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Anyone Else Tired Of Zone Defenses In College Basketball?

KyCatFan

All-American
May 7, 2002
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It seems like more and more games are turning into ugly games because of teams surrounding the paint area and then playing rugby if the ball gets in there. Would widening the lane improve the play in the paint? Of course that would benefit teams like us.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Absolutely hate it. The NCAA needs to get rid of it. It'll just make them more money.

More fans will be attracted due to more aesthetic offenses.
 
I totally disagree. You should be able to play whatever defense you want, as long as the officiating is consistent with what's a foul.

What I'm sick of (and not just UK), is offenses being unable to beat an average 2-3 zone defense. If you have the right game plan, superior athletes and better talent, you should absolutely dominate a zone. IMO, UK should crush a zone on the boards game in and game out, even if their shooting and ball movement isn't good.
 
Not one bit. The excitement with college basketball is strategy which includes zone defenses.
 
Speaking of zone, looks like Coach K is going to try and use one to keep his season from falling apart.

And if the zone gets outlawed, then Boeheim becomes a D2 level coach.
 
The zone only works when a team is void of perimeter scorers. If a team is properly balanced with post scorers and perimeter scorers, the zone defense shouldn't be any more effective than man-to-man.
 
its garbage basketball...that usually results in a rock fight. last night watch some HS basketball, high level teams, both played zone. its pathetic....no skill is developed.

instead of coaching the game and developing players....its a hack-a-thon, slow the game down as much as possible because coaches dont want to be exposed and end up fired.

eliminate zone, cut the shot clock to 28 seconds, push the 3 point line back, and bring back freedom of movement.
 
Originally posted by KA4Prez:
I totally disagree. You should be able to play whatever defense you want, as long as the officiating is consistent with what's a foul.

What I'm sick of (and not just UK), is offenses being unable to beat an average 2-3 zone defense. If you have the right game plan, superior athletes and better talent, you should absolutely dominate a zone. IMO, UK should crush a zone on the boards game in and game out, even if their shooting and ball movement isn't good.
Thank you.

Learn to shoot.
 
Originally posted by LmdCat:
The zone only works when a team is void of perimeter scorers. If a team is properly balanced with post scorers and perimeter scorers, the zone defense shouldn't be any more effective than man-to-man.
Actually with very skilled players, a zone is far less effective than man to man, that's why zones don't work in the league. Zones work against college teams because of lack of skill , bigs can't shoot, point guards aren't seasoned, etc...
 
I have never understood what people find appealing about any game where strategy is limited and the outcome of the game is pretty much known going in based on who has the best athletes. To me it doesn't get any more boring than that. The NBA is about as boring as watching grass grow. A coach should have options on how to overcome superior talent. It is what makes any contest interesting. Zone should never be outlawed. Scoring isn't the end all be all in athletics.
 
I get ripped every time I point out that we struggle against a zone defense. Every team we have had since cal got here does. The 2012 team wasn't as bad because we had an experienced ball handler in Darius miller.
it isn't hard to break down either. 2 dribbles toward the middle of zone n dish to wing, and repeat until someone gets a open look
 
Originally posted by KyCatFan:
It seems like more and more games are turning into ugly games because of teams surrounding the paint area and then playing rugby if the ball gets in there. Would widening the lane improve the play in the paint? Of course that would benefit teams like us.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
No, what I'm tired of is all the gnat-attention spanned fans trying to turn college basketball into whatever that detritus is that they play in the NBA.
 
Absolutely not. That would be just another step in turning the college game into a clone of NBA basketball which I absolutely hate.

I know it likely would benefit Uk but I still do not want it because as I said I do not want college basketball to become a clone of the NBA.
 
The number of teams that play zone today is smaller than it was in the 80s. Go back and watch a game from the 80s. Everybody besides Duke, Georgetown, Indiana and UNC played some form of it. Everybody.
 
College and the NBA need to be different , I don't want the option to disappear in football because it eats up clock or isn't what the NFL does . I like to see If a team can beat a zone with passing or shooting , zones today exploit youth but it makes college what it is . The slapping and hacking is what needs to stop and it stiffles offensive play by gaining an illegal advantage .

Refs could curb this type of play and bring scoring back by limiting the amount of contact , some coaches push the limits of fair play to the edge and put the onus on refs to make a call to which they usually don't . Fix the way games are officiated and leave strategy in the game .
 
Originally posted by Xception:
College and the NBA need to be different , I don't want the option to disappear in football because it eats up clock or isn't what the NFL does . I like to see If a team can beat a zone with passing or shooting , zones today exploit youth but it makes college what it is . The slapping and hacking is what needs to stop and it stiffles offensive play by gaining an illegal advantage .

