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To Those Saying Next Year Isn't a Sweet 16 Team Now...

AGEE11

AGEE11

Junior
Jan 10, 2014
3,222
6,657
113
Ullis
Briscoe
Matthews
Poythress
Skal

Lee
Hawkins
Willis


I need to see at least 16 teams with a better 8 man rotation....

For those saying NIT, I need to see 64...


This is not a dominant team, but CBB is going down in talent majorly next year. They will take their lumps and get in to the tourney as a 2-3 seed maybe even a 1 (who in the SEC is better?)

This team right now will be a team that can play with anyone next year. Add a few more pieces and look out.

They are not as good as this year or 2012, or 2010, but they only have to beat the teams the are against, and there are not many great ones next year.
 
Where are our shooters?
Who backs up Skal when he gets in foul trouble or gets tired?
Does Lee learn how to actually shoot and make FTs over the summer?
Where is the bench? Hawkins and Willis? They got cigar minutes and now they are the bench?

If you need proof to know that is not a top caliber UK team, not sure what to tell you.

Need a few more bullets for the gun before that team is considered a threat, IMO.
 
Originally posted by ukbob:
Where are our shooters?
Who backs up Skal when he gets in foul trouble or gets tired?
Does Lee learn how to actually shoot and make FTs over the summer?
Where is the bench? Hawkins and Willis? They got cigar minutes and now they are the bench?

If you need proof to know that is not a top caliber UK team, not sure what to tell you.

Need a few more bullets for the gun before that team is considered a threat, IMO.
Click to expand...
Can't really argue with much of this at all. I don't think Cal is done and he, himself, mentioned that he would like to add 2-3 more guys to the team so we'll have to wait to see what the final roster looks like. We haven't been getting much in the way of encouraging news regarding the top recruits still left but I'm still hoping that we can get at least a couple of them at positions we need. I think ukbob covered our needs very well so no need for me to repeat where we still need help. Just don't really agree with the OP that the roster we have today is strong enough to take us very far. And, it looks really bad if we were to get hit by the injury bug again as it seems pretty thin to me.
 
I don't understand our fans sometimes. Why can't we rightfully tell it like it is? We are down next year. There is no denying it. Unless we get about three more studs, this team isn't a Final Four team in the slightest.
 
Hood and Willis are not the same type of player. Willis is more athletic and has proven he can compete at this level on the Bahamas trip. He isn't going to be the go to guy but he could easily grow into the solid role player Miller was his Junior and Senior year. For someone to discount Hawkins is also short sighted. Hawkins may not have played as much this past season (although he looked solid in the games he did play). But he contributed majorly in the 2014 run and was a big part in the turn around of that season. If he can make teams respect him from 15 ft and out then he will see major minutes due to defense and energy. Quickness and energy go a long way. Teams have done more with less.


We may be use to having teams loaded with 5 star talent but our current roster is the mix of 5 star and role players that every other top 10 team not named UK or Duke has been working with the past 5 years.
 
People overlook Hawk and Willis because they've been buried on teams with historical amounts of talent. Those same people shoot down any good comments because "it's only because they are from KY" blah blah
 
Originally posted by ukbob:
Where are our shooters?
Who backs up Skal when he gets in foul trouble or gets tired?
Does Lee learn how to actually shoot and make FTs over the summer?
Where is the bench? Hawkins and Willis? They got cigar minutes and now they are the bench?

If you need proof to know that is not a top caliber UK team, not sure what to tell you.

Need a few more bullets for the gun before that team is considered a threat, IMO.
Click to expand...
OP didn't say this team doesn't have warts or that it'll win the championship. He said name 16 teams that are better. I agree with him there aren't. Great post OP.
 
I agree this team is Sweet 16 quality, especially in a down year. If they can get 2 more elite players then another Final 4 is easily within reach.
 
There are a ton of unanswered questions with the roster we have right now- I'll give you that, but I tend to side more with the OP on this argument. I don't know about a contender as of yet, but yea- there won't be 16 teams better than us. We still will have a lot of talent and a top notch PG.

Hawk and Willis can PLAY period! I don't care what anyone says. They are very good players that just haven't gotten much of a chance (more so with Willis). I think people forget that Hawkins played quite a bit in the previous season and was instrumental in us winning a few games - not to mention played a lot in the tourney and FF. It's not like the kid has no experience.

We'll be better than most think IMO and we're aren't done with recruiting anyways....there's no way we are.
 
