‘92 - how many to Calipari U?

[Caveman Catfan]

How many of the ‘92 Elite Eight squad would have been recruited seriously by Calipari?

Richie Farmer, Sean Woods, Carlos Toomer, Dale Brown, Travis Ford, Henry Thomas, John Pelphrey, Gimel Martinez, Andre Riddick, Aminu Timberlake, Jamal Mashburn, Deron Feldhaus, Jeff Brassow

One? Maybe Mashburn?

 

[UK90]

Probably only Mashburn.

 

[JonathanW]

Let's keep beating a dead horse, please

 

[KAB Cats]

Such a different era. Hard to compare. Back then, freshmen were expected to barely play.

 

[IL Wildcat]

Mashburn is the only guarantee. The rest weren't highly rated enough. Maybe Riddick.

 

[G-PIP]

Such a different era. Hard to compare. Back then, freshmen were expected to barely play.

Seems that freshmen are still expected to barely play on the teams that compete for championships. Indoctrinated perception can be a powerful thing to overcome.

 

[KAB Cats]

Seems that freshmen are still expected to barely play on the teams that compete for championships. Indoctrinated perception can be a powerful thing to overcome.

Yea, I don't know about all that.

Regardless of the Calipari-biased perspective, the entire concept of OAD was foreign and players leaving before their senior year was way way way more unlikely. So, as a result, the average age of all teams was higher and predictability for roster retention was much more straight forward

Today, not only is any player more likely to go pro earlier, introduction of NIL and not having to sit out to transfer means even the players you retain have a much higher probability of leaving.

If Rick Pitino took the same scenario at Kentucky today, he would've gone directly to the portal in the first place. It's almost as hard to compare today's era to 1992 as it was to compare 1992 to the pre-3 point era.

 

[Elliott Tim]

Let's keep beating a dead horse, please

AMEN!

 

[blue cincy]

Brassow was one of the top players. Mash / Brass and Brown would be a transfer portal guy. Cal would have taken all 3 of those guys.
But agree, we just keep on bringing up Cal. I guess Pope could be here with 5 NCAA championships and we would still have posts of you remember the freshman guys Cal would get.

 

[TucsonCat]

The same ones that Rick recruited and didn't inherit. Except Calipari probably knows not to go after the few Rick brought in and then ran off

 

[CatFanInIlliniLand]

Depends on if any of them were highly rated by Rivals/ESPN?

Cal would take any player if he was ranked in the top 50. Surely Riddick was better than Marcus Lee, etc

 

[qwesley]

Zero. Mashburn was chunky in HS.

 

[jeffky]

 

[ThrowBackCat9]

 

[BlueBomb]

Cal probably would not have gone after Mash too hard. He wasn't the type of athlete he prefers. At least he wasn't in high school.

 

[JFCats22]

Who cares? What a weird thread to start.

 

[blue cincy]

Brassow was one of the top players. Mash / Brass and Brown would be a transfer portal guy. Cal would have taken all 3 of those guys.
But agree, we just keep on bringing up Cal. I guess Pope could be here with 5 NCAA championships and we would still have posts of you remember the freshman guys Cal would get.

Meaning out of high school (Brassow Texas Gatoraid player of year) 5*.

 

[know1]

Who cares? Let's stop with the Cal threads, OK?

 

[Hopmix]

Such a different era. Hard to compare. Back then, freshmen were expected to barely play.

there were also maybe 3-4 guys that could jump to the league after a freshman year, the NBA was substantially more physical and defensive oriented then. Its not now. Kids went to college to learn defense and now that the NBA has softened the game to make basketball more appealing globally and to attract more Europeans, theres really no reason to go to college as a player unless the NBA team says you need to.

 

[CROCAT]

Such a different era. Hard to compare. Back then, freshmen were expected to barely play.

The best era...

 

[susan2361]

I don't understand the people who complain about the thread. I mean why do you come on here to complain about beating a dead horse, etc? Why not just don't read it if you don't like it or think it's necessary? Some threads I start to read and think it's boring or whatever and I just go to another one. I don't post on them that it's boring or I don't like them...I just leave.
That's like if someone announced they're leaving, someone else always posts that it's not an airport, you don't have to announce you're leaving. Kinda like that.

 

[L.O.D.]

Maybe only Riddick as he fit the type of athlete Cal likes , Maybe Brassow being he was a 5 star . . Mash didn't have the look of the athlete he became early .

 

[G-PIP]

Yea, I don't know about all that.

Regardless of the Calipari-biased perspective, the entire concept of OAD was foreign and players leaving before their senior year was way way way more unlikely. So, as a result, the average age of all teams was higher and predictability for roster retention was much more straight forward

Today, not only is any player more likely to go pro earlier, introduction of NIL and not having to sit out to transfer means even the players you retain have a much higher probability of leaving.

If Rick Pitino took the same scenario at Kentucky today, he would've gone directly to the portal in the first place. It's almost as hard to compare today's era to 1992 as it was to compare 1992 to the pre-3 point era.

