Why “Jornalism” Is Dying

[fuzz77]

Yeah I guess since you haven't taken the time to read from a fairly decent list of books that are far more than articles in the newspaper it is normal to dismiss it as not being verified. Without reading these books with footnotes from authors with award winning sterling careers and resumes It very easy to be a skeptic. Robert Parry recently died but before this book I listed he had worked for the AP, PBS, Time and Frontline. He was regarded as a trusted author and also taught at New York University's graduate School of Journalism. He was far more than "a government Conspiracy" writer, and you are free to form an opinion without reading anything at all. The "position" I'm in is I've read all three books----as well as others. My personal feeling is you have to spend some time seeking the truth before you can trust the truth. Not everything written is propaganda and one valuable lesson one must learn on through their own research is how our government changed its way of approaching the free press after Vietnam. Today again that is being changed for the worse.

Levi, again I didn't pass judgment upon the legitimacy of any of the claims I simply put forth my reasoning as why they don't make it into every newspaper and news broadcast. The writers may believe 1000% every word written but until you can produce hard evidence and connect every dot there are going to be questions and doubt.
It's no different than the Kennedy assassination and the conspiracies that have grown out of that event. Many books and several movies have been made supporting those ideas.

I think that attempts to manipulate the media by forces in power and in search of power are as old as the media itself. Vietnam was essentially the first war that was covered "live" (it was primarily filmed and replayed the same/next day) and on television so there were adaptations to fit that media outlet. WWII coverage was greatly censored and controlled as was that of other wars and events. Today we have the least censoring ever because of our ability to record, document and communicate...but that leads to other problems because ANYONE can say anything and spread it to thousands, millions of people and by sheer numbers alone there will be some critical mass of people who will believe it/not believe it.

 

[The-Hack]

but that leads to other problems because ANYONE can say anything and spread it to thousands, millions of people and by sheer numbers alone there will be some critical mass of people who will believe it/not believe it.

Once, when visiting Europe, Samuel Clemens [Mark Twain] was met with a rumor, from back in the US that he was dead. He characteristically responded that rumors of his death "were greatly exaggerated."

He also observed that "a lie can circle the globe before the truth laces up its shoes."

And that observation predated the internet by more than 100 years!

 

[Caveman Catfan]

College football is causing “jornalism” to die? Was that the point?

 

[fuzz77]

Once, when visiting Europe, Samuel Clemens [Mark Twain] was met with a rumor, from back in the US that he was dead. He characteristically responded that rumors of his death "were greatly exaggerated."

He also observed that "a lie can circle the globe before the truth laces up its shoes."

And that observation predated the internet by more than 100 years!

The difference of course being the rate at which said lie can circle the globe and the access to the tools and masses of people that allow it to happen.

In other words... what was true then is true x millions today.

 

[catben]

In today's society, journalism is slanted with the "opinion" of the owners and editors of the entity that produces it.

Getting the "true story" is extremely difficult.There are more liberal slanted news outlets than conservative, but rarely ANY that are TOTALLY unbiased. That's the problem with todays so called "news".

 

[Levibooty]

The amount of bias in the news is entirely dependent on which side your perspective is coming from. It is as if the news is "market" driven. Imagine that in the "business" of news. The fact is journalism plays second fiddle to viewership and profits. It is very hard to deny infotainment has been given an ever increasing broader spectrum of what people refer to as news today. One can only imagine the confusion and emotional outbursts if Fox News started to sing the praises of Bernie Sanders or god forbid Hillary Clinton. It would be a catastrophic upheaval for those regular viewers that depend on the ideological purity Fox is known for. That upheaval would be proof of that puritanical test from the viewers. Same could be said if Rachel Maddow stated her full support of Mike Pence. The people of this country for the most part are unaware of how news is packaged to create their bias and then support and reaffirm that bias regardless of political bent. For the most part very few Americans are opened minded, rather they are mostly "trained" to follow their training. I believe that is due to the populace ever decreasing ability for critical thinking. We are spoon fed our opinions and don't realize it. I think that accounts for how many times you read a news outlet falls on the left or on the right. It obviously can't be both ot that would make center. It falls where it does the most good for the ideology of the person placing it.

 

[fuzz77]

In today's society, journalism is slanted with the "opinion" of the owners and editors of the entity that produces it.

