Article: Herro and the rapidly diminishing value of one-way players

[Smashcat]

"The league as a whole has become really skeptical of these one-way guys," an Eastern Conference scout told CBS Sports. "Everyone thinks in terms of the playoffs now. It used to be, if you could score 20 points, you were a dude. No questions asked. But now, if you have a weakness, if you can't hold your own on the defensive end, unless you're a franchise guy, you're going to get played off the court."

NBA trade rumors: Tyler Herro and the rapidly diminishing value of one-way players

Herro's game is under the microscope as the potential centerpiece of a Damian Lillard trade

www.cbssports.com

 

[UK-chulo]

Fortunately for Herro, the opposing piece in this trade also plays no defense.

 

[YardCat]

But he is a bucket, he won’t be unemployed very long.

 

[Blueaz]

same shit used to be said (mostly wrongly) about Booker...
and that mostly false narrative still gets mis-told, even though he has been rated as a good to great defender last three years.
Herro is still very young, to expect "old man defense" is just stupid at this point

 

[IL Wildcat]

I think Herro just needs to hit the weight room and get stronger. He has the ability to play defense, he is just usually thinking about his offense. I don't have any doubt, if it's defense teams want, Herro will step it up. I'd say, generally speaking, the league has become much more defensive minded. Back in the day (and not that long ago, really), teams relied on outscoring people. Ultimately, that isn't going anywhere, in my opinion. It may change in the playoffs, but will folks be entertained by games in the 80s? Not likely. Selling tickets and getting sponsors is still very important. People want to see shots and makes, points being scored. So, Herro will be fine in the long term.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Not buying it. Plenty of spots for guys that can get their own. Just as many spots, probably more, than D only guys

 

[fadkins82476]

Contrary to popular belief, offense is definitely more important than defense.

 

[mcnicKY91]

I think Herro just needs to hit the weight room and get stronger. He has the ability to play defense, he is just usually thinking about his offense. I don't have any doubt, if it's defense teams want, Herro will step it up. I'd say, generally speaking, the league has become much more defensive minded. Back in the day (and not that long ago, really), teams relied on outscoring people. Ultimately, that isn't going anywhere, in my opinion. It may change in the playoffs, but will folks be entertained by games in the 80s? Not likely. Selling tickets and getting sponsors is still very important. People want to see shots and makes, points being scored. So, Herro will be fine in the long term.

Crazy to see how quickly the NBA game has changed. I was looking back at the 2010 NBA Finals between the Lakers and Celtics. Majority of games were in the 80s/90s. Heck, the Celtics only scored 67 pts in game 6, and the final in game 7 was 83-79.

And these games are being played by some of the best to ever lace 'em up: Kobe, Pao, KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen...absolutely crazy how the 3pt shot has become so vital in the league.

I personally am not a fan of the current style of play. Very monotonous...either shoot a three off a drive and kick/pick and roll, throw a lob to your big man, or take it yourself to the hoop and finish/draw contact or shoot a step back 3. Literally the same every possession. Pretty crazy to say the least.

With how high scoring the league has become and lack of contact allowed, not sure if lack of defense or just a ridiculous improvement in skilled shooting is to blame.

 

[DraftCat]

Herro will always have a spot... the only question is he on a rebuilding team or contender.

He either needs to increase his scoring making him a #1 or #2 or he needs to improve his defense. If he does neither he's going to be the Kyle Kuzma of the Wizards.

 

[Dead Cat Bounce]

Seems like *every* off-season, someone talks smack about Herro or suggests he should be traded.

 

[shaudyshaud]

Yeah I have to disagree with this . Plenty of one way guys are getting paid . Herro still could have a good role on a team

 

[UK90]

"The league as a whole has become really skeptical of these one-way guys," an Eastern Conference scout told CBS Sports. "Everyone thinks in terms of the playoffs now. It used to be, if you could score 20 points, you were a dude. No questions asked. But now, if you have a weakness, if you can't hold your own on the defensive end, unless you're a franchise guy, you're going to get played off the court."

NBA trade rumors: Tyler Herro and the rapidly diminishing value of one-way players

Herro's game is under the microscope as the potential centerpiece of a Damian Lillard trade

www.cbssports.com

Fortunately for James Harden, it wasn’t until after he pocketed well over a quarter-billion in salary that the league became “skeptical of these one-way guys.”

 

[UKBB4Ever]

"The league as a whole has become really skeptical of these one-way guys," an Eastern Conference scout told CBS Sports. "Everyone thinks in terms of the playoffs now. It used to be, if you could score 20 points, you were a dude. No questions asked. But now, if you have a weakness, if you can't hold your own on the defensive end, unless you're a franchise guy, you're going to get played off the court."

