for Coach Pope like it has at times been for other UK coaches in the past? Because of our focus on 3pt shooting and guard play?
Will landing a great PF be problematic
- Thread starter Girthang
- Start date
A great PF isn't a necessity for success in 2025
I would argue that we need a hybrid forward more so than we need a traditional 4 man. They have to be able to dribble, pass and shoot to be effective in Pope’s system IMHO.
EDIT: I’ll throw in that they must be able to rebound as well.
EDIT: I’ll throw in that they must be able to rebound as well.
I agree. Shooting is far more important in this system. I wanted Wilson, but he isn't an elite shooter.
Let's see what is out there in the portal when the dust settles.
We need 2 more frontcourt guy that can provide physically
I would be surprised if he struggles to land great, versatile PFs. In my mind, the difference between good vs great PFs in college (and the NBA) is better versatility...it is difficult for PFs who have little guard skills (perimeter shooting, ballhandling, etc) to ever be more than "good", while the great ones can be physical like a lot of "good" PFs but can also provide the perimeter game.
As has been mentioned by others before, Pope's offensive style of play should highlight those guard skills for really great PF...so, whether it be HS seniors or portal guys, I would think they would LOVE to play in a system that highlights and grows those skills.
I definitely don't think Pope designs his system with a true PF in mind. We wants 5 guys that can shoot it, 5 guys that can handle the ball. So I wouldn't be looking for Pope to recruit traditional PFs, it'll be more like small-ball 5's or stretch-4s
You don't have to have an elite PF. But you do need a good one. You can't win many games going essentially 4 vs 5.
So, then the question is, what traits (& in what order) are most important for a PF/4 playing for Pope (3pt shooting, perimeter defense, interior defense, post offense, other)?
A few days ago I looked at all of the top scorers (anyone >12ppg) who are not yet seniors and are not guards (& listed them in another thread). Honestly, the pickings are pretty slim at that position in the potential portal for next year. UNLESS the NCAA follows through on the rumor of granting everyone 5 seasons in 5 years.
Same. Give me a Euro PF over a low skilled physical freak PF. A combo of both is ideal but if it’s one or the other then I’ll take the European style PF.
Now, you do need physicality so my 5 man (and his backup) needs to be physically imposing. I’d also look for well built, tall, gritty guards. You can find physical, athletic, guards that can shoot to fit the system. But if I’m going to have a more finesse guy in this system then I’d rather it be the 4 man that’s playing in a 4 out
We are still less than a full calendar year into the Pope era. I expect that more and more recruits are going to want to play for Pope if they know they are dynamic offensive players at the front court positions. I think there will come a time when we have outstanding talent at the four and the five because of what Pope’s offense promises them. In short, no way.
The way Coach Pope has used Carr this season, I see NO problem getting a competent PF in the portal. But, he will have to be able to post up AND shoot the 3. But I'm hoping with more time to evaluate this type of player it will allow the staff to get a better defender with those other attributes as well.
I will defer to those who know more about the players that fit that mold, but they are out there and this staff has been GREAT at identifying kids that fit how they want to play.
Any names that are currently playing that we have have a shot at????
I will defer to those who know more about the players that fit that mold, but they are out there and this staff has been GREAT at identifying kids that fit how they want to play.
Any names that are currently playing that we have have a shot at????
I wish we could find a Nate Sestina type guy, he would be the perfect fit for this offense.
A versitile, quick, good handle, good passer, rebounder, defensive PF is my preference, don't want much do I. Notice I left off good shooter, with the skills I mentioned a average shooter will be great in Pope's system. Someone in the mold of Randle or Mashburn would be ideal in his system, although some may think we need more height.
I would think there is enough flexibility in the system that it could thrive if you have a 5 man who is a offensive beast in the post with a 4 man (who is a good perimeter shooter) at the top of the key initiating the offense. I say that b/c you would still have the low post threat when you need it, but you would still have the ability to invert the offense if/when you bring the 5 to the top of the key.
I actually think just a traditional PF will be fine. I absolutely love Almonor’s range but the truth is, most of the critical output we’ve gotten from the 4 spot this year has come in the form of Carr using his skinny strong slyness to punch the ball through the basket when nothing else was working for us. Forcing the other team to double him and then that lets us start to work inside out until we get back to our perimeter action again. Carr has a serviceable outside shot. It’s not great and he doesn’t rely on it, neither do we.