Getting the "true story" is extremely difficult.There are more liberal slanted news outlets than conservative, but rarely ANY that are TOTALLY unbiased. That's the problem with todays so called "news".

Journalism has always been slanted with the opinion of the owners and editors that produce it. That is true today, was true yesterday, was true 100, 500, 1000 years ago and will be true tomorrow.

There is no such thing as anything being unbiased...especially the reporting of news and events by human beings. Please tell me how you would know the difference? To judge bias you have to already know what happened. If your judgment is based other news reports then how are you determining that those reports were more factual than others? How are YOU eliminating confirmation bias from your opinion? You aren't and cannot.

If you were given nothing but bullet pointed facts, the omission of any single data point would introduce bias. The selection of adjectives used introduces bias...

 

[catben]

ALL of the mainstream media outlets(NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, NPR) have a liberal slant. Fox has a conservative slant.

EVERYONE with half of a brain KNOWS this.

The problem lies when those same news outlets(especially CNN) try their best to convince the general public that they aren't "slanted", or with some, OVERWHELMINGLY "biased".

So, it is no longer "news", but OPINION. I can see how this works from BOTH sides, meaning my "bias" doesn't keep me from seeing how this whole "news" business works.

Journalism has always been slanted with the opinion of the owners and editors that produce it. That is true today, was true yesterday, was true 100, 500, 1000 years ago and will be true tomorrow.

There is no such thing as anything being unbiased...especially the reporting of news and events by human beings. Please tell me how you would know the difference? To judge bias you have to already know what happened. If your judgment is based other news reports then how are you determining that those reports were more factual than others? How are YOU eliminating confirmation bias from your opinion? You aren't and cannot.

If you were given nothing but bullet pointed facts, the omission of any single data point would introduce bias. The selection of adjectives used introduces bias...

 

[catben]

I'll just add that hyperbole seems to rule ALL news stories. The more dire or sunshine pumping the presentation, the better.

A practical person has to read or watch several sources to sort out the story on their own.

 

[Levibooty]

And yet books are frown on as too time consuming. BTW catben I disagree that if it is not Foxnews its liberal. It seems to me people think something is either conservative or its liberal, I don't buy that, to me that is like saying either agree with me or you're wrong.

 

[Blue Decade]

And yet books are frown on as too time consuming. BTW catben I disagree that if it is not Foxnews its liberal. It seems to me people think something is either conservative or its liberal, I don't buy that, to me that is like saying either agree with me or you're wrong.

You are describing the definition of the word “doctrinaire”, which means an inflexible attachment to an idiosyncratic point of view, not subject to change with the benefit of practical observation. I guarantee you, 90% of the public doesn’t know the true definitions of the words “conservative” and “liberal”. To the man and woman, everyone I got to know in our armed forces is conservative in the true sense of that word. Trump campaigned as a “conservative”, but some of his policy positions are liberal and some are conservative in the literal sense. Fox News employs flaming liberals Juan Williams, Shepard Smith, Kristen Powers, Dennis Kucinich, Mara Liasson, Joe Trippi, Julie Roginsky, Jehmu Greene, Leslie Marshall. Even Chris Wallace is a Dem. They also employ independents and conservatives. But the NY Times wants you to believe Fox News is a “conservative mouthpiece”, because Fox News is right down the street from the NY Times and also a direct competitor for market share and advertising money. Politicians have 3 goals, raise more money, get more control, and get re-elected. They will say anything. The contemporary “conservative” versus “liberal” cage match is contrived to get incumbent politicians re-elected.

 

[Rembrandt90]

I would just like for more people to understand the difference between a journalist and a blogger.

 

[mktmaker]

ALL of the mainstream media outlets(NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, NPR) have a liberal slant. Fox has a conservative slant.

EVERYONE with half of a brain KNOWS this.

The problem lies when those same news outlets(especially CNN) try their best to convince the general public that they aren't "slanted", or with some, OVERWHELMINGLY "biased".

So, it is no longer "news", but OPINION. I can see how this works from BOTH sides, meaning my "bias" doesn't keep me from seeing how this whole "news" business works.

Just because you use all caps doesn't make what you say accurate.

