“Deserving better”

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

I was on Rafters reading about some of the “darker” times we are in with Cal and the post-season drought of success. This post isn't meant to bash all of Rafters because a lot of posters over there are great posters on the Lair.

Anyway, I was skimming through some posts and stumbled across a phrase that I see often there, and the phrase is “our fans deserve better”. Here’s what I’m trying to figure out.

A. Does a fan base “deserve better” based on how much pressure they put on the school/program to be excellent

Or

B. Does a fan base “deserve better” because they’ve shown to be long-suffering yet show up at games regardless of outcome?

Or

C. Is it due to financial contributions on thel part of fans toward the program?

One condition I didn’t add is fans feeling they are deserving because of a coaches salary (base plus endorsements, incentives etc). This doesn’t affect the fan’s personal, financial bottom line.

What type of fan base is truly “deserving”?

 

[EdgeHD]

Whatever a particular poster believes he or she deserves, or believes a designated group of people deserve, is subjective. We live in an entitled society, where people have learned that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Sports are supposed to be a hobby. People can root for whoever they want. It is supposed to be entertaining. If people do not enjoy their hobbies, then they need new hobbies.

I think people who went to school at Kentucky are inclined to be more loyal. If you went to school in Lexington, there was a social contract with the school. The school gave you an education in return for a (low) tuition and your time. You lived next to campus for four years and familiarity with the area occurred. Familiarity leads to fond memories and a sense of participation. Athletics are part of the school culture. When I was on campus, I knew basketball and football players personally. That way, it is more than just a TV image. I have not run into many former members of Kentucky's student body who feel dissatisfaction or anger with the school.

 

[Deli owl]

There's a whole lot of people over there way to emotionally invested for their own good.

 

[docholiday51]

I post on both boards and have for a while. My view of "deserves better" is this:
The basketball program deserves better, Winning games and all that goes with it seems to be one of Cal's lesser priorities over the past 3 or 4 years. Ending generational poverty, players first and the NBA draft seem to come before coaching basketball at UK for Cal.

Stoops seems to be trying to put a better product on the field and improve the level of the football program. He is doing more with less compared to Cal. I have been a fan of both for more than 60 years. Am I emotionally invested, to be a fan that long, the answer is hell yes. However one wants to phrase it ,the school, the program or the fans deserve the head coaches' best effort to promote the sport he coaches. We aren't getting that from John Calipari

 

[Girthang]

Deserve is a subjective word and means something different to everyone in each situation.

Have the fans earned the bullsht Cal slings at them? No.

Have they earned the right as a whole to be lumped into a category the coach has put them in? No.

Have they (meaning ALL fans) put a lot more into the program than than Cal PERIOD? Yes.

Has Cal earned the 8M per year that he's been given? No.

Has he earned the criticism because of his unwillingness and inability to manage a roster or a bench, and teach all aspects of the game well? Yes.

Do UK fans "deserve" a title? No.

Should they expect a coach earning 8M per year to deliver a product on par or above that of programs that have won multiple titles since he arrived at UK, and since he last won one? Yes.

Should they expect it WITHOUT the snide comments thrown at people that have proven to know more about basketball than he's shown on the court for most of his time here? Yes.

Should someone being paid 8M per year quit whining, making excuses, and stfu about what a few people say about him, and just go win SOMETHING for the program that's giving him everything he's asked for and then some? Yeah.

He can't even win the SEC or the SECT at "a basketball school" in a FOOTBALL CONFERENCE ffs.

 

[BIG BLUE GURU]

I post on both boards and have for a while. My view of "deserves better" is this:
The basketball program deserves better, Winning games and all that goes with it seems to be one of Cal's lesser priorities over the past 3 or 4 years. Ending generational poverty, players first and the NBA draft seem to come before coaching basketball at UK for Cal.

