I don't think they're hollow but I think organizations are absolutely overreacting. Unless you're dealing with a ray rice type situation, the worst you'll get is a few stories trashing you; and most of those from fringe outlets.
Lloyd Tubman Update...
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I don't think they're hollow but I think organizations are absolutely overreacting. Unless you're dealing with a ray rice type situation, the worst you'll get is a few stories trashing you; and most of those from fringe outlets.
In case you haven't read anything I've posted about this case in the numerous threads: I think Tubman is getting screwed and should be reinstated immediately. I'm not why you continue attacking me as if I'm not on the same side.
I'm not telling you it's fair. It's not. Life's not fair. I'm explaining why he won't be back; just as I did when the story first broke. Right now the mere allegations of any violent act by a man towards a woman is fatal to their position with whatever team they're on.
No media outcry? I guess you missed the dozens of editorials and storys written on the matter.
Geez, the drama on here...
The best thing is he'll be able to pick up the pieces, get an education, and get a shot at the NFL. Who cares where it's at if it isn't here? I've moved on. I wish him success, but have no ill will on the UK admin and the decision they made.
The best thing is he'll be able to pick up the pieces, get an education, and get a shot at the NFL. Who cares where it's at if it isn't here? I've moved on. I wish him success, but have no ill will on the UK admin and the decision they made.
Can I ask, where the word is coming from that he will be playing for WKU or UofL. I haven't heard anything mentioned on the UofL board in months (since he was cleared) or haven't seen anything on Lloyd's Twitter. How much eligibility does he have left?
Of course it makes sense. It's what degree are you willing to risk? UK says the risk is too great, but another University might say it's okay. It would be like the Viking dropping Peterson due to his child abuse charges. You don't think another NFL team would scoop him up. Risk over reward. UK has obviously made it's choice.
That's not how I interpreted his comments. He has been arguing in this thread and other threads on the subject that in the political climate that exists today, UK can't allow him back in school because of the political fall out that will take place. If that is true, then the same logic would prevent him from being accepted at any other school. The political climate is not unique to UK. I don't buy the argument that the political climate prevents UK from taking him, because other schools will gladly take him. Schools all over the country take athletes every day that have questionable character (and I'm not saying Tubman has questionable character).
I'm also not sure it's risk/return either. I would think Tubman is probably considered a pretty low risk based on what has been written about him. I think it is more likely that UK has an internal culture that prevents them from taking someone back after being accused of a sexual assault, and probably other things as well. I think this culture should be questioned and put under scrutiny. Known facts are what should rule the day, not political correctness or that it is some how beneath UK to accept a student athlete who has had a criminal accusation lodged against him or her.
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Point taken but I beg to differ. Clearly UL is not concerned about image problems and they have no reason to be concerned. There has been and won't be an outcry. However I didn't want Petrino image problem or not. My reason for not wanting him was purely based on him being a jack ass.
Also the main point was on the issue of these politically correct groups throw hissy fits. Those groups don't really have the influence to negatively impact UK, UL or anyone else. Trying to appease these groups is no reason to reject Tubman. Having Tubman on the roster won't impact our image one bit no matter who complains.
Brave talk. Such bravery is too big a risk for the powers that be at UK to have over this issue. Hard to fault them when no less than the President of the United States has highlighted that sexual assaults on college campuses is the biggest issue in the country. and instructed the jackbooted thugs at the Justice Department to put their heels down on schools over this topic.
hollow threats, go talk to the entire state of Indiana what kind of repercussions can be faced when you go against the current hot politically correct topic of the day. That entire state was roasted over the fires of 100 hells for crossing a political red line, they faced real pain and suffering from business and convention cancellations, nothing hollow at all.
as I said, UK has a current student who is adamant she was raped. and as I understand it her & her family have made it clear to UK that if the person she says attacked her is allowed to enroll in the same school as her they will cry foul as loud and as often in front of as many cameras and microphones as possible.
It sucks, it is unfair, if this had happened 5 years ago, 10 years ago I have no doubt Tubman would be allowed back on the team. but it happened now when rape at colleges is one of the causes of the day; thanks Vandy Rape Crew & Jamies Winson.
