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Should Student Loans Be Forgiven or Enforced?

I was 2 years into my PhD program (before leaving for another profession) and I remember one of my advisors asking me how things were going. I told him I loved the teaching part and research was ok. His eyes got big and he told me I better really be sure I want to go the PhD route. He said “the school gives 2 shits if you can teach, you better be able to write and bring in money”. I’ll never forget that and am very thankful he told me that honestly.
I did some research and it was an eye opener. The cheaper, faster, cut corners to make it a bigger profit thing got to me. They had a retired faculty guy going around to make sure the grant was being used correctly. I had some fun conversations with him. You are basically told to hush and do what you are told. Just make sure login to the IRB!
 
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I know it was rhetorical, but by my math you could pay professors $500K per year and still not have that big of an issue. The problem I see is that 1) there are way too many administrators and 2) these universities look like country clubs. Those two costs have to be driving up the cost of college.
My point is it is no issue attacking the CEOs, higher mgmt of Corps because the are the producers, yet professors farm their work out to TAs etc and nobody on the left takes issue.

For those that think universities are making too much—where does that money go? It goes to many things including building dorms that are better than most of what people have for their first apartment. My daughter’s dorm at UK had separate bedrooms, granite countertops, own bathroom, tempurpedic mattresses. But a large portion goes to salaries and that seems to never be mentioned. Just high cost of college.
 
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I have had an idea about this but not sure how actually practical it is. I think for the student loans there should be no free market it should only come from the government. Often times too many students get caught up worrying about if certain loans will come through in time because they have eight different loans. If the government is the only place to get loans then there should be no interest rates on the loans. The size of the loans isn't what hurts people, its the inability to cut into the principal and they just get stuck paying down the interest. This would incentivize people to not pay their loans because of inflation so you would have to instill fees for not paying loans on time. Obviously the most difficult part would be structuring everyone's loans so that they would have to be repaid but also not kick in while an individual was still in school. Again don't have all the details worked out but I think it could be a middle ground solution. People borrowed the money they should have to pay it back. But also banks and the government should not be profiting significantly off people who are trying to pay it back but cant because of crazy high interest rates.
 
Yes 100%.

That being said the underlying issue needs to be addressed. Education has gotten to the point where it's just so ridiculously expensive.
 
The public speaking class I had to take in college probably did as much benefit for me as any other class I ever took. After that, I've never once had any problem whatsoever presenting or speaking to groups of people, rather it be in an academic or professional setting. I mean I still don't like it, I never have and never will as an introvert, but it gave me the experience, training, skills, and probably most importantly, the confidence to do it. Sometimes you don't realize what you need until you are forced to do it.

I like to cite as the prime example of this when I was a graduate assistant in the sports information department at my alma mater. I had an intern working for me at a softball game as the PA announcer, so he did the opening announcements, starting lineups, in-game announcements, etc. Well it was his first time doing, he got nervous and froze up in the middle of announcing the starting lineups. In hindsight I didn't set him up well for success on that particular day, I let him know that and took full blame for it.

I'd never done the announcing before either because I didn't want to and never needed to. Well I just took the mic from him, picked up where he left off, and finished off the pre-game announcements like it had been something I was accustomed to doing. Though I wasn't good at it because it's just not my thing and it was my first time doing it too and with zero preparation at that. Had I not had that public speaking class, I probably would have ****ed up the whole damn situation because I would have done everything I possibly could to avoid getting on that mic 😂.

Then when I moved on to my next college for a full-time job in the same field, it wasn't uncommon for me to do the announcing when I couldn't find a student employee to do the job because it wasn't a school that typically attracted students who wanted to work in sports. I don't really any of what people would consider public speaking now in my job in the medical field, but I still feel like that confidence instilled in me has been beneficial in my frequent interactions with patients.

And I think a lot of the college classes I took just really exposed me to different things - like different people, classes, experiences, beliefs, ideas, etc. that I had never been exposed to before because my parents forced me to live a fairly sheltered existence.

I was taught by numerous people who thought and believe some of the same stuff I did, and numerous others that didn't. I remember pretty vividly being in complete disagreement with the pro-gun control professor I had in my political science class (I was raised in a pretty significantly right leaning household with little to no exposure to any other belief system) while being in complete agreement with the openly proud Republican economics professor I had. I was a stubborn bastard back then. It wasn't until years after when I decided to start changing things about my life that I genuinely became open to different beliefs and started changing my opinions and beliefs on things.

