If there wasn't a Cal, I could see the appeal of being mentored by Penny and Miller. But they do not offer anything that would help move them up the draft projections that Cal can't provide.
Ben Roberts: Jeffries actively working on Wiseman to join him at UK
- Thread starter Smashcat
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Plenty of lottery projected players are busts and flame out. Cal also has players that were on nobody's list of OADs. But keep hatin', keep hatin'.
This dumb Memphis fan is so wrong on so many accounts. Cal is a major reason these kids get drafted so high. Towns was ranked #9 by ESPN and okafor was ranked #1. Cal got Towns drafted number one and he’s now an all star. Okafor gets drafted number 3 and is nowhere to be found in the nba. Top players can often be developed wrong by their college coach. Phil Jackson said that coach K never developed his players. NBA guys say Cal does.
I'm dense, so please clarify. Cal is the master evaluator of talent and recruiter. He lands Top 2 recruiting classes every year. He turns Top 10 picks into #1 picks, Top 25 picks to Top 15 picks, and 2-3 years players into OAD. Why is there only 1 championship to show for this miraculous work?
Are UK fans seriously more interested in all this "Cal gets the players to the NBA" instead of the glaring fact that these uber talented teams were beaten by inferior teams in 2010 (WV), 2014(UConn), and 2015(Wisconsin)?
If Cal were as good of a coach as UK fans and the talking heads believed, he would have at least 6 titles to his credit instead of 1 (Memphis 08, UK 10-12, 14-15). In all of these years, he had the most dominant, talented, and imposing team, yet only won 1 title.
Cool, a Memphis fan lecturing us on titles. Could you give us insight on how difficult it is to win one? How many titles does Memphis have? How many title games has Memphis been too? How many does UK have? You probably can't answer since your program has 0 experience winning one.
FYI Kentucky has more national titles than Memphis has Elite Eight appearances. You might want to get your own house in order before barking to us.
Memphis Elite Eight appearances:1973, 1992, 2006, 2007, 2008
Exactly.
Meanwhile, Coach K has took the same amount of talent the last two years and won back to back championships. Too bad Cal can't translate young super talented teams into champions like K can.
![[pfftt]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1682173.gif "Pfffttt [pfftt]")
Since Cal has been at UK, Coach K has won 2, Jay Wright has won 2, and UConn has won 2 (owning UK both times). 2 of those programs have somehow won with inferior talent than UK. Funny thing about facts is, well, they are facts.Exactly.
Meanwhile, Coach K has took the same amount of talent the last two years and won back to back championships. Too bad Cal can't translate young super talented teams into champions like K can.
K has a decade of coaching experience on Cal, yet he only has one title since he started recruiting OAD talent, just like Cal. Calhoun is retired and Ollie lost his job, so UConn is irrelevant now. Wright is the hot guy, but let's see what he does moving forward. Remember everyone raved about Donovan after two straight titles, then he went to the NIT two straight years and eventually bolted for the pros. Donovan found out how hard it is to maintain greatness. Wright will as well, IMHO.
Titles take a lot of luck. Talent and coaching can only take you so far. You have to catch some breaks.
Our coach isn't perfect, but to dismiss him because he has failed to win multiple titles is beyond asinine.
How many titles does your team have during the same time frame? Dean Smith was at North Carolina 36 years with the best players in college basketball and won only two titles. He is a Hall of Fame coach.
We are wasting our time. This guy has his agenda. He will spin it however he wants. He is a Memphis fan, so when we talk about titles, we are speaking a foreign language for him. He is just regurgitating the same poison that he has read on this board posted by other trolls. I should have never taken his bait. I know better. What a waste of my time.
He hates us because he ain't us. What a sorry SOB. Cal saved your program. He made your name, without him your no different than Middle Tennessee St
OK, I'll take the bait, at least a little. UCONN did have inferior talent, especially the Ollie championship, but they were also a higher seed than UK when they won. Villinova and Duke (4 of the titles) were far from inferior talent. At least 3, and maybe all 4 were 1 seeds, with several high profile players on the team. As UK fans, we don't care more about the NBA, we are just pointing out the absolutely stupid comments made by Penny. You want to know how much Cal matters, UK just got 5 players invited to the combine. Knox is likely the only one that gets invited if anybody else is the coach.
Should Cal get all the credit? No, there are other influences in these kids lives that drive them to be the players they are. But, Cal does get as much credit as a coach can get. Wiseman gets to the NBA regardless of where he goes. The same as Okafor and thousands of others. But Cal will get more out of his talent than any other coach. And because so many UK fans follow UK players in the NBA, there is a lot more money to be made by passing though Lexington, than passing though anywhere else.
