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POLITICAL THREAD

How will they rule ??!

  • YES - Qualified

    Votes: 41 82.0%
  • NO - Disqualified

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
OK, we get it. You guys think _______________ (fill in Social Security this time) is a great idea with great intentions. It just in no way shape or form operates the way you guys say it is supposed to operate and is an unsustainable failure.


You guys judge intentions and the way you want things to be. I judge reality and results.
 
Saw this tweet...would've been good for a couple of pages back, but here it is "SHUT IT DOWN"

 
Yep, the fact there are fewer payers to payees each year (3/1 now, 2/1 by 2030....began at 16/1) can be fixed with some tweaks. Surprised no one has pitched the illegals as new cash influx angle.
 
I laugh at people worrying about Social Security. Absolutely laugh in embarrassment that anyone would worry about social security.

People are getting fatter and unhealthier and dying sooner. There are places in the south where the life expectancy is going down. If we stay on this fat course of fat eating, the life expectancy will continue to go down and people won't live long enough to receive their SS.

Prove MF'n wrong. No one can.
 
I'd like to participate in a huge Down with Iran protest. Venomous screaming, death to the Ayatollah, burn their flags, burn effigies of their leaders, blood curdling chants, Mohammed was a goat fcker signs--bring it all. Start off with a huge open bar, kegs of beer, then grab the signs, the Iranian flags and our lighters. Just look at it as one giant over-the-top theme party. Instead of Togas, Disco or Ugly Sweaters---we hurl insults at another country.

Not because I really care, but just to see the reactions of the press, Obama and most importantly the Iranians. And, it looks like fun.

images
 
Saw this tweet...would've been good for a couple of pages back, but here it is "SHUT IT DOWN"

Same "The sky is falling" Chicken Little cries we've heard over and over. If this shop owner can't make it work in her business plan, someone else will surely make it work. I really doubt all of the pizza parlors in Seattle are shutting down.
 
so nearly 1/3 of the US population are unemployed lazy bums? Wow...that's not just rich, it's completely ignorant. You must be reading out of Texas school books. I also hear we didn't kill off all the indians, they self-deported.
Wow, your reading comprehension is miserable or you are just a total fool. I said over 90 million working age Americans do not work which is an indisputable fact. I didn't say they were all "lazy bums". Some of that number simply retired early or have another working spouse. However, we currently have the lowest labor force participation rate in this country since your hero Jimmy Carter. That is a very bad thing because we need more people paying into the system (payroll and income tax) if you don't want your beloved social programs to go bankrupt.
 
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Same "The sky is falling" Chicken Little cries we've heard over and over. If this shop owner can't make it work in her business plan, someone else will surely make it work. I really doubt all of the pizza parlors in Seattle are shutting down.

You must have read a different article...wasn't any chicken little in there...and definitely wasn't as dramatic as you try to make it seem. The shop owner is making it work elsewhere, but isn't going to stay where she would be set up for failure...she is making it work, by leaving that location.
 
Conservatives today don't know or don't understand the utter poverty that millions lived before Social Security.
First, Social Security was never meant to be a retirement program. It is a supplement to retirement. If you are retired and living only on Social Security you're not going to be doing much other than getting by.
Second, market crashes aren't the fault of individuals...nor are droughts that result in farmers losing their farms, economic conditions that result in businesses closing that in turn devalues one's assets at the same time robbing them of their income. There are many factors that can result in one's economic demise that aren't the result of "bad choices". If you are young you may have the opportunity to overcome those strokes of bad luck, not so if they happen to you when you are older.

There is a reason that every industrialized, non third-world country in the world has programs similar to Social Security. Perhaps you should move to one of those third world nations and fend for yourself. The rest of the civilized world has determined that it is better for all to cast safety nets that help assist those least capable of helping themselves because history has taught us that shit happens.

Those things are in an individuals control. Don't want to lose your life saving through a stock market crash? Don't invest in non guaranteed vehicles. Don't want to risk losing your crops? Don't be a farmer; or have a backup plan.

You don't get to reap the benefits, without the burdens. Every reward has risk. You don't get to take a risk, reap the rewards, then push the failure off on the rest of society as a whole. That's why everyone was so up in arms over the bailouts.

This "safety net", just covers part of the problem. reality is a vast number of people are on the teet when they should be working. If somehow we could magically determine each and every instance of fraud/abuse in the system; Id be willing to wager the numbers would be staggering.
 
