Transfer Ratings Based on 2023-24 Metrics - Rebuttal to Warf2012

[japierce]

“Best team in the country”, regardless who you get seems ambitious, to be fair.

 

[Eight_Banners]

“Best team in the country”, regardless who you get seems ambitious, to be fair.

I don't think so:

With Brea, Toppin, Lanier, and Carr, we'd have 4 of the top 11 offensive players in the portal.

With Williams, Oweh, Butler, Garrison, and Toppin we'd have 5 of the top 30 defensive players in the portal.

With Williams, Carr, Toppin, and Lanier, we'd have 4 of the top 37 in PER from the portal.

If we don't get Toppin and Lanier those are moot points. If you add both of them, I stand by my comment. That's not saying they would be the clear-cut, without a doubt, unbeatable team sitting at #1. However, that roster would easily compete with the top teams, and I believe, would stay in the top 5-7 all year.

 

[Bluegrassking]

Excellent analysis.

I like the fact that Pope recruited these guys with a specific plan in mind. He's bringing in players who fit his system not just players based on AAU stats.

We will be good both offensively and defensively.

I'm excited to see this develop into a super good team!

We didn't just hire Sal Capellini (that looks a lot like John Calipari but with a goatee) with his trusty portal rankings sheet to just take the top ranked guys on it and roll out the balls?

 

[Untouchables22]

He definitely went defense heavy. Now, part of that, I think, is that by the time he got here most of the cupboard was bear for Centers. Right now, only Osobor is left (I suppose it's arguable that he's a PF, but 247 has him as a C). I think he swept up Garrison because Garrison was the best available that was a certainty.

If I'm Mark Pope, my only thought now is a distributor and/or scorer. A "go get me a bucket" kind of guy. At the end of the day I think we end up with either Jaylen Wells or Jaxson Robinson or both. Either of those guys could be that guy.

Analytically the thing about the roster/offense that I’m struggling to understand is we all know that outside of free throws the most efficient shots are three’s and layups. But I don’t see how we are going to consistently generate quality layups with the current roster and the offensive scheme. Butler and Oweh are average drivers and Carr has a couple of post moves. I’m not saying we won’t be able to….but I’m struggling to understand the vision.

 

[DreadLox]

Serious question - is 7 of the top 125 good, bad, something we should be excited about, or be disappointed in?

I know we had to rebuild an entire roster but it doesn’t seem like a top 25 type team to me.

125 players spread among hundreds of schools and 1 school got 7 of them.

 

[DreadLox]

Analytically the thing about the roster/offense that I’m struggling to understand is we all know that outside of free throws the most efficient shots are three’s and layups. But I don’t see how we are going to consistently generate quality layups with the current roster and the offensive scheme. Butler and Oweh are average drivers and Carr has a couple of post moves. I’m not saying we won’t be able to….but I’m struggling to understand the vision.

The offense passes players open. BYU players were middling drivers. They still took half their shots at the rim.

RELAX

 

[Girthang]

I believe there is too much concern here over a player’s portal ranking. The numbers are flawed because teams do not play the same competition. For instance, DJ Wagner would have better numbers if he had played for a school in the Southern Conference.

Not necessarily. You still have to make shots. Still have to defend. No matter what conference you are in. DJ was also on a team with 4 and 5 star talent, so his numbers would be inflated compared to players that did not play on such talented teams.

Theres no guarantee of anything either way, but all you can compare is what's available.

The key to success in the portal will be coaches that know how to select the right guys and how to play them together !

Agreed. Plus development and in game adjustments.

 

[Girthang]

Analytically the thing about the roster/offense that I’m struggling to understand is we all know that outside of free throws the most efficient shots are three’s and layups. But I don’t see how we are going to consistently generate quality layups with the current roster and the offensive scheme. Butler and Oweh are average drivers and Carr has a couple of post moves. I’m not saying we won’t be able to….but I’m struggling to understand the vision.

Rebounding, movement, and running plays.

I doubt we will just be running stagnant sets waiting for a lane to open to drive and dish.

 

[CatsFan4Evr.]

So did Barf ever respond to this post?

 

[true blue1]

This is a counterargument to Warf2012's argument that we missed on too many good players. @1war posted the Rivals transfer rankings that I think are better than the 247 sports rankings in the former post. I have done the work to put together the top 125 players in the 247sports.com based on Player Efficiency Ratings (PER), Offensive Rating per 100 possessions (ORtg), Defensive Ratings per 100 possessions (DRtg), and Overall Efficiency Rating (OERtg). OERtg is my own stat, which I arrive at by subtracting DRtg from ORtg which shows the difference between a player's excellence on offense and defense, demonstrating their overall effectiveness on both ends of the floor.

Without further ado:

Top 125 based on 2023-24 PER:

