You have to be in it to win it. WARNING: numbers

[barryn2000]

Read the numbers and weep..

LOL...you used math and formulas with % symbols to reason with Rupp Rafters posters

 

[StubbornPenny]

They have four titles since 2009 IIRC.

Factoring in all of Calhoun's titles (3) out of his legit 9 shots, that makes 15 titles in 64 shots for 23.4% instead of the 22 above. No real change. Even his extreme outlier doesn't shift the numbers that much.

 

[UKGrad93]

The last line of the OP is the most important. Mike Krzyzewski and Roy Williams are at the end of their coaching careers. What they have done is indisputably great. But they're done. Would not totally shock me if both of them retire next week. John Calipari just extended his contract for another 7 years. He's the new coach of the USA under-19 team, which K used so effectively to land top-10 talent. Last year he got Bam Adebayo out of North Carolina, a guy Roy really wanted.

I think Cal's best days may still be ahead of him. Can't say that about any of those other coaches.

I mentioned this in another thread, I agree that K & Roy retiring should help level the field or even elevate our chances to win titles.

Someone else mentioned the 2012 team. I think that team was just the perfect balance all around. Superstars, experience, leadership, every position covered. 2015 has a lot of talent, but it didn't seem as well balanced. It was loaded at pg, sg, & pf.

 

[Deli owl]

I was told there would be no math.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

This is so flawed.

First you're comparing Cal to the rest of the coaches and teams on that list as if they all have equally talented teams. Give those other schools what we have had and their numbers go up.

Also, what sticks out to me is the two outliers in that group: Kansas and Kentucky. We've essentially become KU and Self. Having a bunch of chances and choking away nearly every single one. And what's even more ironic, Cal and Self's single title have come against each other. If Kansas doesn't play Memphis there's a good chance Kansas finds a way to blow that title. If we had played, say, UNC in the title instead of Kansas then I really don't know that we have 8 right now. I truely believe the 2012 team was one of the best college teams in the past 20 years but there is an unquestionable pattern with Cal teams here. They make deep runs only to blow it when they likely should have been that years champion. 2012 had some different animals on that team but you never know.

Good lord you are a seriously worthless POS. The only reason you come here is to bitch and most and get attention.

 

[spotter34]

We all have hope. Truthfully, tho, I don't see any trial and error on Cal's part. He hasn't changed a thing other than using the platoon which he abandoned down the stretch in 2015.
BTW, shouldn't Cal make the elite eight 6 out of every 8 years with the level of talent he's able to recruit. The only variable is the strength or weakness of any particular HS class. I would give him a met expectations so far. I fully expect 6 out of the next 8 as well. Else what good is the approach?

Well we're all entitled to our own opinions but I don't agree with much that you just stated. There has been quite a bit of trial and error in Cal's approach/philosophy since he arrived at Kentucky. He's signed large, elite recruiting classes, and smaller elite recruiting classes like the one that led us to our last championship. He's employed different offenses that best fit the talent he has in any particular year. He's had various changes in assistants, some by choice, some not. He's had traditional lineups and smaller, quicker 3 guard dominated lineups and also big lineups featuring multiple 7 footers. He's taken in some regular transfer players like Vargas and graduate transfer players like Mays. He's used a small 7 man rotation like our championship team and larger rotations of 8-9 players, even played most of one season with a platoon system which was interrupted by injury. When allowed he's taken two teams on summer exhibition tours (Canada & Bahamas, both of these teams made the FF and I think he's trying to do one this summer). I'm sure I'm leaving off quite a bit but this is quite a bit of items that have changed as far as his approach goes that I can tell. One constant has been his emphasis on man to man defense and lack of imagination on out of bounds plays.

You are right in your assessment of the different strengths and weaknesses of each recruiting class. But what about the mental aspect of being a freshmen and being on the biggest stage there is in college basketball and all of the sudden having your every move watched and analyzed. I wouldn't have been ready for that no matter how good I was in basketball. You think all freshmen handle that the same? This time last year Fox, Monk, and Bam were completing their senior year of HIGH SCHOOL! Now 10 MONTHS LATER they're going against a veteran team like UNC in the elite eight and having to deal with officiating that's worse than what they had in high school?