Refs could curb this type of play and bring scoring back by limiting the amount of contact , some coaches push the limits of fair play to the edge and put the onus on refs to make a call to which they usually don't . Fix the way games are officiated and leave strategy in the game .
the option doesnt make football crap. zone in college, slowing the pace of play to a crawl, robbing any flow of the game does
 
Originally posted by BostonCat2001:
Originally posted by Xception:
College and the NBA need to be different , I don't want the option to disappear in football because it eats up clock or isn't what the NFL does . I like to see If a team can beat a zone with passing or shooting , zones today exploit youth but it makes college what it is . The slapping and hacking is what needs to stop and it stiffles offensive play by gaining an illegal advantage .

Refs could curb this type of play and bring scoring back by limiting the amount of contact , some coaches push the limits of fair play to the edge and put the onus on refs to make a call to which they usually don't . Fix the way games are officiated and leave strategy in the game .
the option doesnt make football crap. zone in college, slowing the pace of play to a crawl, robbing any flow of the game does
I debated putting that in there because I knew it would be the only comment that could give any rebuttal some traction , fact is the zone has been around forever and it didn't hurt the game in the past . So that should tell you that it's the hacking and slapping that's the issue instead of zones .
 
Originally posted by Lob2Davis:
Originally posted by KyCatFan:
It seems like more and more games are turning into ugly games because of teams surrounding the paint area and then playing rugby if the ball gets in there. Would widening the lane improve the play in the paint? Of course that would benefit teams like us.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
No, what I'm tired of is all the gnat-attention spanned fans trying to turn college basketball into whatever that detritus is that they play in the NBA.
And what people with little knowledge don't seem to understand is that college basketball now is NOTHING like it was historically. It's a completely different game.

With the exception of last season, when scoring rose because of the early-season emphasis on freedom of movement, college basketball scoring is at its lowest point in over 60 years, and has been at that level for at least the last 5 years. Lower than the stall-ball era of the early 80's, lower than any time since the very early 50's. FG attempts are at an all-time low. FT attempts (and fouls called) are at an all-time low. And all of that is in spite of the extra points you get for 3 point shots, which artificially inflates scores in comparison to those before the 3 point line.

If the game that is being played now has almost no relationship stylistically to what came before it, at what point do the things that allegedly separate it from the NBA cease to matter? I say it's when, as another poster accurately described it in another thread, the game devolves into something that looks like "pigs fighting in the mud".

It's not like this is unprecedented in sports. Coaches and players find ways to gain an edge. Baseball in the late 60's saw pitchers dominate to a ridiculous degree. The rules changed. Football in the 70's saw passing become incredibly difficult. The rules changed. College basketball in the early to mid 80's saw stall tactics make the game unbearable to watch. The rules changed. Something needs to change in college basketball now, because it's not even close to the game it used to be.

This post was edited on 1/18 3:00 AM by mj2k10
 
I don't think anything should be outright outlawed, but I do think some rules need to be changed to make certain play styles obsolete. Slowing the game down as much as possible makes the game boring, and it isn't fun to watch. I understand why some people do it, since it is the only way they can compete, but it's why the majority of the nation doesn't pay attention to the sport until March. Emphasis needs to be put on limiting contact and preventing teams from playing stall ball. Beating a zone isn't as hard as people on here make it out to be. We struggle with it sometimes because our teams are always young. As you are seeing though, we are starting to figure it out.
 
Originally posted by KyCatFan:
It seems like more and more games are turning into ugly games because of teams surrounding the paint area and then playing rugby if the ball gets in there. Would widening the lane improve the play in the paint? Of course that would benefit teams like us.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
A zone is the equalizer in college basketball and it adds to the game instead of hurting basketball. Football has been playing a zone for yrs.
 
If you want to improve college basketball find a way to keep the BS NBA from robbing the college game of it best players every year.

The reason that college teams struggle against the zone defenses is the fact that the college teams must play too many young inexperience players that are used to playing the street type ball in AAU and they find it difficult to adjust quickly to the college game. Team work is needed to attack a zone much more so than when attacking a man on man. This is why that UK who always has very talented young players is always going to get a steady diet of zone defenses.

The real question here is if the zone defenses are all that great. Why does Calipari and most of the coaches of most of the best college teams seldom use them? The reason IMO is that zones are only effective if you do not have shooters and must live on the inside game. I say why reward teams that are flawed by eliminating zone defenses that exposes their flaw.
 
Originally posted by mj2k10:
Originally posted by Lob2Davis:
Originally posted by KyCatFan:
It seems like more and more games are turning into ugly games because of teams surrounding the paint area and then playing rugby if the ball gets in there. Would widening the lane improve the play in the paint? Of course that would benefit teams like us.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
No, what I'm tired of is all the gnat-attention spanned fans trying to turn college basketball into whatever that detritus is that they play in the NBA.
And what people with little knowledge don't seem to understand is that college basketball now is NOTHING like it was historically. It's a completely different game.