UNCOMMITTED

247 Rank---Last Name---First Name---Position---PER Rank

46 Goldin Vladislav C 31.3
86 Williams Amari C 28.5 (#2)
83 Kidd Lynn C 27.6
27 Toppin JT PF 27.4
5 Omier Norchad F 26.8
34 Haggerty PJ SG 26.5
2 Ballo Oumar C 26.4
52 White Trazarien PF 26.2
77 Thomas Saint SF 26.1
7 Osobor Great C 25.5
60 Avila Robbie C 25.1
87 Fidler Frankie SF 25.1
51 Gillespie Ja'Kobi PG 24.7
10 Lanier Chaz G 24.6
119 Dubar Darlinstone PF 24.4
108 Dell'Orso Anthony SG 24.3
6 DeVries Tucker SF 24.1
53 Ivisic Zvonomir PF 23.9
96 Dia Malik SF 23.6
1 Richmond Kadary G 23.5
19 Aidoo Jonas C 23
112 Alexis Sam C 22.8
3 Davis Johnell G 22.7
57 Stewart Sean PF 22.5
28 Wolf Danny C 22.3
123 Owusu-Anane Nana PF 22.3
12 Smith Deivon G 22.1
68 Brown Maliq PF 22
97 Sears Jordan PG 22
117 Hall Keyshawn PF 22
109 Humrichous Ben SF 21.8
13 Omoruyi Clifford C 21.7
30 Ajayi Michael SF 21.1
50 Battle Khalif SG 21.1
63 Davis Dre SF 21.1
101 Blackmon Jalen G 21.1
25 Mayo Zeke SG 20.8
69 Carr Andrew SF 20.8 (#38)
36 Tyson Cade SF 20.7
115 Lubin Ven-Allen F 20.7
107 Chinyelu Rueben C 20.4
54 Huntley-Hatfield Brandon C 20.3
61 Payne Pharrel C 20.3
76 Townsend Trey SF 20.3
99 Bilodeau Tyler PF 20.3
79 Edwards Terrence SG 20.2
29 Mack Malik PG 20.1
58 Porter Jevon PF 20.1
16 Mitchell Mark PF 20
4 Storr AJ SF 19.7
88 Conwell Ryan SG 19.7
23 Hawkins Coleman PF 19.4
55 Perkins Tony PG 19.3
100 Hill Marcus G 19.3
114 Cardet Wesley SG 19.3
67 Stojakovic Andrej SF 19.2
43 Mark Tramon SF 19.1
81 Youngblood Chris SG 19.1
14 Wells Jaylen F 18.6
21 Mitchell Dillon PF 18.6
49 Okpara Felix C 18.6
59 Dailey, Jr. Eric PF 18.6
124 Evans Ken SG 18.4
11 Roach Jeremy G 18.3
66 Pope Jordan G 18.3
89 Brea Koby G 18.3 (#66)
45 Pedulla Sean PG 18.1
121 Scott Aaron SF 18
84 Johnson Meechie SG 17.9
9 Small Javon G 17.8
22 Garrison Brandon C 17.8 (#71)
102 Davis DJ SG 17.8
106 Amos Xavier PF 17.8
31 Thiero Adou SF 17.7
72 Hoggard AJ G 17.7
122 Ausar Ezra PF 17.7
42 Bradshaw Aaron PF 17.6
95 Alexander Posh G 17.6
33 Oweh Otega SF 17.5 (#79)
118 Mallette Houston SG 17.2
73 Ledlum Chris SF 17.1
26 Rice Myles G 17
75 Pegues JP PG 16.9
90 Angel Brandon SF 16.9
56 McDaniel Dug PG 16.8
62 Gayle, Jr. Roddy G 16.4
82 Lawrence Tyrin G 16.4
35 Robinson Jaxson SF 16.3
92 Donaldson Tre G 16.1
32 Claude Desmond SG 15.9
71 Hawkins Elijah 15.9
98 Walters Sam SF 15.9
103 Hepburn Chucky G 15.9
39 Griffen Rylan 15.5
93 Gillis Mason SF 15.5
8 Johnson Kobe SF 15.2
78 Reed, Jr. Tarris C 15.2
120 Peavy Micah SF 15.2
18 Poplar Wooga SF 15.1
40 Brazile Trevon PF 15.1
44 McCollum Javian PG 15.1
70 Bamba TJ G 14.6
85 Mason Mekhi SG 14.5
80 Biliew Omaha PF 14.4
47 Butler, Jr. Lamont PG 14.3 (#105)
65 Isaacs Pop G 13.9
15 Christie Cameron SG 13.7
20 Hunter Tyrese G 13.6
24 Mahaney Aidan G 13.6
38 Boswell Kylan PG 13.6
64 Kelly Miles SG 13.3
94 Booth Carey PF 12.9
37 Wagner DJ PG 12.7
91 Clark Skyy PG 12.5
125 Kriisa Kerr G 12.1 (#115)
113 Kugel Riley PG 11.6
17 Carlyle Kanaan G 11.5
48 Uzan Milos PG 11.5
104 Dilione Freddie PG 11.4
41 Holloway Aden PG 10.9
74 Power TJ PF 10.8
105 James Bronny G 10.3
111 Middleton Scotty SF 10.1
110 Dual Garwey G 7.9
116 Yates III Wesley G

PER:

Kentucky has 7 of the top 115

Compared to:

Alabama: 3 (#58, #80, #120)
Arizona: 1 (#44)
Arkansas: 3 (#18, #21, #23)
Auburn: 1 (#83)
Baylor: 1 (#64)
California: (#56)
Creighton: 1 (#106)
Duke: 2 (#28, #95)
Florida: 2 (#22, #41)
Georgetown: 2 (#47, #98)
Georgia Tech: 1 (101)
Gonzaga: 1 (33)
Houston: 1 (118)
Illinois: 3 (31, 110, 112)
Indiana: 3 (7, 82, 117)
Kansas: 4 (37, 50, 94, 116)
Kansas St. 1 (85)
Kentucky: 7 (2, 38, 66, 71, 79, 105, 115)
Louisville: 2 (46, 93)
Loyola Marymount: 1 (48)
LSU: 1 (29)
Maryland: 1 (13)
Memphis: 2 (6, 108)
Miami: 2 (3, 36)
Michigan: 5 (1, 25, 86, 89, 92)
Michigan St.: 1 (12)
Mississippi: 3 (19, 35, 67)
Missouri: 2 (49, 53)
NC State: 2 (42, 54)
Ohio St.: 2 (69, 77)
Oregon: 1 (84)
Penn St.: 1 (119)
Providence: 1 (55)
Saint Louis: 1 (11)
Seton Hall: 1 (123)
St. John's: 1 (68)
Tennessee: 2 (15, 61)
Texas: 2 (57, 65)
Texas A&M: 1 (43)
Texas Tech: 1 (91)
UCF: 1 (30)
UCLA: 4 (45, 62, 96, 114)
UCONN: 2 (97, 109)
UNC: 1 (39)
USC: 1 (9)
Wake Forest: 1 (104)
Washington: 1 (103)
West Virginia: 2 (17, 70)
Wisconsin: 1 (73)
Xavier: 1 (51)

Some who compare with UK highlighted.


