UK is an attractive job for a head coach

[PensacolaBlue]

First off, this is not a negative post about Stoops. He’s our coach and I’m
behind him and the team. I hope we have a great offseason and win 8+ games next year.

Having said that, when Stoops decides to go, we WILL be able to get a great replacement. This idea that the program will fall by the wayside is looking at the past and letting it determine the future.

1. We are willing to pay top 10 pay. Good pay for assistant coaches. That in and of itself means we can get a serviceable replacement.
2. We play in the SEC and somebody can do what no other coach has done, make us consistently into a top SEC program similar to what is happening at Ole Miss.
3. Very good facilities. Maybe not the best but much better than when Stoops came. Kudos to CMS for getting that done.
4. Fantastic city and state to raise a family.
5. A great fan base that will fill a stadium and travel.

The only big negative I see would be NIL, and I’m hoping somehow we can figure that out. I think the fact that Kentucky doesn’t have much high school talent is a little overplayed because great recruiters aren’t restricted to state boarders.

 

[kb22stang]

Lol...we play in the SEV, don't have a competitive amount of NIL money, no in state recruiting base and our athletics budget is than 90% of the conference.

Yeah, super attractive job for hot coaches.

 

[PensacolaBlue]

Lol...we play in the SEV, don't have a competitive amount of NIL money, no in state recruiting base and our athletics budget is than 90% of the conference.

Yeah, super attractive job for hot coaches.

I never said we could go and get Saban. Our admin has done pretty much everything Stoops has asked so it’s not like we are Vandy. Michigan State went out and got a good coach. It’s not like they are a juggernaut. Funny how some fans think a coach that absolutely no one wants is the best coach we could possible get. So strange. As a wise man once said, “keep thinking with a loser mentality and a loser you will remain.” - PensacolaBlue

 

[TheDude73]

First off, this is not a negative post about Stoops. He’s our coach and I’m
behind him and the team. I hope we have a great offseason and win 8+ games next year.

Having said that, when Stoops decides to go, we WILL be able to get a great replacement. This idea that the program will fall by the wayside is looking at the past and letting it determine the future.

1. We are willing to pay top 10 pay. Good pay for assistant coaches. That in and of itself means we can get a serviceable replacement.
2. We play in the SEC and somebody can do what no other coach has done, make us consistently into a top SEC program similar to what is happening at Ole Miss.
3. Very good facilities. Maybe not the best but much better than when Stoops came. Kudos to CMS for getting that done.
4. Fantastic city and state to raise a family.
5. A great fan base that will fill a stadium and travel.

The only big negative I see would be NIL, and I’m hoping somehow we can figure that out. I think the fact that Kentucky doesn’t have much high school talent is a little overplayed because great recruiters aren’t restricted to state boarders.

You forget we're still stuck with Barnfart...

 

[PensacolaBlue]

You forget we're still stuck with Barnfart...

If we used a search committee last time why couldn’t we do it again? I trust guys like Couch and Coach Brooks.

 

[JHB4UK]

Sure. Ok. Keep telling yourself whatever you need.

Arkansas deciding to keep Pittman instead of trying to hire a new coach ought to be sobering for most in the UK fanbase. And make no mistake whatsoever - that is a much better job than UK. More history, more money, closer to more recruits, every measure. And those folks decided they didn't think they could do better.

Your points 1 - 5 didn't even brush against the most important aspect of CFB - recruiting. UK is in the worst recruiting location in the SEC. Talent acquisition rules CFB, and nowhere but Vandy is it more difficult in the SEC than Kentucky.

 

[PensacolaBlue]

Sure. Ok. Keep telling yourself whatever you need.

Arkansas deciding to keep Pittman instead of trying to hire a new coach ought to be sobering for most in the UK fanbase. And make no mistake whatsoever - that is a much better job than UK. More history, more money, closer to more recruits, every measure. And those folks decided they didn't think they could do better.

Your points 1 - 5 didn't even brush against the most important aspect of CFB - recruiting. UK is in the worst recruiting location in the SEC. Talent acquisition rules CFB, and nowhere but Vandy is it more difficult in the SEC than Kentucky.