What other coach in Kentucky history has made 6 elite eights in 8 years with a championship? Don't give me Rupp because there weren't nearly as many teams as there are now in the tourney. Getting to the elite eight back then was not nearly as difficult. What makes you feel entitled to expect this as a fan? I want to win a championship every year but realize it's not going to happen as much as I'd like. There's more than talent at a certain point that need to be factored in; dumb luck, seeding, officiating, injuries, just having an off shooting night. They all happen and even the really good teams need a little luck on their side to overcome it all.

Sorry about the rant but I don't understand the entitlement attitude some Kentucky fans have and displayed by you in your post above. I realize it's your opinion. Well, this is mine.

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

What has Cal done so horribly to the program that he doesn't deserve support?

For the umpteenth million time- I SUPPORT CAL. I LIKE CAL. I DON'T WANT CAL TO LEAVE. All I was saying is you can check any thread on this board and somehow it'll get back to numerous people getting fired up and firing out the 'ol "You barefooted hillbilly idiots will be sorry when Cal's gone. He's a miracle working genius. Would you clowns stop whining about winning a NC and appreciate your coach. He's made UK the gold standard of college basketball. Stop with the childish NC expectations and appreciate Cal. NC's are hard to win and he got one so shut up and realize that he's miraculous". Sorry but I'd like to win another title and I hope Cal's the coach...... but if he somehow is NOT the coach I'll still be really happy. Why is that wrong and how is that anti Cal ?

 

[EclipsingYou]

UK has made the Elite 8 in 6 out of his 1st 8 years here at Kentucky.

Not a single coach (including K, Roy, and everyone else) could have produced those results. Nobody. Look how it takes every other coach years to "turn the program around"

I attribute our "lack of more than1 title" on the fact that Cal is so good at developing FR that we see SEVERAL players that would be multi year guys at ANY other school leave early for the NBA due to how Cal utilizes his young players more so than any other coach. Players that Cal didn't even consider being a legitimate threat to leave early.

Players like Dakari Johnson. Add him to our 2016 team and UK has a better chance than anyone to win it all. How about Devin Booker as well? Nobody considered him a 1 and done, yet Cal had him shine so bright.

Nobody can blame Marquis Teague for leaving while his stock was highest in 2012, but I think it was a shock to even Cal that he left and that put us in a position to rely on Harrow which made it a tough season even before Noel's injury.

There are several more examples where UK has just been plain unlucky when it comes to players leaving early. Trey Lyles wasn't on a single draft board before starting his FR season.

My favorite example is when Cal offered scholarships to Devin Booker and James Blackmon. It was a situation where the first to commit got the ride. Booker pulls the trigger first. Is a OAD lottery pick. What about Blackmon who Cal was willing to take if he committed first? He is still at IU entering his SR season. Had Blackmon committed first and Booker ended up at IU? Call me crazy, but Blackmon is already in the NBA after leaving as a FR (Possibly SO) while Booker is still stuck in Bloomington. Just in my completely worthless opinion as always.

And lastly, recruiting multiple year players has bitten Calipari at a horribly unlucky rate. Instead of staying, learning, and waiting for their turn, they transfer at a crazy rate. Even one of Dodson, Poole, Wiltjer, Lee, or Matthews could have been that one player we needed at the right time under multiple years of Cal's tutelage to have beaten UCONN, IU, UNC, etc. and brought home another title.

After all that rambling, what's my point? UK has the best college basketball coach they could ever obtain. If not for a series of unlucky bounces, transfers, early entries, and shitty tournament seeds, Kentucky would be sitting at 10-12 titles instead of 9.

For that, I do not blame Coach Cal AT ALL. Literally, a few "bounces" go our way and UK has won 3-4 titles in 8 years under Cal.

What more could anyone ask for? I don't understand any fan's negative opinion of Cal's first 8 years at Kentucky at all over the fact he has won 1 title so far. Look at the bigger picture.

 

[docholiday51]

Another big caveat: when K and Roy go away, their absurd amount of chances have to go to someone. Who do they go to? Will the be randomly distributed? Not likely. I know we love to rag on Self, but he's a great age, just like Cal is. I think you will start to see those chances fall to Kansas and Kentucky more, and you start seeing those chances pay off more.

This especially would be true if UNC or Duke makes a bad hire. UNC has already made a bad hire before Roy (Doherty), and if K insists on an in house, anything can happen.

This is a very interesting thought,I don't think the chances will be randomly distributed KU is a very possible spot,UCLA could be in the mix and you could see Wichita St make more noise.