Stoops seems to be trying to put a better product on the field and improve the level of the football program. He is doing more with less compared to Cal. I have been a fan of both for more than 60 years. Am I emotionally invested, to be a fan that long, the answer is hell yes. However one wants to phrase it ,the school, the program or the fans deserve the head coaches' best effort to promote the sport he coaches. We aren't getting that from John Calipari

Well said. I tend to have a slightly different opinion of Cal. I don’t think we as fans deserve more. Heck with 8 National Championships we have had more success than anyone other than UCLA. My fault with Cal is solely that he is the highest paid coach in College Basketball and should be producing better results as of late than he is. I also despise the fact that the man talks down to the fans and media. I despise the fact that NBA draft is his sole mission even if it costs us some games and better seeding. I simply want a coach who wants it all. Please the fans, do right by the school paying you 9 million per year and take care of the kids. The part most don't discuss when it comes to Cal is how many players transfer out of his system. Does Cal not care about developing them? Obviously they don't think so or they would stay.

 

[EdgeHD]

Deserve is a subjective word and means something different to everyone in each situation.

Have the fans earned the bullsht Cal slings at them? No.

Have they earned the right as a whole to be lumped into a category the coach has put them in? No.

Have they (meaning ALL fans) put a lot more into the program than than Cal PERIOD? Yes.

Has Cal earned the 8M per year that he's been given? No.

Has he earned the criticism because of his unwillingness and inability to manage a roster or a bench, and teach all aspects of the game well? Yes.

Do UK fans "deserve" a title? No.

Should they expect a coach earning 8M per year to deliver a product on par or above that of programs that have won multiple titles since he arrived at UK, and since he last won one? Yes.

Should they expect it WITHOUT the snide comments thrown at people that have proven to know more about basketball than he's shown on the court for most of his time here? Yes.

Should someone being paid 8M per year quit whining, making excuses, and stfu about what a few people say about him, and just go win SOMETHING for the program that's giving him everything he's asked for and then some? Yeah.

He can't even win the SEC or the SECT at "a basketball school" in a FOOTBALL CONFERENCE ffs.

I do not disagree with anything you are saying.

The problem is that Cal and the "greater" university community, including our supporters and donors, are not on the same page. We don't "deserve" championships. Those must be earned. But Kentucky has earned 8 of them, and our fans are the living, breathing time capsule for those memories and expectations.

If Cal has higher goals than winning championships, he should not have taken this job. He took the job for ego and money. He won his compulsory championship with Davis, then he got too cozy and comfortable. It takes a certain personality type to get cozy and comfortable in this high visibility coaching job. You have to feel you are bigger than the job, or else you have to feel that fulfilling expectations has gotten too difficult to be worthy of your time. In Cal's case, maybe a little of both. Although we should not fool ourselves by thinking we deserve championships, we sure as hell deserve a coach who spends every day of his big contract trying like crazy to win them. We can see this hunger in other basketball coaches, but not in our own man. Therein lies the problem. We deserve to see that level of desire and hunger for success, not a rationalization that being the best is old news. Not a snake oil salesman who looks down on everyone from a false perch.

Football is the other side of the coin. Stoops came to Lexington with no head coaching experience and no easy options. Football was being played at a "basketball school". Underperformance was expected because, again, our fans are the living, breathing time capsule for the history of the football program. Before, our football program had been so mismanaged by Hagan and CM Newton that many of us lost the ability to recognize a successful AD when we see one. But Stoops built a successful process. The expectations should be the same for football, a coaching staff that does everything in their power to be successful and win. With football, that is what we have. All I ask is a truly championship effort, because that is the part Stoops and Cal can control.

 

[K_TIME]

I agree with Deli Owl....so many are way to invested to the point of thinking a team "owes" you something.

But to the heart of the dicussion....the coach should do the best he can do for the program, to win, put a good product on the field (within the rules may be sketchy for some) and have his players represent the University well. We all pay for UK sports to degrees if we contribute to NIL, attend games or even watch them as part of our TV subscriptions packages. So regardless...it is entertainment and a product which the customer is paying for to a degree.

1. Cal with his "players first" mantra has seen the needle move well towards not much about the fans and he's seeing his kids aren't winning and give much of a crap about the program.

2. Stoops, warts and all, the fans feel like he tries very hard with results to maximize his program for Kentucky and the kids benefit as well. And he has a way harder road to tow in college football/SEC than the basketball teams does.