NBA trade rumors: Tyler Herro and the rapidly diminishing value of one-way players

Herro's game is under the microscope as the potential centerpiece of a Damian Lillard trade

www.cbssports.com

Non sense. The league has always been about defense. So much so that the rules were changed to make offense easier.

Old timers like to say that LeBron couldn’t play back in the day. “Dave Cowens would knock him out”

No he wouldn’t. Cowens would foul out in 5 minutes today and be suspended half the games.

Today you have to play defense with footwork and positioning and just limit scoring as much as possible.

Easier says than done against the best offensive players in the world.

 

[BlueSince92]

Contrary to popular belief, offense is definitely more important than defense.

At least it is where big money is concerned. Because you can play both team offense and team defense. But one guy can’t put a whole team on his shoulders with defense the way he can with offense. (I mean, unless he’s Anthony Davis.)

Also, as Cameron Mills pointed out last fall, the best offensive player in the world always has an advantage over the best defensive player in the world. Because it matters a lot to both of them what the guy on offense is going to do next, but he’s the only one who knows what that will be in advance.

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

Sounds like a person who doesn't want Lillard to go to the Heat and make the trade harder for Miami by devaluing Herro.

Herro's made 9 figures now in the NBA, he's fine with whatever they say about him. He didn't pay himself. He's also with one of, if not the best run organization in the NBA right now, so they'll be the final judge of his worth to their team or if he's someone that is moveable.

 

[UkMccurdy]

This is a joke. I’m not Tyler’s biggest fan, but come on with this stuff. The NBA is FULL of one way players. The league has engineered its rules and style to promote offense at all cost. The NBA wants butts in seats and people entertained. That essentially means defense doesn’t matter. Tyler is a very good offensively player. He has very good value to the league because of that alone!

 

[NociHTTP]

Yeah, he one-wayed us out of the NCAA tournament alright. Hopefully this upcoming March guys like him will be nothing more than a distant, faded disappointment. Why is there such an obsession with the NBA on here?

 

[Fox2monk]

Crazy to see how quickly the NBA game has changed. I was looking back at the 2010 NBA Finals between the Lakers and Celtics. Majority of games were in the 80s/90s. Heck, the Celtics only scored 67 pts in game 6, and the final in game 7 was 83-79.

And these games are being played by some of the best to ever lace 'em up: Kobe, Pao, KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen...absolutely crazy how the 3pt shot has become so vital in the league.

I personally am not a fan of the current style of play. Very monotonous...either shoot a three off a drive and kick/pick and roll, throw a lob to your big man, or take it yourself to the hoop and finish/draw contact or shoot a step back 3. Literally the same every possession. Pretty crazy to say the least.

With how high scoring the league has become and lack of contact allowed, not sure if lack of defense or just a ridiculous improvement in skilled shooting is to blame.

It’s rule changes, even back then you couldn’t hand check but as you said the mid range was way more focal as were big men. Now games come down to who hits 20 3’s a game on 60+ attempts. You have 2-3 starters who approach 10 average 3’s a game. The rules continue to favor offense though. Now even flopping is called, which is good.

 

[Fox2monk]

Yeah, he one-wayed us out of the NCAA tournament alright. Hopefully this upcoming March guys like him will be nothing more than a distant, faded disappointment. Why is there such an obsession with the NBA on here?

He also saved our season in that tournament but nobody talks about that. We needed one stop as a team, we didn’t get it. Nobody remembers that game if we did. Check out 3:00 if you forgot. At least when he was here we were still playing for a final four.

 

[cats2010]

I think Herro just needs to hit the weight room and get stronger. He has the ability to play defense, he is just usually thinking about his offense. I don't have any doubt, if it's defense teams want, Herro will step it up. I'd say, generally speaking, the league has become much more defensive minded. Back in the day (and not that long ago, really), teams relied on outscoring people. Ultimately, that isn't going anywhere, in my opinion. It may change in the playoffs, but will folks be entertained by games in the 80s? Not likely. Selling tickets and getting sponsors is still very important. People want to see shots and makes, points being scored. So, Herro will be fine in the long term.

How do you reconcile that the league has become more defensive minded? League scoring average is as high as it as ever been. Obviously more 3’s been taken and made but you’re allowed to play defense to stop/contest those shots too. Few games I have happened to stumble upon and watched for a few minutes it’s nothing but open jump shot after open jump shot. It’s a shoot around on both ends of the court while keeping score of made shots.

 

[CatsnRoses]

Nearly 60 guys averaged 20 PPG in the NBA last year. With the current rules virtually anyone in the league can "get you 20."

 

[Catluv]

Non sense. The league has always been about defense. So much so that the rules were changed to make offense easier.

Old timers like to say that LeBron couldn’t play back in the day. “Dave Cowens would knock him out”

No he wouldn’t. Cowens would foul out in 5 minutes today and be suspended half the games.

