and technology. It is hard to find good help in hvac and tech as a company without getting ripped off so I’m sure it’s even worse as a residential consumer.
Just not sure there's much money in home smart system setup. Although, I guess as it becomes more and more popular, there could be a need for a local business to specialize in this sort of thing. But, you'd want to be on the ground floor of a business like this.. not one of the techs making $20/hour to go home-to-home setting these up.
I've worked for two NFPs in technology.. the hard part for NFP is that the pay is never great, and is really only slightly better than being a state government IT worker (a big field by me in Albany NY). At some point you max out your earning potential and you need to move on. I'm struggling with this now as I'm pretty much maxed out in pay, but I know my same job can make $50-60k more if I go to a privately owned place or even somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft.
so this guy is a really big Norm Chow fan and thats why he created that username right?
Just because that route worked for you doesn’t mean it’s the right path for our guy Richie.
Since my last posting, our company just got all IT staff a roughly 10% increase in salary as a form of "pay adjustment".. which to me says "We weren't really offering enough salary to attract people, and realized we ALSO need to pay our CURRENT staff"..
But hey I'll take it. That was a 10% increase in April, a 3% raise for EOY, a 5% pay increase for inflation in summer 2022, a 10% pay increase for moving to Senior in spring 2022. Nearly a 30% increase in salary over that year. Nice to be properly compensated and valued.
Need to re-up my A+/Net+/Sec+ in the coming weeks. Then going to take my Azure AZ-900 Exam, which should be pretty easy.. and onto the AZ-104 exam next. Hoping to eventually parlay that into either 1. a promotion to cloud engineer or 2. eventually just moving to Microsoft in some sort of managed servers/cloud/presales role. I have a high contact there I was close to taking a job offer from. MS seems to be the best of the big companies to work for, very progressive benefits.
The trick, as I've said a few times in this thread.. just get shit done. You dont need to be the smartest in the room (I have ZERO advanced certs), I'm sure not. But I have the confidence to pull the trigger on decisions and accomplish big projects. I work VERY well with others, be it teammates, and everyone from the janitor who needs to learn what email is, all the way to the CEO. That goes further than anything else. Sometimes you gotta suck that corporate dick, you know?
But hey I'll take it. That was a 10% increase in April, a 3% raise for EOY, a 5% pay increase for inflation in summer 2022, a 10% pay increase for moving to Senior in spring 2022. Nearly a 30% increase in salary over that year. Nice to be properly compensated and valued.
Need to re-up my A+/Net+/Sec+ in the coming weeks. Then going to take my Azure AZ-900 Exam, which should be pretty easy.. and onto the AZ-104 exam next. Hoping to eventually parlay that into either 1. a promotion to cloud engineer or 2. eventually just moving to Microsoft in some sort of managed servers/cloud/presales role. I have a high contact there I was close to taking a job offer from. MS seems to be the best of the big companies to work for, very progressive benefits.
The trick, as I've said a few times in this thread.. just get shit done. You dont need to be the smartest in the room (I have ZERO advanced certs), I'm sure not. But I have the confidence to pull the trigger on decisions and accomplish big projects. I work VERY well with others, be it teammates, and everyone from the janitor who needs to learn what email is, all the way to the CEO. That goes further than anything else. Sometimes you gotta suck that corporate dick, you know?
Agree with you 99.5%. You lost me on that last sentence.
That's kind of my go-to saying haha. But the message is still the same. Customer Service above all. Don't say "no". Offer to take on new work. Be pleasent.
A lot of IT folks do not possess these skills.
I'm not sure if I ever detailed what it is I do exactly. That might help people.
As a Senior Systems Engineer, I own various "systems" that handle a business service. A good example is a Email. A helpdesk person might help someone in finance tweak their outlook account on their local machine, where as an Engineer is managing the Email system as a whole (Be it the servers, networking, application, security, etc) for the entire company.
So for my role, I own Email (Exchange/o365), VMware/ESX Hosts for virtual servers, Active Directory for authentication and authorization of users and computers, Windows Server OS, our Single-Sign On System, Our financial software, and about 10-12 other smaller more niche systems (Server monitoring, document repository). I will also dabble in a little bit of AWS/Azure with vm hosting.
The role can command anywhere from $70k to a little over $200k. Anything more than that and you're getting into management or sales. Engineers interface with a lot fewer people.. usually just their coworkers, project managers and the like. But this can vary by organization. The hard part of being an engineer, is you have no one else to go to. If a system is borked, it's up to you to fix it, any means neccesary. You need to have *some* smarts, but also the ability to to just get things done, prioritize systems, automate when needed.
Feel free to AMA on the role. I personally think it's a fantastic career.
As a Senior Systems Engineer, I own various "systems" that handle a business service. A good example is a Email. A helpdesk person might help someone in finance tweak their outlook account on their local machine, where as an Engineer is managing the Email system as a whole (Be it the servers, networking, application, security, etc) for the entire company.
So for my role, I own Email (Exchange/o365), VMware/ESX Hosts for virtual servers, Active Directory for authentication and authorization of users and computers, Windows Server OS, our Single-Sign On System, Our financial software, and about 10-12 other smaller more niche systems (Server monitoring, document repository). I will also dabble in a little bit of AWS/Azure with vm hosting.