With the exception of last season, when scoring rose because of the early-season emphasis on freedom of movement, college basketball scoring is at its lowest point in over 60 years, and has been at that level for at least the last 5 years. Lower than the stall-ball era of the early 80's, lower than any time since the very early 50's. FG attempts are at an all-time low. FT attempts (and fouls called) are at an all-time low. And all of that is in spite of the extra points you get for 3 point shots, which artificially inflates scores in comparison to those before the 3 point line.

If the game that is being played now has almost no relationship stylistically to what came before it, at what point do the things that allegedly separate it from the NBA cease to matter? I say it's when, as another poster accurately described it in another thread, the game devolves into something that looks like "pigs fighting in the mud".

It's not like this is unprecedented in sports. Coaches and players find ways to gain an edge. Baseball in the late 60's saw pitchers dominate to a ridiculous degree. The rules changed. Football in the 70's saw passing become incredibly difficult. The rules changed. College basketball in the early to mid 80's saw stall tactics make the game unbearable to watch. The rules changed. Something needs to change in college basketball now, because it's not even close to the game it used to be.

This post was edited on 1/18 3:00 AM by mj2k10
@mj2k : while I agree with everything you've said here (well said, well done) I return to the original post's question about zone defenses...

No, I don't mind zone defenses as it is a part of strategy coaches can use, we don't need to change the rules disallowing zone defenses. The problem is in what mj2k has pointed out. And why is this the case?

It's very simple. It lies in the officiating.

Statistically, the same number of fouls ARE being called. It's virtually the same as in years past. The problem is that coaches have realized that they can have their lesser talented teams hack and grab and slap and foul and the refs will not call everything that needs to be called. So it mucks the game up, and hence, we have a huge dropoff in offensive production.

If the officials called the games properly, all this unnecessary, over the top (and illegal) contact would end. It would be a painful process to get the game back to a more free flowing sport, but it would eventually get thru to coaches and players. The flopping? Let's end it. All that contact away from the ball on screens and rubs? let's clean that up while we're at it.

They really need to reign in the overly physical play and get the message across, imo.
 
Shorter shot clock. Defensive 3-seconds. Larger "charge" arc.

Nobody is saying you can't play zone if you really want. Just make it harder.
 
I am tired of it. Really helps lesser talented teams. I'll admit I was tickled to see Duke throw one at UL though. But it's just awful watching two mediocre teams playing a game in the 40s or 50s.


Cal doesn't play it because he knows the NBA teams don't and he wants his players to be able to play NBA-level man defense. Drives me crazy sometimes but I understand it.
 
Originally posted by runt#69:

Originally posted by mj2k10:
Originally posted by Lob2Davis:
Originally posted by KyCatFan:
It seems like more and more games are turning into ugly games because of teams surrounding the paint area and then playing rugby if the ball gets in there. Would widening the lane improve the play in the paint? Of course that would benefit teams like us.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
No, what I'm tired of is all the gnat-attention spanned fans trying to turn college basketball into whatever that detritus is that they play in the NBA.
And what people with little knowledge don't seem to understand is that college basketball now is NOTHING like it was historically. It's a completely different game.

With the exception of last season, when scoring rose because of the early-season emphasis on freedom of movement, college basketball scoring is at its lowest point in over 60 years, and has been at that level for at least the last 5 years. Lower than the stall-ball era of the early 80's, lower than any time since the very early 50's. FG attempts are at an all-time low. FT attempts (and fouls called) are at an all-time low. And all of that is in spite of the extra points you get for 3 point shots, which artificially inflates scores in comparison to those before the 3 point line.

If the game that is being played now has almost no relationship stylistically to what came before it, at what point do the things that allegedly separate it from the NBA cease to matter? I say it's when, as another poster accurately described it in another thread, the game devolves into something that looks like "pigs fighting in the mud".

It's not like this is unprecedented in sports. Coaches and players find ways to gain an edge. Baseball in the late 60's saw pitchers dominate to a ridiculous degree. The rules changed. Football in the 70's saw passing become incredibly difficult. The rules changed. College basketball in the early to mid 80's saw stall tactics make the game unbearable to watch. The rules changed. Something needs to change in college basketball now, because it's not even close to the game it used to be.

This post was edited on 1/18 3:00 AM by mj2k10
@mj2k : while I agree with everything you've said here (well said, well done) I return to the original post's question about zone defenses...

No, I don't mind zone defenses as it is a part of strategy coaches can use, we don't need to change the rules disallowing zone defenses. The problem is in what mj2k has pointed out. And why is this the case?

It's very simple. It lies in the officiating.

