Student loan repayment should be enforced with extreme impunity, by all means necessary, up to and including the harvesting of debtors' organs.
Should Student Loans Be Forgiven or Enforced?
- Thread starter College#19
- Start date
I think that was the one guy's point. You can bankrupt a car loan or home loan, but can't bankrupt a student loan.
If we’re going to bail out 18+ year olds because they were too young and stupid to make a good decision regarding student loans, do we need to raise the voting age and age of consent across the country?
The problem would fix itself overnight if student loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy. No one would lend $60k per year to someone who wants to spend it on a worthless bullshit degree if there wasn’t special bankruptcy protection.
College administrators are out of control. Forgiving student loans is a handout to the bloated administrations and perpetuates their fraud and waste.
And it’s tough to avoid the political side that the majority of people who want a handout because they were too young and stupid to make a good decision about loans when they were 18 are by in large the same people that think a 4 year old boy is old and wise enough to choose a different gender or discuss sexual orientation.
The problem would fix itself overnight if student loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy. No one would lend $60k per year to someone who wants to spend it on a worthless bullshit degree if there wasn’t special bankruptcy protection.
College administrators are out of control. Forgiving student loans is a handout to the bloated administrations and perpetuates their fraud and waste.
And it’s tough to avoid the political side that the majority of people who want a handout because they were too young and stupid to make a good decision about loans when they were 18 are by in large the same people that think a 4 year old boy is old and wise enough to choose a different gender or discuss sexual orientation.
Brother, I have the lateral quickness of a telephone pole. So, no. Lol.
I have one kid in college and one who has graduated. I think your argument is more of an excuse than a rational argument for loan forgiveness. There are lots of options for college that won't put you in massive debt. Most of our state universities were $20,000 or under for most of the time my kids were in school. I don't know what they are now. There is no excuse for racking up huge debt at a state school. I had saved money for college and my kids got pretty good scholarship money to go with it. They went to private universities, which were more than double the tuition of state schools and both only had a little over $20,000 of debt. A high school graduate is not too stupid to understand that having $100,000 of debt after college is a bad idea. Their parents should also be smart enough to understand this. They made the decision of where they went to school (tuition level) and what they majored in (job opportunities) and how much they borrowed (summer job, work study, parents planning for college). I don't think other people should be responsible for paying off the debt associated with those decisions.
I also feel like they should not be forgiven as a part of bankruptcy because it becomes something the public must pay for.
How can we say 18 years olds can vote, drive, serve in military, etc., but then say they can’t understand what they’re signing for a loan?
You can't really do that in bankruptcy. If a creditor can prove you intended to do this on a general debt, the debt typically won't be discharged.
Even so, this would be one factor included in an underwriting process. Happens with every other loan.
Treat them like every other loan and the entire issue resolves itself in 5 years; 10 at most.
If you don’t fix the underlying problem, how would this be a one-time forgiveness?
There are still choices you can make that can effect the price of college drastically. Community college your first couple of years to get your prereq's out of the way, then look at local (if they exist) or online schools to finish college and get your degree will save people tons of money. I've worked in Higher Ed for the past 23 years at 4 different universities and I recently paid off my wife's nursing loan as she went back to school to start a new career. Affordable options do exist that would require a much smaller loan, if any loan at all.
Yeah, I went that route. Community college for pre-req and associate degree, then online for my bachelor degree. I'm an RN as well. Online universities can be costly, too. Especially in this market.
Exactly. One time forgiveness means we get to revisit the same issue in 10 years if not sooner.
Enforced...nobody forced anyone to take a loan. You took the money, time to pay it back.
I would be (slightly) in favor of reducing or removing the interest associated with them. But, if you got $50,000 you are paying back at least the $50,000
I would be (slightly) in favor of reducing or removing the interest associated with them. But, if you got $50,000 you are paying back at least the $50,000
I have some remaining debt thanks to some medical bills, but I would forgive some of the INTEREST. I'm not for forgiving student loans at all. Someone is gonna have to pay for it. The interest rates are BS, though, and I'm good with some relief to encourage pay-offs.
Are you new to America? Next to no one understands anything regarding economics and personal finance. Not that I'm excusing people for taking on massive debt, just stating the reality of the situation.
Politicians don't mind giving away billions to foreign nations and illegals.
I also reject the strict notion of "Well, you knew it when you took the loan out." BS! These are people who are 18 years old who the law doesn't even trust to legally drink or rent a car. They have had no financial responsibility and their brains aren't even fully-developed.