We have planes, trains and automobiles now. It’s not like you can’t be effective recruiting out of state if you’ve established relationships. Look at how well we recruit Ohio. Just have to get some dynamic recruiters on staff. We have 1 on staff now. This mindset that the world is against us is just sad. The program is so much better than when Stoops came and give him and the admin credit for that. But at the same time, it’s not like we’re defunct of things to attract a new coach now. If you don’t think we couldn’t get a great coach for $9m/yr, you’re living in lala land.

 

[CatPatrick13]

Lol...we play in the SEV, don't have a competitive amount of NIL money, no in state recruiting base and our athletics budget is than 90% of the conference.

Yeah, super attractive job for hot coaches.

its all about the money buddy..... are you joking?

 

[CatPatrick13]

Sure. Ok. Keep telling yourself whatever you need.

Arkansas deciding to keep Pittman instead of trying to hire a new coach ought to be sobering for most in the UK fanbase. And make no mistake whatsoever - that is a much better job than UK. More history, more money, closer to more recruits, every measure. And those folks decided they didn't think they could do better.

Your points 1 - 5 didn't even brush against the most important aspect of CFB - recruiting. UK is in the worst recruiting location in the SEC. Talent acquisition rules CFB, and nowhere but Vandy is it more difficult in the SEC than Kentucky.

Sam Pittman barely makes the top 25.... stoops is at 9... More money except the head coaching position you mean?

 

[aikenite4uk]

First off, this is not a negative post about Stoops. He’s our coach and I’m
behind him and the team. I hope we have a great offseason and win 8+ games next year.

Having said that, when Stoops decides to go, we WILL be able to get a great replacement. This idea that the program will fall by the wayside is looking at the past and letting it determine the future.

1. We are willing to pay top 10 pay. Good pay for assistant coaches. That in and of itself means we can get a serviceable replacement.
2. We play in the SEC and somebody can do what no other coach has done, make us consistently into a top SEC program similar to what is happening at Ole Miss.
3. Very good facilities. Maybe not the best but much better than when Stoops came. Kudos to CMS for getting that done.
4. Fantastic city and state to raise a family.
5. A great fan base that will fill a stadium and travel.

The only big negative I see would be NIL, and I’m hoping somehow we can figure that out. I think the fact that Kentucky doesn’t have much high school talent is a little overplayed because great recruiters aren’t restricted to state boarders.

OK, you make some valid points about the attractiveness of the UK job and Lexington, etc. However, point #2 that "somebody" can do what no other coach has done...makes it sound seductively easy to do. Wrong. It's extraordinarily difficult to find that right individual to make that step change.
--We though that "somebody" was Bill Curry.
--UT thought that "somebody" was Derrick Dooley, then it was Butch Jones, then it was Jeremy Pruitt, etc
--Florida thought that somebody was Muschamp, then McElwain, Dan Mullen, and then Sunbelt Billy.
--MSU thought that somebody was Zach Arnett
--A&M was sure (to the tune of 76MM big ones) that somebody was Jimbo
So for every Lane Kiffin out there, there are probably a dozens of flame outs that AD's took chances on.
It is remarkably difficult to identify that diamond in the rough that can take a team with limited resources and tradition to the top echelon of a conference like the SEC. Let's not pretend the downside risk of losing Stoops is insignificant.

 

[PensacolaBlue]

OK, you make some valid points about the attractiveness of the UK job and Lexington, etc. However, point #2 that "somebody" can do what no other coach has done...makes it sound seductively easy to do. Wrong. It's extraordinarily difficult to find that right individual to make that step change.
--We though that "somebody" was Bill Curry.
--UT thought that "somebody" was Derrick Dooley, then it was Butch Jones, then it was Jeremy Pruitt, etc
--Florida thought that somebody was Muschamp, then McElwain, Dan Mullen, and then Sunbelt Billy.
--MSU thought that somebody was Zach Arnett
--A&M was sure (to the tune of 76MM big ones) that somebody was Jimbo
So for every Lane Kiffin out there, there are probably a dozens of flame outs that AD's took chances on.
It is remarkably difficult to identify that diamond in the rough that can take a team with limited resources and tradition to the top echelon of a conference like the SEC. Let's not pretend the downside risk of losing Stoops is insignificant.