I have signed as many top 50 recruits as "Penny" has.
Look Cal is one of the two best recruiters in college basketball. That is not disputable. He is a great evaluator of talent. But he has had quite a few misses too. I'm not sure any coach would turn these guys down but a lot of these guys were way overrated like Diallo, Gabriel, Richards, Skal, Briscoe, SKJ, Lee, Harrow, Goodwin, Wiltjer, Dakari, etc. I guess you take these guys thinking you can develop their weaknesses but the problem with that is these guys usually bounce before they're developed and we get very little out of them. It's a high risk, high reward philosophy because if you have a new roster every year and you get a couple of misses you have seasons like the one we just had and 2013 where we struggle 90% of the year.
How many titles has 1 cent won ?
Let the bbn know when old one fifth
of a nickel wins something.
Because the NBA doesn't draft the same things that win NCAA championships in a randomized single elimination tournament.
You'd know that if you knew anything about NBA players or NCAA titles.
But you don't, so you're here disparaging the very coach that is the reason you're here while defending a guy that coached middle school kids a few years ago.
You're as awful as your program but not nearly as hilarious.
Penny is just starting his career. He’s not a “legend” to anyone yet.
I’ve never said he’s the best coach. However, how has a coach that is an expert at evaluating talent, recruiting top 2 classes , & “coaching it up” only have 1 title, yet K has 2, Wright has 2, & Uconn has 2 in the years Cal has been at UK. All those NBA contracts have amounted to 1 title while 2 other schools have 4. Keeping hating on what Penny may or may not so. Don’t look at what a “HOF” coach hasn’t.
Why do you come here and bash cal ? It is not going to make me like memphis anymore than I already don't.
I will make you a wager that Cal wins one before penny.
RIght, like Jesus H.. of all people who should know just how elusive a NCAAT can be.. A Memphis fan talking to us about coming up short.
If you're someone who thinks Kentucky was just supposed to automatically win 3 or 4 titles since Cal has been here (and damn if we didn't get shafted so many times, we might have)... then your knowledge of the game is clearly lacking. Best teams don't always win..
At the same time.. Cal has four Final fours.. Coach K, Wright, Self, Ollie, Calhoun, Roy.. none of them have that in the last 10 years. He also has six Elite 8's, something else no one else has in that time.
Cal has satisfied fans to the fullest. The ONLY thing we're maybe looking for is just 1 more title, and that would make him damn near a perfect coach for us. Think about that? Can Duke fans even say it? 3 early tournament exits? How about Kansas with Self? How about Pastner, Tubby, and Penny? How about any coach?
Cal is batting very close to 1.000. You're not going to be able to pick him apart and have Kentucky fans agree. We wouldn't trade him for the world and you'd throw Penny to the curb in a heartbeat to have Cal's success.
For all those people still wondering where James Wiseman will play college basketball, here is a fresh hint. Which 2 guards did Wiseman admit that he wants to play with?
You can down Calipari all you want but Memphis and your fanbase has never been the same since he left. You will never be anything more than a stepping stone job to something bigger and better because your a mid-major program at best. Bottom line look at your records before and after Calipari left and cam e there and you see what Memphis truly is. This is big boy basketball.
As a neutral observer in this discussion, I don't get where Memphis fan is coming from with the bashing of Cal's coaching? Look how he performed at UMass and Memphis without the "elite" talent. Prior to his arrival, the last time anyone took Memphis seriously was with Dana Kirk coaching William Bedford, Andre Turner, Keith Lee, Baskerville Holmes, etc....and while Larry Finch had talent he couldn't coach a lick.
So you want to bash his work at Kentucky while leaving out the fact that he's coaching in a system that has guys on campus from June-April and new crop comes in the following June. I'd argue his success rate with that type of approach to building a roster/with the pressure of the job he's holding is quite high. If this was 1980's to mid 2000's I see your criticism as being more valid but in a 1 and done format for selecting a champion, things happen. You know this from seeing what Villanova did in Lexington in '85 as a Gtown fan I was praying Memphis would win that game so Hoyas could go back to back and knowing how tough Nova played them during Ewing era. He's won a NC in 2 NC games, been to 4 Final Fours, 6 Elite 8's, and only missed NCAA's in '13 when Noel was out with torn ACL. The UConn team he lost to was undefeated outside of conference play in '11, and like they had in '14 had veteran guards. If you want to be critical, I'd say '15 semifinal was lost due to coaching decisions against Wisconsin, and should've had his 2nd title against them, but 38-1 isn't anything to sniff at either.
