Would Juzang have started over Boston or Clarke

[Jamal Sunburn]

The gap between Whitney and Quickly was a lot broader though. Whitney was a complete liability when he was on the court. He basically did nothing. The idea that he was even considered as a starter by itself is an indication of a problem. Boston however was at least a 10+ ppg scorer. Just a really bad shooter. While Boston was not good enough to play over Juzang, the reality is he would have. And Boston even though not good enough to win over Juzang, he was good enough for Cal to keep him out there.

It's like others on this thread have pointed out. Cal has his favorites and merit has nothing to do with it. Well, at least very little. It is possible to out play one of Cal's perceived one and dones, but your margin of error is incredibly small.

Not really.

I saw a clip of Boston and Clarke hooping with Juzang over the summer. And he appeared to be a superior player. So in HS he was projected to be a superior player.
On the same court albeit in an open run setting looked like a superior player.
Draft projections had him pegged as a superior player.

Then it is very conceivable that he would've shown in practice and during the off-season that he might have an edge on Juzang. And for whatever reason it did not come together for Boston during a COVID season without a full off-season with the team in front of small crowds. So he did not produce as much as Juzang did under these circumstances.

 

[aikenite4uk]

Maybe because he was playing better than Quick all summer or in practice.

Maybe because he provided more size at the position and Cal preferred that look.

Maybe because it was a vote of confidence and Quick being the older player knew his time would come.

Maybe it was to light a fire under Quick.

That's simply off the top of my head all being more logical than "OMG.... RANKINGS! DRAFT!"

Y'all do realize Quick was ranked higher than Herro right?

I can't conceive of # 1
I can't conceive you'd play a complete stiff over Quick and Juzang
You don't give PT unless you earn it. Vote of confidence should go to the better player.
Quick doesn't seem like the kind of guy who needs a fire lit...tended to give his all.

So, nice theories that don't wash. The real reason, based upon numerous examples, is Cal plays favorites. Pure and simple.

 

[STL_Cat]

And for whatever reason it did not come together for Boston during a COVID season without a full off-season with the team in front of small crowds. So he did not produce as much as Juzang did under these circumstances.

Good lord with these excuses

 

[IL Wildcat]

Shouldn't be promising playing time. That's for the second tier programs. One could argue we'd be way better off if some of his minutes went to Juzang.

I don't know if a promise to start was made. I'm just speculating. But it happens, even if it shouldn't. You'd have to be pretty naive to think that isn't promised or at least implied all all time, even in high major programs. The real problem here is that Whitney wasn't ready. But what did Cal do? He benched him. That's the point. Some of his minutes eventually did go to Juzang. Johnny wasn't ready on day one. I'm sure you remember. Most of those minutes went immediately to Quickley.

Look, here's the deal. Many of you are angry at Cal. I'm not happy with him, either, right now. I've very disappointed UK didn't make the Dance. There is no excuse for that. But this attack on Cal for not playing Allen just for spite or just because he only plays the 5-star guys, is just not a valid argument. It makes zero sense to not play a guy who you truly believe could actually help the team win. Just to spite the fans? Just to spite Allen? Why is Allen returning if he thinks Cal is benching him out of spite?

No, it is perfectly reasonable to believe that, if Juzang performed at UK this season the way that he has at UCLA, Cal would have played him and he eventually would have gained the starting job. We have precedent to know this is true.

By the way, it's not just with Whitney and Quickley. It was also with Herro when Quickley and Quade Green were higher rated. It was with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander when Quade Green was higher rated. In each case, the lower rated player didn't begin the year starting (or wasn't expected to start) but eventually won the job. These are just examples from the last 3 years.

As I say, there is no reason to believe that Juzang wouldn't have started this season at UK.

 

[aikenite4uk]

I don't know if a promise to start was made. I'm just speculating. But it happens, even if it shouldn't. You'd have to be pretty naive to think that isn't promised or at least implied all all time, even in high major programs. The real problem here is that Whitney wasn't ready. But what did Cal do? He benched him. That's the point. Some of his minutes eventually did go to Juzang. Johnny wasn't ready on day one. I'm sure you remember. Most of those minutes went immediately to Quickley.

Look, here's the deal. Many of you are angry at Cal. I'm not happy with him, either, right now. I've very disappointed UK didn't make the Dance. There is no excuse for that. But this attack on Cal for not playing Allen just for spite or just because he only plays the 5-star guys, is just not a valid argument. It makes zero sense to not play a guy who you truly believe could actually help the team win. Just to spite the fans? Just to spite Allen? Why is Allen returning if he thinks Cal is benching him out of spite?

No, it is perfectly reasonable to believe that, if Juzang performed at UK this season the way that he has at UCLA, Cal would have played him and he eventually would have gained the starting job. We have precedent to know this is true.

By the way, it's not just with Whitney and Quickley. It was also with Herro when Quickley and Quade Green were higher rated. It was with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander when Quade Green was higher rated. In each case, the lower rated player didn't begin the year starting (or wasn't expected to start) but eventually won the job. These are just examples from the last 3 years.

As I say, there is no reason to believe that Juzang wouldn't have started this season at UK.

Why wouldn't lower rated players, who proved their worth in practice, start ahead of higher rated players? I posted on this board it was painfully obvious SGA was miles better than Green. Can Cal not see that? Can Cal not see that Whitney was overrated in HS and was just not very good when he got to UK. Maybe it isn't bias on Cal's part....maybe he's just a poor talent evaluator. Personally, I think it's a combination of both.