I got to learn about many things I had little to zero knowledge of that I found particularly interesting. Getting to hear regularly from guest speakers who have jobs in their field from a variety of different professions was also something insightful and something that was never really broadly available where I grew up outside of the colleges until the whole streaming video thing took off. Now you can go on YouTube and listen/watch to TED Talks and podcasts and stuff like that all you want!

Perhaps the most interesting, despite me being at most at any point in my entire life a Christian in name only, was the Religions of Asia class. Getting to learn about the real facts and beliefs of Janiism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Taosim, Zoroastrianism, etc.without the prejudice of screaming heads on TV (and locally, being from the hometown of Liberty University after all!) was enlightening!

Being forced to learn things you don't think you'll never use or hear things that don't fit your current belief system isn't a bad thing (as long as it isn't legitimate indoctrination). You often may not realize the benefits of it until down the road. You may realize that you think differently on things after being exposed to a different viewpoint that you may not have been exposed to in a civil, reasoned fashion in the past, or heck, maybe hearing an opposing belief presented in a civil, reasoned fashion may even further believe whatever you already believe!

And some fields of study may not be ones that necessarily generate a lot of jobs or high paying jobs directly in the field, but they provide the knowledge, skills, and experience that are hugely beneficial in others! Like take philosophy and English, when's the last time you knew of someone who got well paying, stable employment working in philosophy or English (other than being a college professor)? Probably never, but those are two great degrees to get if you want to become a lawyer.

All that benefit you got from college, and you still want hard working taxpayers who may not have gone to college, or who may have passed on opportunities in life to pay off their own student loans, to pay for your decision to pursue a degree that isn’t valued on the market.

You post above is the best argument in this thread for not giving a hand out to people who borrowed money to go to college.
 
During my college days, I did an investigative piece on if college athletics was a benefit or a drain on the university. I spoke with coaches on impact on enrollment due to athletic success (yes, there's correlation there- examples- Miami "The U" and Gonzaga had huge increases after success for example). I looked at expense reports and ticket sales for each sport and all of that. It was a massive drain on the university with students funding over 60% of the athletic budget through fees.

But what was super funny was looking at the expense reports and just how much waste is involved. I looked at men's and women's basketball and the men had spent like $250K-300K more on "equipment." That confused me as I didn't know what equipment that could possibly be given the sport uses the same stuff. I asked the guy in charge of that on why there was such a difference and he said, "The male players are bigger and go through shoes more." I replied, "$300K more worth of shoes?"

Stuff like water polo--one scholarship for a player was worth more than what the entire sport brought in during a season. It was filled with examples like this and this is the reality of most mid-majors. Now imagine what that's like for admins and entire departments that are utterly worthless.
 
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Their endowments. No increased funding.
IF endowments can cover it, why aren't they doing it? If no increased funding & not enough endowments, future students will pay more & generate even more debt. Sounds like a vicious cycle to me.
 
So did you figure out where it went?
Basically what they were doing was overordering team exclusive equipment/merch from Nike and then selling that to donors and what not. That and just pure excess. He said years where one team gets a new jersey makes the numbers go up substantially (example- adding a black jersey to the mix).

Now the following wasn't a part of my research but it was from a rival school newspaper- the college basketball coach had a contract where he got like 80% of the away game payouts where a big team pays you to come get the crap kicked the out of you so this coach was incentivized to take these games which always resulted in a lot of losses early in the season. One year, they played UNC, Kansas, UCLA, Washington, Texas, Louisville all before January.

College is a business.
 
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Basically what they were doing was overordering team exclusive equipment/merch from Nike and then selling that to donors and what not. That and just pure excess. He said years where one team gets a new jersey makes the numbers go up substantially (example- adding a black jersey to the mix).
Wait - the players were selling the merch? Or the school?
 
Wait - the players were selling the merch? Or the school?
The athletic department/coaches were selling it to donors. I'm sure the players were doing it too considering all kinds of crap that was going on. That's the reason I always shake my head when we have fans who believe we're clean. I went to a mid-major where they were doing shady crap just to get a women's soccer player eligible. A WOMEN'S MID-MAJOR SOCCER PLAYER, DUDE! You'd have donors loaning cars to players and stuff like that.

But the whole thing is just night and day compared to what you see big successful programs bring in. It's a money pit if you don't have a football team or a football team that moves the needle. So if you don't have that then the students are your biggest donors. They'd sell this BS to the students at my alma mater by giving "free admission" to all athletic events. Is it really free if I'm paying a student fee for it? They'd also say "For an extra $10, you get a free fanny pack and bus trip to key road games."
 
