Why do we need to focus on HS players anymore
- Thread starter chasingwildcat
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I saw this coming, and warned about it. I felt like Lewis was under rated. I've been saying they will not come to play 15 min a game. But for some reason so many on here have the idea that top players will be satisfied with 15-20 minutes. But they aren't, you want to know why? Cause they want to develop and sign a NBA contract.
As a coach you have to pull from H&S and portal to have success. I don't think lowe scared him off as much as they plan on signing another shooter . If he could've played 10-15 min backup to point, and 10-15 min backup to SG he probably stays.
Ya might wanna be careful or JJ will be gone!
So why we just deal with these five stars (even high 4 stars) anymore
Just recruit some transfers instead...
All could be 1-2 year deal but transfers are more proven
Still risky you can't bank on getting the transfers you need every year. Having some recruits from HS as a base is helpful in continuation.
If I am Pope, I just learn Todd Golden, just recruit some (not high ranking) guys who are athletic or have potential and more importantly are willing to come to the program (not just pro prospect) to develop his games (even if he may be on the bench in year1 and/or year 2)
There is only so much NIL money. Plus, you hope to have a top Freshman or two that can develop through the season.
But, I do pretty much agree with the premise that top transfer players are your better bet if the right fit. Guys like Anthony Davis, or Flagg, or similar are a rarity plus as Freshman they may still have some folding under pressure. Not to be a negative fan but Davis was pretty bad on offense in the championship game unable to hit shots he otherwise had no problem with. Flagg fumbled at the end of our game and against Houston. So, there is a good point to this thread.
But, I do pretty much agree with the premise that top transfer players are your better bet if the right fit. Guys like Anthony Davis, or Flagg, or similar are a rarity plus as Freshman they may still have some folding under pressure. Not to be a negative fan but Davis was pretty bad on offense in the championship game unable to hit shots he otherwise had no problem with. Flagg fumbled at the end of our game and against Houston. So, there is a good point to this thread.
You don’t need HS players to win in this day and age. UF did it via portal. Houston had had a heck of a 5+ year run based entirely on portal and development of portal with multi years left and the occasional low ranked freshman that doesn’t mind sitting a year or 2.
The only freshmen truly worth going after until they figure out a CBA/salary cap/multi year contracts are the Zion, Cooper Flagg, JQ, AD, College/NBA ready bodies projected lotto pick types.
Lewis will be a good college player but his real value was year 2. If he isn’t willing to stick around to year 2-3 then you can spend that money on a more sure thing with college experience and weight training
Same here . I wouldnt even bother with them .
We still have two top high school recruits committed though.
The kid could have just had a change of heart who knows. It happens all the time in football.
The kid could have just had a change of heart who knows. It happens all the time in football.
If Lewis was so awesome, why do you think he was going to be relegated to 15 minutes per game?
You're making the same assumption Lewis made. You don't believe in his ability to compete any more than he believes in his own ability to compete for minutes.
It is hardly to get top top talent in HS now, these talent and difference maker (Flagg, Zion) usually goes to Duke now.
In the history of recruiting, when KY and Duke are the final two … recruits RARELY end up at KY. It is what it is …
That's a Nike thing. Cal lost his hook up, World Wide Wes, and it got tougher.
??
Are you talking about just UK or CBB in general.
There's been a lot more than 5-6 over the last 30 years just at UK.
What's your criteria for a difference maker?
You still have to pursue top HS talent and sign them in Nov then what happens in the portal happens and you deal with it.
Oweh and JQ need to be replaced with the best HS players that we can sign.
The guy has to be coping. Plenty of freshman play meaningful roles for good teams all over the country every year.
Coaches have to reconstruct a roster year to year now.
Not a big priority to sign HS Seniors anymore but it's still important to recruit them.
As said above you recruit them again as a sophomore.
You want men on your roster nowadays. Guys that have experience and have built there bodies up. Guys that have proven to be able to handle the grind.
That's where I would spend my money.
Not a big priority to sign HS Seniors anymore but it's still important to recruit them.
As said above you recruit them again as a sophomore.
You want men on your roster nowadays. Guys that have experience and have built there bodies up. Guys that have proven to be able to handle the grind.
That's where I would spend my money.
The portal is incredibly fluid. Let’s say other programs have whiffed on their PG targets. That program liked Lewis his NIL value just went up. The negative recruiting starts. UK has spent the majority of their funds decides not to up the amount. Kid leaves. UK has more to spend on older guys they want but guess what the agents know that too. Now the targets value goes up for everyone involved on the player.
To me the later you get in this process the more you spend while incurring more risk. Guys that a working the market aren’t team guys so when things get bumpy it can turn bad.
To me the later you get in this process the more you spend while incurring more risk. Guys that a working the market aren’t team guys so when things get bumpy it can turn bad.
?? was my thought as well.
AD
Wall
Greg Oden
Jabari Parker
Derrick Rose
Jared Sullinger
Zion Williamson
Michael Beasley
Kevin Love
Jahlil Okafor
Trae Young
Kevin Durant
Just to name a few dominant Freshmen in the last 30 years ...
Thats a good point if you look at that list there is some crazy talent there, but what only 1 championship that I see unless I missed one.