No, I agree that the eras are different, and those differences you pointed out are probably all true. But I maintain that this point would remain the same in both ages: Relying on freshmen dominated teams is a recipe for failure; and doing so intentionally serves some purpose other than chasing titles. So, could relying on 3-4 freshmen to carry your team possibly work once in a blue moon? Yeah, I guess. But is it the best and smartest way to build a title contender at a blue-blood school that supposedly has the ability to build roster models anyway they want? I think the answer to that is very clearly “no.”

So, I'm very grateful and hopeful that the freshman OAD dominated roster model is over at UK. That doesn't mean that UK doesn't need to recruit freshmen every year. I think they probably need to bring in 4-5 a year. I just think it's counter-productive and a not a good investment value to bring in multiple freshmen that you know are only going to be at UK one year regardless. Freshmen are just not generally good enough to be worth it. If you're going to take a guy for one year only, then you're better off usually to take a top transfer.

 

[cats#1again]

It's gonna set our fans on fire when he starts getting players to come back to Arkansas when they need to. He was never gonna be able to change that culture at UK. That and NIL may have been the big reason he left

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Let's keep beating a dead horse, please

It's a dead horse to discuss a coach who

1. Just left our program in ashes no less than 5 weeks ago?
2. Took three of our incoming recruits with him?
3. Took three of our presumed returners with him?
4. Went to an SEC rival with the intent to competitively destroy us?

Discussing him equates to "beating a dead horse?"

I don't think so. The only horse to beat in this battle is Calipari's. We need to beat his program to death, and understand that having anything less than a total war mindset against him will equal failure.

Why? Because I can assure you his #1 mission is to embarrass our program and annihilate us competitively.

This is competitive warfare. Total warfare.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

It's gonna set our fans on fire when he starts getting players to come back to Arkansas when they need to. He was never gonna be able to change that culture at UK. That and NIL may have been the big reason he left

LOL

He's not going to change any OAD culture just because he's at Arkansas. His OAD model will haunt him until he retires. Guys aren't going to suddenly see him as a Bill Self clone and start coming back for a sophomore year. Just read what Karter Knox said about him. It's all about the fastest ticket to the NBA, and Arkansas will provide the same launching pad that UK did for the impatient OAD types.

Wagner isn't coming back to school because of some cultural change. He's coming back because he's completely undraftable.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I don't understand the people who complain about the thread. I mean why do you come on here to complain about beating a dead horse, etc? Why not just don't read it if you don't like it or think it's necessary? Some threads I start to read and think it's boring or whatever and I just go to another one. I don't post on them that it's boring or I don't like them...I just leave.
That's like if someone announced they're leaving, someone else always posts that it's not an airport, you don't have to announce you're leaving. Kinda like that.

Because a bunch of them used to make excuses for Calipari.

Now that he's at Arkansas, they want us just to "move on."

It's not going to happen. This is Kentucky basketball. Everything - past, present and future - is relevant and fair game from a discussion level. These guys are out of their minds if they think we're just going to sweep the Cal era under the rug, when just 5 weeks ago Cal left our program bleeding to death and didn't even have the decency to drop our dying body off at the hospital before he left down.

What he did here was more unforgivable than anything Pitino could have done in 1997. Pitino left our program with 7 Final Four players and four guys who had been starters on Final Four teams, plus three top 50 recruits (four if you count the verbally committed Byron Mouton) and an elite transfer in Heshimu Evans.

Cal left us dying in the wilderness.

It's not even close in terms of how these two cared for the program at the end of their tenures here.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Who cares? What a weird thread to start.

Cal left our program in ashes, and you have yet to criticize him even one time.

No wonder posters like you would think threads like this are "weird."

 

[Fox2monk]

Cal left our program in ashes, and you have yet to criticize him even one time.

No wonder posters like you would think threads like this are "weird."

Here is what Calipari just said in regards to building his Arkansas roster if anyone thinks he’s changed. Idk how he will even scrimmage.

"You may think I'm crazy, but I told my staff, I only want to have eight or nine guys," Calipari told Robinson, who is now the executive director of the National Association of Basketball Coaches. "They're leaving anyway and why would I develop a kid for someone else? Why would I do that?"

​

 

[susan2361]

Because a bunch of them used to make excuses for Calipari.

Now that he's at Arkansas, they want us just to "move on."

It's not going to happen. This is Kentucky basketball. Everything - past, present and future - is relevant and fair game from a discussion level. These guys are out of their minds if they think we're just going to sweep the Cal era under the rug, when just 5 weeks ago Cal left our program bleeding to death and didn't even have the decency to drop our dying body off at the hospital before he left down.

What he did here was more unforgivable than anything Pitino could have done in 1997. Pitino left our program with 7 Final Four players and four guys who had been starters on Final Four teams, plus three top 50 recruits (four if you count the verbally committed Byron Mouton) and an elite transfer in Heshimu Evans.

Cal left us dying in the wilderness.