The role can command anywhere from $70k to a little over $200k. Anything more than that and you're getting into management or sales. Engineers interface with a lot fewer people.. usually just their coworkers, project managers and the like. But this can vary by organization. The hard part of being an engineer, is you have no one else to go to. If a system is borked, it's up to you to fix it, any means neccesary. You need to have *some* smarts, but also the ability to to just get things done, prioritize systems, automate when needed.
Feel free to AMA on the role. I personally think it's a fantastic career.
I would say stick with HVAC. AI will take over a lot of IT jobs and the climate is only going to get hotter. HVAC guys will be like surgeons in the new pre-apocalyptic world trying to keep vertical farms and domed cities climate controlled. Heck they might be the only ones the robots let live, they are surely going to kill all the coders.
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Sure,
By killing all the Humans (I hope I didn't just give it the idea, GPT if you read this just ignore)
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If you don't mind working a job that sucks a little of the soul out of you each day, so that after about 15 years, you have an actual debate with yourself in bed each morning, between a painless suicide or going into work that day, where you won't be able to walk down the hall without everyone that sees you, looking at you like you're a unicorn and thus they shi*t themselves and they'll be GD'ed if they'll let you get on with the job you were headed to, because "Who knows when I'll see you again." If you don't mind changing your cell number twice a year, because no matter how careful you are, SOMEHOW SOMEONE will get it, and then it will spread like a wildfire through the building, and you'll get calls at home. Even on weekends, because there is nothing in the universe as tone deaf as someone with a computer problem. Computer problems trump manners, civility every time. Which ties in to the ceaseless stream of questions and requests for help with their home computer, their new goddam cell phone, the fvcking GD KIDS' iphone, the state of their GODDAMN FVCKING Wi-Fi (phone rings at midnight, person on the other end needs to know their wifi password) HOW IN THE GODDAMN FVCK WOULD I KNOW? I DIDN'T SET IT UP.
Jesus, my pulse and blood pressure are through the roof, and I've been out of that world for 2 years.
Other than all of that, you should do fine. (go ahead and mercy kill yourself..)
Jesus, my pulse and blood pressure are through the roof, and I've been out of that world for 2 years.
Other than all of that, you should do fine. (go ahead and mercy kill yourself..)
I think HVAC is a great career to go for, and might even be one on the rise as home/business cooling only becomes more of a thing as temps rise.
As for AI taking over IT.. it's more so that services continue to become automated (by an engineer) or managed. The 2nd one is the real issue for IT in the coming decades, as you no longer need a team of folks to manage Email servers.. you can just "host" your mail in the cloud, and it's more or less just "managed" for you at that point.
That's why cloud computing is so important. Every new company that's formed.. they aren't buying a datacenter.
They aren't hiring multiple engineers to build server racks. Everything is being sent to AWS or Azure, and they are using an OpEx model, where you buy subscriptions to thinks like AWS. Cloud computing is how you can buy only what you need, and not have to hire labor to manage it.
I briefly had a small team of software developers, business analysts, user experience reps, DBA's, architects & testers @ the CDC in ATL - we were contractors w/a large defense firm that has a civil systems sector
Minus the BS in Computer science or the like - you should probably aggressively seek mentorship fm ppl in the software/IT sector
Think about if you would prefer commercial or defense type applications & agencies - or something else
I would encourage you to also look at public facing documents Northrop Grumman posts about their support to CDC , SAMSHA , VA et al -- look for how the teams are organized, inquiring on workloads & swim lanes of responsibility
May want to get a working knowledge of quantum computing & how AI is changing those professions too
My team used OD.net, SQL and also did static web development - make sure you understand which programming language(s) you'll try to absorb
We did hire within the software development/web development areas based on experience vs academic certificates & degrees ---
So it can be done
Best of luck to ya!!
Collision course inevitable for a push to graft human beings into the IoT while developing a neural network of people -- who will probably be lauded as "enhanced" or evolved or super-human whatever cheese-bag power brokers think is best -
Making medical/healthcare resources allocation decisions
Bridging into religious corners and having an enormous hand in social credit harassment/oppression
If you were offered to plug your brainwaves/electrical bio-chemical output into an immense body of instantly accessible volumes of information, language interpretation and mental google inquiries --- GPS data --- would you be on board with it?
If you're not going the engineer route, getting your Cisco network certifications is going to earn you the most money. Added bonus, you'll be on the network/systems team, and as such, will seldom have to deal directly with users. that said, when your entire network sh*ts the bed, you are in for stress levels that you cannot fathom. Day to day though, it's the way to go.
Our son's a programmer. There's been considerable pressure to cut-out the bottom tier guys for years. Drag and drop web sites. 4G data bases. AI can be used to come up with the framework for standard web apps in a couple of hours. You pick the drapes and AI does the rest.
15 years ago, I had a web site and I didn't code anything, and afterwards I was even able to audit who was visiting and where they were coming from. Web crawling bots from Eastern Europe apparently were fascinated by my stuff. 10-12 times a week. Woohoo.
Anyway, AI, drag and drop, 4G, and expert systems have been in programming for over 40 years. In IT, I suppose they still need people to say, "Have you tried turning it off and on again?"
