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Emmert Sticking to The UNC Scandal as an Academic Issue

BobbyG_tickle_swerv said:
The ETS threw out Rose's SAT after he and Memphis both failed to respond to their requests, the NCAA warned Memphis and Cal that there was trouble surrounding his test and Cal/Memphis played him anyway. This was all spelled out by the moderator Jason S. (I think) some time ago.
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So you are trying to say that an admissions exam that was ruled good to go before Rose entered Memphis, then later questioned and ruled void after the kid played, outweighs a whole DEGREE PROGRAM being created for athletes with grades GIVEN at UNC???

WOW!!!
 
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BobbyG_tickle_swerv said:
So, I guess that means "well we can't prove anything, but...you know...they must have cheated". Sure sounds like a hater to me. I guess we'll just have to wait until the ruling comes out so we can see who's been embellishing the situation.
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Hmmm, socially immature, much? See Bobbi, that's called humor, not hate. It's at the expense of an institution which has admitted it offered unaccredited classes which were acknowledged as such by the ncaa infraction committee. What we're waiting to see is a demonstration of integrity by declaring the victimized students ineligible so that the ncaa can correct the historical record on wins, losses and forfeit of any postseason results. It's all so simple', it's humorous. Just like throwing darts at the wall.

From your reaction, I take it that you are of the opinion that we are somewhat optimistic in our expectation that integrity will win the day. As program transparency and integrity do seem to be in daggum short supply of late regarding this matter, you may be right. Guess we'll just have to grab a Rc cola and a moon pie and hope the offending parties do the right thing.
 
Never until now did I think the NCAA would do nothing. I thought UNC would get hammered but now with UNC fan argument I see some merit to the claim that technically these players weren't "ineligible". If a player has a B in a paper class or fake class then technically he is eligible. If that class is fraudulent then that becomes an internal university matter and really doesn't affect the athletic eligibility unless the university goes back and drops the credits for the course. I don't see where UNC could give a F for those classes as the students did whatever was required regardless of how minimal. I see where this argument makes some sense. Have these players been retroactively given Fs on transcripts? NCAA is going to weasel on this one.
 
GOING FOR #9 said:
Never until now did I think the NCAA would do nothing. I thought UNC would get hammered but now with UNC fan argument I see some merit to the claim that technically these players weren't "ineligible". If a player has a B in a paper class or fake class then technically he is eligible. If that class is fraudulent then that becomes an internal university matter and really doesn't affect the athletic eligibility unless the university goes back and drops the credits for the course. I don't see where UNC could give a F for those classes as the students did whatever was required regardless of how minimal. I see where this argument makes some sense. Have these players been retroactively given Fs on transcripts? NCAA is going to weasel on this one.
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The intent of the fake classes was to keep players eligible and there is ample evidence of the collusion between the athletic staff, the tutors, and the "educators" themselves. The Walden emails alone can establish that which is why at a minimum most people expect the 2005 National Championship is gone. 1993 and 2009 should join it in the trashcan if the NCAA actually does its job.
 
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GOING FOR #9 said:
Never until now did I think the NCAA would do nothing. I thought UNC would get hammered but now with UNC fan argument I see some merit to the claim that technically these players weren't "ineligible". If a player has a B in a paper class or fake class then technically he is eligible. If that class is fraudulent then that becomes an internal university matter and really doesn't affect the athletic eligibility unless the university goes back and drops the credits for the course. I don't see where UNC could give a F for those classes as the students did whatever was required regardless of how minimal. I see where this argument makes some sense. Have these players been retroactively given Fs on transcripts? NCAA is going to weasel on this one.
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Interesting argument except that the NCAA can do whatever it wants. It could crush UNC*** just like it has other Universities. The rules are guide lines and the NCAA enforcement arm could care less what they say unless they want to bring a school down for some political reason. Selective enforcement. UNC*** is still an unethical and corrupt hole.