Offensive Rating to follow.

Thank you!

 

[ukfan1622]

So did Barf ever respond to this post?

No. So I'll bump; maybe it hasn't noticed the post yet...

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

@Eight_Banners just solidified himself as one of our most valuable posters.

Good research. I love this type of stuff.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I like the fact that we have some guys that are proven at the highest level.

Kriisa, Carr, Oweh, and Garrison are P5 starters.

And Butler led his team to the national title game in 2023.

Williams and Butler are both Defensive POYs in their previous conferences.

The pieces are there, the only question is whether they will mesh together into a cohesive unit.

I like the stats, but it’s the other stuff like chemistry that will determine how good this team can be, IMHO.

 

[hmt5000]

I believe there is too much concern here over a player’s portal ranking. The numbers are flawed because teams do not play the same competition. For instance, DJ Wagner would have better numbers if he had played for a school in the Southern Conference. The key to success in the portal will be coaches that know how to select the right guys and how to play them together as a team

Or looking at the 3 to 6 games a guy plays against p5 conf teams and see if they play better against better comp or worse... I've seen several guys in the portal were mentioned as having their best games against their best opponents.

 

[hmt5000]

The offense passes players open. BYU players were middling drivers. They still took half their shots at the rim.

RELAX

That was what I saw. BYU had guys getting wide open layups. We get a guy like Poplar and you'll see some insane dunks.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Pretty impressive considering we had to get a whole roster out of the transfer portal for the most part.

What Pope did is exactly what I expected. This guy isn't full of bull-.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Analytically the thing about the roster/offense that I’m struggling to understand is we all know that outside of free throws the most efficient shots are three’s and layups. But I don’t see how we are going to consistently generate quality layups with the current roster and the offensive scheme. Butler and Oweh are average drivers and Carr has a couple of post moves. I’m not saying we won’t be able to….but I’m struggling to understand the vision.

Pope talked about the bigs being the best of the best big passers in college basketball. I think his vision is working ball through bigs; create spacing through movement and allow these bigs to react.

If they have the court vision he described (have no reason to doubt him) there will be space and open shots everywhere.

This group as constructed avg a combined 76ppg. That is taking into consideration no changes to performance. I suspect with better spacing and offensive strategy this will be a high scoring offense. Then, you take the fact that is is a physical group...several known for defense....will be a hard team to play.

JMHO

 

[Catfan2226]

@Eight_Banners just solidified himself as one of our most valuable posters.

Good research. I love this type of stuff.

Absolutely, excellent work Eight_Banners.

 

[Girthang]

That was what I saw. BYU had guys getting wide open layups. We get a guy like Poplar and you'll see some insane dunks.

Exactly

 

[Eight_Banners]

@Eight_Banners just solidified himself as one of our most valuable posters.

Good research. I love this type of stuff.

I appreciate it. I definitely spent a lot of time on it, but I was just tired of taking at face value the rankings from these various sites. With high school rankings it's kind of a crap shoot. Yeah, there are Anthony Davis-type players every now and then (Zion, KD, KAT, Nerlens, etc.), but at the end of the day, any of the top 100 players could become and unsuspecting star or dud.

With the transfer portal, we have actual numbers to work with, and I don't think these sites are doing the work required to give accurate rankings (as I hope my original post demonstrated). I am really excited about what Pope has put together, though I don't know that UK even put together the best team. Michigan is right there with us. Duke didn't win the portal, but I think they got the absolute two best players to pair with what they have coming in. I hate to say it, but Kansas, Duke, and UNC are all going to be good next year. I hope Pope's construction at least puts us in the conversation in 2024-25. I don't think he's done, and I think the final pieces are going to be absolute BOOMs!

 

[CatsFan4Evr.]

@Warf2012…thoughts? I think the guy that did all of this research deserves that, at least.

 

[susan2361]

This is a counterargument to Warf2012's argument that we missed on too many good players. @1war posted the Rivals transfer rankings that I think are better than the 247 sports rankings in the former post. I have done the work to put together the top 125 players in the 247sports.com based on Player Efficiency Ratings (PER), Offensive Rating per 100 possessions (ORtg), Defensive Ratings per 100 possessions (DRtg), and Overall Efficiency Rating (OERtg). OERtg is my own stat, which I arrive at by subtracting DRtg from ORtg which shows the difference between a player's excellence on offense and defense, demonstrating their overall effectiveness on both ends of the floor.