I agree with the OP. People here act like Hawkins and Willis are garbage, and shouldn't play anything but spot minutes, then they turn around and bitch about not having 3 and 4 year role players. Well, we sure as hell aren't getting role players if they never get off the bench and play. As the roster stands right now, they have a lot of talent and a lot of experience.

Senior- Poythress
Juniors- Lee, Hawkins, and Willis
Sophomore- Ulis
Freshmen- Labissiere, Matthews, and Briscoe

Sure, they could use another big and a shooter, but what team couldn't? People act like in order to be a contending team you can't have any weaknesses. Well, sorry to burst your bubble but pretty much every team has a weakness. This team is good enough to make the Sweet 16/Elite 8, and you never what is going to happen after that. no one thought they had a chance in 2014 and they made the championship game. Everyone thought they'd win it all this year, and they didn't even make it as far as the previous year.
 
I don't know, I actually like what we currently have at the moment. I would very much like to see us grab someone like Newman to really add firepower. If you look around at the top teams, from this past season, everyone is losing a lot. At this point I don't care about the regular season. You can lose 11 games and still end up a FF team, just got to peak at the right time. I could see this being like 2011 where we struggle some early but turn it on come the end of the season.

In short I'm content with what we have, but would be happy to see us grab 2 of the remaing recruits.
 
Originally posted by ukbob:
Where are our shooters?
Who backs up Skal when he gets in foul trouble or gets tired?
Does Lee learn how to actually shoot and make FTs over the summer?
Where is the bench? Hawkins and Willis? They got cigar minutes and now they are the bench?

If you need proof to know that is not a top caliber UK team, not sure what to tell you.

Need a few more bullets for the gun before that team is considered a threat, IMO.
Click to expand...
Nice job avoiding the OPs questions.

As for your own questions, almost every team has some unsolved questions/issues. Take this year for example:
- who was going to score for UVA
- who was Okafor's backup at Duke when he got tired or in foul trouble
- how would UK players unselfishly put the team ahead of individual goals (minutes & shots)

But I'll play along and answer your questions:
- Where are our shooters? probably not a strength for UK next year, but Ulis did lead our team this year at 43%; Briscoe, Matthews, Willis, & Poythress can make them too
- Who backs up Skal? probably not decided yet, but could be an unsigned player. If not I guess it will be Lee. Defensively he can handle it.
- Lee and FTs? that could be a problem, but Duke had the same problem with Okafor and that turned out ok for them.
Bench? Right now it is a FR (Matthews) and Hawkins & Willis. So what that they got cigar minutes this year. Willis showed he can play in the Bahamas games; and Hawkins got almost 9min/gm as a FR.

Will UK be a favorite for a NC next year, not without adding a couple more good pieces. But they will be a contender with a chance.
This team compares pretty similar to the 11 team that lost in the F4. That team only returned Miller, Liggins, Harrellson, Vargas & Hood; only 2 of whom had played more than mop-up minutes the prior season.
 
Originally posted by AGEE11:
Ullis
Briscoe
Matthews
Poythress
Skal

Lee
Hawkins
Willis


I need to see at least 16 teams with a better 8 man rotation....

For those saying NIT, I need to see 64...


This is not a dominant team, but CBB is going down in talent majorly next year. They will take their lumps and get in to the tourney as a 2-3 seed maybe even a 1 (who in the SEC is better?)

This team right now will be a team that can play with anyone next year. Add a few more pieces and look out.

They are not as good as this year or 2012, or 2010, but they only have to beat the teams the are against, and there are not many great ones next year.
Click to expand...

First of all, the class isn't even done yet. Anyone making predictions needs to just turn their internet off. Ever since the 40-0 shirts were printed before the 13-14 season started we've been more horrible than usual as a collective fanbase with our expectations and "educated" guesses.

Secondly, even if that WAS the way the roster looked and the season was tomorrow, I'd look back on our final 4 team lead by Brandon Knight and Josh freaking Harrellson and realize no matter how the roster looks, it takes just as much luck as it does talent to make it past the round of 32. Trying to figure out what's going to happen can drive you mad. After a year like this where all signs literally pointed to us winning and us not even making it to the championship round, I've learned just to sit back and enjoy the ride. If we get Maker and Newman, cool. If we end up with just that Juco SG Mulder or whatever, that's cool too. I'm sure we're be fine regardless.

And for the one saying we have no shooters, keep in mind Brandon Knight was never known as a dead eye shooter, he was a pure scorer, and Lamb was known as a knockdown mid range gunner, not a bomber from deep
This post was edited on 4/15 4:47 PM by Catzman
 
Would you guys trade this roster for the Butler rosters that made two final fours? Of course not. This team as it stands easily has the talent to make the final 4. These threads are cracking me up.
 