Wayne Walden was the academic advisor for Men's basketball. Read the letters in the appendix in the Weinstein report. He knew what was going on and was using the system.
 
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Let a school like Kentucky do the same thing and watch the NCAA swoop in and bury us so far down it would take years to recover. The double standards between Tobacco Road and everybody else by the NCAA is simply astounding.
 
One of many odd thing about Emmert's comments is that the NCAA is investigating 20 schools for ACADEMIC fraud. Does he not even read his own organization's press releases. Why would they investigate schools for academic fraud if it wasn't in their jurisdiction and didn't make a difference.

In this case UNC gained a competitive advantage by both playing players who would not otherwise have been eligible and making it easier for athletes who would have been eligible but did not have to go to class. Over 18 years. Over 1500 athletes involved in this sham. There is no question but what this is the longest running and biggest scandal in all of sports.

Beats the Black Sox and SMU by a mile. If the NCAA does nothing it should disband.
 
This seems reasonable and right to me. NCAA was way too hard on Cuse, but the UNC situation is just a harmless error... one dept had a slack way of conducting its courses, but UNC's grads are smart, prepared grown men and good citizens who keep their own money and wits about them. They also win NBA championships and get paid without having all kinds of entourages to pay other than their agents and families, if they choose too. A lot is going right there at UNC, and i hope the NCAA continues to recognize.
 
I am a little surprised the ncaa's ruling has taken so long. The school (unc cheat) admitted the classes were fake. Now all the ncaa has to do is pull the transcripts. Athletes need a certain gpa and pass a minimum hour of REAL classes per semester to stay eligible. This should be pretty straight forward and simple. I am not calling for the death penaly but for vacating wins, reduction in scholly's, and 2-3 year post season ban in all 7 sports. GBB
 
The NCAA and Mr. Emmert have ignored serious "violations" the past few years that have left us shaking our head. No rhyme or reason. They just make it up as they go along. Nothing bad is going to happen to UNC (IMO.) It reminds me of Politics sometimes.
 
clamdyp said:
This seems reasonable and right to me. NCAA was way too hard on Cuse, but the UNC situation is just a harmless error... one dept had a slack way of conducting its courses, but UNC's grads are smart, prepared grown men and good citizens who keep their own money and wits about them. They also win NBA championships and get paid without having all kinds of entourages to pay other than their agents and families, if they choose too. A lot is going right there at UNC, and i hope the NCAA continues to recognize.
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:eek: Satire? Hmmmm.
 
BobbyG_tickle_swerv said:
The ETS threw out Rose's SAT after he and Memphis both failed to respond to their requests, the NCAA warned Memphis and Cal that there was trouble surrounding his test and Cal/Memphis played him anyway. This was all spelled out by the moderator Jason S. (I think) some time ago.
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Bobby your time line and understanding of the situation is flawed. Rose left Memphis in May of 2008 and signed with the NBA team in July of 2008. The ETS threw out his test scores in early 2009
 
clamdyp said:
This seems reasonable and right to me. NCAA was way too hard on Cuse, but the UNC situation is just a harmless error... one dept had a slack way of conducting its courses, but UNC's grads are smart, prepared grown men and good citizens who keep their own money and wits about them. They also win NBA championships and get paid without having all kinds of entourages to pay other than their agents and families, if they choose too. A lot is going right there at UNC, and i hope the NCAA continues to recognize.
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Crook^ Corrupt^ Completely without Ethics^

Unless you are joking.
 
what has happened at the "university of north carolina" is nothing short of a Ponzi scheme like no other academic institution has ever been able to commit. The "university" has successfully defrauded not only the tax payers of the state of north carolina, but they have done so to the tax payers of the United States of America. Countless millions of dollars in Pell grants stolen from the department of education, state grants taken away from deserving kids in north carolina and Emmert still rides his high horse that this is only an academic issue. No, Mark, this is not an academic issue, this is a criminal issue. There have been countless schools shut down by the Department of Education for far less egregious transgressions. How that "bastion of education" in Chapel Hill is still allowed to be open will never make sense to me.
Other schools that have been harshly punished for less crimes against education (Cleveland State, Miami FL, SMU, etc.) should sue the unmitigated daylights out of the NCAA for not pursuing this issue further than they have.
 
