Breaking news. Some guy shoots up a church in Charleston, SC

[GonzoCat90]

Even in 1840 if a man lied and yes you lied by changing my words to fit your agenda or meaning as you took words out of one sentence to change the meaning he'd normally have to pay for it. BUT, you knew you were on the internet and can be a little tougher than you would probably be in person. I doubt you change many things of other people in person.

I'm through bantering with ignorance. Enjoy yourself. (Sorry for taking over this thread. I have stopped.)

What did your sentence mean with all of the words and what changed when I removed Rudy Giuliani's name?

And with all due respect, insinuating that only a "wo-man" would do something in a pejorative sense and vaguely referencing physical harm are the most ignorant aspects of this discussion.

You haven't actually defended your points. You just got mad and spouted cliches then tried to passive aggressively have the last word. John Wayne would be disappointed.

 

[cbpointblank1979]

What is this lib/dem thing?

A British political party. Duh.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

I'm failing to see where he changed anything. You're overall point remained in tact. You seem to think Bush never used tragedy for political or personal gain. Which is a pretty ridiculous thought.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

What did your sentence mean with all of the words and what changed when I removed Rudy Giuliani's name?

And with all due respect, insinuating that only a "wo-man" would do something in a pejorative sense and vaguely referencing physical harm are the most ignorant aspects of this discussion.

You haven't actually defended your points. You just got mad and spouted cliches then tried to passive aggressively have the last word. John Wayne would be disappointed.

The only thing that disappoints the Duke more than passive aggressive behavior is a runner in his panty hose.

 

[wild mandu]

And with all due respect, insinuating that only a "wo-man" would do something in a pejorative sense and vaguely referencing physical harm are the most ignorant aspects of this discussion.

My lady friend is gonna make me a sammich, then you and I are havin' a duel, partner.

 

[Deeeefense]

"National Leadership" was how Guliani handled the Twin Tower terrorist attack of 9/11 assuring not just a city or state but a COUNTRY all will be okay, It was how Bush assured the Country "against" terrorism after 9/11 for years. I do not remember ONE TIME when Bush or Rudy outed our protector's such as the police and soldiers. (Even though it is always the case where a few police or soldiers will get out of line and cause havoc or do something horrible.)

Not one time did Bush or Guliani take advantage of a situationfor political or personal gain deu to the situation but they led by leading and then making themselves not the focus. Or how even General Colin Powell stated to the American people and to the middle east countries; There is no time in American history where Americans came to a country and liberated it then took it over for their profit. (Close to those remarks) He was eschewing the American value system. That is what is sorely lacking from our leader and leaders now, among other things.

Sorry if you want to argue the point but you will lose because the motivations of each party mentioned is completely different.

You're original point was terrorist attacks or whatever you want to call this is a state issue and none of the federal governement's business and Obama should stay out of it, now your citing examples of how Bush and Powell showed national leadership in other areas. I don't really understand what point you are making other than the fact that you hate the current president and think everything he does or doesn't do is politically motivated. Fine if that's your opinion you're entitled to it, but I don't think your arguments make much sense.

 

[BBUK]

From this sentence:

"Not one time did Bush or Guliani take advantage of a situationfor political or personal gain deu to the situation but they led by leading and then making themselves not the focus."

Changed to this sentence: (Then he said I said it and quoted it.)

"Not one time did Bush take advantage of a situation for political or personal gain ."

Please also note: This was ONE sentence. If you two can’t see the difference I have nothing else to say except you can tell anyone you want that you won this war of words “on the internet” It’s easy to win using lies and changing words….Just a word of advice, don’t try this in front of someone.