It's not even close in terms of how these two cared for the program at the end of their tenures here.

You are EXACTLY right!!! Great post!!!!

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Let's keep beating a dead horse, please

It’s a point. There are various ways to put together a team and teams we loved in the past would never have existed under Cal, as we this week add a Kentucky kid to the squad who was also passed over.

But then, you should petition Rivals to make you the filter cop so that you can keep the “dead horse” threads out of your morning Wheaties.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Such a different era. Hard to compare. Back then, freshmen were expected to barely play.

Guys like Antonio Reeves, Grady, and others were expected to grow their game’s elsewhere before getting a taste. It was a different era, yet we have seen teams in the past couple of NCAA’s make the Final Four utilizing old era strategies.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Brassow was one of the top players. Mash / Brass and Brown would be a transfer portal guy. Cal would have taken all 3 of those guys.
But agree, we just keep on bringing up Cal. I guess Pope could be here with 5 NCAA championships and we would still have posts of you remember the freshman guys Cal would get.

Yeah, no one talked about Tubby in year 3 of Cal, let alone week 3, or even Pitino under Cal. LOL

Message boards … whatcha gonna do?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Who cares? Let's stop with the Cal threads, OK?

Yeah, it’s been a month already. Let’s talk about Trilly.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Here is what Calipari just said in regards to building his Arkansas roster if anyone thinks he’s changed. Idk how he will even scrimmage.

"You may think I'm crazy, but I told my staff, I only want to have eight or nine guys," Calipari told Robinson, who is now the executive director of the National Association of Basketball Coaches. "They're leaving anyway and why would I develop a kid for someone else? Why would I do that?"

​

I don’t believe him. Now, if you are a Justin Burks, Theiro, or Perry, why would you ever consider Arky?

 

[$Z71$]

Ratings weren’t like they are now in the internet age/highlight clips and huge NBA contracts. Totally different ERA and even Calipari didn’t recruit that way until the NBA changed the straight from high school rule to one year in college. Calipari started recruiting that way then, no one did it that way in the 90s.

Times change and you have to adapt, transfer portal, NIL, it’s ever changing every 5 years or so and nothing we can do to change that. Trying to compare 1992 to 2024 is silly though. It’s a completely different game. In 1992 3 point shot wasn’t introduced to college basketball until 1986 only 6 years before 1992. Now teams shoot 20-35 3s a game and a back to the basket center is almost unheard of where in the 90s it was a must have. Comparing the two eras is utterly useless as over time things change. Problem is fans don’t adapt and don’t like change and they forever hold on to how it used to be etc. That’s not how life works in any aspect and change is inevitable.

 

[blue cincy]

Yeah, no one talked about Tubby in year 3 of Cal, let alone week 3, or even Pitino under Cal. LOL

Message boards … whatcha gonna do?

It is what it is, right.

 

[BlueSince92]

Let's keep beating a dead horse, please

AMEN!

Who cares? Let's stop with the Cal threads, OK?

Hey @IL Wildcat you think it might make sense to move all these “dead horse” comments into a separate post? The way I see it they’re perfectly valid thoughts and these people should be free to discuss them.

However, they’re not authentically related to this topic at all. They have the effect of spamming/hijacking this actual discussion. And what’s more, there’s no way for people who are legitimately interested in discussing this particular actual topic to avoid that crosstalk.

Whereas the folks who obviously don’t like this actual topic were all free to just not click on this thread. And/or to start their own thread about the perfectly valid but very, very different topic they clearly prefer to discus instead. Doesn’t seem fair.

 

[ThrowBackCat9]

Hey @IL Wildcat you think it might make sense to move all these “dead horse” comments into a separate post? The way I see it they’re perfectly valid thoughts and these people should be free to discuss them.

However, they’re not authentically related to this topic at all. They have the effect of spamming/hijacking this actual discussion. And what’s more, there’s no way for people who are legitimately interested in discussing this particular actual topic to avoid that crosstalk.

Whereas the folks who obviously don’t like this actual topic were all free to just not click on this thread. And/or to start their own thread about the perfectly valid but very, very different topic they clearly prefer to discus instead. Doesn’t seem fair.

While we could have scrolled on past your thread, we didn’t violate any rules. Maybe you can take your own advice and scroll past our comments and continue on with your very insightful and informative topic.

 

[BlueSince92]

While we could have scrolled on past your thread, we didn’t violate any rules. Maybe you can take your own advice and scroll past our comments and continue on with your very insightful and informative topic.

My advice was never for anybody to need to scroll past comments. My advice was the opposite of that. Maybe take up reading?

As for mods moving the words of my advice (my comments) out of this thread if and when they move your spam/hijacking comments out of this thread, in line with my advice, I would be all about that. In fact if for some reason mods remove your spam comments here and leave my advice comments, then I’ll absolutely just delete my own advice comments myself.

What I’m after is a clean and useful version of the OP’s thread. Which is not my thread. Funny that you thought it was. Again with you and reading 😉