DDS62 said:
Bobby your time line and understanding of the situation is flawed. Rose left Memphis in May of 2008 and signed with the NBA team in July of 2008. The ETS threw out his test scores in early 2009
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Yeah, sorry about the structure, I was stating that the NCAA had expressed concern about Rose to Memphis and Cal prior to the season. There was a good discussion about this on a previous thread (around the time Alexander was suspended), perhaps you'll have better luck finding it than I did. If you have time you can also see everything that transpired, with dates, here:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2009-08-20-ncaa-memphis-report.pdf
 
reignof cats said:
I am a little surprised the ncaa's ruling has taken so long. The school (unc cheat) admitted the classes were fake. Now all the ncaa has to do is pull the transcripts. Athletes need a certain gpa and pass a minimum hour of REAL classes per semester to stay eligible. This should be pretty straight forward and simple. I am not calling for the death penaly but for vacating wins, reduction in scholly's, and 2-3 year post season ban in all 7 sports. GBB
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Regardless of the wording that is thrown around, those courses still count and everyone who took them, as of now, gets the credit. Hence, no ineligible players or other students whose degree are getting yanked.

Can you define "real classes"? I'm sure the "real courses" at UK are different from the "real courses" at KU, which are different from the "real courses" at Brown, ... . Do you really think the NCAA should tell UK's professors how to run their courses?
 
BobbyG_tickle_swerv said:
Regardless of the wording that is thrown around, those courses still count and everyone who took them, as of now, gets the credit. Hence, no ineligible players or other students whose degree are getting yanked.

Can you define "real classes"? I'm sure the "real courses" at UK are different from the "real courses" at KU, which are different from the "real courses" at Brown, ... . Do you really think the NCAA should tell UK's professors how to run their courses?
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See in the post you quote that he says UNC admitted the classes were fake. Not necessary to prove it. They admit it.
 
loucatfan said:
See in the post you quote that he says UNC admitted the classes were fake. Not necessary to prove it. They admit it.
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I'm saying they, and anyone else, can call them whatever they want (and I seriously doubt UNC said the classes were "fake", but that doesn't matter) but THE FACTS ARE that those classes count towards the degrees of those who took them, and that is why you and anyone else who says they played ineligible are wrong.
 
BobbyG_tickle_swerv said:
I'm saying they, and anyone else, can call them whatever they want (and I seriously doubt UNC said the classes were "fake", but that doesn't matter) but THE FACTS ARE that those classes count towards the degrees of those who took them, and that is why you and anyone else who says they played ineligible are wrong.
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EVERYONE is wrong and you are right?? Why did the school do several investigations? Chancellor Folt admitted it was an ACADEMIC / ATHLETIC Scandal? Why did Wannstein call the ncaa back to campus? What have they been looking at for 6 months? Fake Class is defined when the chancellor agrees that no work was done by the students, student attends no class and grades were GIVEN OUT. Why are you having so much trouble in realizing that the AFAM department was a sham? You love to argue just to argue!! Why don't you present REAL evidence to prove unc's innocence?? Why doesn't Carolina release the transcripts to the public?? If the classes are real and the diplomas are real, then why not produce the real transcripts? Nothing to hide or protect if everything is REAL. All you do is tell us the Wannstein report is not valid while UNC says it is true!!! Find anyone that works for Carolina say on the record that the classes were real and the diplomas are real. It is a joke and so are you defending it. Athletes admitted to Carolina who could not read or write or even pass the basic weed out courses. Go read Mary Willinghams book cheated or tarnished heels. If it was not true, UNC would be suing them.
 
