Twins, selfish or NOT (decluttering)

[goingpostal72]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not


well if we didn't have the twins we would have at least 3 losses to date, so my question is would you rather be 12-3 at best with probably 6 more losses in regular season or would you rather be 15-0?

 

[teach them linear]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

better question concerns op status as a troll or just another hating bbn fan? Stop bashing our players! at least till we lose. smdh

 

[manu1433]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

I'm not a huge fan of the twins (more so Andrew), but that's simply because I don't think they are overly good.

However, how could anybody call them selfish? They definitely do not have a selfish play style what so ever.

 

[miracle7s]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by manu1433:
I'm not a huge fan of the twins (more so Andrew), but that's simply because I don't think they are overly good.

However, how could anybody call them selfish? They definitely do not have a selfish play style what so ever.

I agree with you Manu they aren't very good. Again agree with it being more Andrew than Aaron. In a world of non-Calipari one and done style talents the twins would be looked at as 4 year players who are nice prospects maybe at the end of their 4 years. Not their fault that they were so severely over rated coming out of high school, those big bully types are usually the most apt candidates for being so miss rated though. Bigger, stronger, faster, than everyone you play an then boom everyone is equal to you and you can't do what you used to be able to get away with. My question for you is what would you call their offensive style if not selfish? Do you disagree they look to get their's first?

This post was edited on 1/11 4:41 PM by miracle7s

 

[mdlUK.1]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by miracle7s:

Originally posted by manu1433:
I'm not a huge fan of the twins (more so Andrew), but that's simply because I don't think they are overly good.

However, how could anybody call them selfish? They definitely do not have a selfish play style what so ever.

I agree with you Manu they aren't very good. Again agree with it being more Andrew than Aaron. In a world of non-Calipari one and done style talents the twins would be looked at as 4 year players who are nice prospects maybe at the end of their 4 years. Not their fault that they were so severely over rated coming out of high school, those big bully types are usually the most apt candidates for being so miss rated though. Bigger, stronger, faster, than everyone you play an then boom everyone is equal to you and you can't do what you used to be able to get away with. My question for you is what would you call their offensive style if not selfish? Do you disagree they look to get their's first?

This post was edited on 1/11 4:41 PM by miracle7s

Good Lord. Are you two serious? With fans(??) like you, who needs ul or iu trolls.

 

[jerrycat75]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not


Anyone , who dosn't think the twins play for themselves instead of the team . Well , you don't know ......

 

[USAFSSCAT]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by JonathanW:
At face value, 30 of 64 FGA taken by them, sure it looks like they are (selfish). But could it be (I think so) that when they see the team struggling they take it upon themselves to try and win the game. Maybe too much of that competitive spirit that we were told they have 18+ months ago. Booker was the only guy able to make shots (but only when open) before the 2nd OT.

Here's the number of shots the top nine players are taken
1. AAron - 11.2
2. Booker - 7.2
3. Willie - 6.7
4. Andrew - 6.4
5. Lyles - 6.1
6. Towns - 5.8
7. Johnson - 4.5
8. Ulis - 4.3
9. Lee - 2.1

 

[MirageSmack]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

I would say yes. Like most twins, they like to throw the ball to each other when there are other (often better) options. And 30 shots was just too much. Like Jones of UofL, the lowest % shooters don't need to be taking the highest % of shots. Get the ball to the shooters.

 

[doneitall]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by runt#69:

Amen brother. Bilas said the clutter would occur and it certainly has. I wonder why some think they understand anything related to basketball.

 

[manu1433]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by miracle7s:

Originally posted by manu1433:
I'm not a huge fan of the twins (more so Andrew), but that's simply because I don't think they are overly good.

However, how could anybody call them selfish? They definitely do not have a selfish play style what so ever.

I agree with you Manu they aren't very good. Again agree with it being more Andrew than Aaron. In a world of non-Calipari one and done style talents the twins would be looked at as 4 year players who are nice prospects maybe at the end of their 4 years. Not their fault that they were so severely over rated coming out of high school, those big bully types are usually the most apt candidates for being so miss rated though. Bigger, stronger, faster, than everyone you play an then boom everyone is equal to you and you can't do what you used to be able to get away with. My question for you is what would you call their offensive style if not selfish? Do you disagree they look to get their's first?