I'll bring this post over from the Mulder thread

Even without any additional signees, this team is better than a 5-7 seed.

There
are four players in the rotation that have extensive NCAA experience
and success (Ulis, Hawkins, Lee, Poythress), and there is top end NBA
Draft lottery talent (Skal, Briscoe). This 8-man rotation would have
FOUR upperclassmen. The 2013 rotation was made up of freshmen (Noel,
WCS, Archie, Poythress), transfers (Harrow and Mays), Wiltjer, an
injured Hood, and Polson. Other than Wiltjer, no one had played real
minutes in an NCAA Tourney game. Only Noel came here as top end NBA
level talent. Mays was a new to the program senior. Harrow had been
around a year, but didnt handle the situation well. Polson was a
walk-on.

We're not having blue/white platoon every year. If that is your standard as far as roster makeup, then stop. There are question marks, sure. Its not a great shooting team, but when has Cal had a truly great shooting team?

This team, as is, can make the Sweet 16 and Elite 8. After that, its a crapshoot.
 
I "guess" you could say Hawkins, Lee, and Poythress have had success. More like they played on some successful teams . They are and will be role players . We need some scorers . Specially at the 2 and 3 positions.
 
As the roster stands? These are all off the top of my head.

Vandy
Florida
Virginia
UNC
Iowa State
Maryland
Villanova
Kansas
Baylor
Michigan State
Arizona
Duke
NCST
Notre Dame
UCLA
Xavier

Very possibly
Louisville
Gonzaga
Georgia

That doesn't even include teams that are better than expected and sleepers.
 
Ahhhh, the patented "college basketball is going to be down next year" post. They never let me down.
Maybe we should maybe start to realize that in this era college basketball is going to appear to be down…. EVERY YEAR.
 
Originally posted by ZaytovenCat:
As the roster stands? These are all off the top of my head.

Vandy
Florida
Virginia
UNC
Iowa State
Maryland
Villanova
Kansas
Baylor
Michigan State
Arizona
Duke
NCST
Notre Dame
UCLA
Xavier

Very possibly
Louisville
Gonzaga
Georgia

That doesn't even include teams that are better than expected and sleepers.
Click to expand...
Love to see an actual side by side breakdown of why those teams are better. Not sure I trust the top of your head.
 
I'm not thinking that UK will be great next year by any means, but I am in complete agreement with the OP.

In that nobody ever wants to name the alternatives. For example whenever somebody bitches about Duke or whoever being in the top 10 with so many losses...but they never name the alternatives.

Or WCS shouldn't have been 1st team AA........ but no mention of who should have been.

Well I guess Zaytoven named some teams above but UL, Florida, Vandy, maybe UGA.......what ? UF is adding 2 top 100 players to their sub.500 team. They won't be much better than this past season

UL is adding a few 4-stars to a team losing their 3 best players. Not too worried about them. Vandy and UGA...for real ? their recruiting is abysmal. But projecting who the top 16 or 25 or whatever teams are isn't even the point. It's the fact that there will be very few, if any, great teams next year along the lines of UK or Duke this past year.

That said, just as we could make the SS or even the FF we could also lose 12 games and go out the first weekend of the NCAA's. You never know. People will act as if they do, but don't trust them.
 
As of right now the roster includes HS all-americans ...Poythress, Lee, Ulis, Briscoe, Skal, Matthews, along with HS all-state players Hawkins and Willis. Also, the possibility of Wynward joing the 2nd semester. that in itself is an NCAA tournament roster, not counting another 2 or 3 who may join in the next week or so.
 
I wish people would quit quoting Zaytoven Cat...it a much more enjoyable world when you can pretend he doesnt exist.
 
Originally posted by brdmn22:

no one thought they had a chance in 2014 and they made the championship game.
Click to expand...
That team started the year ranked #1 in the country. They had 7 McDonald's All-Americans, plus WCS - a future lottery pick.


They probably would have won the title if not for the WCS injury. They were absolutely loaded, and to start the year, mostly everyone expected them to find a way to the Final Four. The talent that UK currently possesses isn't even on the same level - not in the least. This UK team needs a stud wing and another banger down low to even have a chance at sniffing the Final Four.
 
Originally posted by AGEE11:
Ullis
Briscoe
Matthews
Poythress
Skal

Lee
Hawkins
Willis


I need to see at least 16 teams with a better 8 man rotation....

For those saying NIT, I need to see 64...


This is not a dominant team, but CBB is going down in talent majorly next year. They will take their lumps and get in to the tourney as a 2-3 seed maybe even a 1 (who in the SEC is better?)