GonzoCat90’s reasoning:

I quoted the specific part I was referencing. The rest wasn't part of my point, so I left it out to make things clear. (That's the way things seem to be done in America in 2015 (On the internet).)

smh

 

[Bill Derington]

Gonzo, We can try to pinpoint or detect people that could do something like this but I'm afraid there's not really a way to stop someone. If they get so warped they decide they are going to kill, they will. There's thousands of kids just like him out there, they latch on to extremes because they don't fit in, aren't accepted, physically lacking, socially awkward and it pisses them off. These groups or styles empower them, and feed the warped mind and ego.
I don't know how we stop them, it's far deeper than flags or guns. We need to get to the root problem in all these mass killings. Whats the underlying similarities with these guys.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

From this sentence:

"Not one time did Bush or Guliani take advantage of a situationfor political or personal gain deu to the situation but they led by leading and then making themselves not the focus."

Changed to this sentence: (Then he said I said it and quoted it.)

"Not one time did Bush take advantage of a situation for political or personal gain ."

Please also note: This was ONE sentence. If you two can’t see the difference I have nothing else to say except you can tell anyone you want that you won this war of words “on the internet” It’s easy to win using lies and changing words….Just a word of advice, don’t try this in front of someone.


GonzoCat90’s reasoning:

I quoted the specific part I was referencing. The rest wasn't part of my point, so I left it out to make things clear. (That's the way things seem to be done in America in 2015 (On the internet).)

smh

Your point remains the same. He took out Guliani and left out the rest. The part he left out was just reinforcing your overall point.

 

[Deeeefense]

Gonzo, We can try to pinpoint or detect people that could do something like this but I'm afraid there's not really a way to stop someone. If they get so warped they decide they are going to kill, they will. There's thousands of kids just like him out there, they latch on to extremes because they don't fit in, aren't accepted, physically lacking, socially awkward and it pisses them off. These groups or styles empower them, and feed the warped mind and ego.
I don't know how we stop them, it's far deeper than flags or guns. We need to get to the root problem in all these mass killings. Whats the underlying similarities with these guys.

We'll never stop them all but one thing I think they could do is establish a national toll free hot line. If you have first hand knowledge of someone that (1) possess or has access to a deadly weapon (2) you have heard make comments that indicate they may be inclined to commit a violent act (3) you take the comments seriously, you can report it and local law enforcement can take whatever additional steps they deem necessary. In many cases a phone call to a parent from a police officer might be enough to head off disaster.

 

[mdlUK.1]

Is it normal to have the relatives of the victims speak at the bond hearing? I know that let them speak after guilt has been determined and before sentencing but I've never heard of them allowing this.

 

[Bill Derington]

That sounds good Dee, the problem is people will abuse it. Most people have access to a deadly weapon in one form or another, I'd be willing to bet that most of us have said things in the heat of the moment we didn't really mean, what happens then?

Unfortunately there is no easy answer, or solution.

 

[mdlUK.1]

That sounds good Dee, the problem is people will abuse it. Most people have access to a deadly weapon in one form or another, I'd be willing to bet that most of us have said things in the heat of the moment we didn't really mean, what happens then?

Unfortunately there is no easy answer, or solution.

I agree with you. Plus, what exactly is a deadly weapon. Someone as crazy as this guy could just as easily walked into that church with a couple of 16oz bottles of gasoline and incinerated the place.

 

[GhostVol]

Is it normal to have the relatives of the victims speak at the bond hearing? I know that let them speak after guilt has been determined and before sentencing but I've never heard of them allowing this.

It's allowed in South Carolina, especially in major felony cases.

 

[thabigbluenation]

i'm still kind of stuck on Dee's comment about guns again and how we need more background checks to stop or prevent the outlaw segment from being able to obtain guns? really? since when did criminals start going about buying or obtaining guns legally? and in this case, the kid didn't buy the gun, the parents did. so how would a background check have changed anything? i know, your thinking falls directly in line with liberal thinking, we need more laws. more government intervention is always needed to fix everything.

 

[mdlUK.1]

It's allowed in South Carolina, especially in major felony cases.

Thanks. They said he is in the cell next to the cop that shot the guy in the back. two high profile cases right next to each other.

