4th of july ain't about the troops

[the nail at the foul line]

Jefferson led the movement to abolish the “fee tail” or a perpetual grant of land rights in Virginia, during the American Revolution.

Throughout England’s post-Norman history, at least 70 percent of land was granted many generations prior, most by fee-tail-male, and some by fee-tail-female. The fee-tail-male was created by a Will “granting unto my eldest male heir, and thence his eldest male heir In perpetuity all my land . . . .

It was copied in America until Virginia and all states passed Jefferson’s “Rule Against Perpetuities.”

Ironically, Jefferson had been the beneficiary of being the eldest male heir, of the eldest male heir . . . , and so in, for several generations. He inherited thousands of acres, and had second and third cousins living in comparative poverty on the periphery of his massive holdings.

He realized the folly of the system, in part, by observing the comparative efficiency of Virginia’s German settlers; unlike their “English-like-gentleman” counterparts, the German descendants farmed generally squared farms with 200 to 400 acres, dividing the land into crop, hay, and pasture, and annually rotating the uses to build soil quality, and battle plant/animal disease.

Jefferson and many “English” planters raised tobacco annually on the same soil, until the soil was exhausted (from lack of nitrogen, potassium and phosphate, primarily . . . a.k.a. 10-10-10 fertilizer at your local Southern States).

Jefferson’s most famous quote regarding freeing the land from the desires of long-deceased ancestors actually came in 1789, about 12 years after Virginia eliminated the fee-tail:

“It was about this time that he was also seized by an idea that exerted a compelling influence over him for the remainder of his life. This was the belief that ‘the earth belongs in usufruct to the living,’ the dead having neither rights nor powers over it.”

The Earth Belongs in Usufruct to the Living | The Papers of Thomas Jefferson

jeffersonpapers.princeton.edu

700 years of tradition did not go away with one law. Ancestry.com describes the area from Alabama to Southern Illinois as a land inhabited by the second sons of Virginia.

 

[funKYcat75]

usufruct

Dammit. Making me learn a new word on the 4th of July…

 

[UKWildcats1987]

The 4th of July is pretty much like every other holiday we have in the US and it is about people that sell things (in this case fireworks) taking your money, along with the grocery stores and their endless supply of hamburgers, hotdogs, beer, chips, etc.

It always amazes me how people bitch about being broke due to inflation and high gas prices (and trust me, I am one of those people), but somehow a certain segment of our population has this magical money tree for BS like 300 dollars worth of fireworks, a Keg and so on. I admire them, and have always been fascinated with the sin tax (alcohol, cigs, drugs) money tree all these otherwise poor wretches that have no money ever seem to always have hidden in their backyards.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

I never over-sleep anything, at 59!

I’m up every two f@&king hours like clockwork to piss, and never set an alarm.

Love it,

I will be 79 this month and thank the good Lord all of my plumbing works and my bladder usually makes it through the night. I get up every morning about 5:30

Now my doctor recently told me to drink 100 to 120 ounces of water a day so when I go, I go. Sometimes I awake about 3:00 as nature calls. He wants me to drink the water because this Florida climate will dehydrate you and quick. I work outside a lot and water is my salvation. Keeps the kidneys functioning and the bladder stretched.

How did we get on this subject?

 

[vhcat70]

Yeah. about four times during the night. 😁

Glad I don't have that problem at 74. Usually sleep about 6 hours before needing one, but sometimes make it all night at 7-8 hours.

 

[berniecarbo]

Love it,

I will be 79 this month and thank the good Lord all of my plumbing works and my bladder usually makes it through the night. I get up every morning about 5:30

Now my doctor recently told me to drink 100 to 120 ounces of water a day so when I go, I go. Sometimes I awake about 3:00 as nature calls. He wants me to drink the water because this Florida climate will dehydrate you and quick. I work outside a lot and water is my salvation. Keeps the kidneys functioning and the bladder stretched.

How did we get on this subject?

The adage is, take your body weight, then half it ounces. IE If you weigh 200, then you need 100 ounces of water. However, if you are sweating water out, you have to add to the 100 ounces.