Given those are our real needs how hard can it be to fill them when we have the whole portal? For example, given what was available last year we could have gotten Great Osobor for way less money than Wilson supposedly wanted and gotten way, way more value and production out of him.
Now it’s nice to think about bringing in a freshman who can grow with our team and eventually be so good the league would steal him before he’s Ososbor’s age. But we know perfectly well that the reality with kids that talented is they are either busts or they’re drafted away from us on potential. The “potential” bleed is even steeper with big men. Unless you have a true Demarcus Cousins man child, or at least a Randall or a Towns or an Adebayo, then for the real needs that this team actually has for the 4 position we’re better off with a more experienced and more physically mature guy from the portal. If we find someone on Moreno’s level who plays the 4 then he can be that in-house developing piece. Awesome some day. But he wouldn’t be much of a load-bearing wall next season and I really doubt Wilson would have been. Would have been a wicked feather in Pope’s cap as a recruiter and imo that would have been about it.
Remember that our perimeter-based style will forever limit how much other teams can pack in their defense. In turn that forever limits how many skills and attributes a player needs to be an effective “power” forward in our system.
Pope will work it out.
Also remember that Cal had several years when he whiffed on a recruit and that turned out to be serious addition by subtraction, because someone much better turned up late who wasn’t even on people’s radar when we lost the first kid. That scenario is still on the table. And it’s surely helped by the portal.
Given those are our real needs how hard can it be to fill them when we have the whole portal? For example, given what was available last year we could have gotten Great Osobor for way less money than Wilson supposedly wanted and gotten way, way more value and production out of him.
Now it’s nice to think about bringing in a freshman who can grow with our team and eventually be so good the league would steal him before he’s Ososbor’s age. But we know perfectly well that the reality with kids that talented is they are either busts or they’re drafted away from us on potential. The “potential” bleed is even steeper with big men. Unless you have a true Demarcus Cousins man child, or at least a Randall or a Towns or an Adebayo, then for the real needs that this team actually has for the 4 position we’re better off with a more experienced and more physically mature guy from the portal. If we find someone on Moreno’s level who plays the 4 then he can be that in-house developing piece. Awesome some day. But he wouldn’t be much of a load-bearing wall next season and I really doubt Wilson would have been. Would have been a wicked feather in Pope’s cap as a recruiter and imo that would have been about it.
Remember that our perimeter-based style will forever limit how much other teams can pack in their defense. In turn that forever limits how many skills and attributes a player needs to be an effective “power” forward in our system.
Pope will work it out.
Also remember that Cal had several years when he whiffed on a recruit and that turned out to be serious addition by subtraction, because someone much better turned up late who wasn’t even on people’s radar when we lost the first kid. That scenario is still on the table. And it’s surely helped by the portal.
I see no reason Pope should have trouble recruiting bigs.
I think most 4 men WANT to play on the perimeter. NBA bigs are shooting 3's. College 4's (and even 5's) want to show they can shoot 3's. Pope is going to allow and even encourage it.
We're still seeing Williams and Carr do a lot of work/scoring on the block.
Calipari ONLY wanted to play these guys with their backs to the basket. I think we struggled to get some guys because of that. I would think Pope's style makes it far more likely we find these guys.
I think most 4 men WANT to play on the perimeter. NBA bigs are shooting 3's. College 4's (and even 5's) want to show they can shoot 3's. Pope is going to allow and even encourage it.
We're still seeing Williams and Carr do a lot of work/scoring on the block.
Calipari ONLY wanted to play these guys with their backs to the basket. I think we struggled to get some guys because of that. I would think Pope's style makes it far more likely we find these guys.
Oh, that would be optimal. But with the way Coach Pope uses his 5 man as a distributor, it is imperative that the 4 be able to post up also. Unless Garrison improves his Post skills tremendously by next season, we are going to need another 4 that can score in the paint.
He was not a dominant type that is needed. Someone that could take over a game when it is tight
UK needs someone that can be counted on to get a rebound or score in crunch time
Not a 4, but if Pat Ngongba from Duke wants to transfer, I want him.
He will still not have enough playing time next year as Duke adds another two frontcourt players. So if he is willing to transfer, I would like to take him.
He has some low post skills, is a good rebounder. He also have some passing ability in high school but he now does not get much time in Duke
He will still not have enough playing time next year as Duke adds another two frontcourt players. So if he is willing to transfer, I would like to take him.