 

[Levibooty]

You are describing the definition of the word “doctrinaire”, which means an inflexible attachment to an idiosyncratic point of view, not subject to change with the benefit of practical observation. I guarantee you, 90% of the public doesn’t know the true definitions of the words “conservative” and “liberal”. To the man and woman, everyone I got to know in our armed forces is conservative in the true sense of that word. Trump campaigned as a “conservative”, but some of his policy positions are liberal and some are conservative in the literal sense. Fox News employs flaming liberals Juan Williams, Shepard Smith, Kristen Powers, Dennis Kucinich, Mara Liasson, Joe Trippi, Julie Roginsky, Jehmu Greene, Leslie Marshall. Even Chris Wallace is a Dem. They also employ independents and conservatives. But the NY Times wants you to believe Fox News is a “conservative mouthpiece”, because Fox News is right down the street from the NY Times and also a direct competitor for market share and advertising money. Politicians have 3 goals, raise more money, get more control, and get re-elected. They will say anything. The contemporary “conservative” versus “liberal” cage match is contrived to get incumbent politicians re-elected.

Fox News pay liberal commentators to come on the show as punching bags. To act as if it is anything but far right conservative flies in the face a reality Sean Hannity, Bill O'reilly, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingram, Jeanine Pirro, Neil Cavuto, etc. etc. etc These people run the show. Now I can say that American conservatives do push a NEOLIBERAL foreign policy a lot of times but that is a different subject. Saying Fox News is anything but conservative is pushing a straight out falsehood. BTW there are a lot of armed forces who are Democrat and a lot of them are buried in Arlington, you disgrace their service and sacrifice by trying to politicize them.

 

[catben]

Just because you use all caps doesn't make what you say accurate.

Enlighten me on where I went wrong.

Most of today’s so called mainstream “Journalists”’have a liberal viewpoint. They are being taught by liberal professors and work in newsrooms that are run and owned by liberal thinking people.

Hence, the over abundance of that side of the aisle.

However, Fox and a few other websites have given those with a conservative viewpoint an alternative outlet.

ALL( I know more CAPS) news seems to reflect
A political angle in today’s society.

 

[Chuckinden]

I learned long ago that I don't like politics so I don't watch political programs. I just want to see the news of the day at 6:30 of what's happening in the world. I watch NBC Nightly News because it happens to come on after Lex18 local news. Also, I like Lester Holt.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Also, I like Lester Holt.

What?!? Didn’t you know Lester Holt has biases?

 

[ukalum1988]

Fox News pay liberal commentators to come on the show as punching bags. To act as if it is anything but far right conservative flies in the face a reality Sean Hannity, Bill O'reilly, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingram, Jeanine Pirro, Neil Cavuto, etc. etc. etc These people run the show. Now I can say that American conservatives do push a NEOLIBERAL foreign policy a lot of times but that is a different subject. Saying Fox News is anything but conservative is pushing a straight out falsehood. BTW there are a lot of armed forces who are Democrat and a lot of them are buried in Arlington, you disgrace their service and sacrifice by trying to politicize them.

Fox News has more liberals on their network than CNN / MSNBC has combined conservatives on theirs. Joe Scarborough is about the only one who’s remotely conservative on either of those two networks I can think of.

Basically all three of these networks are selling their respective viewers a product they’ve already bought.

I didn’t Blue Decade mention anything about political affiliations of our veterans so I don’t know why you felt compelled to bring it up.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Fox News has more liberals on their network than CNN / MSNBC has combined conservatives on theirs. Joe Scarborough is about the only one who’s remotely conservative on either of those two networks I can think of.

Basically all three of these networks are selling their respective viewers a product they’ve already bought.

I didn’t Blue Decade mention anything about political affiliations of our veterans so I don’t know why you felt compelled to bring it up.

Good points.

 

[nssdigitalchumps]

News has been on the downward trend since Ted Turner introduced 24 hours news. As for Nick not being a journalist, his degree says otherwise.

 

[Levibooty]

Fox News has more liberals on their network than CNN / MSNBC has combined conservatives on theirs. Joe Scarborough is about the only one who’s remotely conservative on either of those two networks I can think of.

Basically all three of these networks are selling their respective viewers a product they’ve already bought.

I didn’t Blue Decade mention anything about political affiliations of our veterans so I don’t know why you felt compelled to bring it up.

You won't see what you selectively ignore: "To the man and woman, everyone I got to know in our armed forces is conservative in the true sense of that word."

