Walter Clayton Jr was #69 ranked portal player in 2023. It seems like most fans are distraught on not landing top five portal players. Just thought this fact may remind everyone of that talent evaluation and player development is tricky.
Walter Clayton Jr was #69 ranked portal player in 2023
- Thread starter Drcatfan
- Start date
Just goes to show you that rankings are nothing more than opinions.
Walter Clayton had very good numbers when he left Iona (16.9ppg, 45% fg and 43% 3fg). It shouldn't be much of a surprise that he turned out to be a great player at Florida.
Walter Clayton had very good numbers when he left Iona (16.9ppg, 45% fg and 43% 3fg). It shouldn't be much of a surprise that he turned out to be a great player at Florida.
Yep. You can’t pass on #1 portal player Hunter Dickinson, for example, when the chance comes along, and risk everything on him for two years. What could go wrong?
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Yeah I know the rankings aren't a sure fire thing. I look and get more concerned with their shooting percentage etc...
I don't see how you can rank players for the portal, just to many variables.
Walton Clayton had a 119 offensive rating in 2023 with Iona. He shot 95% from the free throw line. He also shot 43% from 3. Great assist rate and steal % as well.
The signs were there lol.
The signs were there lol.
The biggest trick with the portal is finding players with particular skill sets and measurables that fit with the roster you are trying to construct.
Any given player that was a good, solid player on their former team can become something special when they are surrounded by the right pieces, and plugged into the right system.
Any given player that was a good, solid player on their former team can become something special when they are surrounded by the right pieces, and plugged into the right system.
I’ll take the number one guy out of high school and you take the number 69 player. You lose almost every time.
I'd argue ranking HS kids is even harder, by a lot.
At least with college kids, you have seen what they can do at the college level. Even if it's a player from a mid major, it's still going to give you a good read on what that player is capable of.
We tried that with Cal. And as I recall, we did more than our share of losing. That number 1 guy doesn't reach his full potential in year one. Then he's gone. The number 69 guy usually sticks around long enough to become a senior. As a senior, he brings more to the table than a much higher rated freshman who lacks experience. It really shows in the tournament when these hotshot freshmen end up choking. And they always do.
Highschool is different than portal recruiting
#1 recruit out of highschool is an athletic freak most of the time and far superior to everyone else
I don’t know who does these rankings, but this was NOT the perception among coaches when Clayton entered the portal in 2023.
If you looked at Clayton's stats before Florida you'd know he would be good anywhere. Absolutely elite shooter. Whoever ranked him that low is an idiot. Shooting translates more than any other skill maybe outside of rebounding.
You missed the point in multiple ways.
Broome was a 3 star player. He was 471 in the national ranking. If Broome was in the portal at an earlier time then you wouldn't have given him the time of day. You would be the Johnny-come-lately only after his name became more popular at another school.
Clayton didn't change. He's just NOW more well-known to people who only identified players by ranking. If you were a coach you wouldn't have even bothered looking at Clayton in the portal.
Here's what a team would look like with you in charge- Your team would win the conference once every 6 years. The ceiling would typically only making the sweet sixteen.
You might have one year out of ten making the elite 8 and be thinking you're doing great.
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Well now he's one of the best guards I've seen in the last 15 years. He literally needs no space to get a 3 off, which is incredible for his size. Every time he shoots I think it's going in and dude is clutch asf.
Who had ever heard of Oweh before we signed him? I'm a big college basketball fan and admit I'd never heard of him. Never watched Oklahoma play. My point is, who knows what your getting until u see how they fit and are utilized correctly.
Point taken that he wasn’t seen by analysts as a surefire standout at the time, but as a general rule, I think we can get too caught up in the numerical rankings with this stuff. There’s probably going to be a couple of standouts (this year Yaxel and Dent seem to be those guys) who most scouts think are better than the rest, and then a whole lot of guys who truthfully are regarded pretty similarly. We act like the difference between the #15 player on the list and the #40 player is massive, but they could very well grade out pretty similarly if you look past just the number beside their name on a list. Coaching, opportunity, and fit play a huge role in whether some of these guys are successful or not after transferring.
I'm not necessarily sure I agree with the notion of you can't tell until they get here. Clayton already had the numbers before he came to Florida. Broome already had the numbers before he came to Auburn. It's not as if some light blub went on for these guys after transferring. They were similar players that got more spotlight due to playing for bigger schools than they were playing for.
Oweh now very much did improve. He took a massive step between Oklahoma and UK but he also took a big step in years 1 and 2 at OU. Maybe he just needed a bit of time before getting to his potential.
But I go back......most of the time players are what they are. I have no idea why on earth Clayton would have been ranked 69th. They clearly weren't looking at the numbers.