 

[Deeeefense]

i'm still kind of stuck on Dee's comment about guns again and how we need more background checks to stop or prevent the outlaw segment from being able to obtain guns? really? since when did criminals start going about buying or obtaining guns legally? and in this case, the kid didn't buy the gun, the parents did. so how would a background check have changed anything? i know, your thinking falls directly in line with liberal thinking, we need more laws. more government intervention is always needed to fix everything.

Like Bill and I said, you can't stop all of them, no more than a speed limit on the highway can prevent all accidents but laws can mitigate crimes, and auto accidents.

BTW if I were a felon, why should I go on the street to buy an illegal weapon when I can go to a gun show and buy one legally? Your argument is like saying speeders are going to speed regardless of a speed limit so why have one?

why would any law abiding citizen/gun owner object to taking a background check? The last time I bought a gun it took all of 12 minutes. That was 7 years ago, I bet it's even faster now.

 

[domino79]

Seems like everyone is blaming the killer.

What I believe you're misunderstanding is that some folks see what should have been red flags that might have potentially prevented or minimized the impact this evil person was able to have. Blaming the killer is a given, and ultimately useless in the associated goal of not having this kind of thing happen anymore.

Is that even possible? No. But it would be nice to dial it down a few notches if we can. Identifying potential killers and removing their ability to easily do harm is important, because if you just blame this killer, then you'll just be blaming the next five thousand too. Blame won't save a single life.

You can condemn this monster, hope justice is swift and appropriate, and still have the mental capacity to discuss the peripheral symptoms of events like this.

I believe you're misunderstanding that there are peripheral symptoms that go beyond gun control, flags, beyond what online news aggregates tell us. Constant online connection and most kids can't even look anyone in the eyes and shake someone's hand. Job recruiters and teachers complain that today's parents accompany their children to interviews and tests.

Just because the popular backdrop to most of what makes the news today is white racism, doesn't make it so. So many stories from the past few years are being conflated to fit a preconceived viewpoint, to the extent that you can't have a white police officer defend herself against a black perpetrator without communities uprising and online hacks bringing up associations to Ferguson, MO, and Trayvon Martin using all the academic jargon they can muster. It could be this MFer is the biggest racist there is, but the media wont allow this case to stand on its own merits without furthering their own agenda.

When you look toward public policy and legislation instead of just being a responsible neighbor, you've already lost.

Someone denigrated a bumper sticker earlier in this thread. Trite as they may be, they sometimes get it right, as in think globally, act locally.

Go out and there and say hello to your neighbor, Wildcat friends.

 

[maverick1]

My lady friend is gonna make me a sammich, then you and I are havin' a duel, partner.

 

[MacCard]

Good Lord! Obama has a track record now of only speaking out when it is white person or white Hispanic that kills a black person, be it a cop, a nut job,or a wanna be Barney Fife.

I'm no Obama fan, but it's a sad state that people are either dumb enough or just that full of hatred to actually think that.

 

[BBUK]

Gonzo, We can try to pinpoint or detect people that could do something like this but I'm afraid there's not really a way to stop someone. If they get so warped they decide they are going to kill, they will. There's thousands of kids just like him out there, they latch on to extremes because they don't fit in, aren't accepted, physically lacking, socially awkward and it pisses them off. These groups or styles empower them, and feed the warped mind and ego.
I don't know how we stop them, it's far deeper than flags or guns. We need to get to the root problem in all these mass killings. Whats the underlying similarities with these guys.

There is right and wrong. He is wrong no matter who likes it or doesn't like it. Sugar coat or explain away....he is wrong to quote anything if you change one thing of what was said...especially one sentence.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

i'm still kind of stuck on Dee's comment about guns again and how we need more background checks to stop or prevent the outlaw segment from being able to obtain guns? really? since when did criminals start going about buying or obtaining guns legally? and in this case, the kid didn't buy the gun, the parents did. so how would a background check have changed anything? i know, your thinking falls directly in line with liberal thinking, we need more laws. more government intervention is always needed to fix everything.