Without further ado:

Top 125 based on 2023-24 PER:

UNCOMMITTED

247 Rank---Last Name---First Name---Position---PER Rank

46 Goldin Vladislav C 31.3
86 Williams Amari C 28.5 (#2)
83 Kidd Lynn C 27.6
27 Toppin JT PF 27.4
5 Omier Norchad F 26.8
34 Haggerty PJ SG 26.5
2 Ballo Oumar C 26.4
52 White Trazarien PF 26.2
77 Thomas Saint SF 26.1
7 Osobor Great C 25.5
60 Avila Robbie C 25.1
87 Fidler Frankie SF 25.1
51 Gillespie Ja'Kobi PG 24.7
10 Lanier Chaz G 24.6
119 Dubar Darlinstone PF 24.4
108 Dell'Orso Anthony SG 24.3
6 DeVries Tucker SF 24.1
53 Ivisic Zvonomir PF 23.9
96 Dia Malik SF 23.6
1 Richmond Kadary G 23.5
19 Aidoo Jonas C 23
112 Alexis Sam C 22.8
3 Davis Johnell G 22.7
57 Stewart Sean PF 22.5
28 Wolf Danny C 22.3
123 Owusu-Anane Nana PF 22.3
12 Smith Deivon G 22.1
68 Brown Maliq PF 22
97 Sears Jordan PG 22
117 Hall Keyshawn PF 22
109 Humrichous Ben SF 21.8
13 Omoruyi Clifford C 21.7
30 Ajayi Michael SF 21.1
50 Battle Khalif SG 21.1
63 Davis Dre SF 21.1
101 Blackmon Jalen G 21.1
25 Mayo Zeke SG 20.8
69 Carr Andrew SF 20.8 (#38)
36 Tyson Cade SF 20.7
115 Lubin Ven-Allen F 20.7
107 Chinyelu Rueben C 20.4
54 Huntley-Hatfield Brandon C 20.3
61 Payne Pharrel C 20.3
76 Townsend Trey SF 20.3
99 Bilodeau Tyler PF 20.3
79 Edwards Terrence SG 20.2
29 Mack Malik PG 20.1
58 Porter Jevon PF 20.1
16 Mitchell Mark PF 20
4 Storr AJ SF 19.7
88 Conwell Ryan SG 19.7
23 Hawkins Coleman PF 19.4
55 Perkins Tony PG 19.3
100 Hill Marcus G 19.3
114 Cardet Wesley SG 19.3
67 Stojakovic Andrej SF 19.2
43 Mark Tramon SF 19.1
81 Youngblood Chris SG 19.1
14 Wells Jaylen F 18.6
21 Mitchell Dillon PF 18.6
49 Okpara Felix C 18.6
59 Dailey, Jr. Eric PF 18.6
124 Evans Ken SG 18.4
11 Roach Jeremy G 18.3
66 Pope Jordan G 18.3
89 Brea Koby G 18.3 (#66)
45 Pedulla Sean PG 18.1
121 Scott Aaron SF 18
84 Johnson Meechie SG 17.9
9 Small Javon G 17.8
22 Garrison Brandon C 17.8 (#71)
102 Davis DJ SG 17.8
106 Amos Xavier PF 17.8
31 Thiero Adou SF 17.7
72 Hoggard AJ G 17.7
122 Ausar Ezra PF 17.7
42 Bradshaw Aaron PF 17.6
95 Alexander Posh G 17.6
33 Oweh Otega SF 17.5 (#79)
118 Mallette Houston SG 17.2
73 Ledlum Chris SF 17.1
26 Rice Myles G 17
75 Pegues JP PG 16.9
90 Angel Brandon SF 16.9
56 McDaniel Dug PG 16.8
62 Gayle, Jr. Roddy G 16.4
82 Lawrence Tyrin G 16.4
35 Robinson Jaxson SF 16.3
92 Donaldson Tre G 16.1
32 Claude Desmond SG 15.9
71 Hawkins Elijah 15.9
98 Walters Sam SF 15.9
103 Hepburn Chucky G 15.9
39 Griffen Rylan 15.5
93 Gillis Mason SF 15.5
8 Johnson Kobe SF 15.2
78 Reed, Jr. Tarris C 15.2
120 Peavy Micah SF 15.2
18 Poplar Wooga SF 15.1
40 Brazile Trevon PF 15.1
44 McCollum Javian PG 15.1
70 Bamba TJ G 14.6
85 Mason Mekhi SG 14.5
80 Biliew Omaha PF 14.4
47 Butler, Jr. Lamont PG 14.3 (#105)
65 Isaacs Pop G 13.9
15 Christie Cameron SG 13.7
20 Hunter Tyrese G 13.6
24 Mahaney Aidan G 13.6
38 Boswell Kylan PG 13.6
64 Kelly Miles SG 13.3
94 Booth Carey PF 12.9
37 Wagner DJ PG 12.7
91 Clark Skyy PG 12.5
125 Kriisa Kerr G 12.1 (#115)
113 Kugel Riley PG 11.6
17 Carlyle Kanaan G 11.5
48 Uzan Milos PG 11.5
104 Dilione Freddie PG 11.4
41 Holloway Aden PG 10.9
74 Power TJ PF 10.8
105 James Bronny G 10.3
111 Middleton Scotty SF 10.1
110 Dual Garwey G 7.9
116 Yates III Wesley G

PER:

Kentucky has 7 of the top 115

Compared to:

Alabama: 3 (#58, #80, #120)
Arizona: 1 (#44)
Arkansas: 3 (#18, #21, #23)
Auburn: 1 (#83)
Baylor: 1 (#64)
California: (#56)
Creighton: 1 (#106)
Duke: 2 (#28, #95)
Florida: 2 (#22, #41)
Georgetown: 2 (#47, #98)
Georgia Tech: 1 (101)
Gonzaga: 1 (33)
Houston: 1 (118)
Illinois: 3 (31, 110, 112)
Indiana: 3 (7, 82, 117)
Kansas: 4 (37, 50, 94, 116)
Kansas St. 1 (85)
Kentucky: 7 (2, 38, 66, 71, 79, 105, 115)
Louisville: 2 (46, 93)
Loyola Marymount: 1 (48)
LSU: 1 (29)
Maryland: 1 (13)
Memphis: 2 (6, 108)
Miami: 2 (3, 36)
Michigan: 5 (1, 25, 86, 89, 92)
Michigan St.: 1 (12)
Mississippi: 3 (19, 35, 67)
Missouri: 2 (49, 53)
NC State: 2 (42, 54)
Ohio St.: 2 (69, 77)
Oregon: 1 (84)
Penn St.: 1 (119)
Providence: 1 (55)
Saint Louis: 1 (11)
Seton Hall: 1 (123)
St. John's: 1 (68)
Tennessee: 2 (15, 61)
Texas: 2 (57, 65)
Texas A&M: 1 (43)
Texas Tech: 1 (91)
UCF: 1 (30)
UCLA: 4 (45, 62, 96, 114)
UCONN: 2 (97, 109)
UNC: 1 (39)
USC: 1 (9)
Wake Forest: 1 (104)
Washington: 1 (103)
West Virginia: 2 (17, 70)
Wisconsin: 1 (73)
Xavier: 1 (51)