 

[fuzz77]

ALL of the mainstream media outlets(NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, NPR) have a liberal slant. Fox has a conservative slant.

EVERYONE with half of a brain KNOWS this.

The problem lies when those same news outlets(especially CNN) try their best to convince the general public that they aren't "slanted", or with some, OVERWHELMINGLY "biased".

So, it is no longer "news", but OPINION. I can see how this works from BOTH sides, meaning my "bias" doesn't keep me from seeing how this whole "news" business works.

I'm afraid your bias does keep you from seeing a lot.

Curious as to how you define "mainstream media" and why people who like to use that moniker continuously link in CNN...and sometimes MSNBC when those two networks combined have less viewership than Fox? Yet they are always held up by those talking about the "mainstream media" as the examples of the MSM.

I'm also not sure how you compare networks that are 24/7 news/opinion vs those that on average carry an hour or less of news per day and otherwise broadcast for entertainment?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

You won't see what you selectively ignore

I guess that’s true for everyone.

 

[CB3UK]

Curious as to how you define "mainstream media" and why people who like to use that moniker continuously link in CNN...and sometimes MSNBC when those two networks combined have less viewership than Fox? Yet they are always held up by those talking about the "mainstream media" as the examples of the MSM.

How is their viewership numbers at all germane, unless its your contention that CNN and MSNBC dont qualify as mainstream media outlets? Surely you're not attempting to argue that? That's intellectually dishonest at best. That argument would hold water if he were arguing Fox News v Fox 56.

 

[Levibooty]

I guess that’s true for everyone.

No there are open minded people in the world who aren't trying to control other people's lives and beliefs.

 

[ukalum1988]

You won't see what you selectively ignore: "To the man and woman, everyone I got to know in our armed forces is conservative in the true sense of that word."

Congratulations on winning that debate point. Blue Decade was simply relating his perception of the philosophical outlook of people that he I presume he served with.

Of course not everyone who serves in the military is conservative. However, generally speaking, the military skews somewhat more conservative than the general population. Flaky liberals like Bowe Bergdahl are thankfully not plentiful in the armed forces. I frankly don’t care what their political outlook is so long uphold their pledge to defend our nation and its values, for which I am grateful.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

No there are open minded people in the world who aren't trying to control other people's lives and beliefs.

Yet, you won’t see what you selectively ignore.

 

[Levibooty]

Congratulations on winning that debate point. Blue Decade was simply relating his perception of the philosophical outlook of people that he I presume he served with.

Of course not everyone who serves in the military is conservative. However, generally speaking, the military skews somewhat more conservative than the general population. Flaky liberals like Bowe Bergdahl are thankfully not plentiful in the armed forces. I frankly don’t care what their political outlook is so long uphold their pledge to defend our nation and its values, for which I am grateful.

Winning a debate point in this case means you know what you're talking about and your opponent doesn't.
I'll call your Bergdahl and raise you one Timothy McVie's whose only know association was he was a member of the republican party.

 

[CB3UK]

No there are open minded people in the world who aren't trying to control other people's lives and beliefs.

That statement is true for people on both sides of the spectrum depending on what issue is being debated.

 

[Levibooty]

This thread was about Journalism. I think a population that wants to read their right instead of accuracy is the main culprit. I tend to think marketing and advertising has had an unhealthy influence on journalism.

 

[Levibooty]

That statement is true for people on both sides of the spectrum depending on what issue is being debated.

I don't disagree there are even some that post here, but they are a decidedly small number.

 

[CB3UK]

I don't disagree there are even some that post here, but they are a decidedly small number.

Well, my point more has to do with which side of a particular issue you fall on. One stance would be more about limiting an individual while the other isn't. And those stances vary right/left depending on the issue.

 

[ukalum1988]

Winning a debate point in this case means you know what you're talking about and your opponent doesn't.
I'll call your Bergdahl and raise you one Timothy McVie's whose only know association was he was a member of the republican party.

Okey dokey.

 

[morgousky]

Ever notice how liberal guys always back the media in this country, while telling you they don't believe it's slanted and unfair and biased?

Ever notice that?

Also did you ever notice that they still manage to attack Fox News, which, of the major news networks, has the MOST balanced coverage of all the networks?

Ever notice that?