This post was edited on 1/11 4:41 PM by miracle7s

Both of them will hit the open man when it is there.

Aaron is a volume scorer at this point. Not all volume scorers = selfish.

Will he take a bad shot here and there? Sure. However, most of Aaron's bricks are from when he is wide open.

Andrew will occasionally force an ill-advised shot around the rim from time to time. However, Andrew definitely will facilitate when the play is there. Seems like Andrew really doesn't try to force much offensively unless the clock is winding down or when he is on the break.

Very different from selfish.

 

[manu1433]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by mdlUK.1:

Good Lord. Are you two serious? With fans(??) like you, who needs ul or iu trolls.

Actually, what you just did is trolling. Your post is clearly flaming two people who simply posted an honest opinion. If you don't agree, then that's cool.

Get over it.

 

[kat57]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by doneitall:

Originally posted by runt#69:

Amen brother. Bilas said the clutter would occur and it certainly has. I wonder why some think they understand anything related to basketball.

^^^This^^^
We won there are some people that want to gripe about anything. Let it go and get over your feelings. Maybe they were trying to do so much yesterday was because they were playing in Texas in front of family and friends. Let's give them a pass. I think I'll let the coach handle the team.

 

[crawfords corner]

UNNECESSARY THREAD!!!! This isn't a debate that serves a purpose

Good intentions or not. Unnecessary.

 

[TankedCat]

Re: UNNECESSARY THREAD!!!! This isn't a debate that serves a purpose

is clutter another way of saying shut up and don't worry about it?

if anyone really thinks UK fans won't talk at length about backcourt players combining for 6-30 shooting, they are idiots.

Cal can come up with buzzwords all day long and twice on Sunday to cover it - but there is no covering 6-30 shooting to UK fans.

 

[miracle7s]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by manu1433:

Both of them will hit the open man when it is there.

Aaron is a volume scorer at this point. Not all volume scorers = selfish.

Will he take a bad shot here and there? Sure. However, most of Aaron's bricks are from when he is wide open.

Andrew will occasionally force an ill-advised shot around the rim from time to time. However, Andrew definitely will facilitate when the play is there. Seems like Andrew really doesn't try to force much offensively unless the clock is winding down or when he is on the break.

Very different from selfish.

appreciate a lucid, basketball driven response. For the most part I agree with you again. I think more what makes me think about the selfishness is Andrew's demeanor, I get that your playing bad but honestly it sometimes looks like he's on the bench wishing the team didn't do good cause he's not in there doing it. Aaron isn't like that really, or doesn't appear to be. Main thing I wish they would get a hold on basketball wise is the going 1-3 or 4 on fastbreak and not dropping it off to the trailer for the easy bucket.

 

[UKnCincy]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by mdlUK.1:
And it could also be they HAD to take shots because the shot clock was under 10 seconds.

For those who are interested, prior to the A&M game, 7% of UK's FGAs came with less than 5 on the shot clock. Against A&M, 17% of our attempts came with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock. Big difference. This team has had issues with physical play all year. If you press physically, Andrew will turn it over. If you play physically underneath, our bigs have a tendency to wilt.
Yesterday A&M was able to push our bigs out a lot when they didn't have the ball. If you give the ball to Willie or Towns when they're not on the block, it's a turnover waiting to happen. Either Willie tries to spin towards the middle of the lane and loses it dribbling, or Towns is far enough from the basket that a guard can help on a dig and knock it away. When the bigs don't want to fight hard for position, the guards are going to end up taking a greater proportion of the shots. It's just the nature of the beast.

A&M also held us well below our offensive rebounding percentage. We usually grab about 50% of our misses, so that's 9 fewer rebounds. Most of those end up as FGA from one of the front court players, so not having those skews the FGAs towards the guards even more. Part of that is because A&M is the best defensive rebounded team we've faced this year.