Some who compare with UK highlighted.


Offensive Rating to follow.

WOW!!!! The amount of work you put into all of this is absolutely INCREDIBLE!!! I can't thank you enough. I appreciate all of the work and time involved in the research, organizing that research, entering the information in a way that is easy to follow and understand. Since I know less than the posters on this board and I am trying to understand things that are sometimes over my head, I personally appreciate this easy to follow information. You are, by the way, one of those posters on here that I have the utmost respect for.

GO BIG BLUE AND
COACH POPE, TOO!!!💙💙💙

 

[jedcat]

I think the general consensus among a majority of posters here is that Pope has deliberately put a thoughtful and good roster together, and a couple more who are testing the NBA could further help. These stats verify that feeling. Thanks!

 

[Padsfs07]

Portal Rankings based on ORtg:

247 Ranks Last Name First Name Position Ortg Rating ORtg
93 Gillis Mason SF 1 137.4
68 Brown Maliq PF 2 135

Duke got #1 and #2. I didn't notice that. They will be really good next year with the 2 returnees and the freshman class.

 

[Padsfs07]

One thing that stood out to me is how low Jaxson Robinson is on these lists.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

I just want to say and I’m sure I’m not alone the appreciation of you for diving into the analytics and research you do. Thank you.

Ditto...8 banners reminds me of a young Aike

 

[Eight_Banners]

One thing that stood out to me is how low Jaxson Robinson is on these lists.

Yeah. Give me Jaylen Wells over Jaxson Robinson. The primary advantage Robinson has over other players is knowing Pope's system.

 

[Eight_Banners]

WOW!!!! The amount of work you put into all of this is absolutely INCREDIBLE!!! I can't thank you enough. I appreciate all of the work and time involved in the research, organizing that research, entering the information in a way that is easy to follow and understand. Since I know less than the posters on this board and I am trying to understand things that are sometimes over my head, I personally appreciate this easy to follow information. You are, by the way, one of those posters on here that I have the utmost respect for.

GO BIG BLUE AND
COACH POPE, TOO!!!💙💙💙

I truly appreciate that. I find that trying to rank college players who already have experience and statistics in college basketball is much easier than trying to rank high school players. As with any type of ranking there are certainly going to be outliers and things unaccounted for. However, using a player's metrics compared with others has to account for something, and I am hopeful that this information gives us good indication of what we are getting in these new players.

I am glad it has been helpful to so many.

 

[Eight_Banners]

Duke got #1 and #2. I didn't notice that. They will be really good next year with the 2 returnees and the freshman class.

I think Duke is going to be really good. Though they did lose a lot of players to the transfer portal.

They lost, in order of PER:

#1- Kyle Filipowski (PER: 26.0; ORtg: 117.3, DRtg: 94.5) - NBA
#2- Sean Stewart (PER 22.5) - Baylor
#3- Mark Mitchell (PER 20.0) - Missouri
#4- Jared McCain (PER 19.4) -NBA
#5- Jeremy Roach (PER 18.3) - Baylor
#6- Ryan Young (PER 15.6) - Graduate
#9- Jaylen Blakes (PER 11.6) - Transfer
#10- TJ Power (PER 10.8) - Virginia
#11- Christian Reeves (PER 10.2) - Transfer

Looks like they have Tyrese Proctor and Caleb Foster coming back, who were Duke's #7 and #8 PER players. They will go with Cooper Flagg (#1 HS), Kon Knuepppel (#9 HS), Isaiah Evans (#13 HS), Patrick Ngongba (#28 HS), Darren Harris (#38 HS), Khaman Maluach (Unrated HS). Along with Mason Gillis and Maliq Brown.

Duke should be good offensively. Defensively, with a lot of inexperienced college players, they may get eaten alive.

 

[Eight_Banners]

After the last few days of commitments, here are the best available players left, ranked by various metrics.


PER
Last Name First Name Position Season OVERALL PER Rank PER
Toppin JT PF 2023-24 4 27.4
White Trazarien PF 2023-24 8 26.2
Osobor Great C 2023-24 10 25.5
Lanier Chaz G 2023-24 14 24.6
Dell'Orso Anthony SG 2023-24 16 24.3
Richmond Kadary G 2023-24 20 23.5
TOP 20
Owusu-Anane Nana PF 2023-24 26 22.3
Lubin Ven-Allen F 2023-24 40 20.7
TOP 50

Hawkins Coleman PF 2023-24 52 19.4
Mitchell Dillon PF 2023-24 60 18.6
Wells Jaylen F 2023-24 59 18.6
Evans Ken SG 2023-24 63 18.4
Davis DJ SG 2023-24 72 17.8
Ausar Ezra PF 2023-24 76 17.7
Hoggard AJ G 2023-24 75 17.7
Ledlum Chris SF 2023-24 81 17.1
Robinson Jaxson SF 2023-24 88 16.3
Claude Desmond SG 2023-24 90 15.9
Poplar Wooga SF 2023-24 99 15.1
Brazile Trevon PF 2023-24 100 15.1
TOP 100