For the frequent night time urinators, something the doc told me that has helped enough to be worthwhile re getting up at night to pee. When you pee right before bed, go back and pee again five minutes later to ensure you have emptied your bladder.

 

[The-Hack]

700 years of tradition did not go away with one law. Ancestry.com describes the area from Alabama to Southern Illinois as a land inhabited by the second sons of Virginia.

Actually, it did go away with the RAP.

The problem for my GGG-grandfather, and all revolutionary soldiers who fought from 1776-1783, is they were born from 1720, to 1760, hence from a generation unaffected by the RAP, and “victimized” by the older “fee tail” rule. You won’t find near as many second sons settling in those areas from 1850 forward, but for the Revolutionary soldiers, the cake was already “fee-tail” baked for their generation, helping create a massive diaspora into other states where land was cheap or granted for service.

And as to the rest of the Anglo world, even England in the 20th Century passed a version of the Rule Against Perpetuities.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Actually, it did go away with the RAP.

The problem for my GGG-grandfather, and all revolutionary soldiers who fought from 1776-1783, is they were born from 1720, to 1760, hence from a generation unaffected by the RAP, and “victimized” by the older “fee tail” rule. You won’t find near as many second sons settling in those areas from 1850 forward, but for the Revolutionary soldiers, the cake was already “fee-tail” baked for their generation, helping create a massive diaspora into other states where land was cheap or granted for service.

And as to the rest of the Anglo world, even England in the 20th Century passed a version of the Rule Against Perpetuities.

I have numerous ancestors that were given land grants after the revolution.

The older son already being involved on the farm makes it harder for younger sons to get involved in farming anyway. This happened between my brother and myself.

 

[The-Hack]

This happened between my brother and myself.

Yes. And a single or a two generation control was still allowed, so there are some, today, who might leave it to the eldest son.

In my family, my Dad broadly indicated he wanted to leave all his land to his youngest son, me.

I told him I would divide it equally after his death if he did so. I am from a blessed family by land, and I like having Thanksgiving and Christmas with my siblings.

I would love to know how it all came down in Virginia. Jefferson held (I have heard) 20,000 acres by fee-tail. But that wasn’t all sh!ts and giggles . . . banks could not mortgage foreclose fee-tail land, because the future generations who were “vested” could not sign off on the Mortgage. Presumably, this would raise the price/interest rates on borrowed money, as the land could not “back it.”

I would love to know if the 1777 act outlawing it then required the current owner to draft a will, or risk it passing through intestacy, hence equally to his heirs.

Jefferson died deeply in debt, and I believe the estate was broken up to pay those debts. I wonder if, at least early in his life, the fee-tail actually cost him more for his borrowed money than had he owned a modern “fee simple absolute.”

Obviously, given the extent of Jefferson’s relationship(s)/child bearing, had all been then known, any estate would have been FUBAR.

 

[The-Hack]

The 4th of July is pretty much like every other holiday we have in the US and it is about people that sell things (in this case fireworks) taking your money,

There was once a President who said, “the business of America is business.”

I find folks taking my money even on days that are not holidays.

I then I take some of it back, upon occasion. I generally don’t get paid on holidays.

 

[812scottj]

The 4th sure as hell isn’t about the alphabet society!

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Well technically I think the 4th isn't as much a pro america holiday is it is an anti British holiday.

Basically the holiday is a big f@*^ you to the British

 

[JoeSwag]

And so, today we shall celebrate the day that jesus sewed the first US flag and wrote the second amendment. Celebrations will include the wearing of green clothing, eating chocolate bunnies, and putting roasted turkeys into stockings and hanging them on the mantle, later to be gifted to our loved ones.

Shalom!

This is Jim discussing Battlestar Galactica to Andy in The Office to see if Dwight would snap. 😂

 

[JoeSwag]

I just want to thank the troops for today. Thank you for your service. I know we cookout and shoot off fireworks on this day but it’s really about you guys.

 

[johnny.cope]

just in case you all forgot