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Where should Murray be ranked amongst the incoming freshmen?

No doubt he is top 3 with the way he shimmies when he shoots a FT. I don't think I've seen him not shimmy when shooting one. Whats funny is that I was watching him play when a player on the opposing team was shimming at the FT line and he air balled and we all laughed. 2 min later Murray was fouled and he got up their and started shimmying very dramatically like dude did but he hit both his nothing but net.
 
I posted a thread about this about a month ago or something. Rivals still hasn't added him to the 2015 rankings since that time for some reason.

I am just going to guess he comes in at #5 after these recent performances. He's made an interesting case to be higher but just seems like what to expect from how Rivals seems to rank.

Doesn't matter regardless. Dude looks like he's going to be very, very good. All I care about.
 
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GonzoCat90 said:
No, because that's an incredibly specific hypothetical and not the one we're using to measure here.

I think that, as a prospect, Brown's defense, rebounding, size, versatility, athleticism and slashing make him able to contribute in a variety of ways on both ends of the floor.

He and Murray are too different to do a straight comparison, in the same way comparing Brandon Knight to MKG in "value" would be nearly impossible. I just believe he's one of just a few of players in 2015 that you could reasonably argue should be ranked near or above Murray.
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And if Brown had picked UK, most on here would be arguing the exact opposite position.

I don't think Brown played his best in the allstar games. He can shoot better than what he showed. Although, I'm not sure we'll see much of that (if we ever see him at all) playing for Martin at Cal.
 
he's a winner. i love that. no offense to bennett but when i heard the name mark few, i realized the defensive help was weak lol.

murray and skal in pick n roll will be scary. every team will zone us save ku. even unc. teams cannot switch on pick and roll or either skal has a small guy on him for two points, or murray gets a big man on him. and you saw what he did to tarzewski. he abused him each and every time with made shots and assists. if we can shoot somewhere in the 35% range from 3 we will be dominant again. we're small and have penetrators galore, but it's going to be all zone even still. we will be hard to stop. a lot has to go well obviously, we need a healthy poythress to win it all imo. wrong thread sorry.
 
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What amazes me more than anything is how Cal has rebounded with this group after losing to Wisconsin and losing 7 early to the NBA.
It has never happened before and may never happen again

Despite Dukes 2015 title UK is still College Basketball.
I bet K crapped a brick when Murray took off the Cape.
 
I mean top 5 for sure. But specifically I'd say 3rd.

1) Labissiere
2) Simmons
3) Murray
4) Ingram
5) Brown
6) Newman
7) Rabb
8) Diallo
9) Trier
10) Briscoe
 
Murray will be the best player to come out of this class... His game resembles
a bigger version of Steph Curry. Hes number #1 to me, I mean look how he destroyed Melo Trimble and then back to back dominating performance against USA in the Nike Hoops Summit. ..
 
UK2005_24 said:
Murray will be the best player to come out of this class... His game resembles
a bigger version of Steph Curry. Hes number #1 to me, I mean look how he destroyed Melo Trimble and then back to back dominating performance against USA in the Nike Hoops Summit. ..
Click to expand...

Okay, we need to chill wit the hyperbole...
 
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Where did I say he was at Stephs Level??? All I said this kid has a style of play similar to Stephs... This kid is only 18 and hes playing beyond his years.
 
This is what i think for CBB..now in 5 years who knows..
1) Labissiere
2) Simmons
3) Murray
4) Ingram
5) Brown
6) Newman
7) Trier
8) Diallo
9) Rabb
10) Zimmerman
11) Blakeney
 
UK2005_24 said:
Where did I say he was at Stephs Level??? All I said this kid has a style of play similar to Stephs... This kid is only 18 and hes playing beyond his years.
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you said he is bigger version of Steph Curry.

I don't think he is a bigger version of Steph Curry. That's like saying he is better than Steph Curry, and he isn't.

Ball handling of Steph is insane, not to mention the shooting. Murray has a LONG way to go before comparing to Steph.
 
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UK2005_24 said:
Where did I say he was at Stephs Level??? All I said this kid has a style of play similar to Stephs... This kid is only 18 and hes playing beyond his years.
Click to expand...


Well then you're just wrong.

WildMoon said:
you said he is bigger version of Steph Curry.

I don't think he is a bigger version of Steph Curry. That's like saying he is better than Steph Curry, and he isn't.