 

[IL Wildcat]

Why wouldn't lower rated players, who proved their worth in practice, start ahead of higher rated players? I posted on this board it was painfully obvious SGA was miles better than Green. Can Cal not see that? Can Cal not see that Whitney was overrated in HS and was just not very good when he got to UK. Maybe it isn't bias on Cal's part....maybe he's just a poor talent evaluator. Personally, I think it's a combination of both.

That wasn't the argument being made here. The argument was that Juzang would have had ZERO chance of starting for UK this year. Not a snowball's chance in hades. That is an extreme take and not reasonable at all.

As for your question, it takes time to realize what you've got or for players to develop confidence. And I'm sure you're aware that there are guys who perform well in practice but wilt in games. And there are other guys who don't do so well in practice but rise to the occasion when the game starts. Practice performance is big but game performance is bigger. There are many reasons why one player would start at the beginning of a season and another would eventually win the job that doesn't involve attacking the coach's ability to evaluate talent or personal bias toward certain players.

 

[Jamal Sunburn]

I can't conceive of # 1
I can't conceive you'd play a complete stiff over Quick and Juzang
You don't give PT unless you earn it. Vote of confidence should go to the better player.
Quick doesn't seem like the kind of guy who needs a fire lit...tended to give his all.

So, nice theories that don't wash. The real reason, based upon numerous examples, is Cal plays favorites. Pure and simple.

A complete stiff? A complete stiff who was receiving rave reviews by talent evaluators before struggling at UK?

You do not know what was earned or what wasn't. Unless you are at practice. If so, let me know.

It's Cal's team. Not your team. If Cal feels the squad projects better with Whitney starting and Quick coming off the bench to spell either one of our guards than it's his decision to make. And he is playing the long game to win a title.

 

[Jamal Sunburn]

Good lord with these excuses

Yet they are excuses that are grounded in the reality of the situation. Unlike, "OMG Cal does not know what he's doing now and needs to be pushed out because the game has passed him by!!!!!!!!" That is ridiculous.

 

[Jamal Sunburn]

I don't know if a promise to start was made. I'm just speculating. But it happens, even if it shouldn't. You'd have to be pretty naive to think that isn't promised or at least implied all all time, even in high major programs. The real problem here is that Whitney wasn't ready. But what did Cal do? He benched him. That's the point. Some of his minutes eventually did go to Juzang. Johnny wasn't ready on day one. I'm sure you remember. Most of those minutes went immediately to Quickley.

Look, here's the deal. Many of you are angry at Cal. I'm not happy with him, either, right now. I've very disappointed UK didn't make the Dance. There is no excuse for that. But this attack on Cal for not playing Allen just for spite or just because he only plays the 5-star guys, is just not a valid argument. It makes zero sense to not play a guy who you truly believe could actually help the team win. Just to spite the fans? Just to spite Allen? Why is Allen returning if he thinks Cal is benching him out of spite?

No, it is perfectly reasonable to believe that, if Juzang performed at UK this season the way that he has at UCLA, Cal would have played him and he eventually would have gained the starting job. We have precedent to know this is true.

By the way, it's not just with Whitney and Quickley. It was also with Herro when Quickley and Quade Green were higher rated. It was with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander when Quade Green was higher rated. In each case, the lower rated player didn't begin the year starting (or wasn't expected to start) but eventually won the job. These are just examples from the last 3 years.

As I say, there is no reason to believe that Juzang wouldn't have started this season at UK.

It happened over and over again. SKJ higher rated than Willis. Couldn't see the floor. It was a struggle to get Wenyen steady tick at first.

The best kids eventually play. Cal isn't sitting there with a vendetta against fans to lose more games.

This is the same coach that sat Hamidou Diallo cuz he wasn't hitting shots.

 

[yes_takeaside]

Not even in his dreams, which is why he left

 

[Fast3ddy]

No

 

[HalHR2500]

Cal has a lot of unfortunate typecast non-negotiables that are wrong thinking and he is super Stubborn he wants to prove his way works

He started and coddled the so called elite 5 stars and ignored their flaws thinking by merely playing them would lead to the next great recruiting class

 

[drainthatub]

 

[aikenite4uk]

A complete stiff? A complete stiff who was receiving rave reviews by talent evaluators before struggling at UK?

You do not know what was earned or what wasn't. Unless you are at practice. If so, let me know.

It's Cal's team. Not your team. If Cal feels the squad projects better with Whitney starting and Quick coming off the bench to spell either one of our guards than it's his decision to make. And he is playing the long game to win a title.

I'm gad you have complete confidence in high school "talent evaluators"....I'd rather have a coach that could separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[JoeBeeHall]

He would have played a bunch this season.

 

[NoDef]

Kid wont shoot...I tell him to shoot.... (doesn't address that it is hard to get a flow and a good look in the 1-2 minutes playing time at a time...thats like 2-3 trips up the floor) <<<<<<<<that drives me crazy

Bingo. Cal played him and Baker both as "must immediately make 3" guys. How much more pressure is that on them compared to " I don't want to take his heart" kids like Boston? Shooters can't be afraid to shoot and if you take them out as soon as they miss or don't shoot, then they will/can only play extremely tight.

 

[Disappointed Cat]

This!!

I think you already know the answer to that question.

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

Zero chance. Kahlil Whitney couldn't make layups and played ahead of Juzang to start the season. Not because he earned it, because he had a bigger name.

 

[gojvc]

The argument was that Juzang would have had ZERO chance of starting for UK this year. Not a snowball's chance in hades. That is an extreme take and not reasonable at all.

You can call it extreme but I think Johnny Juzang believed it.