Uh, not every school, thus your argument is flawed and incorrect. Given their past controversies I doubt Penn State, a school Tubman was committed too at one time, will touch Lloyd with a 10 foot pole. I bet most other B5 conference schools are not going to go out of their way to recruit and give a scholarship to a kid accused of rape.
WKU's a small nobody in the college football world, them taking Tubman would not even make the ESPN bottom line news crawler. And UL has no morals or values, and anyone who follows college football is aware of this. Them accepting a castoff who was let go for being trouble at another school is common as the sun coming up. The national college football guys always make the joke, whenever a player anywhere in the country is arrested or in trouble they respond "Here is UL's newest recruit!", "Petrino already called and offered him!".
Call it political fallout, call it whatever, but to me it's still all risk. I'm not talking in UK taking a risk that Tubmann would do something else but you're taking a risk in how this will be perceived to media outlets and like JHBK4UK says, how the girl and their family will react. How reactive are they going to be? How far are they willing to go to try bury UK. I think there are plenty of schools willing to take on the negative to help win games. For me, in this case, UK should stand firm, re-enroll the kid and just take the negative attention for a couple of weeks. The case didn't go forward and the attention would go away unless Tubmann was to do something else. The crazy thing to me is the girl is still at UK. I can't believe as a parent, I would let my daughter to continue to go to school there.
Brave talk on the part of the girl and her family, too. How would her story hold up if she went in front of cameras and investigative reporters instead of a student panel?
I can't imagine her wanting more publicity and opening herself up to being questioned, having Tubman's side of the story compared to hers, etc. All a big bluff (that has apprently paid off). If she had any kind of leg to stand on, Tubman would be ticketed for criminal then civil court.
If Tubman ends up at UL, I do not think any UK fan can really blame him or UL. UK fans think he should still be in school at UK. So, how could they blame UL for taking that kid?
An interesting parallel situation to Tubman/UK that is much more comparable than Chuck Hayes from a decade ago is happening right now: Duke basketball dismissed a talented kid Rasheed Sulaimon, who subsequently it was revealed was accused of a couple of sexual assaults that went nowhere in the legal system. He is now being accepted at Maryland. Watching to see if Maryland is called out for bringing in someone accused of sexual assault will be interesting.
You clearly do not follow much basketball because Hayes accusation was after he graduated in 2005. You seem to be the freaking joke.
Everybody forms an opinion thinking they know all the facts...yet rarely do we know all the facts.
Sans Jamis Winston, every athlete we've heard about being accused of rape and/or sexual battery in the past year or so has been dismissed by their current school. I've yet to hear of any that were re-admitted when either not indicted or convicted.
While UL has accepted many kids giving them a second chance, they also dismissed Chris Jones when he was accused of the same thing.
You can bet that schools aren't dismissing these kids without first talking with legal counsel.
Sans Jamis Winston, every athlete we've heard about being accused of rape and/or sexual battery in the past year or so has been dismissed by their current school. I've yet to hear of any that were re-admitted when either not indicted or convicted.
While UL has accepted many kids giving them a second chance, they also dismissed Chris Jones when he was accused of the same thing.
You can bet that schools aren't dismissing these kids without first talking with legal counsel.
That's the problem. Schools aren't waiting or paying attention to the facts. Get accused = boom, outta here. You'd think if all these males who have been accused were guilty enough to get booted out of school, the overwhelming majority would be convicted.
UK administration is showing what rank amateurs they are. Thank God we have some great coaches because if they were as stupid and anal retentive as the school administration is, we'd never field a decent team in any sport. I won't give my alma mater, UK, another dime until they figure out that athletics is the glue that keeps alumni attached to the university. We don't give a crap about their chemistry department, their music department (what's left of it) or their English Department. But we love our university on Saturday afternoons when we are at CWS.
UL dismissed Jones for a curfew violation after he was told he could break no more team rules. He was reportedly dismissed before the allegations of rape.
Actually, according to Pitino, Jones was dismissed for missing curfew after being told he had broken so many team rules that if he broke one more he would be dismissed from the team. They didn't find out about the sexual assault charge until after he already been dismissed from the team. Who knows if that is really true or not, but I heard Pitino say it himself regarding the situation.