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Stepped outside their jurisdiction to hammer Penn St. But plays the same card to do nothing to Wheel for Heels. More corrupt than...........
 
BobbyG_tickle_swerv said:
I'm saying they, and anyone else, can call them whatever they want (and I seriously doubt UNC said the classes were "fake", but that doesn't matter) but THE FACTS ARE that those classes count towards the degrees of those who took them, and that is why you and anyone else who says they played ineligible are wrong.
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Well, Bobbi, I think you'll find you are full of yesterday's regurgitated lunch there. You see, if they start displaying integrity, you'll find those classes don't count toward a degree recognized by the body which oversees accreditation. The poor sap that needed the course to get the sheep skin will find their sheep skin is not worth sheep *sh*. So if said institution decided to (or had to) revoke said degree, said degree holder would likely become, well, angry and might even resort to harsh language like Dadgumit. Said degree holder might even seek satisfaction. Satisfaction might include damages followed by many zeros. (The ones on the left, Bobbi, means more money.). Said institution would become sad (and poor), making said tax payers mad. This would add to the misery from the already painful afore mentioned shorthairs. I doubt anyone is worried about a few extra losses, them dadgum zeros have a way of adding up.

Eventually the media will feed and we'll know the rest of the story.
 
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When all this first broke I didn't think anything would happen to UNC*** but as more information came out I began to think that they might just get the hammer...now I'm back to the "Nothing is going to happen to Darling UNC***" again....WTH was I thinking? :mad: But one thing is for sure, UNC*** CHEATS and nothing they say or do will change that so they can go back to strutting around like peacocks all they want...BUT UNC CHEATS and gets away with it and just because ESPN refuses to really discuss, everyone else that follows college sports knows it!
 
SilentsAreGolden said:
The only ESPN guy doing anything at all about this is Bob Ley and he's been there so long the UNCheat alumnus President can't really touch him without blowing his paper-thin cover.
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Yes that, and Bob Ley is basically in business to cover controversial sports stories (see e.g., 30 for 30 and the Hernandez Trial)
 
catben said:
Rashaad McCants + all of the other Mens Basketball players that have an AF/AM studies degree or taken classes in AF/AM studies.
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Yet, as to date, nothing has been proven, not even McCants' side...as he refuses to sit down with anyone who's investigating. So far, the only think you can say for certain is that some basketball players took independent study classes which were labelled in the course catalogue as having a lecture-style. Everything else is simply accusations, where the accusers refuse to give a formal statement. Unless this has changed it's going to be hard and for the NCAA to find anything to punish the men's basketball team for.
 
Even if it's academics you don't just play the sport you are there for. You have to go to class. If those classes are the ones that make you eligible to play and they are deemed to have been given false grades that's cheating. Therefore, the GPA's need to be adjusted. If those grades fall below the level to keep you eligible then you are ineligible. If you participated in games as an ineligible player then that means those games are forfeited. The two go hand-in-hand.

UNC is going to be punished. I don't believe they will be punished as severely as people think they will be. Seems 10x worse than what Reggie Bush did, but I doubt the punishment costs UNC any titles. Just disgusting people are hoping it doesn't affect their wins instead of being appalled that it happened. Some of the UNC fans I've met are lowlifes so I'm not surprised.
 
crawfords corner said:
Even if it's academics you don't just play the sport you are there for. You have to go to class. If those classes are the ones that make you eligible to play and they are deemed to have been given false grades that's cheating. Therefore, the GPA's need to be adjusted. If those grades fall below the level to keep you eligible then you are ineligible. If you participated in games as an ineligible player then that means those games are forfeited. The two go hand-in-hand.

UNC is going to be punished. I don't believe they will be punished as severely as people think they will be. Seems 10x worse than what Reggie Bush did, but I doubt the punishment costs UNC any titles. Just disgusting people are hoping it doesn't affect their wins instead of being appalled that it happened. Some of the UNC fans I've met are lowlifes so I'm not surprised.
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That is exactly what I've been saying, no one of importance in the matter has said the grades were false. Not UNC, not the NCAA, not SACS, only message board posters and this has snow-balled into what we have right now, A LOT of people who don't really know what true and what's not.
 