 

[CaliforniaCatFan58]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not


No. They may not be shooting well, but that will pass. If either of them are open...I say let it fly. By seasons end for every one they have missed...one will go in. JMHO, but our big guys need to pick it up a bit (We miss Alex more than many think). Screen inside to open driving lanes for the guards and move without the ball to receive entry passes. We were outrebounded by TA&M? What the...? Our guards will be fine. Yes, the twins will take the shots that count. I think they saved our bacon several times last year and this year has not exactly been a failure. Enjoy it all. I wonder what the Duke fans are saying about their guards today? They are selfish? Why didn't Okafor (Sp) get more touches? We were in the same situation last year...everyone including me was finding reasons to complain...but we were not 15-0.

 

[sonnyg333]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

"I can't think of too many shots they took yesterday that were selfish."

Somewhere around that combined 6 of 30 shooting by the twins it was very selfish
and Aaron never looked inside once for a shot or a team mate..

 

[manu1433]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by UKnCincy:

Originally posted by mdlUK.1:
And it could also be they HAD to take shots because the shot clock was under 10 seconds.

For those who are interested, prior to the A&M game, 7% of UK's FGAs came with less than 5 on the shot clock. Against A&M, 17% of our attempts came with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock. Big difference.

with all due respect, that isn't a big difference

You are talking about 11 (17%) shots vs 5 (7%) on our 64 FG attempts yesterday.

For this to be a big difference within the context of this discussion, you'd have to assume that almost everyone of those shots were attempted by Andrew and Aaron.

I do not know the exact numbers, but I strongly doubt that is the case.

 

[JonathanW]

Re: UNNECESSARY THREAD!!!! This isn't a debate that serves a purpose

Originally posted by crawfords corner:
Good intentions or not. Unnecessary.

Clearly some of you are missing the point of the thread. It is NOT to say the Twins are selfish. That has been written in numerous other threads. But rather the point is that instead of being selfish, they are so competitive that when the team struggles they try to put the team on their shoulders and win the game. So the point is to remove "clutter", not add to it.

 

[UKnCincy]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by manu1433:
with all due respect, that isn't a big difference

You are talking about 11 (17%) shots vs 5 (7%) on our 64 FG attempts yesterday.

For this to be a big difference within the context of this discussion, you'd have to assume that almost everyone of those shots were attempted by Andrew and Aaron.

I do not know the exact numbers, but I strongly doubt that is the case.

Actually, it is a big difference and a meaningful indicator. As far as who was attempting those, the twins took 8 of the 11 (73%). For the other games this year, the twins only would take about 32% of late shot clock attempts. So 4.5 of the extra 6 went to the twins and we didn't convert any of those attempts. Makes a big dent in your efficiency number.

You're missing the broader point though. This is an indicator that A&M was forcefully taking away interior shots by playing the bigs physically and pushing them away from the basket. Teams that can do that against us will do several things. Force most of our turnovers to come from the front court, limit our offensive rebounds, and force the guards to take most of the shots. Well that's basically what happened and is how teams should defend us until the bigs get more aggressive. Bully the interior, try to deny the ball getting to Booker and funnel the attempts to the Twins.

 

[manu1433]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by UKnCincy:

Originally posted by manu1433:
with all due respect, that isn't a big difference

You are talking about 11 (17%) shots vs 5 (7%) on our 64 FG attempts yesterday.

For this to be a big difference within the context of this discussion, you'd have to assume that almost everyone of those shots were attempted by Andrew and Aaron.

I do not know the exact numbers, but I strongly doubt that is the case.

Actually, it is a big difference and a meaningful indicator. As far as who was attempting those, the twins took 8 of the 11 (73%). For the other games this year, the twins only would take about 32% of late shot clock attempts. So 4.5 of the extra 6 went to the twins and we didn't convert any of those attempts. Makes a big dent in your efficiency number.

You're missing the broader point though. This is an indicator that A&M was forcefully taking away interior shots by playing the bigs physically and pushing them away from the basket. Teams that can do that against us will do several things. Force most of our turnovers to come from the front court, limit our offensive rebounds, and force the guards to take most of the shots. Well that's basically what happened and is how teams should defend us until the bigs get more aggressive. Bully the interior, try to deny the ball getting to Booker and funnel the attempts to the Twins.

4.5 shots spread over two players isn't really a big deal lol

 

[Rolf Russman]

Where was this thread when we really needed it?

