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Tom Leach RE: Askew

ksharpless said:
lol "last year when he was out.."?

How is that fair? He also led that very team in scoring in their summer league play. Is it not more likely, the whole team probably just got better over a year (shocker) rather than they got better after he got hurt lol.

Also, back to ball handling. Askew has had trouble with athletic defenders. Obviously he should grow through this, but how quickly?

We discussed this in a thread a couple weeks back and I remember Cotown cat was in there but I'm not sure if you saw so I'll repost.


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I don't think Devin has been penciled in at the 1.
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https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/creighton/2019.html

And take off the top and bottom guy on the lists because they didn't play enough to get real readings. But out of 10 players on their team...Mintz ranked.
-3rd in minutes per game
-8th out of 10 in Player Efficiency Rating
-10th out of 10 in True Shooting
-10th out of 10 in Effective FG%
-7th out of 10 in Win Shares Per 40 minutes
-7th out of 10 in Box Plus/Minutes
-8th out of 10 in Offensive Rating
-7th out of 10 in Defensive Rating

Those number are awful. Yes he's better now...but he was starting that whole year and they made the NIT....so he was playing more minutes than more productive players and they were an NIT team. The next year...the more productive players take a larger role and they become a top 10 team.


Well if Devin isn't the answer at the one...Cal didn't do a good job and got caught with his pants down only being able to get Mintz.

OR?

Cal got a guy that has played 3 years of starter minutes in the Big East that is open to coming off the bench because he feels very good about Devin Askew. I'm going to go with this option.

Because I doubt Cal was like "Yeah guys...Askew isn't cutting it this year at point...we probably need to go get the backup guard at Creighton who is the #33 ranked grad transfer. That's the answer!"

If Cal was worried about our PG, he wouldn't have gotten Mintz as the answer.
 
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TheThack said:
I brought up Mintz? Wrong again. FYI, the discussion grew from its original premise of Askew being the starter to include other items as threads almost always do. But for the record, my first post in this thread was number 47 on the second page. Mintz was brought up in post 4, you mentioned him yourself in post 7. In total prior to my response, 15 posts mentioned Mintz by name, you included. Five others responded to posts about him without actually mentioning his name but were in reference to a comment about him.

So he is mentioned multiple times well prior to my first comment, but yet I brought him up. In fact, my specific response was to you when you described that Askew "was recruited and reclassed to come play point guard. When he’s on the court he’s running the offense and isn’t a gunner that just happens to have the ball in his hands every possession." And guess what, you made that very comment in reference to someone saying that Askew was a combo guard after someone else said that Mintz was a combo guard. So not only did I not bring Mintz up, you had already discussed him with others. My initial comment merely used your post about Askew being recruited and re-classed as an analogy to what happened with Mintz, since he did the grad transfer thing and was recruited to play the point also.

For whatever reason you continue in your attempt to change the focus from what I said to peripheral items I never discussed in an attempt to cloud the issue. That is a common deflection tactic used when your own points fail to successfully counter those of the person with whom you disagree.
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No deflections, no change in focus. I haven't come off what I've said all along. The observation in the OP isn't saying much because Askew is the only point guard on the roster. He's going to start from day one. Random guy said Askew was a combo guard, but Rivals says he's a point guard. I'm going with Rivals over random Cats Pause poster. You seem to think Mintz is a point guard and that invalidates what I said. It doesn't. You need to move on.
 
HagginHall1999 said:
The one thing I know with 100% certainty next season is that Boston/Clarke MUST BE as good as advertised for us to be successful as it stands now.
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I submit they better be better than advertised, unless Cal changes his offense and defense.
 
CELTICAT said:
No deflections, no change in focus. I haven't come off what I've said all along. The observation in the OP isn't saying much because Askew is the only point guard on the roster. He's going to start from day one. Random guy said Askew was a combo guard, but Rivals says he's a point guard. I'm going with Rivals over random Cats Pause poster. You seem to think Mintz is a point guard and that invalidates what I said. It doesn't. You need to move on.
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Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, and Darren Collison all think he's a point guard. I think they know a think or 2 about that position!
 
CELTICAT said:
BTW, I'm a lifelong out of stater, but all of my folks are from Hoptown. Family graveyard out near LaFayette. Several UHA grads in the family.
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You def know the area....as my family is from the LaFayette area. Government bought my grandparents land for next to nothing to build Ft. Campbell...boy what it was actually worth....
 