But to answer your question, the fans deserve a good product for their participation/money. Just like companies like Apple, Chik Fil A, Michelin Tires, etc...have to compete for customers resources...or people will move on. It's life. Cal is feeling it due to his own behaviors.

 

[Girthang]

I do not disagree with anything you are saying.

The problem is that Cal and the "greater" university community, including our supporters and donors, are not on the same page. We don't "deserve" championships. Those must be earned. But Kentucky has earned 8 of them, and our fans are the living, breathing time capsule for those memories and expectations.

If Cal has higher goals than winning championships, he should not have taken this job. He took the job for ego and money. He won his compulsory championship with Davis, then he got too cozy and comfortable. It takes a certain personality type to get cozy and comfortable in this high visibility coaching job. You have to feel you are bigger than the job, or else you have to feel that fulfilling expectations has gotten too difficult to be worthy of your time. In Cal's case, maybe a little of both. Although we should not fool ourselves by thinking we deserve championships, we sure as hell deserve a coach who spends every day of his big contract trying like crazy to win them. We can see this hunger in other basketball coaches, but not in our own man. Therein lies the problem. We deserve to see that level of desire and hunger for success, not a rationalization that being the best is old news. Not a snake oil salesman who looks down on everyone from a false perch.

Football is the other side of the coin. Stoops came to Lexington with no head coaching experience and no easy options. Football was being played at a "basketball school". Underperformance was expected because, again, our fans are the living, breathing time capsule for the history of the football program. Before, our football program had been so mismanaged by Hagan and CM Newton that many of us lost the ability to recognize a successful AD when we see one. But Stoops built a successful process. The expectations should be the same for football, a coaching staff that does everything in their power to be successful and win. With football, that is what we have. All I ask is a truly championship effort, because that is the part Stoops and Cal can control.

Well said

 

[Bluesbrother]

I was on Rafters reading about some of the “darker” times we are in with Cal and the post-season drought of success. This post isn't meant to bash all of Rafters because a lot of posters over there are great posters on the Lair.

Anyway, I was skimming through some posts and stumbled across a phrase that I see often there, and the phrase is “our fans deserve better”. Here’s what I’m trying to figure out.

A. Does a fan base “deserve better” based on how much pressure they put on the school/program to be excellent

Or

B. Does a fan base “deserve better” because they’ve shown to be long-suffering yet show up at games regardless of outcome?

Or

C. Is it due to financial contributions on thel part of fans toward the program?

One condition I didn’t add is fans feeling they are deserving because of a coaches salary (base plus endorsements, incentives etc). This doesn’t affect the fan’s personal, financial bottom line.

What type of fan base is truly “deserving”?

"Type of Fan Base" ... BBN is not normal, they're exceptionally loyal. They will spend a lot of money following UK anywhere. "Blue Got In" is a phrase used that describes UK fans determination of find ways into distant venues when tickets can't be found. All things are relevant so when it's said that BBN deserves better from Calipari than what they're receiving, one must look at Cal's motives versus BBN rightful expectations. Cal's sole focus is on the NBA draft for "his" OAD players and not roster development, which sustains a program year after year. The UKBB program is suffering from Cal's misguided focus on the NBA draft. I don't think he was hired to end generational poverty and his stewardship of the UK basketball program seems secondary to him. That's my view and with that said, yes ... I do believe UKBB fans deserve much better from Cal considering the level of their devotion and support they give to that program.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

I do not disagree with anything you are saying.

The problem is that Cal and the "greater" university community, including our supporters and donors, are not on the same page. We don't "deserve" championships. Those must be earned. But Kentucky has earned 8 of them, and our fans are the living, breathing time capsule for those memories and expectations.

If Cal has higher goals than winning championships, he should not have taken this job. He took the job for ego and money. He won his compulsory championship with Davis, then he got too cozy and comfortable. It takes a certain personality type to get cozy and comfortable in this high visibility coaching job. You have to feel you are bigger than the job, or else you have to feel that fulfilling expectations has gotten too difficult to be worthy of your time. In Cal's case, maybe a little of both. Although we should not fool ourselves by thinking we deserve championships, we sure as hell deserve a coach who spends every day of his big contract trying like crazy to win them. We can see this hunger in other basketball coaches, but not in our own man. Therein lies the problem. We deserve to see that level of desire and hunger for success, not a rationalization that being the best is old news. Not a snake oil salesman who looks down on everyone from a false perch.