Nice in theory.. helping out people in debt who need it. But college debt is so far down on the list. Let's give it to those with high medical bills, or really almost anything else.

I also get the point that some thing helping those in their 20s 30s and 40s with their college debt might allow them to prosper, succeed and help the economy.. but let's be real.. doctors, business students.. they are fine dealing with debt.. its the lazy liberal arts majors, and they're content on being bottom feeders anyways.
 
Nice in theory.. helping out people in debt who need it. But college debt is so far down on the list. Let's give it to those with high medical bills, or really almost anything else.

I also get the point that some thing helping those in their 20s 30s and 40s with their college debt might allow them to prosper, succeed and help the economy.. but let's be real.. doctors, business students.. they are fine dealing with debt.. its the lazy liberal arts majors, and they're content on being bottom feeders anyways.

The difference is medical debt can be discharged via bankruptcy whereas student loan debt cannot.
 
Heck we can do anything with it. I'd rather see us rebuild poor/ethnic urban centers than give it to college kids.

Right. Instead right now they're making endless loans that can never be repaid, no matter how hard many people try.

All that needs done is a shift to the sba process. Private underwriters but federal guarantee. No special bankruptcy protection. That would result in actual underwriting and end the constant bad loans and bad investment by students. All without being a massive bailout. In fact, short term it would probably result in the government recouping the same percentage of the outstanding balances. Long term it would greatly increase the percentage of loan repayment
 
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Where do people stand on this issue? I know college tuition/room&board is out of control at a lot of Universities and at the same time it seems the idea of cancelling student loans is penalizing those students who were fiscally responsible with their college choices.
1. Forgive the loans.
2. Bill the colleges for the amount forgiven. (No federal funding until every dollar is repaid)
3. Take away any degree or credits and licenses received as a result of loans.
 
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My employer wouldn’t care in the slightest if my degree was retroactively removed. I’d say that’s the case for the majority of competent employees that aren’t in a specialized field.
Experience carries weight. Maybe more than ever. My sister is an executive for a pro basketball team. Not a degree on her resume. She is just good at what she does. Is this common? No but it’s just an example that it does matter that you put work in.
 
IF endowments can cover it, why aren't they doing it? If no increased funding & not enough endowments, future students will pay more & generate even more debt. Sounds like a vicious cycle to me.
Market forces will then take over....as they should. The same reason medical care is so expensive. Someone else is paying for you.
 
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My employer wouldn’t care in the slightest if my degree was retroactively removed. I’d say that’s the case for the majority of competent employees that aren’t in a specialized field.
The degree is only a barrier to entry used by most corporations to weed out candidates. Unless you have a professional degree the degree itself is mostly useless. Your interpersonal skills and work ethic will move you up the ladder. Does Starbucks really care about your ancient greek dance degree? Pour me a cup of coffee.
 
If they had a worthless major like Pop Culture or Sociology they get no forgiveness. They can pay it off working at Starbucks until they are 55.
 
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Stop federally backing loans
I remember a time when loan applications were actually scrutinized, and a lot of applicants were told "no". Then the federales got involved and schools created all kinds of worthless majors to entice the lazy into college.
 
My employer wouldn’t care in the slightest if my degree was retroactively removed. I’d say that’s the case for the majority of competent employees that aren’t in a specialized field.
Great. You just made the case that most people shouldn't go to college, making student loans an unnecessary, poor decision. No student loan bail then.
 
Great. You just made the case that most people shouldn't go to college, making student loans an unnecessary, poor decision. No student loan bail then.
How many 18 year olds make great decisions all the time? Who here was batting 1000 at 18 and 19?

People look back and cringe at their fashion, people they slept with, the time they drank too many beers and thought putting a slip and slide in their dorm room was a great idea so I think it’s not unreasonable for people to regret a purchase or college decision.
 
How many 18 year olds make great decisions all the time? Who here was batting 1000 at 18 and 19?

People look back and cringe at their fashion, people they slept with, the time they drank too many beers and thought putting a slip and slide in their dorm room was a great idea so I think it’s not unreasonable for people to regret a purchase or college decision.
I agree. So stop giving student loans to teenagers. The bottom line: Either the students (who took the loans), the banks (who gave the loans), or the schools (who pushed the loans) should pay for the loans. Taxpayers (who had no part in the transaction) shouldn't pay for the loans.
 
Most of the posters against this went to college on daddy’s money.
Or most of the people for it didn't get any practical education and didnt even realize how to balance a checkbook let alone deal with a loan.... But lets send more people into that loop....
 