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HoptownCat93 said:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/creighton/2019.html

And take off the top and bottom guy on the lists because they didn't play enough to get real readings. But out of 10 players on their team...Mintz ranked.
-3rd in minutes per game
-8th out of 10 in Player Efficiency Rating
-10th out of 10 in True Shooting
-10th out of 10 in Effective FG%
-7th out of 10 in Win Shares Per 40 minutes
-7th out of 10 in Box Plus/Minutes
-8th out of 10 in Offensive Rating
-7th out of 10 in Defensive Rating

Those number are awful. Yes he's better now...but he was starting that whole year and they made the NIT....so he was playing more minutes than more productive players and they were an NIT team. The next year...the more productive players take a larger role and they become a top 10 team.


Well if Devin isn't the answer at the one...Cal didn't do a good job and got caught with his pants down only being able to get Mintz.

OR?

Cal got a guy that has played 3 years of starter minutes in the Big East that is open to coming off the bench because he feels very good about Devin Askew. I'm going to go with this option.

Because I doubt Cal was like "Yeah guys...Askew isn't cutting it this year at point...we probably need to go get the backup guard at Creighton who is the #33 ranked grad transfer. That's the answer!"

If Cal was worried about our PG, he wouldn't have gotten Mintz as the answer.
Click to expand...


Look at the film on Devin Askew. I repeat they will compete closely for that spot and most likely get similar minutes.
 
ksharpless said:
Look at the film on Devin Askew. I repeat they will compete closely for that spot and most likely get similar minutes.
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I mean based on the bench we have...it’s only going to be Mintz and Allen for the guards. So Mintz will be playing a lot of minutes regardless.

That’s why he’s a great fit. He can be a Swiss Army knife off he bench. He can play any of the 3 guard spots. He can defend if we need him to go lock up a certain player. He can stretch a defense due to his ability to shoot. We can give him a solid 15-25 minutes, and there’ll be some games he may carry us like Nate did a few times this past season.
 
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It's not Askew vs. Mintz for the starting PG role. Clarke should be included in the discussion as well. I actually think he is more likely than Mintz to be the starting PG. He's a big, talented wing. Cal has put guys like that into the starting PG role in the past, Evans and SGA come to mind. If he is the best player and he can handle, it might make sense to put it into his hands as much as possible.
 
Fox2monk said:
After all the sports cancelled and not having a tournament I hope no matter what everyone supports our team and the potential run we can make next year!
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Most will and we'll have a blast no matter what, while some will knash teeth from now until next year on why we can't make a run. Then they'll capitulate after the 1st loss and throw the towel in. [laughing]
 
caneintally said:
Duh. He is the most complete pg we have brought in since Fox. a TOTALLY different player then fox but still. The best pg since him.
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Jesus dude get real atleast a little. Truthfully he’s probably the worst pg since Fox. Shai was definitely a lot better. Even Hagans, who I don’t care for, is better than Askew.

Mintz better be able run the team because Askew will struggle.
 
tapemaster8 said:
Anthony Epps wasn't all that athletic if I remember correctly and he seemed to do ok.
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Played behind Ford as a Freshman. Struggled a bit as a Sophomore. Started on a title team as a Junior. Starter on a runner-up team as a Senior.

So, are we comparing Junior/Senior Epps to Freshman Askew or Freshman/Sophomore Epps to Freshman Askew?
 
ZaytovenCat said:
Jesus dude get real atleast a little. Truthfully he’s probably the worst pg since Fox. Shai was definitely a lot better. Even Hagans, who I don’t care for, is better than Askew.

Mintz better be able run the team because Askew will struggle.
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What a pompous statement about Askew in regards to Hagans. Just stupid.
 
If Cal doesn't find a big man, he should start both Mintz and Askew.

Small ball/four guard lineup with Mintz, Askew, Clarke, Boston, and Brooks.

Strengths of this lineup- shooting, ballhandling, passing, and perimeter defense.

Weaknesses- rebounding and interior defense.

If our big men are Jackson(6'10, 200) and Ware(6'9, 215), then I am not sure how much interior defense we will get from them when they face a 6'10+, 240+ lbs. five man (like the first game against KU's McCormack). At least with Brooks(6'8, 215) McCormack has to defend him on the other end and Brooks can pull him away from the basket.

In basketball, you have to create advantages and a four guard lineup creates mismatches. How many college 4's can guard Clarke or Boston on the perimeter?