The federal education system we have is failing students by not teaching basic finance. So we need a giant federal program to make up for the shortcomings of the other giant federal program.
 
When Social Security was founded the life expectancy was 59 years...you had to be 62 to collect. Life expectancy today is nearly 79 years.
As I stated before , I am already retired on social security and worked and paid into it for 50 years and do use it as part of my retirement...Do some of you maintain that mine should be cut drastically...My wife draws disability (blindness caused from RP) and I draw a pension from my work retirement...But, then on the other hand do you favor illegals being able to come in this country and draw benefits right away, especially if they have children born here...
 
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Wow, your reading comprehension is miserable or you are just a total fool. I said over 90 million working age Americans do not work which is an indisputable fact. I didn't say they were all "lazy bums". Some of that number simply retired early or have another working spouse. However, we currently have the lowest labor force participation rate in this country since your hero Jimmy Carter. That is a very bad thing because we need more people paying into the system (payroll and income tax) if you don't want your beloved social programs to go bankrupt.
Part of the lower participation is because there has been a return to more one-earner households...not sure how that's a "bad thing". Part of the sexual revolution was that more women wanted to get into the workforce and not be dependent upon a man. Today the economics of two earner households with children have changed The cost of child care alone can make it financially advantageous for one parent to stay home. When my kids were young (early to mid 80's) child care was $40-$50 a week...roughly 10% of what an entry level accountant earned. Today many child care centers are charging $250-$300 per week... one would need to earn $125K-$150K per year to make it an equivalent expense. If you have 2 or 3 kids in daycare...
 
Same "The sky is falling" Chicken Little cries we've heard over and over. If this shop owner can't make it work in her business plan, someone else will surely make it work. I really doubt all of the pizza parlors in Seattle are shutting down.

Yea but according to this guy we won't get as much food on our plate. Thanks Obama :pizza:

BTW the federal minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13.
 
As I stated before , I am already retired on social security and worked and paid into it for 50 years and do use it as part of my retirement...Do some of you maintain that mine should be cut drastically...My wife draws disability (blindness caused from RP) and I draw a pension from my work retirement...But, then on the other hand do you favor illegals being able to come in this country and draw benefits right away, especially if they have children born here...


No, Slugger. No one expects you to give up your Social Security. But Bill Cosby is right. We need to quit calling it a retirement program when what it really is a "pay-for-someone-elses-retirement" I am paying for social security for people who will receive it when they turn 65 and 67. Yet, I prolly won't get my social security until I'm in my 70s. Rip-off.

But like I said, I stick with my bet that the way things are going most old people will die off before they receive any significant social security.

#ThankfulForFastFood
 
Part of the lower participation is because there has been a return to more one-earner households...not sure how that's a "bad thing". Part of the sexual revolution was that more women wanted to get into the workforce and not be dependent upon a man. Today the economics of two earner households with children have changed The cost of child care alone can make it financially advantageous for one parent to stay home. When my kids were young (early to mid 80's) child care was $40-$50 a week...roughly 10% of what an entry level accountant earned. Today many child care centers are charging $250-$300 per week... one would need to earn $125K-$150K per year to make it an equivalent expense. If you have 2 or 3 kids in daycare...
Increased daycare costs may be a small part of the reason for lower participation. But so are growing welfare programs that actually punish people for working. Many people used to work just to have health coverage for their family. Now there is no need for that especially if you qualify for a subsidy or free medicaid (due to the expansion under Obamacare). Lower labor force participation is one of the biggest untended negative consequences of the AAC.
 
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As I stated before , I am already retired on social security and worked and paid into it for 50 years and do use it as part of my retirement...Do some of you maintain that mine should be cut drastically...My wife draws disability (blindness caused from RP) and I draw a pension from my work retirement...But, then on the other hand do you favor illegals being able to come in this country and draw benefits right away, especially if they have children born here...

Nope.

You worked your whole life, paid in your share. Your wife, now blind, cannot provide for herself (and Im assuming is approaching retirement age as well. Neither of you are abusing the system.

However, consider if youd taken the money you've paid into SS all these years and saved/invested it yourself. Youd be much better off financially.
 
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Part of the lower participation is because there has been a return to more one-earner households...not sure how that's a "bad thing". Part of the sexual revolution was that more women wanted to get into the workforce and not be dependent upon a man. Today the economics of two earner households with children have changed The cost of child care alone can make it financially advantageous for one parent to stay home. When my kids were young (early to mid 80's) child care was $40-$50 a week...roughly 10% of what an entry level accountant earned. Today many child care centers are charging $250-$300 per week... one would need to earn $125K-$150K per year to make it an equivalent expense. If you have 2 or 3 kids in daycare...

