Over on the uncheats*** board they have a post where k hasn't made it past the elite 8 in 10 of the last 13 seasons. Imagine if that were Cal and the media attention.
Wow Coach K gets a HUGE pass
- Thread starter Deli owl
- Start date
In the 3 times he has made it past the elite eight in the last 13 seasons he has two titles. That's why.
Doing some research for the other thread and realized Duke in '11 '12 '14 '16 didn't make it past the Sweet 16. '13 is there only other Elite 8 appearance where they didn't win it all. That was the Kevin Ware injury game. You have people acting like UK isn't contending year in and year out. K gets the pass bc he's won 1 more title that Cal.
But those two championships for some completely it erases the other failures. I disagree though. It just shows that he has not been consistently good year in and year out the past 13 seasons. Tubby won a championship in 10 seasons.
yea but if Coach Cal routinely got the draw in the tourney that Coach K does we would have 2-3 more titles.
Tubby had one championship in 10 seasons. I doubt one of the championship would have saved his job at UK.
Some of our negative fans would view any coach in college basketball as ELITE if they had been to four final fours and won a championship in seven seasons. But at Kentucky the grass is ALWAYS greener on the otherside.
While we know you are talking about in the same time frame for both coaches, the other 3 championships have a lot to do with getting a pass as well.
He is also considered part of the Mount Rushmore of college basketball coaches.
Sorry but this is a little overblown imo. We lost to WV in 2009, who Duke soundly beat in the final four. Duke had to beat a 3 seed Baylor in Dallas to get to the FF. Had that been UK's draw there would have been moaning and gnashing of teeth like Marquette in 03'. We lost to Wisconsin in the FF in 2015 and who did Duke beat in the title game. Both years Duke has won during cals tenure they beat who we failed to.
In 2015 they were the benefactor of big upsets allowing them to play a 7 seed Michigan state in the final four but they capitalized and won the games they should. We were the better team against uconn in 2011 and 2014 and let them both slip away otherwise we are looking at 3 titles instead of 1. You have to make the most of the opportunities before you, Duke has done that, we have not.
Four more titles. That's why he gets a pass.
But yeah, March has been kind of unfriendly in the last decade, outside of those titles.
A quick comparison of the 2 since Cal arrived here:
Elite Eights
Cal - 6
K - 3
Final Fours
Cal - 4
K - 2
National Runner Up
Cal - 1
K - 0
National Titles
Cal - 1
K - 2
Cal has definitely had more success getting further in the tournament on a consistent basis. K has had more success winning titles. The big question is which would you rather have as a fan?
Elite Eights
Cal - 6
K - 3
Final Fours
Cal - 4
K - 2
National Runner Up
Cal - 1
K - 0
National Titles
Cal - 1
K - 2
Cal has definitely had more success getting further in the tournament on a consistent basis. K has had more success winning titles. The big question is which would you rather have as a fan?
![[winking]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/wink.r191677.gif "Winking [winking]")
Spin it however you wish. Bottom line: Coach K is probably the best college coach in the history of the game. Stats prove it out, regardless of early exits in the NCAAT.
If Cal had won four championships, he'd get plenty of passes. But probably not as many....
If Cal had won four championships, he'd get plenty of passes. But probably not as many....
Goes back further than a decade. Lost in the Sweet 16 as a 1 seed in 2000, 2002, 2005, and 2006.
It's been all or nothing for Duke for quite a while now. And people forget how Krzyzewski started. He made the FF and lost in 86, 88, 89, and 90. Also interesting to note that Roy Williams was considered a choke artist when he left Kansas (numerous upset losses, 4 FF appearances and no title), that Billy Donovan spent 5 years flopping in the tourney after his 2000 breakthrough, and that Jim Calhoun spent the 90's failing to make FF's before winning it in 99.
People think there's some magic formula for winning titles, and there actually is- get great players and keep them for a while, then have nothing go horribly wrong for any single game in the tournament. But good luck with that. Good luck picking out the guys who are excellent in college but not great pro prospects. Good luck finding the 5 star guy who might end up playing 2-3 years, but isn't a flop. And good luck avoiding the one bad night that can ruin your season.
If you can't do those things (and guess what? No one can), then the best you can ask for is to consistently be in the hunt, until things break your way. Frustrating that Cal hasn't been able to get a 2nd title, especially frustrating that 2015 couldn't close, but hardly unprecedented. The best team Krzyzewski ever coached didn't win it all (98-99), the best team Roy Williams had at Kansas (96-97) didn't even make the FF. Dean Smith probably coached about 5 teams that were better than his 93 team that won a title, and 4 of those didn't win it.
It's been all or nothing for Duke for quite a while now. And people forget how Krzyzewski started. He made the FF and lost in 86, 88, 89, and 90. Also interesting to note that Roy Williams was considered a choke artist when he left Kansas (numerous upset losses, 4 FF appearances and no title), that Billy Donovan spent 5 years flopping in the tourney after his 2000 breakthrough, and that Jim Calhoun spent the 90's failing to make FF's before winning it in 99.
People think there's some magic formula for winning titles, and there actually is- get great players and keep them for a while, then have nothing go horribly wrong for any single game in the tournament. But good luck with that. Good luck picking out the guys who are excellent in college but not great pro prospects. Good luck finding the 5 star guy who might end up playing 2-3 years, but isn't a flop. And good luck avoiding the one bad night that can ruin your season.