Play your best five and don't get so caught up in the archaic notion of positions.

So, let's here a rebuttal and something besides, "you're stupid," or "that's the dumbest thing I ever heard."

Intelligent arguments only. Name calling will be ignored.
 
Askew
Boston
Clarke
Brooks
Jackson

6’2, 6’7, 6’7, 6’7, 6’9
All 5 stars
Lets roll.
 
CELTICAT said:
No deflections, no change in focus. I haven't come off what I've said all along. The observation in the OP isn't saying much because Askew is the only point guard on the roster. He's going to start from day one. Random guy said Askew was a combo guard, but Rivals says he's a point guard. I'm going with Rivals over random Cats Pause poster. You seem to think Mintz is a point guard and that invalidates what I said. It doesn't. You need to move on.
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And why exactly is it that I need to move on? Because I didn't roll over and just let you misrepresent my position? Frankly, I find your responses mysterious when all I have ever said was that I believe Mintz was recruited primarily to play point guard. I never said he was recruited to start over Askew. So what exactly your beef is, is beyond me.

That said, I think there are points we do agree on:
  1. Mintz is a guard
  2. He has the skills of a combo guard (you have said as much)
  3. A combo guard is someone with the combination of skills to play both the point and shooting guard roles
  4. Other than Mintz, we have one other player next year known to have point guard skills, Askew.
  5. And surprise, surprise, I have always believed Askew starts at the point next season.
If you still wish, maybe we can both move on. Your call.
 
With the new recruits coming in , Askew Mintz Boston Allen Clarke Fletcher Brooks Ware Jackson Toppin, is this the youngest group in Cal's time? Usually theres a few names you see and recognize but Brooks is the only one I see that has logged any minutes. How sweet it would be to win it all with a group of freshman finally.
 
drcats2013 said:
Yes. I had no idea he’d be as good as he was. Wall, Knight, Ulis and Fox seem to get all the love as the best PG’s of the Cal era, but Shai is 100% in that same category. He’s a bit under appreciated by some due to the team he was on.
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Exactly, he would get to the basket so easy that I always thought he could never do that at the next level and boom, he did. I was so wrong about him being just a good college guard.
 
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drcats2013 said:
Yes. I had no idea he’d be as good as he was. Wall, Knight, Ulis and Fox seem to get all the love as the best PG’s of the Cal era, but Shai is 100% in that same category. He’s a bit under appreciated by some due to the team he was on.
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Shai's rise in 2018 really took that team to another level. Say he played how we expected him to play...and Quade and Hami are playing more minutes...that team would've been awful.

SGA just took so much pressure off Knox and PJ, then they were able to settle into their roles later on in the year. If Baker and Vanderbilt were healthy, that team could've made a run. Vanderbilt added that rim protecting big that was a rebounding and defensive monster....and his passing was an added plus. Baker would've given us one more option off the bench for minutes and shooting.

That team was so young...lost 2 scholarship players to injury, kicked one off, had their highest guy in Hami be a bust....but he turned them into a contender late in the year. Cal's best coaching job IMO.
 
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HoptownCat93 said:
Shai's rise in 2018 really took that team to another level. Say he played how we expected him to play...and Quade and Hami are playing more minutes...that team would've been awful.

SGA just took so much pressure off Knox and PJ, then they were able to settle into their roles later on in the year. If Baker and Vanderbilt were healthy, that team could've made a run. Vanderbilt added that rim protecting big that was a rebounding and defensive monster....and his passing was an added plus. Baker would've given us one more option off the bench for minutes and shooting.

That team was so young...lost 2 scholarship players to injury, kicked one off, had their highest guy in Hami be a bust....but he turned them into a contender late in the year. Cal's best coaching job IMO.
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Absolutely. When I say it wasn’t a very good team, that’s no knock on Cal. He had the pieces there for a final four run, but like you said, Vanderbilts injury and Quade and Hami’s not meeting their expectations killed us.
 
drcats2013 said:
Absolutely. When I say it wasn’t a very good team, that’s no knock on Cal. He had the pieces there for a final four run, but like you said, Vanderbilts injury and Quade and Hami’s not meeting their expectations killed us.
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-2 returning scholarship players...Wenyen and Sacha
-Lost pretty much the entire team from 2017
-Vanderbilt injured most of the year
-Baker was injured most of the year, on a team that lacked shooting
-Quade, 5-star who didn't live up
-Richards, bust as a freshman
-Hami, bust considering his expectations
-Wynard, kicked off the team

Amazing what Cal did with that group. He could only really count on SGA, Knox, and & PJ. No depth. No shooting. No experience. No upperclassman.
 
