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Barnhart Discusses UK's Tourney Seeding and Rooferees

KYtotheCore

KYtotheCore

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Jan 5, 2010
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Portions of the article pasted here:

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Edit: Some of Tipton's article was here, but somehow got replaced with the link. I don't want to give him hits so I removed it altogether. It's at Herald-Leader if anyone wants to follow up on it.
 
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Make it an exact science. You don't need a committee anymore. Any time you introduce humans, you introduce bias.

That being said.........a 2 seed was entirely fair. The south was our natural region. That also was entirely fair.

It was more about the other teams in that region Ie. Wichita St a 10
 
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The_Answer1313 said:
Make it an exact science. You don't need a committee anymore. Any time you introduce humans, you introduce bias.

That being said.........a 2 seed was entirely fair. The south was our natural region. That also was entirely fair.

It was more about the other teams in that region Ie. Wichita St a 10
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They should try to avoid rematches if possible. It should be added as a rule.
 
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BoNicholas said:
Barnhart wants to be on every committee he can to make himself feel important. He's saying what he needs to say to do that. He is a disaster for fans as an AD. It will be a great day for UK sports fans when he leaves.
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It's clear that Mitch isn't a Kentucky fan. He is a politician. Always campaigning for his next job. Just look at that fake grin that's always on his face.

What he said plays well with any other university that might want to hire him. It doesn't work at Kentucky because no one here likes him or trusts him.

I get that h was getting some heat from the national press to make these statements, but come on Mitch. Don't throw your fans under the bus.
 
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Yeah, big shocker from Mitch B with those comments. He is such a pansy-go-with-the-flow spineless non-entity of an AD. Just awful - completely and utterly tone deaf in regard to his constituency and the influence and power he could wield if he chose to, considering the program at the school he works for. No wonder Cal can't stand him.

And Don Rutledge?? Are you ****ing kidding me? Lol. I presume, without looking, that this is a Tipton article. What a joke.
 
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the nail at the foul line said:
Our 3 seed we already had played, we had not played the other 3. We had played 2 1 seeds. Gonzaga and Arizona the same. It is not that hard.
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It is tho when you wanna give preference to location for the higher ranked teams on a seed line and you want to keep conference teams away from one another. The other 3 seeds were Baylor, FSU, and Oregon. I don't think it would be fair to move Oregon south when they were rated higher on the seed line than UCLA was. And you can't put FSU in the South with UNC being there.

Same thing with the 1 seed. Would it be fair to move UNC out of their natural region just because they played UK.

It's actually in the rules that they do try to avoid non conference rematches until the second round but it gets harder and harder the further you go down to avoid those things.
 
My only gripe is that the NCAA Committee needs to set up criteria in an order of importance. And not change it every year to fit their agenda. Use the S curve. If UK goes out West so be it. At least it will be fair.
 
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UKGrad93 said:
I get that h was getting some heat from the national press to make these statements, but come on Mitch. Don't throw your fans under the bus.
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Mitch, if they made death threats, throw'em under the bus. Run over them a few times. Assist the authorities with finding them however you can. Make sure they are punished as fully as the law allows. We don't need slime like that in the fan base.

Mitch was very measured in his comments about the fan base.
 
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If I knew Mitch was working behind the scenes for what was in the best interests of UK, I would have no problem with what he says publicly. However, from Mitch's past behavior and record, I have ZERO confidence that he EVER puts UK above the NCAA's best interests.

He has shown with his past comments that he feels like UK fans are just a bunch of "microwave society" complainers.

I want an AD that stands up for every UK program when it comes to ANY slight we might receive from the NCAA and it's corrupt, hypocritical system!! That includes rogue Referees that have an agenda against our coach and team!!!

COME ON MITCH!!!
 