Football is the other side of the coin. Stoops came to Lexington with no head coaching experience and no easy options. Football was being played at a "basketball school". Underperformance was expected because, again, our fans are the living, breathing time capsule for the history of the football program. Before, our football program had been so mismanaged by Hagan and CM Newton that many of us lost the ability to recognize a successful AD when we see one. But Stoops built a successful process. The expectations should be the same for football, a coaching staff that does everything in their power to be successful and win. With football, that is what we have. All I ask is a truly championship effort, because that is the part Stoops and Cal can control.

I’m giving you 10 extra points for the “living, breathing time-capsule” take. 😎😎😎. Well put!

 

[hoojyoutlaw]

I can't stand some of our basketball-only fans at times, but I agree.

 

[ukalum1988]

Rafters is not a happy place right now, and for the most has not been for at least the past 3-4 years

 

[YaketySax]

Fans by nature think they are entitled to glory they don’t work for…they just watch. “Deserves got nothing to do with it”

 

[BlueRaider22]

I agree with Edge.


The only thing I will add is that the expectations of the general fans is unreasonable. When I moved to Kentucky about 20 yrs ago, I heard the following phrases (in various forms) by many, many different people: "There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be in the Final Four every single year." "This is UK, we should win a national championship every other year." "There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to get any coach or any player whenever we want."

 

[Bluesbrother]

I do not disagree with anything you are saying.

The problem is that Cal and the "greater" university community, including our supporters and donors, are not on the same page. We don't "deserve" championships. Those must be earned. But Kentucky has earned 8 of them, and our fans are the living, breathing time capsule for those memories and expectations.

If Cal has higher goals than winning championships, he should not have taken this job. He took the job for ego and money. He won his compulsory championship with Davis, then he got too cozy and comfortable. It takes a certain personality type to get cozy and comfortable in this high visibility coaching job. You have to feel you are bigger than the job, or else you have to feel that fulfilling expectations has gotten too difficult to be worthy of your time. In Cal's case, maybe a little of both. Although we should not fool ourselves by thinking we deserve championships, we sure as hell deserve a coach who spends every day of his big contract trying like crazy to win them. We can see this hunger in other basketball coaches, but not in our own man. Therein lies the problem. We deserve to see that level of desire and hunger for success, not a rationalization that being the best is old news. Not a snake oil salesman who looks down on everyone from a false perch.

Football is the other side of the coin. Stoops came to Lexington with no head coaching experience and no easy options. Football was being played at a "basketball school". Underperformance was expected because, again, our fans are the living, breathing time capsule for the history of the football program. Before, our football program had been so mismanaged by Hagan and CM Newton that many of us lost the ability to recognize a successful AD when we see one. But Stoops built a successful process. The expectations should be the same for football, a coaching staff that does everything in their power to be successful and win. With football, that is what we have. All I ask is a truly championship effort, because that is the part Stoops and Cal can control.

You've got it right IMO and that's exactly what I was saying. BBN deserves something much better from Cal than what we're getting. Some in this thread seem to have read the intent of this thread as BBN somehow "deserves" championships. This isn't even close to the truth because that is irrational. What BBN deserves is a coach whose first priority is the University, Program, Tradition, and Fanbase. If a coach excels in these areas, the players will prosper as well. A rising tide lifts all boats and everyone benefits. Cal's cares only about draft status and BBN deserves much better than this.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Don't really think any of my sports teams owe me anything. It's mindless entertainment and a passionate hobby for me.

I love talking sports but don't let losses bother me anymore like I used to. There are so many cooler things in life to spend ones time on than fretting over not winning a national title or super bowl.

When UK won in 2012 it was cool but didn't positively make my life any better and same with making it negatively worse when they lost in 2015 or when titans came up short to Bengals a couple years back. Life goes on.

Again, I post a lot on here due to job situation and remote work to pass the time and hope UK wins it all every season n every sport but do not feel im owed anything.

 

[JPFisher]

I think it's a few factors.