I hate to lose the kid and would have loved for him to stay, but my guess is either he shopped around for a bigger bag of money which is kind of a bad look after already committing to us or he simply thought he got recruited over and was not good enough to get the mintues he was expecting. To be honest if either one of those was the case we probably dodged a bullet. If its all about money or he lacks the confidence to think he is the best PG then this is probably not the place for him and wish the kid the best and move on. Ky is not the place for everyone. We want kids who want to be here and also damn well think they are the best player on the floor and if not they are willing to work to make it so. This might actually work out in our favor with some of these other kids we are looking at in the portal.
Great post we get too hung up on stars around here thanks to Cal. Its not about having the best players its about having the right players and the system that fits them.
When the transfer portal gets cleaned up I believe it's going to be tougher to win the way Florida just did. The open transfer portal has worked about as well as the one & dones have. Just let high school guys go straight to the NBA if they can. Set a minimum amount of two years to any player that decides to go to college. Limit the transfer portal limit and set two open periods.
Enforce tighter contracts on coaches as well, that way you won't have the complaint of tampering that West Virginia recently lobbied at Indiana citing their coach and his son had been in talks to join the Hoosiers as far back as early December.
Will any of these things happen? I doubt it, unless there are lawsuits and the television networks want more parity in the NCAA tournament. The numbers don't really support the claim of people wanting to watch mid major upstarts over big brands. Go back and look at the Final Four two years ago compared to this year.
Enforce tighter contracts on coaches as well, that way you won't have the complaint of tampering that West Virginia recently lobbied at Indiana citing their coach and his son had been in talks to join the Hoosiers as far back as early December.
Will any of these things happen? I doubt it, unless there are lawsuits and the television networks want more parity in the NCAA tournament. The numbers don't really support the claim of people wanting to watch mid major upstarts over big brands. Go back and look at the Final Four two years ago compared to this year.
I think players should be allowed to transfer freely the first time, but the second transfer should come with a mandatory sit-out year, unless there are special circumstances. Transferring to four different schools in four years is just ridiculous.
We only need to recruit high school recruits in three categories:
- The kind of player who can be a college star from day one.
- The ones who may not highly ranked but have elite physical tools and can quickly adapt to the physicality of SEC basketball in day one.
- The ones who show real upside in other areas. (Like Condon, Haugh...)
For the second and third types, they need to be willing to develop over time, not expect to be starters in year one (and/or even year two). Florida is filled with type 2 or 3 HS recruits.
The first type is the toughest to get, because most of those guys are probably going to end up at places like Duke.
Do not need to care about other top 50 HS guys anymore, almost all these guys only care about NBA and are delusional they are nba ready before even enrolling campus.
Jasper, Moreno are KY native, they may be exception, but do not want to deal other top 50 HS guys.
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It's still about having the best players, it's just that freshmen aren't the best players - they're the best prospects.
There's a lot of truth to this.
While WWW was still spoon feeding Cal recruits, we beat Duke for Wall, Noel, Poythress, and Randle.
As soon as Wes exited the "ambassador" role, we lost to Duke for about 8 out of the next 10 head-to-head recruitments.
You just witnessed what you say is the way to go.
Sweet 16 and blown out.
And frankly, I think Coach Pope did a super job!
Pope had never coached in the SEC before, so he's still adjusting.
Last year, he was still building the team based on the WCC/BIG12 model, which is why the team struggled to adapt to SEC competition.
But relying on transfers is more reliable than relying on HS recruits. As long as the staff focuses more on physical tools and strength in the transfer market, the team will find success.
We need a balance of skill and physicality from portal players, but last season we only had skill. The new roster is already noticeably more balanced.
Id say keep recruiting them, tell them that the landscape has changed in terms of roster building, blah blah. Dont outright lie to them, but also, play the game ... and then go grab whatever transfers we need after that given season is over. Even if it's better transfers.
Then let the recruits do with it what they will. Sounds like Lewis was going to be a headache anyways, and no promise that he was going to play a 2nd year here, so why should we hold up our roster, for an unproven 4-star no less?
I dont want to OVER recruit players (like grabbing the 6th player when you have the 7th), and i dont love doing that with players we may have had for 2 or 3 years.. but its a business and needs to be treated as such going forward. Go get the best players. If that upsets a recruit who we owe nothing to, then so be it. We owe Lewis nothing.
Then let the recruits do with it what they will. Sounds like Lewis was going to be a headache anyways, and no promise that he was going to play a 2nd year here, so why should we hold up our roster, for an unproven 4-star no less?
I dont want to OVER recruit players (like grabbing the 6th player when you have the 7th), and i dont love doing that with players we may have had for 2 or 3 years.. but its a business and needs to be treated as such going forward. Go get the best players. If that upsets a recruit who we owe nothing to, then so be it. We owe Lewis nothing.
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That's the real key here. Lewis wasn't a top 5 player. If he was, ok, then you take him above anyone else. But aside from the Cooper flagg types, you almost always take a proven transfer who we know can play, and it's a guy who is coming into a established roster. Laland knew who was on this team when he chose to come hwre, didn't seem to bother him. Recruits choose to come to a school a year prior (or more) thinking their position is secured. They might not even have wanted to come to a school like UK, but they saw an opening that they maybe didn't at say UNC.
Give me a 16ppg sophomore or junior over someone completely unproven like Lewis, who we have no idea what he will give us in his first (and likely only) year.
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