Oweh now very much did improve. He took a massive step between Oklahoma and UK but he also took a big step in years 1 and 2 at OU. Maybe he just needed a bit of time before getting to his potential.
But I go back......most of the time players are what they are. I have no idea why on earth Clayton would have been ranked 69th. They clearly weren't looking at the numbers.
Well, if you can get the #1 HS recruit, you definitely take him. I mean, we're talking about a Wall, Zion, AD, Flagg, Dybansta, Towns, Fox or Randle type of player. Those guys have elite size, athleticism, length and skill.
Guys go to the portal, because they aren't going to the NBA in most cases.
Now, once you get outside the top 10 in HS recruiting, you're going to start seeing guys that have flaws and they probably won't reach their potential until they're gone.
But let's not forget, Florida didn't get Clayton last summer, this is his 2nd year at Florida. He is a lot better player now than he was last year.
If it were me, I would try like hell to get a top 10 HS recruit or 2 every year. Depending on the rest the roster, I might try to avoid guys outside the top 10, unless they have a skill I know will translate.
But I like the portal better. You know what those players can do in college and you don't have to court them for years to get a commitment, it's a very short process.
Guys go to the portal, because they aren't going to the NBA in most cases.
Now, once you get outside the top 10 in HS recruiting, you're going to start seeing guys that have flaws and they probably won't reach their potential until they're gone.
But let's not forget, Florida didn't get Clayton last summer, this is his 2nd year at Florida. He is a lot better player now than he was last year.
If it were me, I would try like hell to get a top 10 HS recruit or 2 every year. Depending on the rest the roster, I might try to avoid guys outside the top 10, unless they have a skill I know will translate.
But I like the portal better. You know what those players can do in college and you don't have to court them for years to get a commitment, it's a very short process.
Actually I got the point but was making a different point. Trying to constantly find the diamond in the rough is rare but you have to go with the statistics. I’m not willing to do it but if you go back and look at the 69th ranked players as your best player on the team, I bet you end up with EKU success vs UK success. You can expect to build a team year in and year out with players who can’t play just hoping to find that one gem. It also doesn’t have anything to do with just rankings but it’s simply a gage when you start looking for players.
We have done nothing of consequence in the portal so far. You have to have both. Just like this year athletic teams caused us trouble and we didn’t have a go to guy game in and game out. You still need the Jimmys and Joes.
You are completely wrong relating cal to what I said. In no way shape or form did I say get a large group of one and done players from high school.
Even then. We had a high number of transfers but no one to go to. You have to have a number one guy. Our team was the perfect example of what I’m saying. You can’t just have portal guys and expect to win big.
Well, we're about to find out just how good Mark Pope is at finding those diamonds. Lowe is the perfect example. He doesn't seem to be a good fit, but neither did Oweh, Williams and Garrison.
If Lowe turns into a star here, I think we all just need to fully trust that Pope is very good at player evaluations. I mean, I think we already know that, but Lowe just seems further away than the others as far as fit goes.
Right - what this tells me is that rankings of portal players isn't reliable. Remember, Louisville had a higher ranked portal class than we did. We had some of our best guys way down the list in rankings. Butler being a FF veteran and conference defensive player of the year meant more to me than someone's ranking number. I was very pleased with our portal haul last year despite so-called experts having us not even a top-25 portal class. Both Clayton and Broome were putting up star numbers at a small school before transferring and if we got somebody transferring here, ranked outside the top 50 by some "expert" but with their numbers, I'd be ecstatic.
I knew he was a good one for Florida, but he's morphed into Steph Curry. WCJ is why Florida is still playing. Both teams had to make crazy comebacks to remain alive. Florida wins by 7. Chomp Chomp Chomp
I agree but still think we need a go to guy at some point. I trust Pope is doing his best.
It’s really tricky because a guy who averages 19 a game in the Sun Belt may or may not do better in the SEC than a guy who averages 10 in the ACC. You just don’t know how those little conference guys are going to translate.
And remember, the ranking lists are made by the media and they have DAYS to watch film and make these decisions once they declare, unlike years with HS kids. I’m sure they have smart guys doing the evaluations but the coaches who are considering their own strategies and team needs are going to have a MUCH better idea of who their team needs over just a ranking system.
Case in point, according to 247, Mark Pope only landed ONE transfer in the top 30 this past year and it was Brandon Garrison. I would have put him as our 7th best transfer personally. Oh and Amari Williams was ranked #84. And he made the sweet 16 with that roster.
This year’s Final Four disagrees with you.
Maybe we need to drop into the 50sand 60s in the portal!
Good luck with that. The exception doesn’t prove the rule.
From 2020 through 2023 our national recruiting rankings were . . . #1, #1, #2 and #1. We went 80-46, lost 36% of the time. Rankings are not insignificant but apparently there is more to it.
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