This team right now will be a team that can play with anyone next year. Add a few more pieces and look out.

They are not as good as this year or 2012, or 2010, but they only have to beat the teams the are against, and there are not many great ones next year.
Click to expand...
Like your positive attitude but you're dreaming if you think you can be a 2 or 3 seed with just that group. It would take a couple of very talented pieces to make that happen.
 
Originally posted by Aike:

Originally posted by ZaytovenCat:
As the roster stands? These are all off the top of my head.

Vandy
Florida
Virginia
UNC
Iowa State
Maryland
Villanova
Kansas
Baylor
Michigan State
Arizona
Duke
NCST
Notre Dame
UCLA
Xavier

Very possibly
Louisville
Gonzaga
Georgia

That doesn't even include teams that are better than expected and sleepers.
Click to expand...
Love to see an actual side by side breakdown of why those teams are better. Not sure I trust the top of your head.
Click to expand...
Vandy - Should be a top 5 SEC team but not better than UK . Do not have a player that we can't mach up with.

Florida- Coming off a losing season. Best player enters the draft. No impact signees.

Virginia - Top 10 team but lost best player to draft. Have yet to be a factor in the tourney.

UNC - Likley preseason #1

Iowa ST.- Nice squad returning probably top 10

Maryland - Big 10 favorite.

Nova- Lost Pinkston. Lots of talented guards. Gimmick offense.

Kansas - Should be a good Kansa team but not a great one.

Baylor - Lost PG Cherry. Yet to be determined how good they will be.

Mich St. - Has one player(Valentine) that would start for UK.

Arizona - Lost top 4 scorers from last season. No Skal level recruits.

Duke - Lost top 4 players. No depth. Without Thornton, not sure this is a top 20 team.

NC State - Could have been an ACC title contender but Lacey entered today.

Notre Dame - Lost top 2 players. No impact recruits. Won't be near as good as last season.

UCLA - Team barely made the tourney and lost 3 of top 4 players. Signed no high imact recruits(yet)

Xavier - Probably should have picked Witchita St if you were going to include a mid-major.


Not enough legit teams on this list to bump UK out of the top 10.
 
Originally posted by JasonSpear:
I don't know why anyone would think next year's team isn't a Sweet 16 team RIGHT NOW. The roster isn't a title contender, but I'd project em as a Sweet 16 team, tops.
Click to expand...
What if we are say a 4 seed, and we got, say, the 8 seed in the sweet 16 game rather than the one seed? And what if we got say a 7 seed in the regional final rather than the 2?
 
Originally posted by Son_Of_Saul:
Originally posted by brdmn22:

no one thought they had a chance in 2014 and they made the championship game.
Click to expand...
That team started the year ranked #1 in the country. They had 7 McDonald's All-Americans, plus WCS - a future lottery pick.


They probably would have won the title if not for the WCS injury. They were absolutely loaded, and to start the year, mostly everyone expected them to find a way to the Final Four. The talent that UK currently possesses isn't even on the same level - not in the least. This UK team needs a stud wing and another banger down low to even have a chance at sniffing the Final Four.
Click to expand...
See, that's just hyperbole. Another stud wing and a banger down low and we become a FF favorite, not a team with "a chance at sniffing the Final Four."
 
Originally posted by ZaytovenCat:
As the roster stands? These are all off the top of my head.

Vandy
Florida
Virginia
UNC
Iowa State
Maryland
Villanova
Kansas
Baylor
Michigan State
Arizona
Duke
NCST
Notre Dame
UCLA
Xavier

Very possibly
Louisville
Gonzaga
Georgia

That doesn't even include teams that are better than expected and sleepers.
Click to expand...
I'll give you a pass on Florida, considering them going 16-17 was more of an anomaly, but Vandy and a Georgia team losing Thornton, Djurisic, and adding no recruit higher than a three star? Step away from the computer, dude, you're drunk.
 
Originally posted by Fawrules:

Originally posted by ZaytovenCat:
As the roster stands? These are all off the top of my head.

Vandy
Florida
Virginia
UNC
Iowa State
Maryland
Villanova
Kansas
Baylor
Michigan State
Arizona
Duke
NCST
Notre Dame
UCLA
Xavier

Very possibly
Louisville
Gonzaga
Georgia

That doesn't even include teams that are better than expected and sleepers.
Click to expand...
I'll give you a pass on Florida, considering them going 16-17 was more of an anomaly, but Vandy and a Georgia team losing Thornton, Djurisic, and adding no recruit higher than a three star? Step away from the computer, dude, you're drunk.
Click to expand...
He is drunk 100% of the time then because he posts stupid crap like this daily man.