By making you register your guns like you title a car.
If you want to make a private party sell to transfer the title then you go through the county clerk to approve the buyer.
If your gun is lost or stolen you have to inform the authorities.
If you by a gun and give it to someone and they kill another you would be considered aiding and abetting.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I believe you're misunderstanding that there are peripheral symptoms that go beyond gun control, flags, beyond what online news aggregates tell us. Constant online connection and most kids can't even look anyone in the eyes and shake someone's hand. Job recruiters and teachers complain that today's parents accompany their children to interviews and tests.

Just because the popular backdrop to most of what makes the news today is white racism, doesn't make it so. So many stories from the past few years are being conflated to fit a preconceived viewpoint, to the extent that you can't have a white police officer defend herself against a black perpetrator without communities uprising and online hacks bringing up associations to Ferguson, MO, and Trayvon Martin using all the academic jargon they can muster. It could be this MFer is the biggest racist there is, but the media wont allow this case to stand on its own merits without furthering their own agenda.

When you look toward public policy and legislation instead of just being a responsible neighbor, you've already lost.

Someone denigrated a bumper sticker earlier in this thread. Trite as they may be, they sometimes get it right, as in think globally, act locally.

Go out and there and say hello to your neighbor, Wildcat friends.

Not at all. I'm under no delusion that we can actually stop all of this. I said as much. I actually agree with virtually all of your post, I'm just saying that in some of these cases there have been gigantic warning signs that went unchecked.

Everyone wants freedom and personal responsibility. I'm all for anyone being allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm others. I'm just also not so idealistic to believe that's enough when a kid who takes creepy ass pictures in the woods, wears jackets with racist flags on them and has a criminal record is given a gun by the people who should know him best as a birthday gift.

I'm not even talking gun control. I'm saying there are SO many factors plaguing this country and its state of mind that to just say "Oh damn. Prayers for the family. Hope they catch the guy but nothing we can do" for the next three decades is going to accomplish as much as it has in the previous three. Nothing.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Gonzo, We can try to pinpoint or detect people that could do something like this but I'm afraid there's not really a way to stop someone. If they get so warped they decide they are going to kill, they will. There's thousands of kids just like him out there, they latch on to extremes because they don't fit in, aren't accepted, physically lacking, socially awkward and it pisses them off. These groups or styles empower them, and feed the warped mind and ego.
I don't know how we stop them, it's far deeper than flags or guns. We need to get to the root problem in all these mass killings. Whats the underlying similarities with these guys.

Absoltuely agree. You touched on some of the similarities, at least as they appear on the surface, with regards to the not fitting in, etc. but that group obviously also contains a billion kids who never hurt a fly.

But, there are also other similiarities, such as the fact that damn near all of them have used a gun, or that there was some kind of racist, or anti-government, or otherwise detached from reality extreme point of view that they held, that could have at least made someone around them take notice.

Nobody thinks this law or that method will stop this stuff. There are just some people who have ideas that attempt to stem some common tides that might slow it down or make this harder for the nutjobs.

 

[thabigbluenation]

By making you register your guns like you title a car.
If you want to make a private party sell to transfer the title then you go through the county clerk to approve the buyer.
If your gun is lost or stolen you have to inform the authorities.
If you by a gun and give it to someone and they kill another you would be considered aiding and abetting.

with the exception of no. 4 there, i really have no problem with any of these. as a law abiding citizen, i have nothing to worry about.
no. 4 on that list is too extreme and a slippery slope. someone borrows your car and then uses it to run someone down, are you at guilt. someone borrows your softball bat for a game, but then uses it for malicious purposes, was that your fault.

again, though, you still aren't going to stop the criminal element. outlaws aren't going to follow the law. or care otherwise.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

with the exception of no. 4 there, i really have no problem with any of these. as a law abiding citizen, i have nothing to worry about.
no. 4 on that list is too extreme and a slippery slope. someone borrows your car and then uses it to run someone down, are you at guilt. someone borrows your softball bat for a game, but then uses it for malicious purposes, was that your fault.

again, though, you still aren't going to stop the criminal element. outlaws aren't going to follow the law. or care otherwise.