If you think players don't develop at UK under their staff, you are a hater. The material is there, but you have to get them to not only work on aspects of their game that aren't strong but doing so while incorporating it into a team concept and sacrificing personal stats to get better and to win. How many coaches using the approach Calipari has have done it better or at a rate you can justify bashing his coaching with the approach?
In the my lifetime, I've seen Duke and UNC win 5 titles, UK and UConn 4, Indiana and UCLA win 3, Villanova, Florida, Michigan St, Louisville (* for my BBN friends) and Kansas 2, Just turned 43, so that's 11 programs making up 34 of the 43 titles during a span. Out of that group, Kentucky in '12 and Duke in '15 won with 1 and done core--but both had key veterans (Darius Miller, Doron Lamb, Terrence Jones) (Matt Jones, Quinn Cook, Amile Jefferson, Plumlee part 100) to give minutes. So 2 out of 43 champs were built with a strong emphasis on 1 and done players.
Now what has Memphis done in that same span? Should've won in '08, and who was coaching? Did he miss the FT's? Did he have as talented of a team as Kansas? Looking at NBA rosters I'd say no, so it wasn't talent that came up short, it was guys not executing which happens in college sports and yet Cal took the fall and protected the players from criticism. That's life in coaching.
I get your enthusiasm for Hardaway and for your sake I hope he's all that he's been proclaimed to be. Just think a lot of fans simply want to see it happen and not be told it's inevitable. Some of these media guys want it to happen and have their own agendas and reasons for it--with Wiseman recruitment it's far more anti Calipari then it is pro Memphis. Good luck to you, but I guess I'm curious why you'd come to a UK board to trash their program, coach, and fans when you have such a great program about to take off? Think there would be plenty of sites/discussion and fans to talk hoops/recruiting with then to come to another site to push some agenda and get sensitive when fans don't share your take?
So you want to bash his work at Kentucky while leaving out the fact that he's coaching in a system that has guys on campus from June-April and new crop comes in the following June. I'd argue his success rate with that type of approach to building a roster/with the pressure of the job he's holding is quite high. If this was 1980's to mid 2000's I see your criticism as being more valid but in a 1 and done format for selecting a champion, things happen. You know this from seeing what Villanova did in Lexington in '85 as a Gtown fan I was praying Memphis would win that game so Hoyas could go back to back and knowing how tough Nova played them during Ewing era. He's won a NC in 2 NC games, been to 4 Final Fours, 6 Elite 8's, and only missed NCAA's in '13 when Noel was out with torn ACL. The UConn team he lost to was undefeated outside of conference play in '11, and like they had in '14 had veteran guards. If you want to be critical, I'd say '15 semifinal was lost due to coaching decisions against Wisconsin, and should've had his 2nd title against them, but 38-1 isn't anything to sniff at either.
If you think players don't develop at UK under their staff, you are a hater. The material is there, but you have to get them to not only work on aspects of their game that aren't strong but doing so while incorporating it into a team concept and sacrificing personal stats to get better and to win. How many coaches using the approach Calipari has have done it better or at a rate you can justify bashing his coaching with the approach?
In the my lifetime, I've seen Duke and UNC win 5 titles, UK and UConn 4, Indiana and UCLA win 3, Villanova, Florida, Michigan St, Louisville (* for my BBN friends) and Kansas 2, Just turned 43, so that's 11 programs making up 34 of the 43 titles during a span. Out of that group, Kentucky in '12 and Duke in '15 won with 1 and done core--but both had key veterans (Darius Miller, Doron Lamb, Terrence Jones) (Matt Jones, Quinn Cook, Amile Jefferson, Plumlee part 100) to give minutes. So 2 out of 43 champs were built with a strong emphasis on 1 and done players.
Now what has Memphis done in that same span? Should've won in '08, and who was coaching? Did he miss the FT's? Did he have as talented of a team as Kansas? Looking at NBA rosters I'd say no, so it wasn't talent that came up short, it was guys not executing which happens in college sports and yet Cal took the fall and protected the players from criticism. That's life in coaching.
I get your enthusiasm for Hardaway and for your sake I hope he's all that he's been proclaimed to be. Just think a lot of fans simply want to see it happen and not be told it's inevitable. Some of these media guys want it to happen and have their own agendas and reasons for it--with Wiseman recruitment it's far more anti Calipari then it is pro Memphis. Good luck to you, but I guess I'm curious why you'd come to a UK board to trash their program, coach, and fans when you have such a great program about to take off? Think there would be plenty of sites/discussion and fans to talk hoops/recruiting with then to come to another site to push some agenda and get sensitive when fans don't share your take?
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