Gotta admit, I'm losing interest in college athletics. I'll always love my cats, but I'm tired of this ridiculous notion of amateurism and the rampant selective enforcement. I have better things to do with my time.
 
BobbyG_tickle_swerv said:
That is exactly what I've been saying, no one of importance in the matter has said the grades were false. Not UNC, not the NCAA, not SACS, only message board posters and this has snow-balled into what we have right now, A LOT of people who don't really know what true and what's not.
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Grades, Bobbi? Who said anything about grades except those such as yourself trying to dance around the issue?

These classes were substandard. So far as I know, the grades were good. They were were just obtained in classes that do not meet academic standards. It's an academic matter. According to Emmert.

You see, if there was not an issue, he'd say, 'there's not an issue'. He didn't say that, did he? What did he say, Bobbi? Did you take that class Bobbi?
 
BobbyG_tickle_swerv said:
That is exactly what I've been saying, no one of importance in the matter has said the grades were false. Not UNC, not the NCAA, not SACS, only message board posters and this has snow-balled into what we have right now, A LOT of people who don't really know what true and what's not.
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Deborah Crowder shown in the Wainstein report GAVE out grades. She is a secretary not a teacher. Define False. A lot of people have read the Wainstein report. I think more people know what is going on than you think.
 
kybassfan said:
Grades, Bobbi? Who said anything about grades except those such as yourself trying to dance around the issue?

These classes were substandard. So far as I know, the grades were good. They were were just obtained in classes that do not meet academic standards. It's an academic matter. According to Emmert.

You see, if there was not an issue, he'd say, 'there's not an issue'. He didn't say that, did he? What did he say, Bobbi? Did you take that class Bobbi?
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Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see then. Once the NCAA's report comes out there will be no more room for misinformation and accusations. I think a lot of people will be confused why there's no "hammer dropped" on the men's basketball team...that is, until they actually take the time to read what is factual and what is not.
 
The Feds hammered those corrupt Atlanta teachers with racketeering charges for scheming to inflate grades for their own enrichment. UNC has done this on a much larger scale over a much longer period of time and not only involving Pell Grants and other Federal money, but NCAA basketball itself is a billion dollar industry so the Feds are taking their sweet time in having a look at the massive blatant racketeering that has went on at UNC for well over two decades.

Roy Williams had bonuses handed out for how the team performed as I imagine multiple other folks in the AD did. That's fraud if they collected those bonuses by setting up fake courses to keep the cash flowing. Clearly racketeering since it has involved not only the massive number of folks to run it, but also the ones that have so actively engaged in covering it up and IMO that includes their ex-Governor that put together a laughing stock of a report to try and sweep it all under the rug. I never will forget their little laughing performance when they presented that steaming pile of dung. They thought it was hysterical and that the coast was clear.
 
Talked to a UNC grad who gave me the "Everybody does it argument." made two points . Not everybody does it to the extent UNC did. And Everybody else that has done it who has been caught has been punished. Most have cooperated with the NCAA and have not use their money to hire PR experts and additionally use their influence to spin and try to weasel out of it. Not everyone has the president of ESPN as their Alum who was the Tarheel man of the year just a few years ago. Their refusal to admit the longest running scandal in NCAA history is the problem.
 
BobbyG_tickle_swerv said:
Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see then. Once the NCAA's report comes out there will be no more room for misinformation and accusations. I think a lot of people will be confused why there's no "hammer dropped" on the men's basketball team...that is, until they actually take the time to read what is factual and what is not.
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lol. Comedy gold.
 
Nothing is going to happen to UNC's basketball program on this issue. That's been obvious for at least a year now. Let it go.
 
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