Good point about childcare costs. Theyre astronomical.

But, look at the subsidies for childcare. Many mothers are financially better off not working, or working lower paying jobs (therefore never improving their standing) because of childcare subsidies. In turn, since the government is paying the bill, childcare continues to go through the roof.
 
Yea but according to this guy we won't get as much food on our plate. Thanks Obama :pizza:

BTW the federal minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13.

Washington is one of seven states that does not allow a lower minimum wage for tipped workers. Waiters, hairdressers, valets and other service workers must be paid a base hourly rate of at least $9.32, regardless of how much they make in tips. By comparison, the federal sub-minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13 an hour, versus $7.25 for non-tipped employees.

The $9.32 will raise to $15 by 2017.
 
Let's get these waiters/waitresses more money. I mean shit, bringing a plate of food pretending to be nice deserves a lot of money.
 
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Let's get these waiters/waitresses more money. I mean shit, bringing a plate of food pretending to be nice deserves a lot of money.

Some of them are pissed because they were making $45+ an hour in tips...now certain restaurants are adding "tipping is not necessary" to their menus because of the new $15 an hr rule.
 
Wow, your reading comprehension is miserable or you are just a total fool. I said over 90 million working age Americans do not work which is an indisputable fact. I didn't say they were all "lazy bums". Some of that number simply retired early or have another working spouse. However, we currently have the lowest labor force participation rate in this country since your hero Jimmy Carter. That is a very bad thing because we need more people paying into the system (payroll and income tax) if you don't want your beloved social programs to go bankrupt.
So in your book, if someone doesn't care to work at all they should be GIVEN base level food, healthcare and housing. Even the communists made people work for those things. We have got over 90 million working age adults sitting on their butts thanks to thinking like that. Of course, those 90 million don't count as unemployed according to the government because they are not looking to work.

Uh yeah ya did actually. 90 million working age adults(which is wrong btw) sitting on their butts(also wrong).
 
Some of them are pissed because they were making $45+ an hour in tips...now certain restaurants are adding "tipping is not necessary" to their menus because of the new $15 an hr rule.


I hope those disgruntled servers do a Sit-In. That'll show those pesky business owners.

I always wanted to be a bartender serving drinks, making bank, and getting laid for a living. That's a dream job.
 
Increased daycare costs may be a small part of the reason for lower participation. But so are growing welfare programs that actually punish people for working. Many people used to work just to have health coverage for their family. Now there is no need for that especially if you qualify for a subsidy or free medicaid (due to the expansion under Obamacare). Lower labor force participation is one of the biggest untended negative consequences of the AAC.
BS. It is a trend that has been 20 years in the making. Long before the AAC was ever thought about.
It's also BS that people working are going to quit because they can "get their subsidy". First, the threshold to get subsidies in the first place are pretty low so anyone who had a job that provided medical benefits is going to take a pretty big cut in their standard of living just to get those benefits "free".
Also, the workforce participation rate is the same today that it was in 1980 and significantly higher than in was in 1960. It peaked in 1995-2000 and has been slowly reversing since...and still with that we are talking about a change of ~ 4% since 2000 and a total variation of < 8% since 1960.
Statisticians and historians would tell you that the rate is simply reverting to the historical mean. Politicians and those trying to make political hay will tell you the sky is falling and that there is some sinister reason in the fall. I also guess that you've forgotten that the move towards more single earner families was a "family values" item pushed by conservatives.
 
Good point about childcare costs. Theyre astronomical.

But, look at the subsidies for childcare. Many mothers are financially better off not working, or working lower paying jobs (therefore never improving their standing) because of childcare subsidies. In turn, since the government is paying the bill, childcare continues to go through the roof.
Uhhh...higher earners are benefiting more from those subsidies than lower income folks. You can pay for childcare with tax-free dollars meaning that a married couple in the 25% tax bracket ($75K-$150K) is getting a $3000 subsidy on their $12,000 childcare bill.
Add the fact that as a society...would you not rather have children being raised by their parents instead of being shipped off to a daycare 5 days a week? It's not just a dollars and cents issue.
 
I linked the graph of participation, nothing can faze an obamatwat tho.

Ranting about being a centrist and the country needing centrists one page. Next page, mindless potshots at Repugs and BO fellating.

