Vote NBA GM Poll Aike vs Ukcats1988

[UKcats1988]

Aike
Coach- Luke Walton

John Wall, G. Klay Thompson, G, Greak Freak, F/G. Devin Booker, G. Michael Kidd Gilchrist, F. Rudy Gobert, C. Tristan Thompson, C/F. Tyler Ulis, G. Steven Adams, C. Zach Lavine, G. Stanley Johnson, G/F. Dragan Bender, F.

Ukcats1988

Coach- Steve Kerr
Guards- Chris Paul(31), Eric Bledsoe(26), Bradley Beal(23), Allen Crabbe(24)

Forwards- Paul Millsap(31), Gordon Hayward(26), Brandon Ingram(18), Tobias Harris(24), Kent Bazemore(27),Patrick Patterson(27)

Centers- Demarcus Cousins(25), Nikola Jokic(21)

 

[UKcats1988]

@Aike

 

[Aike]

My Roster:

PGs: John Wall (25), Tyler Ulis (20)

Wings: Klay Thompson (26), MKG (22), Greek Freak (21), Devin Booker (19), Zack LaVine (21), Stanley Johnson (20)

Bigs: Rudy Gobert (24), Steven Adams (23), Tristan Thompson (25), Dragan Bender (18)

 

[Aike]

Not going to go into a lot of detail yet. Will reiterate that our assignment was to build the team that you would most like to be a fan of for the next five years. I believe I've done that.

Some quick points...

My team is built for speed, transition, and flexibility. Ultimately it's built to compete at a high level today, and continue to get better for the next 5 years.

My average roster age is only 22, and the oldest player is only 26. There aren't really any holes, that I can see. We will be hard to guard and can D up any kind of team.

I like UKCats roster. My biggest issue with them is the age of Chris Paul and Paul Millsap, and the health of Bledsoe.

I think he has a good team, but not one that's built to compete at the highest level for 5 years.

 

[hotelblue]

i went with aike. against a cousins/patterson front court too. ouch. the way the game has become more perimeter oriented really makes the thompson (with booker back up lmao) pick look strong. with wall and mkg you could be rotating with booker/thompson the best fast break in the nba. but then aike has enough beef inside for a slow down game also.

you need shooting all the time and he has it with klay and devin. by the end of next season we could be calling them two of the best, if not the best, shooting shooting guards in the nba. you also now have to trust john wall completely to run that show. and he would.

edit...i forgot ulis would really throw a wrench in good defensive team's game plans as well. if you ran into a strong defense team you unleash ulis in large spurts in those half court situations. he is just lethal as you know in decision making. i think he could drive good half court defensive teams nuts with his ability to create space.

 

[Aike]

@hotelblue, did you vote?

 

[UKcats1988]

My lineups would be

Point-Paul/Bledsoe
2-Beal/Bledsoe/Crabbe/Bazemore
3-Hayward/Ingram/Bazemore/Tobias/Crabbe
4-Millsap/Patterson/Jokic/Tobias/Cousins
5-Cousins/Jokic/Patterson/Millsap

I only have two guys over 27, and Paul should continue to age just fine considering the way he controls the game. Millsap may have a couple of elite type years left, if so that's a top 20 guy. I'm banking on Beal staying healthy. Jokic being unknown will hurt me but he's a future all star.

 

[hotelblue]

sorry now i did

 

[UKcats1988]

This isn't the best way to judge but when looking at potential starting lineups.

Cp3>Wall
Beal<Klay
Hayward=Giannis
Millsap>Thompson
Cousins>Gobert

 

[Aike]

My lineups would be

Point-Paul/Bledsoe
2-Beal/Bledsoe/Crabbe/Bazemore
3-Hayward/Ingram/Bazemore/Tobias/Crabbe
4-Millsap/Patterson/Jokic/Tobias/Cousins
5-Cousins/Jokic/Patterson/Millsap

I only have two guys over 27, and Paul should continue to age just fine considering the way he controls the game. Millsap may have a couple of elite type years left, if so that's a top 20 guy. I'm banking on Beal staying healthy. Jokic being unknown will hurt me but he's a future all star.

Jokic is really good. Expecting Paul to continue to lead at an elite level for more than 2-3 years will be a problem, imo.

Then as he fades, you have to hope for a healthy Bledsoe, who depends so much on athleticism.

Like I said, I think you have a good team. I just don't think it's quite built to hold up for 5 years. And I don't think you're better than me today, although I would expect a very competitive series.

 

[UKcats1988]

I think my team is better for sure for the next 2-3 seasons, after that it would depend on the health of Bledsoe/Beal.

 

[hotelblue]

i was forced to vote against you late last round. glad you over came that. i usually comment on my choice but i was afraid too lol. i think it was tied. but whoever you beat i liked that team.