Today you have to play defense with footwork and positioning and just limit scoring as much as possible.

Easier says than done against the best offensive players in the world.

Read your post you say old timers say Bron couldn’t play back in the day. Then you say Cowens would foul out now days. I’m the old days he wouldn’t be called for all those fouls. Bron against the old Pistons would be laid out a bunch of times.

 

[Tubbyfan78]

Herro is over-rated. Hes pretty good if he's hot. He's completely useless if he's not. Just like at UK.

 

[UK90]

How do you reconcile that the league has become more defensive minded? League scoring average is as high as it as ever been. Obviously more 3’s been taken and made but you’re allowed to play defense to stop/contest those shots too. Few games I have happened to stumble upon and watched for a few minutes it’s nothing but open jump shot after open jump shot. It’s a shoot around on both ends of the court while keeping score of made shots.

Rule changes have altered the way you can play defense, but they haven't made defense less important. Today you basically can only play defense with your feet. Dudes used to compensate for lack of quickness by getting physical in ways that are no longer allowed.

If you don't have lateral foot speed, you're pretty much helpless on the defensive end nowadays. As someone else mentioned, a lot of those muscular power forwards we remember from the 80s and 90s would foul out in 10 minutes if they played that way today. Hell, even some former superstars like Magic and Bird would have to re-assess ...and perhaps change positions ...under today's rules.

 

[weatherbird]

Contrary to popular belief, offense is definitely more important than defense.

It's not more important, but it is just as important. What is fading out more than anything is exactly what the article is talking about, but both ways. What is fading out is Offense only and Defense only players. Contrary to popular believe most of these guys play good defense, it's just that the offense of these guys are far beyond what the defense can stop. But you can't score 30 and let your man have 35 with almost no effort. A defense only team will eventually run into an offense they can't stop. And an offense only team will eventually have an off night. Which is why it is equally important that you be good at both.

Read your post you say old timers say Bron couldn’t play back in the day. Then you say Cowens would foul out now days. I’m the old days he wouldn’t be called for all those fouls. Bron against the old Pistons would be laid out a bunch of times.

Have you seen Lebron?? He ain't Jordan. The pistons couldn't knock him around like they did Jordan. Now Lebron might cry about the fouling, and may even quit because of it, but then again, Jordan cried on every touch too, as if people don't remember that. What makes Lebron special is exactly why the Pistons wouldn't have been able to do much with him. Lebron would likely be the same regardless of the era. His physicality is off the charts. I don't necessarily like Lebron because he is more athlete than basketball player, but it's hard to argue against what he has accomplished in his career. And I believe his career will likely come to a close sooner rather than later. I think he was holding out hope of playing with his son, but with the recent developments, it may not be an option any longer.

 

[NociHTTP]

It's not more important, but it is just as important. What is fading out more than anything is exactly what the article is talking about, but both ways. What is fading out is Offense only and Defense only players. Contrary to popular believe most of these guys play good defense, it's just that the offense of these guys are far beyond what the defense can stop. But you can't score 30 and let your man have 35 with almost no effort. A defense only team will eventually run into an offense they can't stop. And an offense only team will eventually have an off night. Which is why it is equally important that you be good at both.

Have you seen Lebron?? He ain't Jordan. The pistons couldn't knock him around like they did Jordan. Now Lebron might cry about the fouling, and may even quit because of it, but then again, Jordan cried on every touch too, as if people don't remember that. What makes Lebron special is exactly why the Pistons wouldn't have been able to do much with him. Lebron would likely be the same regardless of the era. His physicality is off the charts. I don't necessarily like Lebron because he is more athlete than basketball player, but it's hard to argue against what he has accomplished in his career. And I believe his career will likely come to a close sooner rather than later. I think he was holding out hope of playing with his son, but with the recent developments, it may not be an option any longer.

The NBA is NOTHING like it used to be. They may be able to play good defense, but they don't. Why? Because fans don't want to watch low scoring games. And if you don't think the NBA is one big fraternity (guys helping one another pad their stats), I don't know what to tell you.

 

[drew_ukfan]

Nba plays defense? Not buying it

 

[DreadLox]

Read your post you say old timers say Bron couldn’t play back in the day. Then you say Cowens would foul out now days. I’m the old days he wouldn’t be called for all those fouls. Bron against the old Pistons would be laid out a bunch of times.

James is a bigger, stronger athlete than most of those guys were. 6'9" 250? Dave Cowens was 20 lbs lighter and wasn't anything like the athlete James is. Don't let your hate for the public LeBron James blind you to the athlete.

 

[UK90]

The NBA is NOTHING like it used to be. They may be able to play good defense, but they don't. Why?