As for UK,the NCAA and most of the world doesn't seem to like Cal and that is probably not going to change,we will forever fight an uphill battle.

I will be glad to see Roy and K leave not because they are good but because they are not what the media make them out to be,I am tired of false front that both present to the world.

 

[BleedinBlue85]

This is so flawed.

First you're comparing Cal to the rest of the coaches and teams on that list as if they all have equally talented teams. Give those other schools what we have had and their numbers go up.

Also, what sticks out to me is the two outliers in that group: Kansas and Kentucky. We've essentially become KU and Self. Having a bunch of chances and choking away nearly every single one. And what's even more ironic, Cal and Self's single title have come against each other. If Kansas doesn't play Memphis there's a good chance Kansas finds a way to blow that title. If we had played, say, UNC in the title instead of Kansas then I really don't know that we have 8 right now. I truely believe the 2012 team was one of the best college teams in the past 20 years but there is an unquestionable pattern with Cal teams here. They make deep runs only to blow it when they likely should have been that years champion. 2012 had some different animals on that team but you never know.

The other schools and coaches recruit at the rate they are capable of. Dont know why people try to downplay Cals best attribute. Coaching and recruiting go hand in hand and nobody does it better than Cal.

 

[catman111]

Uhh he's got 5 titles. Including 2 since Cal has been here. I'd gladly take that right now.

So when Cal wins his next one you will quit complaining? Or will that not be enough?

 

[uky8unc5]

This is so flawed.

That phrase should be your signature. Flawed...

 

[kev69]

Cal recruited prior to the season endings expecting Bledsoe, Teague, Lamb, Dakari, and Booker to return. Only Eric and Devin improved to the point that they were solid picks.

Uh, I think Bledsoe was a pretty good pick also.

 

[LetsHang#9]

Uh, I think Bledsoe was a pretty good pick also.

That would be Eric...

 

[Hoskins21]

For the umpteenth million time- I SUPPORT CAL. I LIKE CAL. I DON'T WANT CAL TO LEAVE. All I was saying is you can check any thread on this board and somehow it'll get back to numerous people getting fired up and firing out the 'ol "You barefooted hillbilly idiots will be sorry when Cal's gone. He's a miracle working genius. Would you clowns stop whining about winning a NC and appreciate your coach. He's made UK the gold standard of college basketball. Stop with the childish NC expectations and appreciate Cal. NC's are hard to win and he got one so shut up and realize that he's miraculous". Sorry but I'd like to win another title and I hope Cal's the coach...... but if he somehow is NOT the coach I'll still be really happy. Why is that wrong and how is that anti Cal ?

That's not what your post suggested. You acted like some UK fans support Cal more than UK. Like I said, what has he done so terribly to the program that he doesn't deserve support from all fans? It's not hard to support Cal and the UK program. Do you think he doesn't want another title too?

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

That's not what your post suggested. You acted like some UK fans support Cal more than UK. Like I said, what has he done so terribly to the program that he doesn't deserve support from all fans? It's not hard to support Cal and the UK program. Do you think he doesn't want another title too?

That's not what I intended my post to say. If you took it that way that's your business. Time to let this topic end. I hope to see another title and I hope Cal feels the same way. He'll probably give us some insight when he's in the green room with all of his guys in a few months. Hopefully he'll give off some good vibes.

 

[YourPublicEnemy]

I didn't include them since Calhoun is no longer in the game. He coached 26 seasons, with 9 legit shots (34%) which is on the high side of normal, and 3 titles (33% of his shots) which is absolutely absurd. His title rate is a total outlier. He got extremely lucky with his chances. In retrospect I should have left out Wisconsin for the same reason, except that's one of those "senior laden" programs everyone likes. Calhoun would bump the title numbers a bit, but again, his rate is a complete outlier.

In 99 and 04, Calhoun had the best team in the country regardless of seeding. In 2011, was when they were a three and stuff started to fall in line for them. The 2014 title under Ollie was just inexplainable.

 

[YourPublicEnemy]

Factor in UCONN.

They have four titles since 2009 IIRC.

Titles- 1999,2004, 2011, 2014

Final Fours- 1999, 2004, 2009, 2011, 2014

Elite 8- 1990, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2004, 2009, 2011, 2014

Pretty amazing.

 

[hotelblue]

outstanding thread penny.