Ball handling of Steph is insane, not to mention the shooting. Murray has a LONG way to go before comparing to Steph.
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^^^^^^^
 
Don't just trust what you read online, but, imo, from a combination of what I've seen & heard, & read, Skal nor Murray are in the same ballpark as Chieck Diallo (certainly not Murray -- even though, of course, they play different positions). (Imho, it's preposterous that Diallo's ranked lower than #3 -- from what I've seen in games --- albeit, he hasn't played much, lately*.)

I strongly suspect Murray will struggle with truly athletic NCAA guards, especially those who are athletic veterans and well-coached in defense. Murray had NO choice but to recently play a lot of minutes and put-up a LOT of attempts. (Canada really needed him, yes; they were desperate for someone at that position). Thankfully, Murray stepped up GREAT (but honestly...plz consider the unathletic and limited competition).

Plus, it was all over the internet last week (websites and net radio) that Larry Brown (HOF coach), who our own coach openly compliments & calls "Coach" (since he worked under Brown [at multiple jobs]), (Brown) emphatically said Diallo was "the best in this class, and it's not even close (!)". (Fwiw, Brown also said KU's Vick is, without a doubt, one of the very best 5-stars -- this after Vick jumped up a class.)

Then there was the rumor that Diallo agreed to sit-out much of Nike Hoops Summit (practices & game) (at the request of Bill Self --for injury protection)(Self's already gone on record as saying Diallo is unlike anyone he's ever coached), (Diallo agreed to sit out) looking at 'the big picture' for himself, and also so 'the wealth' could be more spread around to other players during the all-star game, since of course, Diallo so easily took MVP at both McD's & Jordan Brand (in VERY limited minutes).

At 'Hoops Summit', Diallo only played 51 % of the minutes Murray was allowed to play, and only 68% of the minutes Skal was allowed to play. (I really worry about Skal being so underweight, so I can't WAIT for Wynyard!)

I guess most of these "Who's better?" rumors will be sorted out as we gradually see Skal, Murray and Diallo play against more elite athletes, then more directly, when we see our team go against Diallo & Co., in late January, in Lawrence.

I just want to make *honest* basketball comparisons; I want this to be an honest board, more than an ignorant 'UK Pep-Rally'.


Go Wildcats!
 
At least 23 Ws in 22 of past 35 seasons_UK 1980-81 said:
Plus, it was all over the internet last week (websites and net radio) that Larry Brown (HOF coach), who our own coach openly compliments & calls "Coach" (since he worked under Brown [at multiple jobs]), (Brown) emphatically said Diallo was "the best in this class, and it's not even close (!)". (Fwiw, Brown also said KU's Vick is, without a doubt, one of the very best 5-stars -- this after Vick jumped up a class.)

Then there was the rumor that Diallo agreed to sit-out much of Nike Hoops Summit (practices & game) (at the request of Bill Self --for injury protection)(Self's already gone on record as saying Diallo is unlike anyone he's ever coached), (Diallo agreed to sit out) looking at 'the big picture' for himself, and also so 'the wealth' could be more spread around to other players during the all-star game, since of course, Diallo so easily took MVP at both McD's & Jordan Brand (in VERY limited minutes).

At 'Hoops Summit', Diallo only played 51 % of the minutes Murray was allowed to play, and only 68% of the minutes Skal was allowed to play. (I really worry about Skal being so underweight, so I can't WAIT for Wynyard!)

I guess most of these "Who's better?" rumors will be sorted out as we gradually see Skal, Murray and Diallo play against more elite athletes, then more directly, when we see our team go against Diallo & Co., in late January, in Lawrence.

I just want to make *honest* basketball comparisons; I want this to be an honest board, more than an ignorant 'UK Pep-Rally'.


Go Wildcats!
Click to expand...

After reading your KU love story, no worries there.

Diallo is good, but he is no where near as good as Skal.
 
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Miscellaneous:

Not buying the Diallo hype.

The Ryan Harrow bashing gets so old. He had a few really good games. His DAD had a STROKE the very beginning of his year on the court here. That's all we need to remember about his curious season.
 
mj2k10 said:
At the Nike Hoop Summit, Simmons, Skal, and Murray looked like the best 3 players. Easily. At the time, it was kind of easy to downplay that, especially with Murray, because it was just an all-star game, and because the International team that all 3 of those guys played on didn't have the depth of talent of the US squad.

But I think the initial impression was right.