I didn’t mean it to sound like it would be easy. I think the point is that somebody could come and make a name for themselves by doing something no coach has done before ala the ol ball coach going to SC in his late years. And they wouldn’t have to start with the cupboard bare like Stoops had to.

 

[JHB4UK]

Sam Pittman barely makes the top 25.... stoops is at 9... More money except the head coaching position you mean?

Yeah, richer more involved doners at Arkansas funding their athletic dept & NIL than at UK. We are in the basement of both.

 

[docholiday51]

It depends on the timing and circumstances when Stoops departs. The SEC will get tougher but if we are on an upswing(8 or 9 win season) Maybe Coen proves out and is still here or Sumrall is on the market.

 

[gojvc]

First off, this is not a negative post about Stoops. He’s our coach and I’m
behind him and the team. I hope we have a great offseason and win 8+ games next year.

Having said that, when Stoops decides to go, we WILL be able to get a great replacement. This idea that the program will fall by the wayside is looking at the past and letting it determine the future.

1. We are willing to pay top 10 pay. Good pay for assistant coaches. That in and of itself means we can get a serviceable replacement.
2. We play in the SEC and somebody can do what no other coach has done, make us consistently into a top SEC program similar to what is happening at Ole Miss.
3. Very good facilities. Maybe not the best but much better than when Stoops came. Kudos to CMS for getting that done.
4. Fantastic city and state to raise a family.
5. A great fan base that will fill a stadium and travel.

The only big negative I see would be NIL, and I’m hoping somehow we can figure that out. I think the fact that Kentucky doesn’t have much high school talent is a little overplayed because great recruiters aren’t restricted to state boarders.

Texas A&M has all that and they’re apparently settling for Mike Elko, a less accomplished coach than Mark Stoops.

 

[docholiday51]

Texas A&M has all that and they’re apparently settling for Mike Elko, a less accomplished coach than Mark Stoops.

Head scratcher for sure, Maybe Stoops did back out. Can't believe the A&M fanbase is any more pleased than they were with Stoops

 

[bballcat4]

Having said that, when Stoops decides to go, we WILL be able to get a great replacement. This idea that the program will fall by the wayside is looking at the past and letting it determine the future.

You’re either young or naive. The last nine coaches (before Stoops) left UK with a losing record. I’ve seen your negative posts about Stoops and fans settling for mediocrity, etc …

There’s a reason UK was considered a “graveyard for coaches” before Stoops arrived. Many of the attributes you listed have always been here, but NO ONE before Stoops won on a consistent level.

Be careful wanting to run off, or bad mouth the one coach that has made us consistent. Yes, this year was a huge disappointment. But, yes … before Stoops we would have thrown parades for winning 7 games, beating UL, and going to a bowl.

Stoops needs to get this team back to better football.

No …. Good coaches will not be lining up to come to Lexington when Stoops leaves. Look around much better SEC schools and tell me how new coaches have fared over last 5 years???

Coaches will want the $ an SEC school can afford, but the likelihood of them winning is like buying a lottery ticket!

 

[Random UK Fan]

You’re either young or naive. The last nine coaches (before Stoops) left UK with a losing record. I’ve seen your negative posts about Stoops and fans settling for mediocrity, etc …

There’s a reason UK was considered a “graveyard for coaches” before Stoops arrived. Many of the attributes you listed have always been here, but NO ONE before Stoops won on a consistent level.

Be careful wanting to run off, or bad mouth the one coach that has made us consistent. Yes, this year was a huge disappointment. But, yes … before Stoops we would have thrown parades for winning 7 games, beating UL, and going to a bowl.

Stoops needs to get this team back to better football.

No …. Good coaches will not be lining up to come to Lexington when Stoops leaves. Look around much better SEC schools and tell me how new coaches have fared over last 5 years???

Coaches will want the $ an SEC school can afford, but the likelihood of them winning is like buying a lottery ticket!