A bank wouldn't give these people a business loan yet we just willfully hand over five to six figures worth of debt to a kid who has no idea on the ROI of this degree that they have been bombarded with messages from parents and schools that you have to go to college or you're a loser.
It's predatory practices. It's like the credit card companies who came to campus to target 18 year olds that didn't have enough sense. And I know the popular stereotype is that you majored in lesbian dance theory but this is an issue that affects kids with legit degrees who's getting little return on their investment. That would be called fraud, from my POV.
So I have empathy for this group. I also think this generation coming up will not have the same constant brainwashing where their parents are pushing college or you'll be working at McDonalds. You have to think about how many parents that pushed college on their kid because they never went, are of little to no help on the matter because they never went through the process. So you've got an 18 year old kid with no financial help, no guidance and then we expect them to have the same brain of a 35 year old doing a household budget?
Trade school, military, or starting a business should be alternatives. I think getting the federal government out of this would be a start. Killing the interest rates. Gutting the universities' bloated admin and majors would help.
I also reject the strict notion of "Well, you knew it when you took the loan out." BS! These are people who are 18 years old who the law doesn't even trust to legally drink or rent a car. They have had no financial responsibility and their brains aren't even fully-developed.
A bank wouldn't give these people a business loan yet we just willfully hand over five to six figures worth of debt to a kid who has no idea on the ROI of this degree that they have been bombarded with messages from parents and schools that you have to go to college or you're a loser.
It's predatory practices. It's like the credit card companies who came to campus to target 18 year olds that didn't have enough sense. And I know the popular stereotype is that you majored in lesbian dance theory but this is an issue that affects kids with legit degrees who's getting little return on their investment. That would be called fraud, from my POV.
So I have empathy for this group. I also think this generation coming up will not have the same constant brainwashing where their parents are pushing college or you'll be working at McDonalds. You have to think about how many parents that pushed college on their kid because they never went, are of little to no help on the matter because they never went through the process. So you've got an 18 year old kid with no financial help, no guidance and then we expect them to have the same brain of a 35 year old doing a household budget?
Trade school, military, or starting a business should be alternatives. I think getting the federal government out of this would be a start. Killing the interest rates. Gutting the universities' bloated admin and majors would help.
Last edited:
Yes. No kids for me. But I have a coworker with a daughter that just graduated last May. He can't afford to pay for her college so she is on her own. He told her all through High school "Do not go to college unless you know exactly what you want to do and you have to have a degree to do it.". So she is currently just working and living with a friend. She is 19 and hasn't made her mind up yet.
And that's great! Better to be working, getting real life experience, and giving yourself time to decide what you want to do with your life instead of aimlessly wondering through college and racking up debt.
I will preach the importance of staying out of debt to my kids.
Empathy, maybe, but that's where it ends for me....
IMHO, kids are very well aware of their options when the HighSchool ride ends, they just don't like them... So, they make a decision to go to college on their own.
It's no ones choice but their own (and their families).
There are several businesses, as well as Federal service programs that will assist with college education, either while you work, or after after you've earned a degree...
Trade schools, on-line degrees...etc.
THESE ARE JUST NOT ATTRACTIVE to some kids, so they make other choices that cost $$. Why should the American taxpayer bail them out?
Am not gonna' talk about my personal situation, because there are plenty who have walked further, but maybe... just maybe college isn't for everyone.
Last edited:
And furthermore....
We have to balance our family's budget, please don't come and talk to me about "free" anything to any group (especially other countries), until our Government can balance their own budget.
Once we do that, then we can have intelligent discussions about how and to whom we hand out free stuff.
Until then it should be considered "criminal" and government employees should lose their pensions/healthcare while they spend time in jail.
We have to balance our family's budget, please don't come and talk to me about "free" anything to any group (especially other countries), until our Government can balance their own budget.
Once we do that, then we can have intelligent discussions about how and to whom we hand out free stuff.
Until then it should be considered "criminal" and government employees should lose their pensions/healthcare while they spend time in jail.