Maybe some of the bigger guys in the class will go higher in the draft, and maybe some of the more physically gifted wings will use their athletic ability to have a huge impact (thinking Brown and Ingram), but right now, the best PLAYERS in the 2015 class appear to be Simmons, Skal, and Murray. Simmons and Skal have the size and skill, so I still take them first, but there's no one else that I take ahead of Murray.
Click to expand...
Agree about Murray, and every list offered on this thread underestimates Briscoe too. Murray has been underrated because he is a reclassified Canadian who got no media coverage prior to the NHS. During the postseason ASGs, Briscoe proved he is also 1 of the best players in the class. Most people are underestimating Diallo and overestimating Brown.

Labissiere
Simmons
Murray
Diallo
Ingram
Briscoe
Trier
Newman
Brown
Rabb
 
At least 23 Ws in 22 of past 35 seasons_UK 1980-81 said:
Don't just trust what you read online, but, imo, from a combination of what I've seen & heard, & read, Skal nor Murray are in the same ballpark as Chieck Diallo (certainly not Murray -- even though, of course, they play different positions). (Imho, it's preposterous that Diallo's ranked lower than #3 -- from what I've seen in games --- albeit, he hasn't played much, lately*.)

I strongly suspect Murray will struggle with truly athletic NCAA guards, especially those who are athletic veterans and well-coached in defense. Murray had NO choice but to recently play a lot of minutes and put-up a LOT of attempts. (Canada really needed him, yes; they were desperate for someone at that position). Thankfully, Murray stepped up GREAT (but honestly...plz consider the unathletic and limited competition).

Plus, it was all over the internet last week (websites and net radio) that Larry Brown (HOF coach), who our own coach openly compliments & calls "Coach" (since he worked under Brown [at multiple jobs]), (Brown) emphatically said Diallo was "the best in this class, and it's not even close (!)". (Fwiw, Brown also said KU's Vick is, without a doubt, one of the very best 5-stars -- this after Vick jumped up a class.)

Then there was the rumor that Diallo agreed to sit-out much of Nike Hoops Summit (practices & game) (at the request of Bill Self --for injury protection)(Self's already gone on record as saying Diallo is unlike anyone he's ever coached), (Diallo agreed to sit out) looking at 'the big picture' for himself, and also so 'the wealth' could be more spread around to other players during the all-star game, since of course, Diallo so easily took MVP at both McD's & Jordan Brand (in VERY limited minutes).

At 'Hoops Summit', Diallo only played 51 % of the minutes Murray was allowed to play, and only 68% of the minutes Skal was allowed to play. (I really worry about Skal being so underweight, so I can't WAIT for Wynyard!)

I guess most of these "Who's better?" rumors will be sorted out as we gradually see Skal, Murray and Diallo play against more elite athletes, then more directly, when we see our team go against Diallo & Co., in late January, in Lawrence.

I just want to make *honest* basketball comparisons; I want this to be an honest board, more than an ignorant 'UK Pep-Rally'.


Go Wildcats!
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. When I want an objective report I always go to see what a former Kansas coach tells a Kansas reporter.

You'll forgive me if I trust my own eyes here. Murray outplayed (everyone) several athletic guards at the NHS. He also abused Melo Trimble at PanAm games. So I'm not worried about him in the least.
 
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I appreciate when rival fans are up front about who they cheer for. I like that Mr. TL;DR just put it out in the open.
 
Said it at the time (before it appeared we had a great shot at him) and still feel the same way- considering our needs, I wanted Murray more than of the other studs we went after in the spring. We needed a guy who could shoot and create his own shot next to Ulis and Briscoe.

From what I've seen, I'd rank Murray #3 and no lower than #5. Simmons, Skal , Diallo and maybe Brown are the only guys I'd consider.
 
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ThroughBlue said:
No way Diallo should even be considered better than Murray.
Click to expand...

Well, yes, except that nearly every, single, one of Diallo's per-minute stats has been way, way, WAY better than Murray's; Murray's had to play twice as many minutes, and put up way more FG attempts, just to equal Diallo's recent, multiple-MVP stats (i.e., Diallo's been about twice as effective).

To earn 'Hoops Summit' MVP, Murray had to play a whole lot of minutes and put up a lot of attempts.

I suspect the Pan-Am 'Murray-hype' fad should simmer-down by February.

Sure, it'd be nice if Murray were a very special player. He can be solid, but who else on the Canadian roster could have replaced him? Their team's mediocrity made him look good. (Hey, at least he was much better than Team USA's Trimble, who had absolutely NO business being out there. The fact that Trimble beat-out VanVleet is just beyond insane. VanVleet's better at everything.)