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, but I think Stoops has made UK a more-attractive destination, and shown that improvement can be made in not-great situations. Due to that I’m more comfortable with rolling the dice, because of what he’s established here. I don’t necessarily think Stoops’ ceiling is someone else’s.

The flip side of that too, unfortunately, is that if someone can come in and improve on what he’s built, they won’t be here long before they move upward elsewhere.

 

[bballcat4]

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, but I think Stoops has made UK a more-attractive destination, and shown that improvement can be made in not-great situations.

I agree with you 110%. He’s shown that it’s possible to consistently win at UK with the right strategy and execution.

UK’s realistic ceiling is a topic for its own post. (BTW- I think UK can periodically have a shot at 12 team CFP.)

My biggest point is that head coaching changes often turn into coaching carousel. This sets programs back for years. The SEC is littered with tradition rich, talent rich, and NIL rich programs that are cycling through head coaches in search of the “perfect” fit. Each coaching change starts the cycle over again. (UT was paying 3 different head coaches last year!) Beamer and Napier didn’t even make bowl games this year.

Stoops tenure is part of the reason for our stability. Overpaying a winning coach at UK is SMART. Do you think that $9 mil helped Stoops make a decision last night??? Don’t buy the narrative that Stoops didn’t have influence on whether he took/was offered the job. I’m convinced that if he aggressively pursued the job that the AD would have stood by him. The AD is going to face same battle with Duke’s coach. I guarantee you the AD would have preferred someone who already knows the SEC.

 

[Cawood86]

You forget we're still stuck with Barnfart...

There is the real problem. Gomer Pyle is just fine with Stoops. Get me enough wins for a Bowl Mark.

 

[bballcat4]

There is the real problem. Gomer Pyle is just fine with Stoops. Get me enough wins for a Bowl Mark.

Do you think UK is better with or without Stoops?

If you think Stoops has been good for UK then you gotta give credit to Gomer for the contract. I promise you Stoops would already be gone without it!

 

[Cawood86]

Do you think UK is better with or without Stoops?

If you think Stoops has been good for UK then you gotta give credit to Gomer for the contract. I promise you Stoops would already be gone without it!

I believe they could be as good or better. Brooks proved it could be done witj vety little money invested. Stoops took it another level with the commitment given by the school. I believe another coach could build on what Stoops has done.

 

[bballcat4]

I believe they could be as good or better. Brooks proved it could be done witj vety little money invested. Stoops took it another level with the commitment given by the school. I believe another coach could build on what Stoops has done.

Brooks never won more than 8 wins and we were throwing parties when he won 7 games. I agree with you 100% that the school is investing way more $ in football today than in Brooks' tenure.

Like Barnhart or not, I give him credit for Stoops' contract. The SEC television revenue is crazy. I'd rather see part of it be used to keep a good coach. Duke's HC salary was $3.5 million this year. That makes it easy to leave for TxAm. We both agree this is where SEC will poach coaches from other conferences outside the B10. Yet, several SEC schools are proving that bringing in new coaches are like rolling dice.

 

[Cawood86]

Brooks never won more than 8 wins and we were throwing parties when he won 7 games. I agree with you 100% that the school is investing way more $ in football today than in Brooks' tenure.

Like Barnhart or not, I give him credit for Stoops' contract. The SEC television revenue is crazy. I'd rather see part of it be used to keep a good coach. Duke's HC salary was $3.5 million this year. That makes it easy to leave for TxAm. We both agree this is where SEC will poach coaches from other conferences outside the B10. Yet, several SEC schools are proving that bringing in new coaches are like rolling dice.

Stoops contract is ridiculous and way too high.

 

[Jont0805]

I think this is a spot on. As long as stoops stays here as long as he wants to and keeps winning 7-10 games a year and retires with the bowl streak still in tact then Kentucky would be a great spot for a new coach.


There are always going to be challenges here, but there is absolutely no doubt that the program is in the best position it ever has been and Stoops is the reason for that.

I don’t know how anyone could question that. I understand the argument that some believe he has reached his ceiling here, but he has also raised the floor to a level that used to be the program’s ceiling.

 

[bballcat4]

Stoops contract is ridiculous and way too high.