100-125
Christie Cameron SG 2023-24 107 13.7
Kelly Miles SG 2023-24 111 13.3
Wagner DJ PG 2023-24 113 12.7
James Bronny G 2023-24 122 10.3
Dual Garwey G 2023-24 124 7.9
Yates III Wesley G 2023-24 125

ORtg

Last Name First Name Position OVERALL Ortg Rating ORtg
Toppin JT PF 4 131.8
Lanier Chaz G 8 129
Wells Jaylen F 9 128.5
Hawkins Coleman PF 20 122.5
Top 20

Osobor Great C 39 116.5
Lubin Ven-Allen F 41 116.4
Davis DJ SG 42 116.3
Mitchell Dillon PF 47 115
Owusu-Anane Nana PF 48 114.8
White Trazarien PF 50 114.1
Top 50

Christie Cameron SG 62 112
Dell'Orso Anthony SG 63 111.7
Ledlum Chris SF 71 110.5
Robinson Jaxson SF 72 110.2
Evans Ken SG 78 109.1
Hoggard AJ G 81 108.9
Brazile Trevon PF 84 108.8
Richmond Kadary G 85 108.7
Ausar Ezra PF 88 108.6
Poplar Wooga SF 89 108.6
Top 100

100-125
Wagner DJ PG 101 105.6
Claude Desmond SG 102 105.5
Kelly Miles SG 111 100.5
James Bronny G 118 98.1
Dual Garwey G 124 89.2
Yates III Wesley G 125



DRtg

Last Name First Name Position DRtg Rating DRtg
Toppin JT PF 5 93.8
Mitchell Dillon PF 12 98.2
Osobor Great C 13 98.4
Richmond Kadary G 17 98.6
Top 20

Hoggard AJ G 29 101.1
Ledlum Chris SF 31 101.3
Hawkins Coleman PF 32 101.4
Owusu-Anane Nana PF 37 101.8
Dual Garwey G 49 102.8
Top 50

Dell'Orso Anthony SG 55 103.5
Robinson Jaxson SF 57 103.9
Wells Jaylen F 59 104.3
White Trazarien PF 66 105.1
James Bronny G 81 106.8
Davis DJ SG 82 107
Poplar Wooga SF 90 108.1
Ausar Ezra PF 95 108.8
Claude Desmond SG 97 108.8
Brazile Trevon PF 98 109.1
Top 100

100-125
Christie Cameron SG 104 109.8
Evans Ken SG 106 110.3
Kelly Miles SG 108 110.6
Lanier Chaz G 109 110.7
Lubin Ven-Allen F 117 112.7
Wagner DJ PG 118 113.6
Yates III Wesley G 125

OERtg

Last Name First Name Position Overall Eff. Rating Eff. Rating
Toppin JT PF 1 38
Wells Jaylen F 11 24.2
Hawkins Coleman PF 16 21.1
Top 20

Lanier Chaz G 22 18.3
Osobor Great C 24 18.1
Mitchell Dillon PF 31 16.8
Owusu-Anane Nana PF 42 13
Top 50

Richmond Kadary G 53 10.1
Davis DJ SG 55 9.3
Ledlum Chris SF 56 9.2
White Trazarien PF 57 9
Dell'Orso Anthony SG 60 8.2
Hoggard AJ G 63 7.8
Robinson Jaxson SF 70 6.3
Lubin Ven-Allen F 83 3.7
Christie Cameron SG 85 2.2
Poplar Wooga SF 92 0.5
Ausar Ezra PF 96 -0.2
Brazile Trevon PF 97 -0.3
Top 100

100-125
Evans Ken SG 101 -1.2
Claude Desmond SG 108 -3.3
Wagner DJ PG 115 -8
James Bronny G 116 -8.7
Kelly Miles SG 118 -10.1
Dual Garwey G 121 -13.6
Yates III Wesley G 125

 

[Eight_Banners]

UPDATED following Kadary Richmond commitment.


PER
Last Name First Name Position Season OVERALL PER Rank PER
Toppin JT PF 2023-24 4 27.4
White Trazarien PF 2023-24 8 26.2
Osobor Great C 2023-24 10 25.5
Lanier Chaz G 2023-24 14 24.6
Dell'Orso Anthony SG 2023-24 16 24.3
TOP 20

Owusu-Anane Nana PF 2023-24 26 22.3
Lubin Ven-Allen F 2023-24 40 20.7
TOP 50

Hawkins Coleman PF 2023-24 52 19.4
Mitchell Dillon PF 2023-24 60 18.6
Wells Jaylen F 2023-24 59 18.6
Evans Ken SG 2023-24 63 18.4
Davis DJ SG 2023-24 72 17.8
Ausar Ezra PF 2023-24 76 17.7
Hoggard AJ G 2023-24 75 17.7
Ledlum Chris SF 2023-24 81 17.1
Robinson Jaxson SF 2023-24 88 16.3
Claude Desmond SG 2023-24 90 15.9
Poplar Wooga SF 2023-24 99 15.1
Brazile Trevon PF 2023-24 100 15.1
TOP 100

100-125
Christie Cameron SG 2023-24 107 13.7
Kelly Miles SG 2023-24 111 13.3
Wagner DJ PG 2023-24 113 12.7
James Bronny G 2023-24 122 10.3
Dual Garwey G 2023-24 124 7.9
Yates III Wesley G 2023-24 125

ORtg

Last Name First Name Position OVERALL Ortg Rating ORtg
Toppin JT PF 4 131.8
Lanier Chaz G 8 129
Wells Jaylen F 9 128.5
Hawkins Coleman PF 20 122.5
Top 20