One possible approach to student debt relief would be to expand the programs and entities that offer pmts or payoffs on your loans for your service commitment to them
I know certain military career fields do this (chaplains, attorneys, engineers) -
but i’m. not sure if similar arrangements exist for service to the Red Cross , Peace Corps or others like them
That could help maybe
I worked my undergrad off while active duty and benefited from the ample tuition assistance pgm -
Finished my masters after i separated but had the GI Bill help there
I know certain military career fields do this (chaplains, attorneys, engineers) -
but i’m. not sure if similar arrangements exist for service to the Red Cross , Peace Corps or others like them
That could help maybe
I worked my undergrad off while active duty and benefited from the ample tuition assistance pgm -
Finished my masters after i separated but had the GI Bill help there
I'm with you. I'm a big believer in incentives, which is a big reason why I don't support broad student loan forgiveness as currently proposed by progressives. I would much rather see the government incentivize people to make smarter choices, and maybe do some good for the community as well. For example, expand public service loan forgiveness and make it much easier to qualify for young professionals choosing to go into teaching. And even better, expand the forgiveness amount or add some other incentive for individuals who go teach at low performing schools in lower income areas. I think the two political parties could work together and come up with similar ideas that would really help people and do some good.
The current proposals would create a moral hazard by disincentivizing people to make their payments. Hell, even the possibility of broad forgiveness has done this already. I have fairly significant loans remaining from my master's degree, and even if I inherited a million dollars tomorrow, there isn't a chance in hell I would pay off the last $10-20k of those loans. If this Democratic president doesn't forgive the balance, the next one likely will.
On top of that, if Biden were to forgive student loans tomorrow, the next generation of students is now incentivized to borrow irresponsibly knowing that the debt is likely to be forgiven anyway. Why make smart choices or sacrifice if that's the case?
Also - i THINK the framework of how education “happens” is due for a makeover -
Does anyone think a die off of smaller colleges / institutions is likely with certain student debt scenarios?
Does anyone think a die off of smaller colleges / institutions is likely with certain student debt scenarios?
And what scenarios would that be?
I think the college education bubble is going to burst eventually because of the cost. I just don't know what will be the thing that pops the bubble.
Kind of hard to live in a basement when one doesn't exist.
Exactly, these student loans aren’t the same student loans kids got in the 80s and 90s. They are putting kids in STAGGERING debt, with them owing three or four times what a four-year degree at their university costs.
I prob need help here from someone actually in the education arena - or banking maybe
I read an article before leaving AZ that mentioned how the bevy of options offering topic specific ed via free / open source platforms (ted talks and khan academy type teaching) - that plus “crashing student debt bubble” — would somehow alter the whole “market” of how education is sought and delivered
the article wasn’t predicting the end of bricks/mortar institutions but rather predicting that a good percentage of the tertiary/commuter/Jr-College and Pop-Up colleges —->> would experience a contraction in #s
Seems the supply side of career paths / jobs that call for certain education requirements has a huge say here of course
And MAYBE the advent of robotic / non human options replacing some job options all together plays in ....
I don’t really understand what the crashing of the “student loan bubble” - means
Banks lose money on loans that they’re holding and won’t see paid ...then what??
TED talks and Khan Academy are a long ass ways away from replacing college education. Whoever said that is a moron. No hiring manager in a field that depends on having an educated work force is going to take someone seriously if they put on their resume that they listened to some TED talks instead of going through college.
Yeah - that’s true — certain careers will always require the more institutionalized certification process / graduated entry into professional employment
The online access to education wasn’t being cited as a college killer - but one influence on the contraction of some portion of the colleges out there
That still doesn’t sound all that compelling to me either though
But transhulanism type technology COULD start to make some forms of traditional education obsolete ....just not sure how widely available that would be etc
It’s not the interest on the loan that is crushing students. It is the high cost of college. Since the 80s, college tuition has far outpaced inflation due to the guaranteed student loan. The predators in this scenario are the colleges, with an assist from Congress.
One thing would be to get rid of elective mandates for kids who know what they want to do. When college was cheaper, it sure made sense to go for 4-5 years and soak up as much variety as you could get. But, with the cost now, a business major should not have to be in college for 4 years. Get the kid into the discipline and get him/her out.
I think two year programs JUCOs and community colleges fill that niche. I was a business major and looking back I think I benefitted from other disciplines that I was required to study such as psychology which helps understand people - comes in handy in creating marketing plans, and making hiring decisions, English and Speech - helps with effective written and verbal communication skills, History gives you an idea of how society and technologies have evolved over time, Law gives you a basic understanding of the UCC which is the structure under which businesses function. Have to admit though art appreciation didn't really add much to my education.