This team is a big ? mark to me though right now. Talent wise, they are definitely not bowing down to anyone, but it will be important to see how they come together as a team and such. UK is going to add 2-3 more players though so this thread is kinda a moot point anyways. I think at present though Sweet 16 would be as good a guess as any for this team, but as I said, soon to be a moot point.
 
This has been a really fun read this morning. Posted this last night when I had to head to church and haven't been back on until this morning.

I posted this because there were at least 20 different threads that were devolving into "We will be bad" or "NIT year again". I wanted to have a thread where someone could prove to me there were better teams than UK.

This thread to me has been great, but also established something. Except maybe Carolina and Maryland, no one can give specifics how we are not a top 10 team.

This is what message boards are for, fun debate.

Before I go to work, a little devil's advocate. The 2013 team was a preseason top 5 if my memory serves me correct... That team started the three year injury run UK has had. I don't think this team will have that happen, and we know this point guard can handle the UK pressure.

Thanks to everyone.
 
Originally posted by UKWildcats#8:

Originally posted by Fawrules:

Originally posted by ZaytovenCat:
As the roster stands? These are all off the top of my head.
Vandy
Georgia
Click to expand...
I'll give you a pass on Florida, considering them going 16-17 was more of an anomaly, but Vandy and a Georgia team losing Thornton, Djurisic, and adding no recruit higher than a three star? Step away from the computer, dude, you're drunk.
Click to expand...
He is drunk 100% of the time then because he posts stupid crap like this daily man.
Click to expand...
Vandy returns their everybody except Siakim. That same Vandy team played us well and only lost by 8 in Rupp. They will be much improved while we won't be anywhere near as good as last year. Damion Jones and LaChance would start for us with our current roster. Jones would start regardless. UGA lost two key guys but also returned quite a few good players. They land Brown and they could easily beat us and be a top 25 team. In case yall forgot, we lost more than anybody.
 
5 completley brand new starters man. That's all that needs to be said. There's a reason so many fans were disappointed we didn't win it all this year. We're losing our top 7 players. Everyone is going to be out for revenge next year as well. Some of you are going to be in for a RUDE, RUDE awakening next year, I'm warning you right now.

We needed to win the title this year brother, because next year is going to be an 8-10 loss (plus) season. We blew it this year. I know we want to tell ourselves we'll have just as good of a chance next year as sort of a coping mechanism to deal with the historic failure we just experienced, but it's just not true. Next year is going to be an Archie Goodwin-frustrating type season. That team had a lot of talented guys just like next year's team will have, but a bunch of young talented guys with virtually no experience and no standout dominant player are hard to win at a high level with.
 
I didn't read every word, but pretty funny. They gonna pull this and jack that... but none of you have a clue - don't even know the teams yet, and you are spurting shit(dumb ass shit - watch out fer that yeller stuff). So many don't have a clue here....

I don't have a clue, but I sure don't try and play one off.

Someone should say: You know you are a dumb ass if, you evaluate a team before you know the players.
Originally posted by AGEE11:
This has been a really fun read
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by swflCAT:
I didn't read every word, but pretty funny. They gonna pull this and jack that... but none of you have a clue - don't even know the teams yet, and you are spurting shit(dumb ass shit - watch out fer that yeller stuff). So many don't have a clue here....

I don't have a clue, but I sure don't try and play one off.

Someone should say: You know you are a dumb ass if, you evaluate a team before you know the players.

You all need to read this post over and over again.

None of us have ANY idea what the final roster will look like when practice starts for the 2015-16 season.

Discussion is fine, but, some on here calling for a NIT year or worse is laughable. Vandy will be an "okay" team, but, they are not in UK's class, even if our roster adds no more players. Some need to go to bed and sleep it off!!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I thank UK will be fine next yr, Ullis was the best shooter on the floor last yr from 3 pt. Poy will have a break out yr, Lee can be another WCS , Skal is the No.1 mock draft pick for 2016, Briscoe and Matthews can flat play, Willis has not had a chance to prove himself but can flat shoot the 3, Hawkins has played a lot the last couple yrs..add another couple good players and this team can go far..
 
Our point guards and #1 overall player, SKAL, would be enough to make a run. Guards win tourneys and our two guards got heavy skill with the ball especially Briscoe. We have not had a ball handler such as him in one vs one situations. His handle and dribble moves are best ive seen in awhile. The way he did Blakeney last night......the boy can get to that rim on ANYBODY.
 
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