Most wins in the SEC since 2017
1. Alabama - 86
2. Georgia - 85
3. LSU - 64
4. Kentucky - 54
5. Texas A&M - 53
6. Florida - 50
7. Auburn - 50
8. Ole Miss - 48
9. Missouri - 48
10. Miss St - 48
11. Tennessee - 46
12. USC - 42
13. Arkansas - 31
14. Vandy - 23

Do you think he’s overpaid for these results?

Even more important, do you think UK keeps a winning coach without overpaying a coach?

I’d rather be in UK’s position and using $ to retain a coach than in Duke’s position. Let’s see what happens to Duke next year. Granted, ACC revenue is significantly lower than SEC.

 

[kb22stang]

its all about the money buddy..... are you joking?

Are you Stoopid? If it was all about the money A&M wouldn't be stuck hiring a guy with 2 years experience and only one of those years better than the year Stoops just had her.

 

[BBBLazing]

There are plenty of reasons coaches haven't won championships at Kentucky. I don't think any proven top notch head coach will come here again after Bill Curry. Coming off being named National Coach of the Year he came here and couldn't win. Recruiting is the biggest problem our coaches have. We have not historically competed in the SEC, which makes kids wanting to play in the SEC look to other schools. A new coach, unless a proven winner at a top school, would not be paid what we are paying Stoops. Nothing would set our program back more than to give an unproven coach a big contract, with a big buyout. Then we end up 3-4 years later paying two coaches when the new coach doesn't exceed what everyone wants and is fired. My guess is Stoops coaches 3-4 years here and retires. At that point, we will have our hands full trying to find someone worth hiring coming here.

 

[canebreak]

Sure. Ok. Keep telling yourself whatever you need.

Arkansas deciding to keep Pittman instead of trying to hire a new coach ought to be sobering for most in the UK fanbase. And make no mistake whatsoever - that is a much better job than UK. More history, more money, closer to more recruits, every measure. And those folks decided they didn't think they could do better.

Your points 1 - 5 didn't even brush against the most important aspect of CFB - recruiting. UK is in the worst recruiting location in the SEC. Talent acquisition rules CFB, and nowhere but Vandy is it more difficult in the SEC than Kentucky.

I don’t disagree with much of what you say but Arkansas does not have more money. That is fact

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

I don’t disagree with much of what you say but Arkansas does not have more money. That is fact

and despite 1 NC, it’s not a better gig. Plus we own the head to head series.

 

[TankedCat]

didn't want to start a new thread so I am putting this here

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

OK, you make some valid points about the attractiveness of the UK job and Lexington, etc. However, point #2 that "somebody" can do what no other coach has done...makes it sound seductively easy to do. Wrong. It's extraordinarily difficult to find that right individual to make that step change.
--We though that "somebody" was Bill Curry.
--UT thought that "somebody" was Derrick Dooley, then it was Butch Jones, then it was Jeremy Pruitt, etc
--Florida thought that somebody was Muschamp, then McElwain, Dan Mullen, and then Sunbelt Billy.
--MSU thought that somebody was Zach Arnett
--A&M was sure (to the tune of 76MM big ones) that somebody was Jimbo
So for every Lane Kiffin out there, there are probably a dozens of flame outs that AD's took chances on.
It is remarkably difficult to identify that diamond in the rough that can take a team with limited resources and tradition to the top echelon of a conference like the SEC. Let's not pretend the downside risk of losing Stoops is insignificant.

ATM was willing to give Jimbo 100m because they thought he was the guy, the 76m was because they learned he wasn't.

I am sure UK can and will find another coach if CMS decides to leave, the question is how many will they go through before it finds the right coach. Bama didn't get it right first time, UT and UF have both gone through successful head coaches and successful coordinators. I understand wanting more, just might not get it right the first time. UK can certainly pay extremely competitive salary, but CMS didn't make that his first year, and he is the 2nd longest tenured coach in SEC. If those first couple years, when the talent level was mid pack Ohio Valley his record looks much better.

 

[dmacforheisman]

and despite 1 NC, it’s not a better gig. Plus we own the head to head series.