Yellen called the recovery sluggish today, plenty of economists have stated the same. But give Fuzzyarnold 5 mins and any topic and he will spin it into a GOP problem and obama a victim.
 
Uhhh...higher earners are benefiting more from those subsidies than lower income folks. You can pay for childcare with tax-free dollars meaning that a married couple in the 25% tax bracket ($75K-$150K) is getting a $3000 subsidy on their $12,000 childcare bill.
Add the fact that as a society...would you not rather have children being raised by their parents instead of being shipped off to a daycare 5 days a week? It's not just a dollars and cents issue.

Pre-tax dollars arent an actual expenditure from the government. Its a loss of revenue. Minor distinction, but a huge difference.

On the other hand, the low income child care assistance just directly pays for child care. This is perfectly fine, temporarily. But read my posts above why this removes motivation to progress in their career.

Disingenuous at best. Flat out lie at worst. Nice try.
 
Some of them are pissed because they were making $45+ an hour in tips...now certain restaurants are adding "tipping is not necessary" to their menus because of the new $15 an hr rule.
I doubt too many restaurants where waiters were receiving significant tips are going to be telling their patrons that "tipping is not necessary". Hell, tipping is never "necessary" and I would resent anyone telling me that it was necessary for me to do so. I tip because it's the right thing to do.
 
"Tipping is not necessary"

"Social Security is great...if it's working as intended"

Can we please stop operating in this fantasy world you guys live in.
 
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I linked the graph of participation, nothing can faze an obamatwat tho.

Ranting about being a centrist and the country needing centrists one page. Next page, mindless potshots at Repugs and BO fellating.

Yellen called the recovery sluggish today, plenty of economists have stated the same. But give Fuzzyarnold 5 mins and any topic and he will spin it into a GOP problem and obama a victim.
Did you bother to look at the scale of your graph? Here is a link to the same data. You can even download the data if you like. I can't help you if you wish to ignore data and only want to peek at pictures. And nice job there looking at only 2005-current. Why didn't you expand the graph to say 1960 so we can get a better historical viewpoint? <-- doesn't fit your agenda.

Please point out what I said that was factually incorrect.
 
Pre-tax dollars arent an actual expenditure from the government. Its a loss of revenue. Minor distinction, but a huge difference.

On the other hand, the low income child care assistance just directly pays for child care. This is perfectly fine, temporarily. But read my posts above why this removes motivation to progress in their career.

Disingenuous at best. Flat out lie at worst. Nice try.
No, it isn't really a "huge difference".
 
Did you bother to look at the scale of your graph? Here is a link to the same data. You can even download the data if you like. I can't help you if you wish to ignore data and only want to peek at pictures. And nice job there looking at only 2005-current. Why didn't you expand the graph to say 1960 so we can get a better historical viewpoint? <-- doesn't fit your agenda.

Please point out what I said that was factually incorrect.

It was flat from 04-09 and significant stair step down from 09 to present, not some incremental consistent leak over 20 years like you stated. And that is with unprecedented cash infused into the economy. But pls continue with Christian moms staying home, childcare costs,etc. suppositions.

Plenty of articles out there addressing people leaving the workforce, you gotta clear the liberal horseshit out your eyes to read them.
 
The concept was good but the way it was structurally financed - like a ponzi scheme was bad. Had it been funded properly from the getgo it would have been OK, but social security is not going anywhere. The good news is, it could self fund for the next 50 years if we would make minor changes like raise the qualification age 1 or 2 years and increase the salary cap by about $10,000.

On the list of fiscal issues this one ranks as probably the easiest to resolve IMO.
Salary cap you could never get passed but, raising the qualification ages? I could see that.
 
One of the candidates, Christie I think, mentioned raising SS by 2 years and was crucified in the media.
 
I'd like to participate in a huge Down with Iran protest. Venomous screaming, death to the Ayatollah, burn their flags, burn effigies of their leaders, blood curdling chants, Mohammed was a goat fcker signs--bring it all. Start off with a huge open bar, kegs of beer, then grab the signs, the Iranian flags and our lighters. Just look at it as one giant over-the-top theme party. Instead of Togas, Disco or Ugly Sweaters---we hurl insults at another country.

Not because I really care, but just to see the reactions of the press, Obama and most importantly the Iranians. And, it looks like fun.

images

5 to 10 for committing a hate crime. Might as well go all out and roast a pig and have chicks in rebel flag bikinis!
 
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