Yes, they do. In fact, usually damn good defense.

It's just a different kind of defense than you might've grown up watching. All that perimeter hand-checking and shoving guys around inside that used to be normal in the 90s is no longer allowed. Now those are fouls that get immediately whistled.

Which, frankly, is how the game was originally designed to be played.

 

[cats2010]

Rule changes have altered the way you can play defense, but they haven't made defense less important. Today you basically can only play defense with your feet. Dudes used to compensate for lack of quickness by getting physical in ways that are no longer allowed.

If you don't have lateral foot speed, you're pretty much helpless on the defensive end nowadays. As someone else mentioned, a lot of those muscular power forwards we remember from the 80s and 90s would foul out in 10 minutes if they played that way today. Hell, even some former superstars like Magic and Bird would have to re-assess ...and perhaps change positions ...under today's rules.

Don’t disagree with that at all but begs the question on how the nba has become more defensive minded. If anything it’s less defensive minded with all the restrictions. Would not be as difficult to play defense in todays game if they didn’t allow all the palming/carrying of the ball, and the travels they all get away with. Just as 80’s players would foul out in todays game, todays players would never get to attempt a shot in the 80’s with all the turnovers.

 

[UK90]

Don’t disagree with that at all but begs the question on how the nba has become more defensive minded. If anything it’s less defensive minded with all the restrictions. Would not be as difficult to play defense in todays game if they didn’t allow all the palming/carrying of the ball, and the travels they all get away with. Just as 80’s players would foul out in todays game, todays players would never get to attempt a shot in the 80’s with all the turnovers.

I agree with this. They might as well just erase palming from the rule books if they're never gonna call it. Today's players do it habitually and constantly, yet the refs just ignore it. And, yep, a TON more leeway is allowed with regard to travelling. Every game nowadays you see extra steps that would've been instantly whistled back in the 80s and 90s.

 

[Fox2monk]

James is a bigger, stronger athlete than most of those guys were. 6'9" 250? Dave Cowens was 20 lbs lighter and wasn't anything like the athlete James is. Don't let your hate for the public LeBron James blind you to the athlete.

LeBron would excel in any era, but he would have been easier to contain in the old NBA and probably would have been a target like Jordan to beat into the ground which may have cause injuries or less games played over his career. He would always be a top player though. I don’t like him but he is one of the best 5 players ever.

 

[Fox2monk]

Nba plays defense? Not buying it

They do, if you ever see a game live they switch amazingly well and fast. Just offensive players are too good most of the time.

 

[K_TIME]

Not saying Herro is as good as these guys but there are tons of guys that are mediocre to bad defensively getting money.

Steph Curry $53M
Dame Lillard $44M....he is not terrible but not above average
Luka $43M
Trae Young is abysmal defensively $43M
Kyrie Irving $40M
James Harden $34M
Jordan Poole $32M
KAT $31M
Herro $30M
Cam Johnson $27M
Kyle Kuzma $22M
Duncan Robinson $18M

I agree Herro isn't what I'd call a good defensive player....but I'd argue he's equal to better than all the dudes on this list. I don't think he's proven to be as good as any on this list offensively yet....but he's pretty young. I don't see his contract as an albatross.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Word to ya mutha.........

 

[Catluv]

James is a bigger, stronger athlete than most of those guys were. 6'9" 250? Dave Cowens was 20 lbs lighter and wasn't anything like the athlete James is. Don't let your hate for the public LeBron James blind you to the athlete.

Absolutely no hate for James but no way do guys get fouled now days like they did in the old days. The old pistons would kill folks and cry about getting called for it. What team is even anywhere as ruff as the old pistons. League is no way as dirty as it was in the old days. No way could you walk like they do now days.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Crazy to see how quickly the NBA game has changed. I was looking back at the 2010 NBA Finals between the Lakers and Celtics. Majority of games were in the 80s/90s. Heck, the Celtics only scored 67 pts in game 6, and the final in game 7 was 83-79.

And these games are being played by some of the best to ever lace 'em up: Kobe, Pao, KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen...absolutely crazy how the 3pt shot has become so vital in the league.

I personally am not a fan of the current style of play. Very monotonous...either shoot a three off a drive and kick/pick and roll, throw a lob to your big man, or take it yourself to the hoop and finish/draw contact or shoot a step back 3. Literally the same every possession. Pretty crazy to say the least.

With how high scoring the league has become and lack of contact allowed, not sure if lack of defense or just a ridiculous improvement in skilled shooting is to blame.

I’m of the opposite opinion. If I wanted to watch a football game with free throws, I would.

I like more freedom of movement and there’s more skill to outside shooting than backing your man down in the post. I found early to mid 2000s NBA to resemble Dennis Felton coached UGA teams with talented players.