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I agree. So stop giving student loans to teenagers. The bottom line: Either the students (who took the loans), the banks (who gave the loans), or the schools (who pushed the loans) should pay for the loans. Taxpayers (who had no part in the transaction) shouldn't pay for the loans.
Hell. do it like they used to.... Look at grades and test scores and let the loaner decide whether or not to loan. Right now we let complete potato's go to college on a $60,000 bill. The school, which is full of liberal social justice warriors sure seem to love putting kids into debt slavery...
 
CBS is reporting that Biden is looking to do this via executive action. If anything else, it's a trial balloon for something that could happen in October.

It's a desperate play for votes with the midterms, but I think this could easily backfire in a way those pushing it on the Democratic side haven't anticipated. There are a lot of Americans who will be ticked at this idea, especially because it will largely transfer wealth to upper class groups that are more well off or better economically positioned.
 
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CBS is reporting that Biden is looking to do this via executive action. If anything else, it's a trial balloon for something that could happen in October.

It's a desperate play for votes with the midterms, but I think this could easily backfire in a way those pushing it on the Democratic side haven't anticipated. There are a lot of Americans who will be ticked at this idea, especially because it will largely transfer wealth to upper class groups that are more well off or better economically positioned.
The leftist Dems firmly believe that they are the well educated smart ones. They flog themselves with that line with every policy. oh the most educated states are blue states and the poorest ill educated rubes are all red. So they believe that they are simply diverting money to their college educated blue state dems as a payback. They believe the money is going to their own and not the uneducates poor who live in and are red state rubes. Very simple. Elitist transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.
 
No idea what this means.
Do you know the price of:
1. A gal of Milk
2. An appendectomy
3. The price for a business degree

If you are spending your own cash you will both know and care. You do with "everything" you purchase yourself and market forces keep those in check. That is not the case when your insurer pays for your appendectomy. Same if your education is free because your loan is tossed to the taxpayer. That is why education and medical costs spiral out of control. JMHO
My point is it is no issue attacking the CEOs, higher mgmt of Corps because the are the producers, yet professors farm their work out to TAs etc and nobody on the left takes issue.

For those that think universities are making too much—where does that money go? It goes to many things including building dorms that are better than most of what people have for their first apartment. My daughter’s dorm at UK had separate bedrooms, granite countertops, own bathroom, tempurpedic mattresses. But a large portion goes to salaries and that seems to never be mentioned. Just high cost of college.
UK does not own the dorms. It essentially forces freshmen to live on campus in these dorms so that the building owner (was EDR) makes money to build it to the new top notch specs that the 'dorm wars' to attract students require.
 
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The leftist Dems firmly believe that they are the well educated smart ones. They flog themselves with that line with every policy. oh the most educated states are blue states and the poorest ill educated rubes are all red. So they believe that they are simply diverting money to their college educated blue state dems as a payback. They believe the money is going to their own and not the uneducates poor who live in and are red state rubes. Very simple. Elitist transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.
I mean, I'm a registered Democrat but I'm more of a 1930s New Deal type. Issues like student debt are where the party has definitely lost the plot with the working class and Democrats pushing it are betraying the whole foundation upon which the party was built. I've talked to other registered Dems that also hate this idea, which had its origins in the socialist wing that Bernie has tried to take over the party with. Why they feel the need to follow the orders of a guy who isn't even a party member baffles me.
 
Again...its very simple. And progressives can't answer why on their stance.

Why aren't we demanding the universities pay them off? Instead of attacking citizens, regardless of your "fair share" arguments, the schools are who did this. And they have billions in the bank.

You've got nut bags like Liz warren losing her mind about groceries raising prices, but not a peep from her on schools raising tuition without any care. They would lose their minds if a pharma company marked up a drug but are silent to what these places unrealistically mark up a text book.
 
I mean, I'm a registered Democrat but I'm more of a 1930s New Deal type. Issues like student debt are where the party has definitely lost the plot with the working class and Democrats pushing it are betraying the whole foundation upon which the party was built. I've talked to other registered Dems that also hate this idea, which had its origins in the socialist wing that Bernie has tried to take over the party with. Why they feel the need to follow the orders of a guy who isn't even a party member baffles me.
Yep. They aren't offering to pay off a welding truck for a Tech School graduate. If college were worth what they said it was then there wouldn't be a problem. Not sure how it's now my problem. I made this point before and was told that college grads earn way more than college grads.... "then pay your freaking loans"!
 
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