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BoNicholas said:
Barnhart wants to be on every committee he can to make himself feel important. He's saying what he needs to say to do that. He is a disaster for fans as an AD. It will be a great day for UK sports fans when he leaves.
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Let's see:

Men's BB #5 nationally and elite 8 or better almost every year
FB competing for SEC East
Baseball #8 nationally
W BB Sweet 16 and #4 seed
W Track and Field #5 nationally
Gymnastics #12 nationally
Softball #19 nationally
Tennis #23 nationally
M Soccer #23 nationally
Volleyball #24 nationally
W Soccer #25 nationally

Mitch is obviously an abject failure.
 
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etowncatfan said:
My only gripe is that the NCAA Committee needs to set up criteria in an order of importance. And not change it every year to fit their agenda. Use the S curve. If UK goes out West so be it. At least it will be fair.
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I don't think this really solves anything tho. Does anyone really know who was the 5th best team this season (hence highest 2)? Does anyone really know who the 8th best team was (lowest 2)?

The first problem is teams aren't drastically different than one another. There will never be a consensus.

Going S Curve would only work if the committee accurately ranked teams 1 through 68. That's impossible to do IMO.

The second problem is it goes against everything that the teams actually voted for and wanted. The NCAA asked teams about this years ago and the majority voted for location over balance of regions. ADs would rather their teams play close to home so their fans can go to the games. It's less of an issue for UK as our fans travel anywhere. But the majority of schools want to be placed closer to home and will deal with the imbalance as a result of it.

The best thing that can be done is go to a system that takes an aggregate of computers, human polls etc etc and seed 1 to 68. Your still going to get imbalance obviously since you're placing teams based on location, but if you are at least accurate in where teams should be seeded, it's the best they can do. So the weakest 1, weakest 2, weakest 3 etc etc can all go West and yes the West will be the weakest but if they at least seed properly, it wouldn't be a huge deal IMO
 
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]Let's see:

Men's BB #5 nationally and elite 8 or better almost every year (because he did what fans wanted the 1st time after an inexcusable hire of a known drunk with no contract.)
FB competing for SEC East (don't make me laugh, but after he underfunded football for 10 years to build the programs below and the fans revolted. )
Baseball #8 nationally (who gives a shit)
W BB Sweet 16 and #4 seed (programs a disaster with over paid coach but, who gives a shit)
W Track and Field #5 nationally (who gives a shit)
Gymnastics #12 nationally (who gives a shit)
Softball #19 nationally (who gives a shit)
Tennis #23 nationally (who gives a shit)
M Soccer #23 nationally (who gives a shit)
Volleyball #24 nationally (who gives a shit)
W Soccer #25 nationally (who gives a shit)

Mitch is obviously an abject failure.

And I'll add, perception of the UK fan base is at an all time low. I noticed you only listed the programs where we are good? How about listing them all?
 
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UKGrad87 said:
Let's see:

Men's BB #5 nationally and elite 8 or better almost every year
FB competing for SEC East
Baseball #8 nationally
W BB Sweet 16 and #4 seed
W Track and Field #5 nationally
Gymnastics #12 nationally
Softball #19 nationally
Tennis #23 nationally
M Soccer #23 nationally
Volleyball #24 nationally
W Soccer #25 nationally

Mitch is obviously an abject failure.
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Women's track and field is actually #2 in the nation this week. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
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The_Answer1313 said:
Make it an exact science. You don't need a committee anymore. Any time you introduce humans, you introduce bias.

That being said.........a 2 seed was entirely fair. The south was our natural region. That also was entirely fair.

It was more about the other teams in that region Ie. Wichita St a 10
Click to expand...
The belief that computers do not carry bias is an illusion. Humans program them. Humans choose which factors to include in formulating an index. Humans choose which of those factors will carry the most weight. Curiously, did the advance metrics see USCjr hang 65 of Duke in the second half?
 
UCLA and Wichita in the South made zero sense. Give us Baylor (which made more sense imo) and VCU as our 10 and i wouldnt complain. Regional seeding only gets so far before the start throwing teams where they want them.
 