True #4 maybe to severe , but what punishment for anyone skirting the law?
As a gun owner also I have no problem titling my arms either.

 

[thabigbluenation]

the families stepping forward today confronting the kid and giving their forgiveness to the killer was remarkable. during the worst of times, they showed in themselves the best of what we have to offer. that took more courage, more strength, faith, faith in whatever you may want to call it, in each other than i can believe. i don't know that i could be that strong. during a tragedy not one of us can understand, these families have showed the best of what we still have to offer. not rioting, not lashing out. no need for speeches from politicians. relying on each other without reactions of violence to cope with such extreme loss is still amazing. the killer still only represents an extremely small fringe in our society. these amazing people who have lost so much still represent what is best about us and are a small part of a much larger percentage of our country. i hope their story is what we remember and help them to heal, rather than the story of this troubled and sick one individual. but the media and politicians will rally around his story because violence and fear moves the needle.

 

[Bill Derington]

Bigblue, The only problem with that is you can't deny someone something just because of an idea.
I don't know what the solution is, every nut job now has an open mic due to the Internet. And unfortunately mentally damaged people usually grasp on the craziest ideas.

 

[BostonCat2001]

33 cases of voter fraud in over a decade. WE NEED NEW VOTER ID LAWS TO CATCH CRIMINALS FROM BREAKING THE LAW

32,000 gun deaths a year. GUN LAWS WONT WORK BECAUSE CRIMINALS WONT FOLLOW THE LAWS

 

[KyFaninNC]

33 cases of voter fraud in over a decade. WE NEED NEW VOTER ID LAWS TO CATCH CRIMINALS FROM BREAKING THE LAW

32,000 gun deaths a year. GUN LAWS WONT WORK BECAUSE CRIMINALS WONT FOLLOW THE LAWS

The city of Chicago approves of this message. The most strict gun laws in the country and the highest murder rate. Yep gun laws work.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

The city of Chicago approves of this message. The most strict gun laws in the country and the highest murder rate. Yep gun laws work.

Worked for Australia.

Sure you can ban guns in a city like Chicago but it doesn't keep anyone from going outside the town/state to buy a gun from a private party.
There would have to be some uniform federal gun control mandate.

 

[Bill Derington]

So Australia took away all the guns, yet there homicide by gun rate only fell 50%? What it really hampered was suicide by gun rate looking at the chart in that article.

I would go so far as to say that is a classic example of knee jerk politics and how the people of Australia gave away freedom for what? So that .95 per 100000 homicide by guns falls to .5? The government of Australia will NEVER give them the right to own guns again.

This is why words and decisions should be made lightly when something awful like this happens, we always want to blame something other than what actually happened. A sick, twisted young man walked into a church, the congregation welcomed him in, he sat with them for an hour and then murdered them in cold blood.

If there was ever a time to reach out and try to heal wounds this is it, but politicians, the media, the Internet, WE can't get over our own petty ego's or point of views to do it. The members of that church, and how they've reacted should be the headline, the shining example for the rest of us, but sadly it's not.

 

[domino79]

Not at all. I'm under no delusion that we can actually stop all of this. I said as much. I actually agree with virtually all of your post, I'm just saying that in some of these cases there have been gigantic warning signs that went unchecked.

Everyone wants freedom and personal responsibility. I'm all for anyone being allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm others. I'm just also not so idealistic to believe that's enough when a kid who takes creepy ass pictures in the woods, wears jackets with racist flags on them and has a criminal record is given a gun by the people who should know him best as a birthday gift.