You can't say Murray's a ball hog, because Team Canada didn't have many options, but, from what I saw, I suspect Murray will have trouble sharing the rock at UK, and that's not good when you consider his stats show he isn't that efficient.

Our fans can't seem to see anything except what they want to ("head in the clouds").

If you were to look at Murray's stats, per minute, versus, say, KU's Frank Mason in the recent World University Games ...(which was a more loaded/talented/deeper tournament [with no home-court advantage]) (and anyone who thinks the elite Pan-Am teams were more athletic or skilled than the elite 'World Uni. Games' teams is simply out of their minds -- the top-5 WUG teams would've all beaten the top Pan-Am teams -- soundly)... or, if you were to disregard stats and simply use "the eye test", there's absolutely no doubt Murray is 'a cut below' athletically and efficiency-wise, not to mention experience-wise. (Some recruiting services ranked him a 4-star until be made his college choice.)

Now, am I glad he'll be a freshman on our team? Yes, sure, but there's no way in HELL I'm buying all this unsupported and over-blown draft hype. LoL. Yes, he did a nice job in the Pan-Am games. Just leave it at that, folks, until he consistently plays elite and athletic talent, performs much more efficiently and can share the damn ball. His assist numbers aren't very good because a player who has the ball as much as he did will surely get some assists along the way (as a side-effect).

Go Cats!
 
Pretty stellar move to know that as a troll you won't get to make many posts, so you just load them all with words. Kind of a concentrated volume approach. The other neat part is that no one actually reads all that garbage.
 
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At least 23 Ws in 22 of past 35 seasons_UK 1980-81 said:
Well, yes, except that nearly every, single, one of Diallo's per-minute stats has been way, way, WAY better than Murray's; Murray's had to play twice as many minutes, and put up way more FG attempts, just to equal Diallo's recent, multiple-MVP stats (i.e., Diallo's been about twice as effective).

To earn 'Hoops Summit' MVP, Murray had to play a whole lot of minutes and put up a lot of attempts.

I suspect the Pan-Am 'Murray-hype' fad should simmer-down by February.

Sure, it'd be nice if Murray were a very special player. He can be solid, but who else on the Canadian roster could have replaced him? Their team's mediocrity made him look good. (Hey, at least he was much better than Team USA's Trimble, who had absolutely NO business being out there. The fact that Trimble beat-out VanVleet is just beyond insane. VanVleet's better at everything.)

You can't say Murray's a ball hog, because Team Canada didn't have many options, but, from what I saw, I suspect Murray will have trouble sharing the rock at UK, and that's not good when you consider his stats show he isn't that efficient.

Our fans can't seem to see anything except what they want to ("head in the clouds").

If you were to look at Murray's stats, per minute, versus, say, KU's Frank Mason in the recent World University Games ...(which was a more loaded/talented/deeper tournament [with no home-court advantage]) (and anyone who thinks the elite Pan-Am teams were more athletic or skilled than the elite 'World Uni. Games' teams is simply out of their minds -- the top-5 WUG teams would've all beaten the top Pan-Am teams -- soundly)... or, if you were to disregard stats and simply use "the eye test", there's absolutely no doubt Murray is 'a cut below' athletically and efficiency-wise, not to mention experience-wise. (Some recruiting services ranked him a 4-star until be made his college choice.)

Now, am I glad he'll be a freshman on our team? Yes, sure, but there's no way in HELL I'm buying all this unsupported and over-blown draft hype. LoL. Yes, he did a nice job in the Pan-Am games. Just leave it at that, folks, until he consistently plays elite and athletic talent, performs much more efficiently and can share the damn ball. His assist numbers aren't very good because a player who has the ball as much as he did will surely get some assists along the way (as a side-effect).

Go Cats!
Click to expand...




Our fans? Our team? Who do you think you are fooling?

troll-online-web-content-twitter-facebook-internet.jpg
 
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GonzoCat90 said:
Pretty stellar move to know that as a troll you won't get to make many posts, so you just load them all with words. Kind of a concentrated volume approach. The other neat part is that no one actually reads all that garbage.
Click to expand...

(sigh)

I'm not a troll, however, YOU don't have to believe that.

I like deep, UK basketball discussions.

All I'm saying is: After viewing Murray recently -- with my own Kentucky eyes -- I can now make a somewhat stronger guess that Murray is PROBABLY NOT *THE* answer (but maybe he is) (to the likely problems of our upcoming-season's team). He won't fix our small number of experienced upperclassmen*.

