Anyone else feel like the B12 is gonna flame out in the tourney?

[The_Answer1313]

I don't buy the idea of ranking a conference based on just the tournament. If you want to say the top teams are overrated then I may buy it but historically the sec has been garbage. Judging the whole sec on our success and florida's isn't fair. As a whole the big12 is by far the best conference, isu will be their 5-7 seed, that's very strong, especially considering they only have 10 teams. How those teams fair in the tournament will be seen but come tournament time I'm rooting for uk, not the sec

Exactly.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

End of season results may not be the whole story, but it's really all that matters, unless you are KU fan and build shrines for your conference titles. Does the fact that SEC has sucked the last few years diminish the fact that we have been to 4 of the last 5 FFs, 2 title games, and 1 title? Does it give comfort to the non-KU B-12 fans that they are year in and year out considered the best conference, when they don't have anything to show for it? Not even conference titles.

 

[Neue Regel]

End of season results may not be the whole story, but it's really all that matters, unless you are KU fan and build shrines for regular season titles. Does the fact that SEC has sucked the last few years diminish the fact that we have been to 4 of the last 5 FFs, 2 title games, and 1 title? Does it give comfort to the non-KU B-12 fans that they are year in and year out considered the best conference, when they don't have anything to show for it? Not even conference titles.

Silents I FIFY

How you been? and your point is a great one. Hell Kentucky has never needed the SEC to achieve greatness. Kentucky's national success speaks for itself. Yea maybe some other leagues have been better than the SEC, but if I'm a Kentucky fan I wouldn't give a crap. 8 National Championships and 17 Final Fours says it all.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Tks NR. Good catch. BTW, you are far too rational and amicable to be a Duke fan.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I never really understood the people that "root" for a particular conference.

I'm a UK fan. I care very little how many final fours UF goes to lol.

It's like all conference long these are the rival teams and then come tournament time I'm supposed to root for them...........because they are SEC? Yeah no thanks lol

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I don't root for them in the sense that I really care about that school, but I do find myself hoping they win some games just to give the SEC a little bit of street cred. Gets old hearing about how much the conference sucks. Depends on who the other teams are though. I would pull for some teams over an SEC team in the tourney in some circumstances. In the tourney I am more about who I want to advance in case we don't win, so they could take out one of the teams I don't want to win it all.

 

[GCASE]

I don't buy the idea of ranking a conference based on just the tournament. If you want to say the top teams are overrated then I may buy it but historically the sec has been garbage. Judging the whole sec on our success and florida's isn't fair. As a whole the big12 is by far the best conference, isu will be their 5-7 seed, that's very strong, especially considering they only have 10 teams. How those teams fair in the tournament will be seen but come tournament time I'm rooting for uk, not the sec

I know I see through my blue tinted glasses, but I think a reason Kansas's flames out of the NCAA tournament most years to teams seeded lower than them is they get so many calls from officials in the Big 12 home & away, they do not know how to adjust when the calls aren't going their way.

Kentucky on the other hand, it is questionable that we get many calls at home, as our opponent has shoot more free throws than we have. When we go on the road we get no calls, while this may hurt us during the season come tournament time our players know how to play when you are not getting any calls.

 

[ganner918]

Winners of Office Pools will sell the Big 12 and buy Tradition (UNC, UK, Michigan St).

A wide open year like this is also a good time to pick some good mid major upsets and sweet 16/elite-8 runs. Somebody in the right spot with favorable matchups could even be a Final Four pick.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

A wide open year like this is also a good time to pick some good mid major upsets and sweet 16/elite-8 runs. Somebody in the right spot with favorable matchups could even be a Final Four pick.

I can't even imagine the ESPN Tourney Challenge this year. No way the winner will have only a handful of misses. It wouldn't even shock me if no 1 seeds were in the FF. I doubt that will happen, but it just won't be shocking if it doesn't.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I know I see through my blue tinted glasses, but I think a reason Kansas's flames out of the NCAA tournament most years to teams seeded lower than them is they get so many calls from officials in the Big 12 home & away, they do not know how to adjust when the calls aren't going their way.

Kentucky on the other hand, it is questionable that we get many calls at home, as our opponent has shoot more free throws than we have. When we go on the road we get no calls, while this may hurt us during the season come tournament time our players know how to play when you are not getting any calls.

I don't believe this is the case at all.
It just happens. Teams get upset. Sometimes the best team doesn't always win

Last season they lost to Wichita St. That's a team IIRC has been wanting to play Kansas in the regular season for years and have been denied. I'm sure that played into it.
2014 - 2 seed lost in the 2nd round to Stanford (10) by 3 points
2013 - 1 seed and lost to Michigan in the Regional Semis (4) by 2 points
2012 - 2 seed and lost in the title game. So this year they did better than expected based on seeding.
2011 - 1 seed and lost in the Regional Finals to VCU (11)......by 10
2010 - 1 seed and lost in the second round to Northern Iowa by 2
2009 - 3 seed and lost to Mchigan St (2) in the regional semis......so they did as expected.
2008 - 1 seed and won the title........so as expected or better
2007 - 1 seed and lost in the regional final to UCLA (2) by 13......slightly worse than expected
2006 - 4 seed and lost first round to Bradley (13) by 3
2005 - 3 seed and lost first round to Bucknell (14) by 1

Clearly KU has underperformed in the tournament. The massive fails came in 05,06,10,14 and 15. But the games have been so close I really don't think it has anything to do with officials from in the Big 12.