Statistically, the same number of fouls ARE being called. It's virtually the same as in years past. The problem is that coaches have realized that they can have their lesser talented teams hack and grab and slap and foul and the refs will not call everything that needs to be called. So it mucks the game up, and hence, we have a huge dropoff in offensive production.

If the officials called the games properly, all this unnecessary, over the top (and illegal) contact would end. It would be a painful process to get the game back to a more free flowing sport, but it would eventually get thru to coaches and players. The flopping? Let's end it. All that contact away from the ball on screens and rubs? let's clean that up while we're at it.

They really need to reign in the overly physical play and get the message across, imo.
I agree with this (almost) completely.

The only thing I'll disagree with is that the same number of fouls are being called. The difference is small, but when I say fouls are at an all-time low, I'm basing that on the NCAA's own stats. The number of FT's attempted per team, per game, was the lowest ever recorded in 12-13 (the last year the NCAA has added to their stats' page). See here.

But your point is dead-on. The biggest influence in terms of how the game is played is, by a longshot, how the game is officiated. Coaches and players push the envelope, at all times, and the pressure on the refs almost always tends to be in the direction of "call less, let them play". This almost invariably helps the defense, and when it goes too far (like I think it has in college basketball), it throws the game out of whack. People can talk about great defense all they want, but the fact is that it's easy to play D when you can hang all over the team trying to play offense.
 
I wasn't saying to get rid of them. I just think there needs to be a change in the way they are allowed to use it. Games in the 50's all the time is getting boring. In football, the game has evolved to high scoring games that are more entertaining to watch. A lot better than a 10-7 game in my opinion. I am hoping for a change to college basketball that has an effect on the game like that. Games in the 70's and 80's are more entertaining than the 50's and 60's.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Zone Defense? According to ESPN; isn't that the new thing invented by Coach K, yesterday to beat the Woodpeckers?
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NO! Zone defenses are part of the game and is an equalizer that allows for more parity in college basketball. Everyone wo hates the zone say it allows lesser teams a chance to win. Hello, maybe a team that is able to play a zone defense effectively enough to beat a "much more Talented team", is the more talented team. Otherwise just give the higher ranked team the W and save on the light bill!
 
Stupid suggestion in my opinion. Zone defenses are part of the game of basketball. If we do away with zone defenses, let's go ahead and do away with the full court press because that causes teams to throw the ball away which is also bad for the game. Let's also do away with fast breaks and let the other team set their defense, that would make the game more fair. If coach A plays a zone it is up to coach B to figure it out. If coach A plays zone because the team coached by coach B does not have good shooters, advantage coach A. Then it is up to coach B to recruit or develop good shooters.
 
Originally posted by cats#1again:
I get ripped every time I point out that we struggle against a zone defense. Every team we have had since cal got here does. The 2012 team wasn't as bad because we had an experienced ball handler in Darius miller.
it isn't hard to break down either. 2 dribbles toward the middle of zone n dish to wing, and repeat until someone gets a open look
you'll get ripped again because we've seen zone almost all year long and done pretty well. Just look at how we tore up Bama's zone yesterday and they actually had more success using M2M against us.
 
Absolutely. Make outside shots and that will take care of a zone. Amazing how many college players can't make an open 20 footer.
 
Id love to see college basketball morphed into more of an NBA like version of basketball. It would put more emphasis on having more skilled players
 
Originally posted by C1180:

Absolutely not. That would be just another step in turning the college game into a clone of NBA basketball which I absolutely hate.

I know it likely would benefit Uk but I still do not want it because as I said I do not want college basketball to become a clone of the NBA.
Agree. It takes medication to watch the NBA, and I don't want to have to stop watching college games because of the cloned boredom.
 
Originally posted by Hjack:
Originally posted by C1180:

Absolutely not. That would be just another step in turning the college game into a clone of NBA basketball which I absolutely hate.

I know it likely would benefit Uk but I still do not want it because as I said I do not want college basketball to become a clone of the NBA.
Agree. It takes medication to watch the NBA, and I don't want to have to stop watching college games because of the cloned boredom.
yeah....cause all those games in the 40s, 50s, and 60s is just fannnnntastic. ncaa basketball....where fans watching a guy take 9 seconds to dribble the ball up the court, reverse the ball endlessly and needlessly to run some set play to validate some great "X's and O's" which essentially turns into a high ball screen...exactly what the NBA runs, just 20 seconds sooner.
 
Originally posted by BostonCat2001:


eliminate zone, cut the shot clock to 28 seconds, push the 3 point line back, and bring back freedom of movement.
Allow players to run without dribbling, lower the basket to 8 feet, allow on-the-fly substitutions like hockey, shrink the ball to about softball size, widen the basket opening to 6 foot diameter. Now we've got an entertaining, high scoring game!
 
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