For me personally it is stupid to make threats against the ref. For all you idiots that don't know any better this stuff is traceable. Secondly.......at the end of the day this is a damn game! I always wonder in these instances is how many of those threats are made because of betting?
 
etowncatfan said:
My only gripe is that the NCAA Committee needs to set up criteria in an order of importance. And not change it every year to fit their agenda. Use the S curve. If UK goes out West so be it. At least it will be fair.
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Georgraphy should never be the main issue. For instance, in 1997, we got sent out west to San Jose as the one seed. Didn't care. Make the brackets more even. It makes no sense that Gonzaga got one of the easiest regions while the right side was loaded.
 
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awf said:
For me personally it is stupid to make threats against the ref. For all you idiots that don't know any better this stuff is traceable. Secondly.......at the end of the day this is a damn game! I always wonder in these instances is how many of those threats are made because of betting?
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Next thing you're going to tell me is that it's inappropriate to assault referees in pee-wee ball?
 
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UKGrad87 said:
Let's see:

Men's BB #5 nationally and elite 8 or better almost every year
FB competing for SEC East
Baseball #8 nationally
W BB Sweet 16 and #4 seed
W Track and Field #5 nationally
Gymnastics #12 nationally
Softball #19 nationally
Tennis #23 nationally
M Soccer #23 nationally
Volleyball #24 nationally
W Soccer #25 nationally

Mitch is obviously an abject failure.
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But we had to play tough teams in the tournament! Who has to earn a title? FAR Mitch.
 
Committee treated us fairly? Why would he say that? Wichita St, UCLA, NC, Kansas, if not upset..... to make it to the championship game. Easy to see they aren't going to worry what Barnhart thinks about their secret messing over Kentucky when he isn't in the room. Has he ever stood up for us when we was wronged?
 
bluinbville said:
The belief that computers do not carry bias is an illusion. Humans program them. Humans choose which factors to include in formulating an index. Humans choose which of those factors will carry the most weight. Curiously, did the advance metrics see USCjr hang 65 of Duke in the second half?
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So you believe that people design their own systems with their own bias? Sure they choose their weights but for the majority of them I highly doubt they sit there saying "well I like Team A and they are good at this aspect so lets weigh this more"......the weights are normally based on evidence on what's been important in the past.

Actually the computers had Duke winning 71-67. That's equal to having them win 66% of the time. Also means USCjr had a 34%. Also, it's sports. There's luck involved. There's a certain limit to the accuracy any system whether that's human or computer can provide.

So while they didn't predict USC to win the game or hang 65 on them, it's not as if it was impossible for USC to win. They gave them alot better a chance than most humans did.
 
UKGrad87 said:
Let's see:

Men's BB #5 nationally and elite 8 or better almost every year
FB competing for SEC East
Baseball #8 nationally
W BB Sweet 16 and #4 seed
W Track and Field #5 nationally
Gymnastics #12 nationally
Softball #19 nationally
Tennis #23 nationally
M Soccer #23 nationally
Volleyball #24 nationally
W Soccer #25 nationally

Mitch is obviously an abject failure.
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Men's Basketball - Barnhart has absolutely nothing to do with our basketball program. If you want to give him credit for when he was involved, see Billy G's 2 years.

Football - Everyone was calling for Stoops head at the beginning of the year. Let's see how the next 2-3 seasons go with Stoops before crediting Barnhart with a success.

Baseball - Cool.

Everything else - Not money makers, and nobody really cares all that much. Kentucky is a basketball school first, and has a loyal football fan base. I'm glad those other programs are doing well, and I will credit Barnhart with building up our water polo and chess teams. The two programs that really matter though, I think Barnhart has been a failure. I also think Barnhart cares a lot more about his personal ambitions than the University of Kentucky.
 
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BlueRunner11 said:
Prob get bashed for this....but I think a small part of him likes seeing Cal struggle a bit and as long as we have somewhere successful seasons that he can add to his resume he's cool with it not being everything it could be. He would prob love to have his own puppet coaching the bball team.
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He would probably love to take some credit for the bball team
 
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