If you can't do those things (and guess what? No one can), then the best you can ask for is to consistently be in the hunt, until things break your way. Frustrating that Cal hasn't been able to get a 2nd title, especially frustrating that 2015 couldn't close, but hardly unprecedented. The best team Krzyzewski ever coached didn't win it all (98-99), the best team Roy Williams had at Kansas (96-97) didn't even make the FF. Dean Smith probably coached about 5 teams that were better than his 93 team that won a title, and 4 of those didn't win it.
Every Dukie knows when K retires they are going to hit rock bottom. All his little leaches from past teams have tried and failed miserably at the coaching gig. They don't get buy with the harassment and intimidation of refs like K does. So who will replace him ? Capel,Collins (actually had good season),Wojo,Dawkins.
I'd take two titles over the other stuff. That's all anyone remembers. It's the one who wins the last game of the season.
I'd take UConn's titles and flop seasons over a Tom Izzo who consistently makes Final Fours.
I'd take UConn's titles and flop seasons over a Tom Izzo who consistently makes Final Fours.
Sad but true.
As for Tubby he had the 1 championship in his first season with someone elses roster. Now I've always given credit to Tubby for guiding those guys to that championship but it was a slow decline from there on out. The years K didn't make it to the elite eight they were upset in the tourney. Meaning most expected them to go further. They had the personnel to go further. In Tubby's last few years making the sweet 16 would have been considered a great achievement for the roster he had. Kentucky fans don't like to be viewed as a "cinderella" team if they advance in the tourney. That's how it would have been seen if he had advanced with his last few teams.
I completely ignore those fans who are not beyond satisfied with the job Cal has done at Kentucky. There are times for criticism, he's not perfect, as none of us are perfect either. But he usually has us primed for a deep tourney run. That's all I can ask of the man. Teams hate to see us on their side of the bracket.
Love that its all about championships when comparing Cal and K but NOT when comparing K and Wooden- you know the guy who has him doubled up.
I would still rather have Cal, because we almost always have a shot at the title. Twice as many FFs. Also, he's way younger. Plus I can't stand ratface.
ya let's be real
they play in their home state to start every year except this one and they get cakewalk seeding and way easier seeds to play against
Kentucky's bracket is always STACKED and we have to deal with the refs as well
If Tubby had got another title in those ten years he would still be our coach today in my opinion.
I don't believe that you'd trade championships for merely having a shot at winning them. They're too hard to get. Personally, I'd rather win two championships and have three early exits from the tournament than to win one championship and not have any early exits.
I think something very frustrating about this is that when UK gets a 1 seed they don't seem to be done any favors. UK as a 1 seed since Cal has been here have been pitted against Duke, Kansas, and WVU as 2 seeds. Meanwhile, Duke has had the same number of 1 seeds in that span, often in the same years UK is a one seed, and has been pitted against San Diego State, Villanova, and Gonzaga. It is a small sample size, but still quite strange that Kentucky faces two of the largest fanbases in the entire country and three teams who have combined to go to 32 Final Fours while Duke faced three teams who have a combined 6 Final Fours.
You say that now, and it's always easy to to say it in retrospect. But there's an entire process at work that you're ignoring. People on this board were having a collective hissy fit by the middle of the 13-14 season, less than 2 years removed from winning a title. You act like it was somehow predictable that Krzyzewski was going to get a title in 2010 when he was coming off a 5 year stretch of not even making an Elite 8, or that UConn fans knew that an 18-16 NIT season was going to be followed by hanging a banner, or that UNC having a 3 season stretch of 75-33, with at least 10 losses every year (making for 4 ten loss seasons out of 6 from 10-15), was going to lead into the last 2 years.
From the historical perspective, you are pretty much right that titles count for way more. And that pressure falls on Cal's shoulders, because his legacy is very different if he wins another title. But as a fan, you don't have the luxury of making the "give up 3 FF's for an extra title" trade. You can claim that it would make you happy, but that's only from the position of right now. While it's actually going on, you want success, and you want realistic hope. And Cal has provided that way better than anyone else.
I take National titles, regular season wins, Final Fours, Elite 8's, Sweet Sixteens, exhibition wins, etc. and even loses I just love UK basketball.
four more titles than cal. I hate the rat, but he has won a great deal.
Honestly, here is a statistic on UK that stuck out to me: 20 teams in the NBA have UK Alumni. Give cal a ten more years, and he'll deliver us two more titles and more final fours than izzo. BBN, we got this!
There are two different questions here that people don't seem to separate:
Which run would you rather have as a fan?
K's run.
Which run do you think is more difficult to achieve?
Probably Cal's run.
This is why you can acknowledge that you'd rather have the two titles while still not turning around and saying "therefore Cal is a failure".
I believe wv won the big east that year no? And they were up for discussion for being a 1 seed. We had to play them in syracuse. Id actually rather play baylor in dallas than wv in syracuse.
In 2015 the fact that we had to play eisco sin in the semifinal was absurd. Duke should have been playing them in the semifinal not us. We were the number overall seed. All the best teams were on our side of the bracket.
I meant during his time at UK. I agree with you. Think he delivers at least one more title here before he calls it quit at UK
I'll probably get roasted for this, but I wouldn't trade our run with Dukes since Cal has been here. It's been a fun 8 years despite a couple hiccups and only 1 title. I don't think our fan-base would have taken too kindly to a 2/15 seed loss to Lehigh AND Mercer before getting that second championship.
Deli, not just the media, but the fans. Coaches get paid more in one year then most Americans make in a lifetime. I feel they should be held accountable. If they aren't doing the job, GET RID OF THEM, just like any other job. Excuses don't cut it with most bosses. With the amount of money coaches are paid, they need to produce winners.
OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