Fox News host SAY they are conservatives. Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity ADMIT they are conservatives. Oreilly has always ADMITTED that he was a TRADITIONAL American who's voted for both parties, however today the left is too far form traditional to support. He ADMITTED that.

Chris Wallace is the hardest hard news guy in the business. He is a Democrat and pisses me off to no end at times.

CNN analyst, ABC analyst, NBC analyst, don't ADMIT ho far left they are, they tell you they are independent of ideology, fair, and responsible. They are proven liars.

If you don't understand this, it's because you are under the delusion that because self proclaimed "independent journalist" agree with you it's because you're right, and everyone else like Fox is nuts. When in fact it's the opposite, the moderate voices are not those networks.

 

[Shavers48]

Ever notice how liberal guys always back the media in this country, while telling you they don't believe it's slanted and unfair and biased?

Ever notice that?

Also did you ever notice that they still manage to attack Fox News, which, of the major news networks, has the MOST balanced coverage of all the networks?

Ever notice that?

Fox News host SAY they are conservatives. Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity ADMIT they are conservatives. Oreilly has always ADMITTED that he was a TRADITIONAL American who's voted for both parties, however today the left is too far form traditional to support. He ADMITTED that.

Chris Wallace is the hardest hard news guy in the business. He is a Democrat and pisses me off to no end at times.

CNN analyst, ABC analyst, NBC analyst, don't ADMIT ho far left they are, they tell you they are independent of ideology, fair, and responsible. They are proven liars.

If you don't understand this, it's because you are under the delusion that because self proclaimed "independent journalist" agree with you it's because you're right, and everyone else like Fox is nuts. When in fact it's the opposite, the moderate voices are not those networks.

no, never noticed that. what a bunch of nonsense. you've no idea what you're talking about - but think you do, so enjoy your delusions.

 

[catben]

Ever notice how liberal guys always back the media in this country, while telling you they don't believe it's slanted and unfair and biased?

Ever notice that?

Also did you ever notice that they still manage to attack Fox News, which, of the major news networks, has the MOST balanced coverage of all the networks?

Ever notice that?

Fox News host SAY they are conservatives. Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity ADMIT they are conservatives. Oreilly has always ADMITTED that he was a TRADITIONAL American who's voted for both parties, however today the left is too far form traditional to support. He ADMITTED that.

Chris Wallace is the hardest hard news guy in the business. He is a Democrat and pisses me off to no end at times.

CNN analyst, ABC analyst, NBC analyst, don't ADMIT ho far left they are, they tell you they are independent of ideology, fair, and responsible. They are proven liars.

If you don't understand this, it's because you are under the delusion that because self proclaimed "independent journalist" agree with you it's because you're right, and everyone else like Fox is nuts. When in fact it's the opposite, the moderate voices are not those networks.

BINGO!!

 

[Ky grandpa]

Ever notice how liberal guys always back the media in this country, while telling you they don't believe it's slanted and unfair and biased?

Ever notice that?

Also did you ever notice that they still manage to attack Fox News, which, of the major news networks, has the MOST balanced coverage of all the networks?

Ever notice that?

Fox News host SAY they are conservatives. Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity ADMIT they are conservatives. Oreilly has always ADMITTED that he was a TRADITIONAL American who's voted for both parties, however today the left is too far form traditional to support. He ADMITTED that.

Chris Wallace is the hardest hard news guy in the business. He is a Democrat and pisses me off to no end at times.

CNN analyst, ABC analyst, NBC analyst, don't ADMIT ho far left they are, they tell you they are independent of ideology, fair, and responsible. They are proven liars.

If you don't understand this, it's because you are under the delusion that because self proclaimed "independent journalist" agree with you it's because you're right, and everyone else like Fox is nuts. When in fact it's the opposite, the moderate voices are not those networks.

Right on!!!

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I'll call your Bergdahl and raise you one Timothy McVie's whose only know association was he was a member of the republican party.

Wow. This thread just left the tracks and is headed deep down the ravine. I predict and pray for a quick lockdown to put it out of its ugly misery.

 

[JDHoss]

I look at the news to see what events are happening. The rest (political bullshit, etc.) is for entertainment purposes only.

 

[Shavers48]

I look at the news to see what events are happening. The rest (political bullshit, etc.) is for entertainment purposes only.

sadly won't happen. news media has one purpose now: propaganda. hacktivism is about the only true investigative journalism left.