He has some low post skills, is a good rebounder. He also have some passing ability in high school but he now does not get much time in Duke
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fpni. Do we really need a 4? I don't think so. I would rather have a combo wing or a Euro dude who can stretch the floor. That way we can go true 4 out 1 in. In a crunch Garrison could play the four if we needed to go big.
I would think he'd be their starting center next year with Boozer at the 4.
Their other 3 recruits are perimeter players.
To me it’s more important they find a physical front court piece to pair with a great shooting PF, or find a great shooting big and physical foward
These are some potential PFs that may be available in the portal (although guys like Toppin & Murray-Boyles may choose to stay in the draft):
Jamichael Stillwell
Milwaukee Panthers
Junior
6' 8", 225 lbs
13.7pts/11.2rebs/1.0ast/48.3 FG%/ 56 FT%/36% 3pt.
Alvaro Folgueiras
Robert Morris Colonials
Sophomore
6' 9", 215 lbs
13pts/9.8rebs/2.9ast/51.4 FG%/ 78.5 FT%/33.9% 3pt.
Rasheer Fleming
Saint Joseph's Hawks
Junior
6' 9", 240 lbs
15.9pts/9.3rebs/1.4ast/56.1 FG%/ 67.2 FT%/41.7% 3pt.
Paulius Murauskas
Saint Mary's Gaels
Sophomore
6' 8", 235 lbs
12.8pts/8.5rebs/1.9ast/46.0 FG%/ 75.4 FT%/32.2% 3pt.
JT Toppin
Texas Tech Red Raiders
Sophomore
6' 9", 225 lbs
16.9pts/9.1rebs/0.9ast/55.5 FG%/ 68.4 FT%/31.3% 3pt.
Collin Murray-Boyles
South Carolina Gamecocks
Sophomore
6' 7", 245 lbs
15.3pts/8.9rebs/2.3ast/60.1 FG%/ 67.3 FT%/31.3% 3pt.
CMB is #19 on ESPN mock.
Toppin and Fleming both listed as first rounders on other mocks.
Even best case scenario you're waiting till the withdrawal deadline with these three.
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But you can’t sacrifice rebounding by having 5 finesse players on the floor. You’ve seen how we’ve been manhandled on the boards at times, particularly giving up second chance points.
Never said anything about having 5 "finesse" players. Just because a stretch-5 can shoot, doesn't mean he's soft. Your 3 can be a dawg, your new-age 4 doesn't have to be soft, can be like a Terrance Jones type player
Yeah, I don't know why all of them wouldn't at least explore the draft; and I suppose we might not know whether or not they stay in the draft for a while. I also don't know which site is the best for predicting, but NBA Draft Room has both Toppin and Murray-Boyles as 2nd rounders. Would they still go if 2nd rounders now with NIL? I don't know.
Fleming is the dream get, he is really good, but I think he goes to the draft
Agree about Garrison's post up game. I was speaking more in general saying I think you could get by having a more perimeter oriented 4 man IF you have a 5 with a great post game.
My hope is that Garrison continues to grow with his post up game, and I don't know why he can't... for a 5, he handles the ball decently, he has a good form on his shot, but his touch from 6-8 feet in is lacking. This offseason, that dude needs to shoot a million 3pt shots, FTs, and hook shots/short jumpers from 3-6 feet in. He doesn't have to be automatic at any of those, but if he can even moderately improve all of them, he could be a real weapon.
It amazes me that guys can be decent 3pt shooters but terrible from the FT line...has never made sense other than just the mental side of it
To answer the op, simply put no. Now what a particular 5 star brings won’t always fit what Pope wants that to look like. Wilson just happened to pass that test. Pope is going to take the players that fits his system and we should have no problem recruiting any position. His style is way more conducive to the nba and he’s a hell of a guy to play for and it’s UK, so no he will have no issues landing studs at all positions. We all just have to be patient and let him cook. When you recruit in the big leagues you are going to get some “no’s” but I’ll wager he gets way more yes’s once he truly has this thing rolling.
Agree. I think (even though it doesn't appear we have much of a shot with him), Ament is the better "fit" than Wilson, and I also think he has a better chance of being a day 1 contributor in college. There will be some options in the portal, just have to identify them early and land them before all of the shenanigans begin for the player. Solid PG, Hybrid 4, and a dirty work, rebounding player is most needed. I think Garrison takes a huge step next year and starts living up to his 5 star ranking.
Should be easier than ever. All these guys want to play like guards and we have the perfect system for it. Just comes down to money.
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