*By "experienced" I mean players who actually played D1 ball LAST season -- Poy, unfortunately, is still somewhat of a question-mark and Mulder doesn't fit that description; he's learning a brand-new system. Who's that leave? Lee? Lee didn't even play 500 minutes, last season, and further, a lot of those minutes came during "two platoons" time!

Even with Murray, overall, our guards are small (compared to other elite teams), but that doesn't bother me as much as our lack of experience.

We went to the Final Four last season because of our height, depth and experience at key positions. We simply won't have that this season.

We went to the Final Four two seasons-ago mostly because of a handful of highly unlikely late-shot-clock/game-clock buzzer-beating buckets. With our upcoming, thin and non-deep front-court, and our lack of experience, we can't just assume we'll be great by March. We were pretty average much of the season in 2013-14, but then everything suddenly 'clicked', almost perfectly. You never know, of course, but it would be SO unwise to expect everything to fall in place like that again, during March.

I get the feeling that a lot of our fans think this is going to be a 2013-14 repeat, except with a championship win. No. I wish it were true, but no.

And just bc you don't like what I say doesn't make it less true.

Let's look at who we have coming in:

* I love what Matthews appears to bring, and early reports are that he's "as advertised" or better.

*Skal will be a great, GREAT defensive presence, at the very least, and, if he can hold his ground, stay out of foul trouble, and not tire from teams with Forward depth, a very good offensive presence.

* By March Briscoe and Murray will bring aggressive mentalities and will be able to create & score against solid (but maybe not great -- we'll see) competition. Murray certainly needs to gain experience and develop his athleticism. (Is he used to sharing the ball or guarding true & experienced athletes?)

* Mulder is rather small, but is athletic and can apparently 'fill it up' from outside.

*Our guards will be overall small & thin and, aside from our star sophomore, Ulis, inexperienced.

*We only return 21% of last season's minutes (!!!) and Ulis holds a whopping 51% of that 21%. (Double-Yikes!)

*Come down to Earth, folks, and just be happy that, by March, our team should be starting to gel.

*Yes, our five, new players will be very, very good pieces, but we lost SO much, and we've become kind of desensitized to the common realities and dangers of March Madness early exits. Other teams will sense that we're having somewhat of a down year and will, thus, try extra hard.

*We'll likely have multiple losses early, in OOC, then our conference slate will be SO MUCH tougher than last season's, because our league finally has some decent-to-great new coaches. I look for 4-8 losses by SEC Tournament time.

Since several of you keep saying I'm a Kansas fan, well then why don't we talk about Kansas, shall we?

*For starters, just because I don't think our team compares favorably to Kansas (at all -- not this season) doesn't mean I'll go as far as to cheer for Kansas. I certainly won't. I'm a Wildcat, through-and-through, but is this a UK pep-rally or a place to talk honestly about competitive basketball?

* Can't a true UK fan also appreciate KU?

I don't want this thread to get derailed with KU talk, BUT, since some of you seem to keep having a hang-up with bashing KU, I might as well say:

*If I really wanted to anger fans re: KU, I could just say that, right this minute, much of KU's campus and athletic department is growing "like mad", including the construction of new basketball facilities (basketball players are currently moving into brand-new, unofficially "basketball" dorms [McCarthy Hall], and have that new, all-glass, "basketball rules" building [DeBruce Center] well underway).

Plus, Lawrence very recently built "Rock Chalk Park", a huge, AAU-tournament supporting, multi-sport facility.

And the KC area still hosts AAU (recruit-friendly) events.

Just Google "KU campus construction" images & articles or somethin'. Current, KU-wide construction is EXTREMELY expen$ive. For one, there are a LOT of brand-spankin'-new residence halls suddenly up on one of their campus hills (about to open). Their campus is already VERY hilly, wooded and expensive (gorgeous, I think) and their endowment funds from rich Kansas Citian graduates are apparently still huge.

Point being: If you think it's tough recruiting over KU and dealing with their obnoxious fans -- their recent, recruiting "victories" -- NOW, then (pffffftt) just wait a year or two, when recruits are continuously awe-struck by their tours around KU's gorgeous-yet-improved campus.

Foremost, I'm here to talk about UK basketball -- and I DID -- but, after hearing your "You're a KU supporter" flack, I think WE ALL (representing the great state of Kentucky) shouldn't be so sensensitive to the fact that there are OTHER great teams and places to be.

I think our team, this season, will be good -- sometimes great.