Osobor Great C 39 116.5
Lubin Ven-Allen F 41 116.4
Davis DJ SG 42 116.3
Mitchell Dillon PF 47 115
Owusu-Anane Nana PF 48 114.8
White Trazarien PF 50 114.1
Top 50

Christie Cameron SG 62 112
Dell'Orso Anthony SG 63 111.7
Ledlum Chris SF 71 110.5
Robinson Jaxson SF 72 110.2
Evans Ken SG 78 109.1
Hoggard AJ G 81 108.9
Brazile Trevon PF 84 108.8
Ausar Ezra PF 88 108.6
Poplar Wooga SF 89 108.6
Top 100

100-125
Wagner DJ PG 101 105.6
Claude Desmond SG 102 105.5
Kelly Miles SG 111 100.5
James Bronny G 118 98.1
Dual Garwey G 124 89.2
Yates III Wesley G 125



DRtg

Last Name First Name Position DRtg Rating DRtg
Toppin JT PF 5 93.8
Mitchell Dillon PF 12 98.2
Osobor Great C 13 98.4
Top 20

Hoggard AJ G 29 101.1
Ledlum Chris SF 31 101.3
Hawkins Coleman PF 32 101.4
Owusu-Anane Nana PF 37 101.8
Dual Garwey G 49 102.8
Top 50

Dell'Orso Anthony SG 55 103.5
Robinson Jaxson SF 57 103.9
Wells Jaylen F 59 104.3
White Trazarien PF 66 105.1
James Bronny G 81 106.8
Davis DJ SG 82 107
Poplar Wooga SF 90 108.1
Ausar Ezra PF 95 108.8
Claude Desmond SG 97 108.8
Brazile Trevon PF 98 109.1
Top 100

100-125
Christie Cameron SG 104 109.8
Evans Ken SG 106 110.3
Kelly Miles SG 108 110.6
Lanier Chaz G 109 110.7
Lubin Ven-Allen F 117 112.7
Wagner DJ PG 118 113.6
Yates III Wesley G 125

OERtg

Last Name First Name Position Overall Eff. Rating Eff. Rating
Toppin JT PF 1 38
Wells Jaylen F 11 24.2
Hawkins Coleman PF 16 21.1
Top 20

Lanier Chaz G 22 18.3
Osobor Great C 24 18.1
Mitchell Dillon PF 31 16.8
Owusu-Anane Nana PF 42 13
Top 50


Davis DJ SG 55 9.3
Ledlum Chris SF 56 9.2
White Trazarien PF 57 9
Dell'Orso Anthony SG 60 8.2
Hoggard AJ G 63 7.8
Robinson Jaxson SF 70 6.3
Lubin Ven-Allen F 83 3.7
Christie Cameron SG 85 2.2
Poplar Wooga SF 92 0.5
Ausar Ezra PF 96 -0.2
Brazile Trevon PF 97 -0.3
Top 100

100-125
Evans Ken SG 101 -1.2
Claude Desmond SG 108 -3.3
Wagner DJ PG 115 -8
James Bronny G 116 -8.7
Kelly Miles SG 118 -10.1
Dual Garwey G 121 -13.6
Yates III Wesley G 125

 

[Eight_Banners]

Also, overlooked in this thread is the fact that Achor Achor was missing from 247sports.com's final portal rankings. He's a PF out of Samford, and here are his PER/ORtg/DRtg/OERtg rankings:

PER: #2
ORtg: #13
DRtg: #12
OERtg: #9

Needless to say, he's a hot commodity. I would rank him slightly behind JT Toppin, primarily because Toppin is only going to be sophomore.

 

[Eight_Banners]

Here is another portal player, added on 5/6/2024. A SF out of Florida State, who is a top-20 overall portal player:

Jamir Watkins
6-7, 210lb
PER: 24.2 (#17 overall)
ORtg: 112.9 (#56 overall)
DRtg: 101.7 (#37 overall)
OERtg: 11.2 (#53 overall)

 

[Eight_Banners]

Update 05/15/2024
see original post for entire list in order

Organized by PER Rating and categorized with school commitment. TOP 100 in BOLD
First Name Last Name OVERALL PER Rank PER School Committed

Clifford Omoruyi 48 21.7 Alabama
Chris Youngblood 85 19.1 Alabama
Houston Mallette 125 17.2 Alabama
Aden Holloway 170 10.9 Alabama

Anthony Dell'Orso 25 24.3 Arizona
Tobe Awaka 50 21.3 Arizona
Trey Townsend 66 20.3 Arizona

BJ Freeman 35 22.9 Arizona State

Zvonomir Ivisic 28 23.9 Arkansas
Jonas Aidoo 33 23 Arkansas
Johnell Davis 38 22.7 Arkansas
Adou Thiero 117 17.7 Arkansas
DJ Wagner 163 12.7 Arkansas

JP Pegues 131 16.9 Auburn

Norchad Omier 7 26.8 Baylor
Jeremy Roach 99 18.3 Baylor

Nana Owusu-Anane 40 22.3 Brown

Andrej Stojakovic 83 19.2 California
Josh Ola-Joseph 89 18.7 California

Pop Isaacs 155 13.9 Creighton
Jamiya Neal 161 13.2 Creighton

Posh Alexander 121 17.6 Dayton

Maliq Brown 44 22 Duke
Sion James 109 18 Duke
Mason Gillis 142 15.5 Duke

KyKy Tandy 95 18.4 FAU

Sam Alexis 36 22.8 Florida
Rueben Chinyelu 62 20.4 Florida
Alijah Martin 107 18.1 Florida