I don't agree with any school dismissing a player based on an accusation, especially if there is no past transgressions that would lead to the school believing he has character issues.
Read the above quote from fuzz, it's the truth. Tennessee has had to cut 3 or 4 great football players the last 2 years due to sex assault allegations (not convictions). Alabama got rid of that huge former Georgia nose tackle over domestic assault allegations that were within days withdrawn by the accuser.
For some reason folks want to think UK is all by itself and is a coward on the way they are bending over backwards favoring a girl who made allegations and punishing the male who was accused....but the truth is it is a nationwide trend. I'd be glad to link the horror stories that males who aren't star football players, just normal guys who actually pay tuition's themselves are facing from sexual assault allegations at colleges these days, the number of cases are lengthy and infuriating.
At least 2 of the UT players are former players. Fortunate for them they got thru school before charges were made. They've had 4, that's FOUR, rape cases since the end of the season. Also have had multiple felony theft charges. UT fans brag that they're on a return path to the glory days. They're almost there.
The "fear factor" that makes schools ultra-conservative on "campus violence against women" is Title IX. Non-compliance with any Title IX provision can mean a loss of all federal dollars.
While generally thought of IRT gender equity in athletics it stretches well beyond athletic equity and prohibits sexual discrimination in all forms including having an established procedure for handling complaints of sexual discrimination, sexual harassment or sexual violence.
While there are no instances of federal government actually penalizing a school over Title IX athletic considerations, the increased interest by the President and Attorney General in addressing campus violence has obviously led to a very conservative campus mindset. Here is a good quick read on Title IX basics.
Peace
While generally thought of IRT gender equity in athletics it stretches well beyond athletic equity and prohibits sexual discrimination in all forms including having an established procedure for handling complaints of sexual discrimination, sexual harassment or sexual violence.
While there are no instances of federal government actually penalizing a school over Title IX athletic considerations, the increased interest by the President and Attorney General in addressing campus violence has obviously led to a very conservative campus mindset. Here is a good quick read on Title IX basics.
Peace
Yes...and how much do you hear about it anymore?...Just win baby is TJ motto and the rest will take care of itself...Yes, some self serving progressives may have raised a little stink , but the fan base could care less what happened with him at Ark. because they-along with TJ- knew he was their best chance to win going into the ACC...
Bobby Petrino cannot screw up at ul ...If he does he is finished in the profession...Jurich knew this and I think that BP has been black balled by every SEC team...
This is the same logic that everybody used when TJ hired BP back that it would destroy their recruiting...Hasn't happened even to the point that one young man from EASTERN KY who is going to be one of UK's biggest recruiting targets recently that it was a "blessing" to get an offer from BP...
Somehow youre entirely correct, yet still missing the point. Im not sure how you pulled that off.
Think of it in terms of the stock market. Every investment has risk. This is just not a risk the university is willing to take, in the current climate. Other schools are more risk tolerant (UL, WKU). They may be willing to take the risk.
I agree with that assessment completely. Maybe I misunderstood you to begin with, but that isn't an issue with the current political climate, that is an issue with UK. If other schools don't feel like the current political climate stops them from bringing in players with question marks in their background, then UK has the option to do the same. The fact that UK doesn't points out a problem at UK more than it does the current political climate. That is the distinction I am trying to make. You can't blame this on anyone but UK. The political climate might be more intolerant of such things than it has been in the past, but it doesn't prevent a school from taking kids in the same situation as Tubman, and even worse situations. Don't deflect the blame from where it lies. UK is responsible for this action and no one else. I love the school, but they are wrong here and should pay a price in the media for treating a kid in this manner.
That's uncalled for and out of line. That's a disgraceful statement not only to Cal and the ball team but towards every fan out here.
UK is absolutely responsible for taking this action; as are the other teams that jume to similiar conclusions. It's terribly unfair. Hopefully soon a team will take a stand on one of these cases, and help reverse the current trend.
The only way that the hiring of Petrino would have been a media frenzy would have been if UK would have hired him. I can only guess how the media would have come down on us. Good luck Tubman wherever you go.
Yes...I will hold no grudges against the young man even if he does pick ul...This should be an embarrassment to the leaders at UK...
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