I don't think we will be great consistently, because we're not experienced enough or deep enough, but we're still the # 1 program (25 games ahead of KU, in all-time wins, and WAYYYY ahead of 'em, in head-to-head match-ups).

Again, I like deep basketball discussions.

Murray's good, but, imo, not great. I don't think his Pan-Am hype will last through the season (but I hope he does become much better). And, our team definitely needed him, but he's not THE answer. Our team has too many voids to fill. (Hopefully Wynyard joins the team, but. Imo, even HE won't help put us 'over the top' [so to speak].)

I don't think there's any way we'll be better than Kansas, but isn't that completely beside the point of this thread? I began by simply comparing Murray to Mason. I guess that was a mistake on this board. After a season, I think Murray could get to Mason's level.

I wish 'Murray and company' lots of luck, and def. will be cheering!!

(I apologize for spelling/grammar [topic maintenance] mistakes and I'm just trying to directly address your comments, however long that takes.)

Since I guess I anger many of you, I hereby promise to not post anymore on this board UNTIL the season starts.

I'll come back and "eat crow" here if I'm wrong about KU being much better than us. Just looking at pre-season talent estimates, though, I just don't see us finishing within 25 points, in Lawrence.



Go Cats!!



(...and see you in November.)
 
At least 23 Ws in 22 of past 35 seasons_UK 1980-81 said:
(sigh)

I'm not a troll, however, YOU don't have to believe that.

Since I guess I anger many of you, I hereby promise to not post anymore on this board UNTIL the season starts
Click to expand...

Aren't you quite the lil' drama queen? Must have majored in KU's fine arts program. Ya'll still wearing those leotards these days?


No one is angry here. You didn't stir the pot. This board is hardened to trolls like you. Up your game and cut the words by 1000 or no one is even going to take you serious as a troll.
 
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At least 23 Ws in 22 of past 35 seasons_UK 1980-81 said:
Well, yes, except that nearly every, single, one of Diallo's per-minute stats has been way, way, WAY better than Murray's; Murray's had to play twice as many minutes, and put up way more FG attempts, just to equal Diallo's recent, multiple-MVP stats (i.e., Diallo's been about twice as effective).

To earn 'Hoops Summit' MVP, Murray had to play a whole lot of minutes and put up a lot of attempts.

I suspect the Pan-Am 'Murray-hype' fad should simmer-down by February.

Sure, it'd be nice if Murray were a very special player. He can be solid, but who else on the Canadian roster could have replaced him? Their team's mediocrity made him look good. (Hey, at least he was much better than Team USA's Trimble, who had absolutely NO business being out there. The fact that Trimble beat-out VanVleet is just beyond insane. VanVleet's better at everything.)

You can't say Murray's a ball hog, because Team Canada didn't have many options, but, from what I saw, I suspect Murray will have trouble sharing the rock at UK, and that's not good when you consider his stats show he isn't that efficient.

Our fans can't seem to see anything except what they want to ("head in the clouds").

If you were to look at Murray's stats, per minute, versus, say, KU's Frank Mason in the recent World University Games ...(which was a more loaded/talented/deeper tournament [with no home-court advantage]) (and anyone who thinks the elite Pan-Am teams were more athletic or skilled than the elite 'World Uni. Games' teams is simply out of their minds -- the top-5 WUG teams would've all beaten the top Pan-Am teams -- soundly)... or, if you were to disregard stats and simply use "the eye test", there's absolutely no doubt Murray is 'a cut below' athletically and efficiency-wise, not to mention experience-wise. (Some recruiting services ranked him a 4-star until be made his college choice.)

Now, am I glad he'll be a freshman on our team? Yes, sure, but there's no way in HELL I'm buying all this unsupported and over-blown draft hype. LoL. Yes, he did a nice job in the Pan-Am games. Just leave it at that, folks, until he consistently plays elite and athletic talent, performs much more efficiently and can share the damn ball. His assist numbers aren't very good because a player who has the ball as much as he did will surely get some assists along the way (as a side-effect).

Go Cats!
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Hey, bloviating imposter troll, using a whole lot of words to try to defend a completely irrational opinion does not make that opinion any less irrational.

Here are some other players who competed in the Pan Am games- Kyle Wiltjer, Dillon Brooks (who BTW, averaged 19 a game at the 19U championsips), Melo Trimble, Ron Baker, Malcolm Brogdan, Denzel Valentine, Taurean Prince, and Kaleb Tarczewski. Just to use a random, pre pre-season poll, that list of players includes the leading returning scorers for the teams USA Today has ranked 4th, 5th, 8th, 11th, 12th, 14th, and 25th.