Like after the Sweet Sixteen game against Louisville? And the Michigan game? And the Wisconsin game? Man, the Harrisons really showed how selfish they are in those games!!!

 

[irishcat1965]

Lol. It's incredible the amount of topics that are generated about the twins. Most of them stupid and written by someone uninformed. Once again, the bottom line is you can write this drivel 50 times a day until the end of the season and it doesn't make any difference. The twins will start and get plenty of minutes. Deservedly so. So I suggest you get over it.

 

[chattanoogawildcat]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by Catscratch81:
MD, not going to defend my opinion to you. We won BECAUSE we got the ball inside during the OT not by throwing up contested three point shots.

i recall ulis throwing up and hitting a huge game winning three

 

[UKnCincy]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by manu1433:

4.5 shots spread over two players isn't really a big deal lol

Again, if you think this is simply about 4.5 shots going to two players, you've completely missed the point.

 

[catfaninsc]

Originally posted by Rolf Russman:
Where was this thread when we really needed it?

Like after the Sweet Sixteen game against Louisville? And the Michigan game? And the Wisconsin game? Man, the Harrisons really showed how selfish they are in those games!!!

And there you have it.

 

[manu1433]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by UKnCincy:

Originally posted by manu1433:

4.5 shots spread over two players isn't really a big deal lol

Again, if you think this is simply about 4.5 shots going to two players, you've completely missed the point.

I'm not missing any point. The original poster who brought it up was acting like shooting late in the shot clock is why they were shooting bad. Aaron was bricking mostly open shots.

Even without those 4.5 shots...they would have shot like 6-25

Which, is why I said, that those shots really didn't matter within this discussion.

This post was edited on 1/11 9:32 PM by manu1433

 

[dave5164]

I agree with the post that we forgot about during all tourney games last year and how many games Harrison hits the big shot or had a great game that actually last year got us to the Final Four and the Champiosnhip Game. The Ole Miss game if we didn't have the Harrison Twins which they scored 38 points and 7/12 from 3's for 58% we would have lost that game. Yesterday, they were 6/30 for 20% and was off shooting yesterday but that happens to all good players that have one great night and then an off night. They will be fine as the year progresses and we will see how valuable they are to our team as head into March Madness.

 

[UKnCincy]

Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by manu1433:

I'm not missing any point. The original poster who brought it up was acting like shooting late in the shot clock is why they were shooting bad. Aaron was bricking mostly open shots.

Even without those 4.5 shots...they would have shot like 6-25

Which, is why I said, that those shots really didn't matter within this discussion.

This post was edited on 1/11 9:32 PM by manu1433

Well you missed his point too. They weren't discussing accuracy; they were discussing why they had so many attempts. The number of makes versus misses doesn't figure into that.

The point he was making was that maybe the reason they had so many attempts is not because they were selfish, but because the defense dictated it. I simply gave the number that supports what he was driving at, and the 4.5 needs to viewed in the that context. Regardless, 4.5 shots is a meaningful difference. The difference between a good shooting percentage for a team and a bad one in a given game is generally only 4-5 shots anyway. More importantly, late shot clock misses almost invariably end in defensive rebounds, meaning they don't represent just shot attempts. They also represent bad possessions.

 

[Cantwaitfor8]

I love the posts on here about "clutter" as if a message board discussion is the clutter cal was referring to.... As for selfish? Eh I'm not sure about that Booker is hot right now and I would like to see more feeding the guy that has it going. If anyone was going to take a ton of shots it should've been Booker. More troubling than the twins play is the lack of offense against a zone. A grade school level 2-3 zone (no special matchup etc etc) seems to grind our offense to a stop and actually has since cal got here. There nearly no attempt to get the ball to the high post either via drive or pass (towns would be perfect there) and break the zone from the inside out. We pass around the perimeter and jack a bad shot... West Virginia anyone??? I think the twins will be fine, I do think to a certain degree both are wings and Andrew is more of a point forward but that's not a knock on him. We need more from everyone so singling them out is unfair IMO.

 

[WCBcats]

Yes, we all appreciate that aaron got hot at the right time last year. But if you think he is above being benched for going 4 for 20 then idk what to tell you. He was an average player last year and an average player this year. And yes his pull up that landed in trey lyles hands was an extremely selfish shot.