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drcats2013 said:
Yes. I had no idea he’d be as good as he was. Wall, Knight, Ulis and Fox seem to get all the love as the best PG’s of the Cal era, but Shai is 100% in that same category. He’s a bit under appreciated by some due to the team he was on.
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I wonder how much of that is because of incoming expectations for Wall, Knight and Fox compared to that of Shai. And with respect to Ulis, he had the benefit of two seasons and was a dog. When Shai came in there was not a lot of hype and it took a while for his dominance to shine through. As I recall didn't Green originally start the first third of the season? And as you noted the team struggled before rallying to win the SEC Conference tourney and making a Sweet Sixteen NCAA Exit
 
TheThack said:
I wonder how much of that is because of incoming expectations for Wall, Knight and Fox compared to that of Shai. And with respect to Ulis, he had the benefit of two seasons and was a dog. When Shai came in there was not a lot of hype and it took a while for his dominance to shine through. As I recall didn't Green originally start the first third of the season? And as you noted the team struggled before rallying to win the SEC Conference tourney and making a Sweet Sixteen NCAA Exit
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Yea, Green was the starter for the first 10-12 games or so before Shai took over. Sophomore Shai in the backcourt with Herro would have been lethal. No way that team doesn’t win a title. Hagans shitting the bed cost us a final four that year.
 
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HoptownCat93 said:
Shai's rise in 2018 really took that team to another level. Say he played how we expected him to play...and Quade and Hami are playing more minutes...that team would've been awful.

SGA just took so much pressure off Knox and PJ, then they were able to settle into their roles later on in the year. If Baker and Vanderbilt were healthy, that team could've made a run. Vanderbilt added that rim protecting big that was a rebounding and defensive monster....and his passing was an added plus. Baker would've given us one more option off the bench for minutes and shooting.

That team was so young...lost 2 scholarship players to injury, kicked one off, had their highest guy in Hami be a bust....but he turned them into a contender late in the year. Cal's best coaching job IMO.
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I still think Vanderbilt would have been special if he had stayed healthy.
 
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drcats2013 said:
Absolutely. When I say it wasn’t a very good team, that’s no knock on Cal. He had the pieces there for a final four run, but like you said, Vanderbilts injury and Quade and Hami’s not meeting their expectations killed us.
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I'd say he didn't have the pieces. We may have hoped those players would be more, but they just weren't. Was all in our heads.
 
UK-chulo said:
I'd say he didn't have the pieces. We may have hoped those players would be more, but they just weren't. Was all in our heads.
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SGA was a bonafide star by the end of the year. Knox was a good 2nd option and PJ had grown into a very good player too.

Problem was the supporting cast..Richards, Sacha, and Wenyen were the only other post options. If Vanderbilt is healthy, and we saw how good he was when he was healthy for a bit. Richards was a no show and Sacha was Sacha...

Then the guard issue was depth and shooting. SGA could score and was an efficient shooter, but he only took good 3's and wasn't a sniper by any means. Your left with only Quade and Hami as the only other guards. Adding another body in Baker and a good shooter/defender adds a bit more depth to a team with only 3 guards.

Vanderbilt
Washington
Knox
Hami
SGA

Wenyen, Quade, Baker, Sacha, and Richards as a bench looks much tougher. Vanderbilt's post presence and passing ability would've added a 4th really good player. No time to build chemistry...no upperclassman....and depth was non-existent due to injury. A full roster and that team is way better.
 
Well I hope he can do something and not turn the ball over. We'll see, I don't know about this class. Cal gets these meh 5 Star recruits but now with the past 2 years we are seeing some 4 star oh boy. He has a lot of pressure to run the offense. It's not like KU, Nova , UNC, Duke where they return players that are good.
 
The 2018 team needed a healthy Vanderbilt to be true contender. If he would have been available in the tourney, we probably make the Final Four.

G Gilgeous-Alexander (6’6)
G Diallo(6’6)
F Knox(6’9)
F Washington(6’7)
F Vanderbilt(6’9)

That length would have been hard to match up with. No shooting, though. A healthy Vanderbilt gets us past KSU and Illinois-Chicago, IMHO.

It might have been able to get past Michigan as well. Nova probably beats us for the title.
 
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