Were any of those guys remotely close to as productive as Murray? That would be a no, and a Hell no. And it's not like Murray was hogging it up on a crap team- his team played for the gold, and beat the US team that had 6 of the guys I mentioned. He was also relatively efficient, shooting 45% overall, 40% from 3, and hitting 13/15 FT's. Those are facts, as opposed to the voluminous hot air you seem intent on blowing.

So do us all a favor- stop trying to pose as a UK fan, stuff a sock in it, and get on back to a Kansas board. You flippin' idiot.
 
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As for where he ranks, truth is we don't know. Look at 2012 final rankings 1.austin rivers 2. Anthony Davis. Lmk when rivers is the highest paid player in the league. Some of the expectations put on this kid are crazy. If he isn't cold blooded like Jordan, has handles like Steph curry, and shoot like Larry bird then he will become the biggest bust ever.
 
ThroughBlue said:
No way Diallo should even be considered better than Murray.
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Exactly. Diallo looks like he's going to be a great player someday. Maybe this coming season, maybe later. I would have loved for him to choose UK and he did indeed look like one of the better players in the All-star games (along with Skal, Murray, Simmons, maybe Ingram and Briscoe).

But from what I've seen Diallo is essentially a garbage man. A potentially elite garbage man, no doubt, but still a garbage man. (And what I mean by that term is someone who runs the floor, gets offensive rebounds, provides energy and does the dirty work etc. but isn't necessarily going to be an essential part of the offense.)

But what Murray does is in a different league entirely. Murray can not only break down the defense and get his own shot, he can orchestrate and control the offense, including at crunch time. Those are skills that are not only extremely valuable but are very uncommon and hard to find, especially in someone his age.
 
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At least 23 Ws in 22 of past 35 seasons_UK 1980-81 said:
(sigh)

I'm not a troll, however, YOU don't have to believe that.

I like deep, UK basketball discussions.

All I'm saying is: After viewing Murray recently -- with my own Kentucky eyes -- I can now make a somewhat stronger guess that Murray is PROBABLY NOT *THE* answer (but maybe he is) (to the likely problems of our upcoming-season's team). He won't fix our small number of experienced upperclassmen*.

*By "experienced" I mean players who actually played D1 ball LAST season -- Poy, unfortunately, is still somewhat of a question-mark and Mulder doesn't fit that description; he's learning a brand-new system. Who's that leave? Lee? Lee didn't even play 500 minutes, last season, and further, a lot of those minutes came during "two platoons" time!

Even with Murray, overall, our guards are small (compared to other elite teams), but that doesn't bother me as much as our lack of experience.

We went to the Final Four last season because of our height, depth and experience at key positions. We simply won't have that this season.

We went to the Final Four two seasons-ago mostly because of a handful of highly unlikely late-shot-clock/game-clock buzzer-beating buckets. With our upcoming, thin and non-deep front-court, and our lack of experience, we can't just assume we'll be great by March. We were pretty average much of the season in 2013-14, but then everything suddenly 'clicked', almost perfectly. You never know, of course, but it would be SO unwise to expect everything to fall in place like that again, during March.

I get the feeling that a lot of our fans think this is going to be a 2013-14 repeat, except with a championship win. No. I wish it were true, but no.

And just bc you don't like what I say doesn't make it less true.

Let's look at who we have coming in:

* I love what Matthews appears to bring, and early reports are that he's "as advertised" or better.

*Skal will be a great, GREAT defensive presence, at the very least, and, if he can hold his ground, stay out of foul trouble, and not tire from teams with Forward depth, a very good offensive presence.

* By March Briscoe and Murray will bring aggressive mentalities and will be able to create & score against solid (but maybe not great -- we'll see) competition. Murray certainly needs to gain experience and develop his athleticism. (Is he used to sharing the ball or guarding true & experienced athletes?)

* Mulder is rather small, but is athletic and can apparently 'fill it up' from outside.

*Our guards will be overall small & thin and, aside from our star sophomore, Ulis, inexperienced.

*We only return 21% of last season's minutes (!!!) and Ulis holds a whopping 51% of that 21%. (Double-Yikes!)

*Come down to Earth, folks, and just be happy that, by March, our team should be starting to gel.

*Yes, our five, new players will be very, very good pieces, but we lost SO much, and we've become kind of desensitized to the common realities and dangers of March Madness early exits. Other teams will sense that we're having somewhat of a down year and will, thus, try extra hard.