I'm not even talking gun control. I'm saying there are SO many factors plaguing this country and its state of mind that to just say "Oh damn. Prayers for the family. Hope they catch the guy but nothing we can do" for the next three decades is going to accomplish as much as it has in the previous three. Nothing.

I agree. The problem is multi-faceted and complicated.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Worked for Australia.

Sure you can ban guns in a city like Chicago but it doesn't keep anyone from going outside the town/state to buy a gun from a private party.
There would have to be some uniform federal gun control mandate.

And what would you propose? Liberal NY mayor stopped the "stop and frisk", so how would you get the guns from criminals and gangs?

 

[JumperJack]

Tell the relatives of that family that it wasn't a terrorist event! And yes. your boy obama does seem to only care when it is white on black. but no, that is not worse than the crime.

The proffessor in Conn that was arrested mistakenly, wasn't a "terrorist style mass murder" was it? Yet obama had the time and felt the need to comment on that.

The Trayvon Martin case wasn't a "terrorist style mass murder" was it? Yet obama had the time and felt the need to comment on that.

Feruson wasn't a "terrorist style mass murder" was it? Yet obama had the time and felt the need to comment on that.

Freddie gray wasn't a "terrorist style mass murder" was it? Yet obama had the time and felt the need to comment on that.

See a pattern there? He used a tragedy to try and score political points,AGAIN. Even a lib/dim has to be able to see that.

Deefense I hope you didn't miss this post.

 

[Deeeefense]

Deefense I hope you didn't miss this post.

go back up and read my response to it.

 

[Chico&TheMan]

Worked for Australia.

Sure you can ban guns in a city like Chicago but it doesn't keep anyone from going outside the town/state to buy a gun from a private party.
There would have to be some uniform federal gun control mandate.

I like how you acknowledge that leaving the jurisdiction enables people, but then assume that a federal mandate somehow prevents access to guns from outside the U.S. Our drugs are smuggled from other countries, so we might as well do the same for guns? Gun control laws only enable a criminal element to seize the market.

And then if people want to commit mass murder, then they will always find a way be it a smuggled gun, homemade bomb, Germanwings airplane, machete, gas, poison...whatever.

 

[UKWinsAgainYep]

http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/
http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/
Where is the outrage and the crocodile tears on TV??

Oh, I guess it doesn't fit the media agenda.

 

[KingOfBBN]

This is a perfect example of the type of hypocrisy and manipulation from media outlets. This particular site is about as left as you can get. Check these tweets out from the same network. This is to show you how the narrative changes with the ideology. The sad thing is, I don't even know if they are aware of their hypocrisy anymore.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

I like how you acknowledge that leaving the jurisdiction enables people, but then assume that a federal mandate somehow prevents access to guns from outside the U.S. Our drugs are smuggled from other countries, so we might as well do the same for guns? Gun control laws only enable a criminal element to seize the market.

And then if people want to commit mass murder, then they will always find a way be it a smuggled gun, homemade bomb, Germanwings airplane, machete, gas, poison...whatever.

It's easier to buy from a private seller at a local gun show than travel to Canada and Mexico which would not help since both have tight gun laws already.
The Mexican cartels get the majority of their arms bought and smuggled from the US. Why have a war on drugs when you are supplying the criminal elements with a means to maintain control?
True if a person wanted to commit mass murder they will try to find a way. But it's easier to by a gun with no background checks than learning to build a bomb, or to fly a plane and harder to outrun a bullet than a crazed guy with a machete.
As I said I would be for titling my guns like I do a car. Which would also make you have to go through the county clerks office to transfer it to another party that passes a background check.
Then work on taking all the untitled guns out of circulation.
The culture is ingrained deep into our history and would take popular support of the citizens like in Australia to create an effective and sensible solution.

Or could go with my brother's plan of making everyone wear a 6-shooter like the old west.