10 years ago I probably would have said otherwise but in 2023 that’s probably true

 

[Caveman Catfan]

The next UK coach will follow the most celebrated coach in UK football history. If that coach started next season, he would also be facing, perhaps, the most difficult schedule in recent years.
Kentucky will face Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina and Vanderbilt at Kroger Field and meet Florida, Ole Miss, Tennessee and Texas on the road in 2024. Next year’s coaches best have some kahunas.

 

[JHB4UK]

The next UK coach will follow the most celebrated coach in UK football history. If that coach started next season, he would also be facing, perhaps, the most difficult schedule in recent years.
Kentucky will face Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina and Vanderbilt at Kroger Field and meet Florida, Ole Miss, Tennessee and Texas on the road in 2024. Next year’s coaches best have some kahunas.

"If" we had a new coach then nobody is gonna be calling for his head if he goes 4-8 or 3-9, so everything you said is irrelevant. Why, because a new coach means new systems, new roster, zero expectations. because hello, everything is rebuilding nothing carries over from the previous coaches building efforts.

 

[vhcat70]

Most wins in the SEC since 2017
1. Alabama - 86
2. Georgia - 85
3. LSU - 64
4. Kentucky - 54
5. Texas A&M - 53
6. Florida - 50
7. Auburn - 50
8. Ole Miss - 48
9. Missouri - 48
10. Miss St - 48
11. Tennessee - 46
12. USC - 42
13. Arkansas - 31
14. Vandy - 23

Do you think he’s overpaid for these results?

Even more important, do you think UK keeps a winning coach without overpaying a coach?

I’d rather be in UK’s position and using $ to retain a coach than in Duke’s position. Let’s see what happens to Duke next year. Granted, ACC revenue is significantly lower than SEC.

2018-2023, "since 2017", UK has won 24 games ""in" the SEC", with "in" meaning SEC games.

 

[Jont0805]

"If" we had a new coach then nobody is gonna be calling for his head if he goes 4-8 or 3-9, so everything you said is irrelevant. Why, because a new coach means new systems, new roster, zero expectations. because hello, everything is rebuilding nothing carries over from the previous coaches building efforts.

Some fans want stoops gone who has been to 8 consecutive bowl games and had two of the best seasons in school history.

A coach who wins 3 games in year one with the program coming off their best stretch in history would be an absolute disaster.

If you do end up hiring a new coach you assume they are able to get some guys to stay, keep some recruits and bring a few recruits with them.

Now if your program is coming off a 2-10 season and doesn’t have but a handful of players that would be on an SEC roster like when stoops took over Kentucky then it’s a different story. If you take a stable program and win 3-4 games in year one your seat will be hot no matter where you are.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

10 years ago I probably would have said otherwise but in 2023 that’s probably true

Legendary coach Frank Broyles nailed it back in the 1960s. He said UK should look to Ohio for a fertile recruiting ground. Amazing it’s taken so long.

He was a wise coach. They don’t make them like that anymore.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

"If" we had a new coach then nobody is gonna be calling for his head if he goes 4-8 or 3-9, so everything you said is irrelevant. Why, because a new coach means new systems, new roster, zero expectations. because hello, everything is rebuilding nothing carries over from the previous coaches building efforts.

Irrelevant? Completely disagree.

 

[truebluewildcat]

I think now that UK is stable thanks to Brooks and CMS, has spent and continues to spend the money on football from staff to essentially football only facilities it is a much more attractive job.

I mean just look at CMS taking the gig. DC at top tier P5 program with a big football family/legacy last name (there's only a few of them...Harbaugh, manning, Stoops...) who was rising up the ranks and would have been on a lot of other radars and gotten better job offers had he hung around FSU another season or two.

We got him coming off of Brooks/Joker era.

Program is much more stable; money and resources are being spent. Football overall is much more important and popular than it was. We have talent in the NFL representing, including a starting QB.

I'm not going to go all Looney Tune aggie and say we can get a top 5-10 hottest coach in football...but I think when the day comes whether tomorrow or a few years, this program will get some looks from a caliber and class of coach that it never has before.