 

[UKcats1988]

And at age 31 Paul is coming off 1st team all defense, 2nd team all NBA, 6th in MVP voting. I think he can be very good until he's 33-34.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

I think Gordon Hayward is incredibly underrated.

 

[UKcats1988]

I think Gordon Hayward is incredibly underrated.

He is. He's a top 25ish player in the NBA, I feel he and Millsap are both very underrated.

 

[Aike]

This isn't the best way to judge but when looking at potential starting lineups.

Cp3>Wall
Beal<Klay
Hayward=Giannis
Millsap>Thompson
Cousins>Gobert

That's close if you are looking at today only. I think Wall is as good as Paul right now, but moving forward it's clearly JW.

I would be more inclined to start MKG than Thompson.

Also, the combo of Gobert and Adams would be frustrating for Cousins. Cousins is better than Gobert individually, though.

 

[UKcats1988]

Wall isn't as good as Cp3 now, no stat or eye test would back that up.

Here's them compared using last year

http://www.basketball-reference.com...=walljo01&y2=2016&p2=paulch01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

 

[Aike]

I think Gordon Hayward is incredibly underrated.

I love Hayward. I drafted him last year and would have again.

But I'm comfortable with MKG and Giannis manning that space on the court.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

I love Hayward. I drafted him last year and would have again.

But I'm comfortable with MKG and Giannis manning that space on the court.

This will be an unpopular opinion on the board, but I think Hayward is better than MKG. Virtual wash between him and Giannis I think. Once again, it's a very good matchup.

 

[Aike]

Wall isn't as good as Cp3 now, no stat or eye test would back that up.

Wall has made 3 consecutive All Star teams and is still improving. Paul is still elite, but he's one wrong turn away from his inevitable downhill slide.

Paul was a little better last year, but I expect Wall to make the next leap forward and for Paul to decline, at least some.

And for all of Paul's skill and accolades, he still hasn't been able to carry some extremely talented teams to the Finals.

 

[Aike]

This will be an unpopular opinion on the board, but I think Hayward is better than MKG. Virtual wash between him and Giannis I think. Once again, it's a very good matchup.

Yeah, it's competitive, no doubt.

For me it comes down to which team you would most enjoy watching over the next 5 years.

If you like the idea of watching Chris Paul try to gut it out on his last legs, ok then.

 

[UKcats1988]

Wall has made 3 consecutive All Star teams and is still improving. Paul is still elite, but he's one wrong turn away from his inevitable downhill slide.

Paul was a little better last year, but I expect Wall to make the next leap forward and for Paul to decline, at least some.

And for all of Paul's skill and accolades, he still hasn't been able to carry some extremely talented teams to the Finals.

He was more than a little better last year, using a couple advanced numbers from bball reference he was quite a bit better.

PER- Wall 19.8, Paul 26.2
Box plus minus- Wall 3.2 Paul 7.8
Win shares/48- Wall 0.98, Paul .253

 

[UKcats1988]

I think Aike has a really nice young team. I figure this voting will be pretty close with the winner getting beat by JBHolmesFan next round haha.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

I think Aike has a really nice young team. I figure this voting will be pretty close with the winner getting beat by JBHolmesFan next round haha.

You know, I've always thought you very smart.

 

[Aike]

Well, I watched both guys quite a bit. The Wizards had a tough year with injuries.

The reality of some of those advanced stats like box plus/minus is that playing with better players, on better teams can improve your stats.

I'm fine with saying Paul had a better year last year.

But Paul is still 31 and Wall is 25. Over the next 5 years, is there any question who is the better prospect?

Not to mention, I'll have Ulis growing into the backup role, and Giannis who has proven very capable of running the point.

You'll have Bledsoe, who I love, but whose health and durability are a concern.

 

[UKcats1988]

Bump since it is tied

 

[Big_Blue79]

Aike
Coach- Luke Walton

John Wall, G. Klay Thompson, G, Greak Freak, F/G. Devin Booker, G. Michael Kidd Gilchrist, F. Rudy Gobert, C. Tristan Thompson, C/F. Tyler Ulis, G. Steven Adams, C. Zach Lavine, G. Stanley Johnson, G/F. Dragan Bender, F.