First, UK has a history of excellence in basketball. That history has led to the expectation that those good times will continue. We are, by all metrics, a CBB blue blood.

Second, third, and fourth is that - a) our history means that all generations of current fans have seen our program at the top and those fans expect to see the program back on the CBB pedestal; b) UKMBB fans, having been raised around the idea (and seeing) that we're top dogs, in general, care much more about keeping that winning tradition and making runs in the tournament than a middling P5 school whose fans only really start watching and caring around March Madness; c) because the fans care so much, they tend to invest quite a lot in a program that, as of late, has WOEFULLY underperformed. Now, in fairness, the 2020 team would've been really special, but everyone started stealing shit paper in March and the rest is history.

UK is paying Calipari a metric f-ton of money. Fans invest a lot of emotional capital into the program (admittedly, a lot invest TOO MUCH enough capital, but whatever). The product on the court has been lacking.

I don't think the fans "deserve better." I just think that many of them recognize that we're getting a garbage return on investment at the moment and that's got a ton of us riled up like a mowed-over yellow jacket nest.

I have invested nothing into the program besides apparel $$$ and some tickets over the years, but I like watching my cats win. Personally, I miss having a halfway decent product on the court, but I don't feel entitled to a better product.

 

[JDHoss]

There's a whole lot of people over there way to emotionally invested for their own good.

Absolutely. I love UK athletics and want them to do well, just like I do a couple of other lower division college programs, a couple of high school programs and several pro sports franchises. But my emotional well being doesn't hinge on their success or lack of. I watch on TV, sometimes buy tickets & merchandise, but never felt like I "deserved" any certain level of success.

 

[NavyCat88]

What you earn.....you deserve.

In other words: Right now we're reaping what we have sown with (1) a confidence man bead basketball coach just cashing a check, (2) running a NBA farm team, (3) hiding behind "generational wealth" generation for AAU players that would drafted right out of HS if the pro's would admit them to the draft.......all while (4) working under a dimwitted life-time contract (thanks AD).

We're on more solid ground with FB (good, but not yet great) ...we're on a program high with baseball, BUT our flagship, gold-standard, one time/all-time winningest BB program is a dumpster fire with a coach we cannot afford to discharge until close to 2030 (one more time...thanks-AD).

Go Hardball Cats!!!!

GBB!

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

There's a whole lot of people over there way to emotionally invested for their own good.

My gosh. I’m a football-first guy and I can’t even relate to the over-the-top fandom and zeal some show over there. It’s as if their own lives are in despair if we’re not good at basketball. One poster even tried convincing me it was bad for the welfare of the state (economically, morally, familial etc). 😂😂😂

I can’t even😂😂😂. SeriyI don’t understand it.

 

[blueskidmark]

I was on Rafters reading about some of the “darker” times we are in with Cal and the post-season drought of success. This post isn't meant to bash all of Rafters because a lot of posters over there are great posters on the Lair.

Anyway, I was skimming through some posts and stumbled across a phrase that I see often there, and the phrase is “our fans deserve better”. Here’s what I’m trying to figure out.

A. Does a fan base “deserve better” based on how much pressure they put on the school/program to be excellent

Or

B. Does a fan base “deserve better” because they’ve shown to be long-suffering yet show up at games regardless of outcome?

Or

C. Is it due to financial contributions on thel part of fans toward the program?

One condition I didn’t add is fans feeling they are deserving because of a coaches salary (base plus endorsements, incentives etc). This doesn’t affect the fan’s personal, financial bottom line.

What type of fan base is truly “deserving”?

We are talking about the most passionate fan base in college basketball. We are passionate for a reason. If they want us to stop caring and to not watch anymore then sure, we don't deserve anything at all. I'll gladly utilize my time elsewhere if UK or cal could care less. Then we can be just like everyone else.

 

[Lost In FL]

I agree with Edge.


The only thing I will add is that the expectations of the general fans is unreasonable. When I moved to Kentucky about 20 yrs ago, I heard the following phrases (in various forms) by many, many different people: "There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be in the Final Four every single year." "This is UK, we should win a national championship every other year." "There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to get any coach or any player whenever we want."