 

[GCASE]

I don't believe this is the case at all.
It just happens. Teams get upset. Sometimes the best team doesn't always win

Last season they lost to Wichita St. That's a team IIRC has been wanting to play Kansas in the regular season for years and have been denied. I'm sure that played into it.
2014 - 2 seed lost in the 2nd round to Stanford (10) by 3 points
2013 - 1 seed and lost to Michigan in the Regional Semis (4) by 2 points
2012 - 2 seed and lost in the title game. So this year they did better than expected based on seeding.
2011 - 1 seed and lost in the Regional Finals to VCU (11)......by 10
2010 - 1 seed and lost in the second round to Northern Iowa by 2
2009 - 3 seed and lost to Mchigan St (2) in the regional semis......so they did as expected.
2008 - 1 seed and won the title........so as expected or better
2007 - 1 seed and lost in the regional final to UCLA (2) by 13......slightly worse than expected
2006 - 4 seed and lost first round to Bradley (13) by 3
2005 - 3 seed and lost first round to Bucknell (14) by 1

Clearly KU has underperformed in the tournament. The massive fails came in 05,06,10,14 and 15. But the games have been so close I really don't think it has anything to do with officials from in the Big 12.

I think your research proves my point exactly, how many points does Kansas get from the free throw line on average in the Big 12? With shooting fewer free throws in the tournament this could equate to why they lose close games in the tournament.

 

[kitkoodle]

I watch many big 12 games for some reason always have..but one thing that sticks out is ..they dont call as many fouls as they should..so come tourney time..it hurts them cause what they are used to getting by with..no longer works in the tourney

 

[runt#69]

If judging by history and taking past information into consideration, the Big 12 teams will indeed flame out.

.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I think your research proves my point exactly, how many points does Kansas get from the free throw line on average in the Big 12? With shooting fewer free throws in the tournament this could equate to why they lose close games in the tournament.

I don't think there's really a specific reason.

Sure they lost a bunch of close games but if I did this exercise again I'm certain they have also won a bunch of close games as well.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I watch many big 12 games for some reason always have..but one thing that sticks out is ..they dont call as many fouls as they should..so come tourney time..it hurts them cause what they are used to getting by with..no longer works in the tourney

I don't know. Here's their rank based on Free Throw Rate (FTA/FGA). Ideally I should look for overall fouls but I don't have that data.
So outta 32 conferences they rank (1st being highest FTR)
2016 = 14th
2015 = 8th
2014 = 12th
2013 = 7th
2012 = 17th
2011 = 13th
2010 = 10th
2009 = 2nd
2008 = 13th

So middle of the pack........closer to more fouls than not.

Tho if you watch SEC games since Missouri and Texas AM been added in 2013 we have ranked, 16th, 8th, 9th and 3rd this season. The SEC has seemed to call alot more fouls compared to the average conference.

 

[GCASE]

I don't know. Here's their rank based on Free Throw Rate (FTA/FGA). Ideally I should look for overall fouls but I don't have that data.
So outta 32 conferences they rank (1st being highest FTR)
2016 = 14th
2015 = 8th
2014 = 12th
2013 = 7th
2012 = 17th
2011 = 13th
2010 = 10th
2009 = 2nd
2008 = 13th

So middle of the pack........closer to more fouls than not.



Tho if you watch SEC games since Missouri and Texas AM been added in 2013 we have ranked, 16th, 8th, 9th and 3rd this season. The SEC has seemed to call alot more fouls compared to the average conference.

That makes sense it seems like watching SEC games & other games we have a lot of fouls called. Home teams in the SEC have a higher winning percentage than any other conference.

That explains some of the unexpected losses SEC teams have on the road.

 

[uky8unc5]

Interesting thread. I appreciate the info and viewpoints.

 

[Neue Regel]

I don't think there's really a specific reason.

Sure they lost a bunch of close games but if I did this exercise again I'm certain they have also won a bunch of close games as well.

No doubt Bill Self has had some excellent talent during his tenure with Kansas, however in looking at his recent squads the last few years I would question the overrall guard play. I haven't been that impressed with some of the backcourts he has had of late and as we all know you win Championships with great guards.

 

[michaeluk26]

I don't buy the idea of ranking a conference based on just the tournament. If you want to say the top teams are overrated then I may buy it but historically the sec has been garbage. Judging the whole sec on our success and florida's isn't fair. As a whole the big12 is by far the best conference, isu will be their 5-7 seed, that's very strong, especially considering they only have 10 teams. How those teams fair in the tournament will be seen but come tournament time I'm rooting for uk, not the sec

Uh, the Sec has historically been anything but garbage. Outside of the last 5 or 6 years its been consistently one of the best conferences. Iowa State was a hot pick for the final four last year as a 3 seed after winning the big 12tournament and lost in the first round. Buy that stock if you want, but expect a similar result this year. So you can't judge the sec by Florida and UK but you are trying to use Iowa state to tout the big 12? Lol you're gonna have to do better than that. Book it, no more than 2 big 12 teams get out of the first round. We've had 2 Sec teams in the final four 2 times in the last 9 years. How many times the big 12 done that in that span? Oh that's right, only Ku has made the final four a whopping 2 times in that time frame. What a great conference, at least regular season wise. Their tournament record is putrid for all the hype.

 

[fatguy87]

The B12 usually has one great to elite team in Kansas that we can reasonably expect to be a Final Four contender and a high percentage of teams in the 5-11 seed range. That's why Kansas wins the league every season. They are a notch above everybody else in the conference.

 

[ChalkItUp]

I do not disagree with anything you said above. As someone who has studied statistics I agree on the sample size theory.

But what is success ultimately measured by in NCAA basketball? Titles and Final 4s. Then success in the tournament. Conference tournaments and regular season games are a very small after thought.

In that case, UCLA has a comfortable hold on GOAT, right? And Uconn takes the modern era.