Jerry Deng 103 18.2 Florida State

Malik Mack 68 20.1 Georgetown
Micah Peavy 144 15.2 Georgetown

Justin Absom 22 Georgia
Dakota Leffew 104 18.2 Georgia
Tyrin Lawrence 135 16.4 Georgia

Javian McCollum 147 15.1 Georgia Tech

Khalif Battle 52 21.1 Gonzaga
Michael Ajayi 53 21.1 Gonzaga

Milos Uzan 167 11.5 Houston

Ben Humrichous 47 21.8 Illinois
Kylan Boswell 158 13.6 Illinois
Carey Booth 162 12.9 Illinois

Oumar Ballo 10 26.4 Indiana
Myles Rice 130 17 Indiana
Kanaan Carlyle 168 11.5 Indiana

Dejour Reaves 88 18.9 Iona

Zeke Mayo 59 20.8 Kansas
AJ Storr 77 19.7 Kansas
Rylan Griffen 143 15.5 Kansas
Riley Kugel 166 11.6 Kansas

Dug McDaniel 133 16.8 Kansas State

Amari Williams 4 28.5 Kentucky
Andrew Carr 57 20.8 Kentucky
Koby Brea 98 18.3 Kentucky
Brandon Garrison 114 17.8 Kentucky
Otega Oweh 123 17.5 Kentucky
Lamont Butler, Jr. 154 14.3 Kentucky
Kerr Kriisa 165 12.1 Kentucky

Duncan Powell 49 21.4 Louisiana

Kasean Pryor 34 23 Louisville
Terrence Edwards 67 20.2 Louisville
J'Vonne Hadley 111 18 Louisville
Koren Johnson 122 17.6 Louisville
Chucky Hepburn 138 15.9 Louisville

Jevon Porter 69 20.1 Loyola Marymount

Jordan Sears 46 22 LSU

Ja'Kobi Gillespie 22 24.7 Maryland

PJ Haggerty 9 26.5 Memphis
Tyreek Smith 11 26.2 Memphis
Tyrese Hunter 159 13.6 Memphis

Lynn Kidd 5 27.6 Miami
Jalen Blackmon 54 21.1 Miami

Vladislav Goldin 1 31.3 Michigan
Danny Wolf 41 22.3 Michigan
Roddy Gayle, Jr. 134 16.4 Michigan
Tre Donaldson 137 16.1 Michigan
Sam Walters 139 15.9 Michigan

Frankie Fidler 19 25.1 Michigan State

Mikeal Brown-Jones 3 29.8 Mississippi
Malik Dia 31 23.6 Mississippi
Dre Davis 51 21.1 Mississippi
Sean Pedulla 106 18.1 Mississippi

Kanye Clary 70 20.1 Mississippi State

Jacob Crews 29 23.8 Missouri
Mark Mitchell 71 20 Missouri
Tony Perkins 80 19.3 Missouri

Brandon Huntley-Hatfield 64 20.3 NC STATE
Marcus Hill 81 19.3 NC STATE

Nikita Konstantynovskyi 56 20.9 Notre Dame

Sean Stewart 39 22.5 Ohio State
Meechie Johnson 112 17.9 Ohio State
Aaron Bradshaw 120 17.6 Ohio State

Duke Miles 30 23.8 Oklahoma
Brycen Goodine 58 20.8 Oklahoma

Brandon Angel 132 16.9 Oregon
TJ Bamba 151 14.6 Oregon

Freddie Dilione 169 11.4 Penn State

Wesley Cardet 82 19.3 Providence

Robbie Avila 18 25.1 Saint Louis

Scotty Middleton 173 10.1 Seton Hall

Matt Cross 16 25.5 SMU
Kevin Miller 87 19 SMU

Jamarii Thomas 37 22.7 South Carolina
Nick Pringle 110 18 South Carolina

Kadary Richmond 32 23.5 St. John's
Deivon Smith 43 22.1 St. John's
Justice Ajogbor 73 20 St. John's
Aaron Scott 108 18 St. John's

Darlinstone Dubar 24 24.4 Tennessee
Felix Okpara 91 18.6 Tennessee

Tramon Mark 86 19.1 Texas
Jordan Pope 102 18.3 Texas
Jordan Pope 101 18.3 Texas

Pharrel Payne 65 20.3 Texas A&M
Zhuric Phelps 105 18.2 Texas A&M

Elijah Hawkins 140 15.9 Texas Tech

Kenny Pohto 126 17.2 UC Santa-Barbara

Keyshawn Hall 45 22 UCF

William Kyle 21 24.9 UCLA
Tyler Bilodeau 63 20.3 UCLA
Eric Dailey, Jr. 93 18.6 UCLA
Kobe Johnson 146 15.2 UCLA
Skyy Clark 164 12.5 UCLA

Tarris Reed, Jr. 145 15.2 UCONN
Aidan Mahaney 157 13.6 UCONN

Cade Tyson 60 20.7 UNC

Jailen Bedford 129 17.1 UNLV

Saint Thomas 13 26.1 USC
Josh Cohen 20 25.1 USC
Desmond Claude 141 15.9 USC

Aubin Gateretse 8 26.8 Utah St.

Jason Edwards 84 19.2 Vanderbilt

Max Shulga 74 19.7 Villanova

TJ Power 171 10.8 Virginia

Omaha Biliew 153 14.4 Wake Forest

Great Osobor 17 25.5 Washington
Mekhi Mason 152 14.5 Washington

Tucker DeVries 27 24.1 West Virginia
Javon Small 115 17.8 West Virginia

Camren Hunter 94 18.6 Wisconsin
Xavier Amos 116 17.8 Wisconsin

Ryan Conwell 75 19.7 Xavier
Dante Maddox, Jr. 78 19.6 Xavier