*We'll likely have multiple losses early, in OOC, then our conference slate will be SO MUCH tougher than last season's, because our league finally has some decent-to-great new coaches. I look for 4-8 losses by SEC Tournament time.

Since several of you keep saying I'm a Kansas fan, well then why don't we talk about Kansas, shall we?

*For starters, just because I don't think our team compares favorably to Kansas (at all -- not this season) doesn't mean I'll go as far as to cheer for Kansas. I certainly won't. I'm a Wildcat, through-and-through, but is this a UK pep-rally or a place to talk honestly about competitive basketball?

* Can't a true UK fan also appreciate KU?

I don't want this thread to get derailed with KU talk, BUT, since some of you seem to keep having a hang-up with bashing KU, I might as well say:

*If I really wanted to anger fans re: KU, I could just say that, right this minute, much of KU's campus and athletic department is growing "like mad", including the construction of new basketball facilities (basketball players are currently moving into brand-new, unofficially "basketball" dorms [McCarthy Hall], and have that new, all-glass, "basketball rules" building [DeBruce Center] well underway).

Plus, Lawrence very recently built "Rock Chalk Park", a huge, AAU-tournament supporting, multi-sport facility.

And the KC area still hosts AAU (recruit-friendly) events.

Just Google "KU campus construction" images & articles or somethin'. Current, KU-wide construction is EXTREMELY expen$ive. For one, there are a LOT of brand-spankin'-new residence halls suddenly up on one of their campus hills (about to open). Their campus is already VERY hilly, wooded and expensive (gorgeous, I think) and their endowment funds from rich Kansas Citian graduates are apparently still huge.

Point being: If you think it's tough recruiting over KU and dealing with their obnoxious fans -- their recent, recruiting "victories" -- NOW, then (pffffftt) just wait a year or two, when recruits are continuously awe-struck by their tours around KU's gorgeous-yet-improved campus.

Foremost, I'm here to talk about UK basketball -- and I DID -- but, after hearing your "You're a KU supporter" flack, I think WE ALL (representing the great state of Kentucky) shouldn't be so sensensitive to the fact that there are OTHER great teams and places to be.

I think our team, this season, will be good -- sometimes great.

I don't think we will be great consistently, because we're not experienced enough or deep enough, but we're still the # 1 program (25 games ahead of KU, in all-time wins, and WAYYYY ahead of 'em, in head-to-head match-ups).

Again, I like deep basketball discussions.

Murray's good, but, imo, not great. I don't think his Pan-Am hype will last through the season (but I hope he does become much better). And, our team definitely needed him, but he's not THE answer. Our team has too many voids to fill. (Hopefully Wynyard joins the team, but. Imo, even HE won't help put us 'over the top' [so to speak].)

I don't think there's any way we'll be better than Kansas, but isn't that completely beside the point of this thread? I began by simply comparing Murray to Mason. I guess that was a mistake on this board. After a season, I think Murray could get to Mason's level.

I wish 'Murray and company' lots of luck, and def. will be cheering!!

(I apologize for spelling/grammar [topic maintenance] mistakes and I'm just trying to directly address your comments, however long that takes.)

Since I guess I anger many of you, I hereby promise to not post anymore on this board UNTIL the season starts.

I'll come back and "eat crow" here if I'm wrong about KU being much better than us. Just looking at pre-season talent estimates, though, I just don't see us finishing within 25 points, in Lawrence.



Go Cats!!



(...and see you in November.)
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I don't know what I like best about this idiot- his stupid handle, his awful basketball IQ, his garbage posts or the fact his posts run 1,000 words a pop.

You have to be a real loser to get your jollies off trying to annoy people on the internet.

You're terrible and now on ignore.
 
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wcc31 said:
I don't know what I like best about this idiot- his stupid handle, his awful basketball IQ, his garbage posts or the fact his posts run 1,000 words a pop.

You have to be a real loser to get your jollies off trying to annoy people on the internet.

You're terrible and now on ignore.
Click to expand...
I think what I like best about this guy is we get to peak inside how Kansas fans' work. Everything KU does is much harder and more impressive. And everything a UK player does only raises more questions about whether they will be able to do that against less heralded college players. Good thing our team might be gelling once March rolls around because it always takes Calipari so long to get his young teams to play together.
 
Kansas fans' obsession with UK- although completely understandable considering how much we've owned them throughout history and recently- is just about the most pathetic thing I've ever witnessed in sports.
 
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