Ukcats1988

Coach- Steve Kerr
Guards- Chris Paul(31), Eric Bledsoe(26), Bradley Beal(23), Allen Crabbe(24)

Forwards- Paul Millsap(31), Gordon Hayward(26), Brandon Ingram(18), Tobias Harris(24), Kent Bazemore(27),Patrick Patterson(27)

Centers- Demarcus Cousins(25), Nikola Jokic(21)

This is a matchup of 2 of my top 3 teams in this tournament, so it's really tough. Love Aike's roster flexibility (although his proposed starting lineup - Giannis and Wall and MKG - would be handicapped by lack of shooting, I assume Walton would stagger his lineups better) and youth with upside. The center rotation is terrific for this 5 year format - youth, rim protection, mobility, physicality (I don't see center scoring as all that necessary unless it's an elite level like Cousins). Big concerns are PG depth (Ulis is a backup at best in the NBA, not sure he should be rostered in this format) and shooting on the wing. Ukcats1988 has so many players I think are underrated (Patterson, Bazemore, Millsap, Jokic), and Cousins is a beast (best player on either team). Paul will age well, and for total production over the next five years I'd take him over Wall (but it's close). Age and rim protection are an issue, though, as guys like Paul, Millsap, Baze, and Patterson will start to decline within 3 years or sooner, and neither Cousins nor Jokic are good rim protectors. Cousins is above average when motivated, so maybe Kerr can get that out of him. UKCats probably wins early, probably Aike in 3-4 years.

I can't decide what team I like better in a vacuum, so I'm basing my decision on how I see them matching up against each other. I don't like to reveal picks before voting is done, so I'll save the pick and H2H thoughts for later (but I voted).

 

[Aike]

This is a matchup of 2 of my top 3 teams in this tournament, so it's really tough. Love Aike's roster flexibility (although his proposed starting lineup - Giannis and Wall and MKG - would be handicapped by lack of shooting, I assume Walton would stagger his lineups better) and youth with upside. The center rotation is terrific for this 5 year format - youth, rim protection, mobility, physicality (I don't see center scoring as all that necessary unless it's an elite level like Cousins). Big concerns are PG depth (Ulis is a backup at best in the NBA, not sure he should be rostered in this format) and shooting on the wing. Ukcats1988 has so many players I think are underrated (Patterson, Bazemore, Millsap, Jokic), and Cousins is a beast (best player on either team). Paul will age well, and for total production over the next five years I'd take him over Wall (but it's close). Age and rim protection are an issue, though, as guys like Paul, Millsap, Baze, and Patterson will start to decline within 3 years or sooner, and neither Cousins nor Jokic are good rim protectors. Cousins is above average when motivated, so maybe Kerr can get that out of him. UKCats probably wins early, probably Aike in 3-4 years.

I can't decide what team I like better in a vacuum, so I'm basing my decision on how I see them matching up against each other. I don't like to reveal picks before voting is done, so I'll save the pick and H2H thoughts for later (but I voted).

You might be right about that speed/defensive lineup with MKG/Giannis/Wall, but I would love to see how it looks on the floor.

Wall shoots 35% from three, and Giannis did as well as a rookie, before being openly discouraged from shooting threes in the Bucks system.

It's my Coach Cal lineup, I guess.

Obviously have Klay, Booker available off the bench, as well as LaVine, who shot 39% from 3.

I expect Ulis to develop into the ultimate backup pg over a 5 year period, but guys like Giannis, LaVine, and even Booker are more than capable of manning the point if necessary.

Also, I've gotten some grief for the Ulis pick, but our actual assignment was to pick the team we would most want to be a fan of over the next 5 years.

I would love to have Ulis coming off the bench for the next 5 years as a fan. And after his Summer League performance, projecting him out as a quality NBA rotation player over the next 5 seasons is hardly a stretch.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

You might be right about that speed/defensive lineup with MKG/Giannis/Wall, but I would love to see how it looks on the floor.

In the NBA you need to have scoring and shooting especially in the playoffs. That being said, my Lord, that is a terror defensively. That lineup could work in spurts. That's not a 38 minutes together kind of lineup. That is totally fine, gives you options as far as rotations go. I think that's your team's best asset more so than collection of talent if that makes sense.

 

[Aike]

In the NBA you need to have scoring and shooting especially in the playoffs. That being said, my Lord, that is a terror defensively. That lineup could work in spurts. That's not a 38 minutes together kind of lineup. That is totally fine, gives you options as far as rotations go. I think that's your team's best asset more so than collection of talent if that makes sense.

I agree completely. I would just love to see what that lineup looks like on the floor.

 

[Big_Blue79]

In the NBA you need to have scoring and shooting especially in the playoffs. That being said, my Lord, that is a terror defensively. That lineup could work in spurts. That's not a 38 minutes together kind of lineup. That is totally fine, gives you options as far as rotations go. I think that's your team's best asset more so than collection of talent if that makes sense.

Agree that his lineup versatility is Aike's best asset here. Lots of mix and match options, and no Varajao or other older, terrible vet that coaches love to play too much.

 

[Big_Blue79]

It's my Coach Cal lineup, I guess.

My range of emotions on that comment went: Too true, too soon.

 

[Aike]

My range of emotions on that comment went: Too true, too soon.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Had to go with Aike on this one.