I don't disagree with you, and would state that Bama, tO$U, Irish fans all feel the exact same way towards fball. And they cannot ALL be right, but that is how "blue blood" fanbases think. Most UK BB fans expect to be in the running for a championship every year, and that is not unreasonable IMO. (I do agree that winning it all every year is unreasonable, but UK is no longer in the real discussion anymore and that pisses us off.) We used to be EVERYONE's "super bowl" because UK was the pinnacle. not any more.

I like what Bluesbrother said and will say it a slightly different way: is Cal doing all he can to try to win a national title every year? Clearly the answer is no, it is not his top priority and maybe not in his top 3 priorities ... therefore UK BB fans deserve better. JMO

 

[Lost In FL]

One final thought, I will say Cal is bringing it with this class. With 3 of the top 6 players, 4 of the top 15 and the 5th ranked at 28, that is incredible. If cal cannot win something, be it the SECT or Regional, then some change has to be made.

 

[rye48]

Sorry op but I come here to get away from those spoiled assed fans

 

[NavyCat88]

One final thought, I will say Cal is bringing it with this class. With 3 of the top 6 players, 4 of the top 15 and the 5th ranked at 28, that is incredible. If cal cannot win something, be it the SECT or Regional, then some change has to be made.

Cal is terminally X&O challenged, so I don't look for a deep post-season run with our reflagged AAU squad starting this fall.

As far as "change...to be made:" We can't absorb his buyout, so unless he gets an atypical case of guilt & responsibility for piss poor coaching (and resigns), he keeps berating the bennies, cashing checks, and giving hugs in the NBA-draft green-room until close to 2030.

GBB!

 

[UKDingerJames]

My gosh. I’m a football-first guy and I can’t even relate to the over-the-top fandom and zeal some show over there. It’s as if their own lives are in despair if we’re not good at basketball. One poster even tried convincing me it was bad for the welfare of the state (economically, morally, familial etc). 😂😂😂

I can’t even😂😂😂. SeriyI don’t understand it.

How are you a Kentucky fan and not understand how UK basketball fans are feeling right now?

Please tell me you’re not content just winning seven games while Mark Stoopsy holds the offense hostage…as he whacks off watching the play clock tick away down under four seconds before every snap. Meanwhile Huepel is looking to smoke our ass every seven seconds.

 

[MrHotDice]

I was on Rafters reading about some of the “darker” times we are in with Cal and the post-season drought of success. This post isn't meant to bash all of Rafters because a lot of posters over there are great posters on the Lair.

Anyway, I was skimming through some posts and stumbled across a phrase that I see often there, and the phrase is “our fans deserve better”. Here’s what I’m trying to figure out.

A. Does a fan base “deserve better” based on how much pressure they put on the school/program to be excellent

Or

B. Does a fan base “deserve better” because they’ve shown to be long-suffering yet show up at games regardless of outcome?

Or

C. Is it due to financial contributions on thel part of fans toward the program?

One condition I didn’t add is fans feeling they are deserving because of a coaches salary (base plus endorsements, incentives etc). This doesn’t affect the fan’s personal, financial bottom line.

What type of fan base is truly “deserving”?

Wake up. Fan deserve zero unless its tied to money. wins and losses are for the fans but the real perks come with who you are and what you give. UK could care less if your a grad. Follow the money.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

Wake up. Fan deserve zero unless its tied to money. wins and losses are for the fans but the real perks come with who you are and what you give. UK could care less if your a grad. Follow the money.

I haven’t had enough coffee to wake up yet

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

How are you a Kentucky fan and not understand how UK basketball fans are feeling right now?

Please tell me you’re not content just winning seven games while Mark Stoopsy holds the offense hostage…as he whacks off watching the play clock tick away down under four seconds before every snap. Meanwhile Huepel is looking to smoke our ass every seven seconds.

I’m more of a football fan 80/20 but I can somewhat relate—as it reminds me a little of the 1990s when we were in the depths of 2-9/1-10 type seasons. Just hopelessness. I do believe m, however the right coach will right the ship so honestly I’m not all that worried about basketball. They’ve recovered before.

I don’t see us settling for 7-5 each year. We continue to get better.