To me the best player to ever play for Kentucky was Jamal Mashburn..

[Cowtown Cat]

Davis will always be the best. He won every award possible and led us to a national title in only 1 season. He was the consensus player of the year and a number 1 pick. He's now a top 5-10 player in the NBA and is only 24 years old.

Mashburn was amazing for his time and did great things for the program and is an all time great to play here..but nowhere near as dominant a force as AD.

Quick question - Bagley or AD?! Bagley the best prospect in ten or fifteen years my aching ass. No brainer - 18 year old AD would straight up handle that dude. Point blank period.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I'm going with either Big Dan or AD. Has to be one of those two, IMO.

 

[Blue Decade]

I know there was many great ones but the monster mash was special.

A lot of special players have played basketball for UK. Mashburn was a very good 1, and I enjoyed watching him play. But to call him the best Wildcat ever is a stretch. Cliff Hagan, Frank Ramsey, Pat Riley, Dan Issel were All Americans who had long professional careers. John Wall was the overall #1 NBA draft choice and is now an NBA all star. Anthony Davis and Karl Towns were both overall #1 NBA draft choice and are already among the best players in the NBA. Even Eric Bledsoe, Rajon Rondo have had more impressive NBA careers than Mash had. Not to diminish Mash in any way since he was a great All American. But we have had so many All Americans.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

To start: (IMO)

1. Less outside shooting today than during Issel's day, especially mid-range shooting.
2. In the same vein, the dunk has taken over. Obviously that requires less skill than size.
3. Today's players are allowed to do things with the ball that would have resulted in a turnover in Issel's day. During the play-offs, on multiple occasions, I saw LeBron get the ball in back-court and take a couple of steps before he decided to dribble. Camping under the basket; carrying the ball, etc... That crap would not have been allowed.
4. The game is much more physical now. Too much grabbing, pushing, shoving, etc... In Issel's day, fouls were called for that type play. ****And this is the problem with today's officiating. There is no longer a definite standard governing physical play, thus lots of inconsistency relative to officiating.

Today's players are better athletes, but they don't have the basketball skills players had in Issel's day. On the other hand, a player like Dan Issel would be just as successful in the nba today as he was when he played. He'd adapt.

This could not be more true. Although I'm not a fan of John Wooden, he actually predicted this after he retired. He felt that American Basketball needed to get back to fundamentals and stop trying to make the spectacular play. Another element lacking in today's game is the mid-range jump shot. For those that remember Bob Macadoo, he was one of the best. Today's game has turned into a hackfest and it's no fun to watch. When's the last time one can recall a NBA game that there wasn't a foul every trip down the court?

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

I saw Issel play several times. Was he the best Kentucky player ever? Yes, in the context of his time, he was better than Mashburn or Davis were in the context of their times. It's like the Babe Ruth argument. If you want to claim Babe couldn't have hit relievers like Arnoldis Chapman, fine. But clearly he was the greatest of all time by the only criteria possible.

The game has certainly evolved but there were certain players in Issel's era that could've played today, and he was one of them. Others would be Artis Gilmore, Lew Alcindor (before he changed to Jabbar), Austin Carr, Elvin Hayes and Spencer Haywood, just to name a few.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

Pistol Pete<<<<<<< Peyton Siva

Thanks for the laugh. Pete could play with anyone back then or today.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

Agreed! Also if Casey had not broken his leg there may well have been another banner hanging. That was a formidable team even without Casey. Different era though, hard to compare with the althlete of today.

Casey, prior to his injury, had skills strongly similar to Jerry West. Quick first step, great shooter but could drive the lane with the best of them. Saw him play in person at Memorial in 1971 and he was good but nothing like he was prior to the injury.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

As I said earlier, you can use whatever criteria you want. I use their time spent at UK to determine the best player ever at Kentucky. If you feel like using his first 3 years in the NBA to show how good he would have been at UK, then that is the criteria you use.

Issel did play against guys like Charlie Scott (5 time ABA/NBA All-Star) and Artis Gilmore (HOF'er). He went for 19 and 9 against Scott and 28 and 10 against Gilmore.

I'm not sensationalizing anything (I was born in 1976). Personally (I am not telling you what you can and can't use), I always look at how good guys were in their respective eras too. IMO, there is zero debate in how good the college game was in the late 60's and early 90's compared to 2012. College basketball is a joke compared to what it used to be. 25 years ago, a guy like AD would have stayed 3 or 4 years...just like Shaq and Mourning did. Or in the late 60's, when Alcindor and Unseld stayed at their respective schools through their senior year.

I would have loved to see a freshman AD go up against Boogie as a junior. Instead, we got to see him go up against Thomas Robinson, Jared Sullinger and Tyler Zeller. That is the part that is always the debate when this topic comes up.

I think it's Issel, you think it's AD....they are both great choices.

BTW, I don't think you're being rude...it's a good debate/discussion to have.

People forget that Issel had to go up against two 7 footers against Jacksonville; Gilmore and Pembrook Burrows. He fouled out with 10:16 to go in the game and still had 28 points and 10 rebounds. I can recall him using the head fake to great success in that game.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

Having never seen Issel play I have to wonder why he never did well in the tournament? To me tournament success matters when discussing the goat at a place like Kentucky.

By that criteria you could make an argument for guys like Nazr Mohammed, who had two rings. Yeah, Issel played so poorly in the tournament that he only had 44 against Notre Dame and 28 against Jacksonville and fouled out with over 10 minutes to go.

 

[Hangar1]

I know there was many great ones but the monster mash was special.

I think Frank Ramsey or Dan Issel should rate near the top but guess that was too long ago.

 

[WCSPlayedWRInHS]

By that criteria you could make an argument for guys like Nazr Mohammed, who had two rings. Yeah, Issel played so poorly in the tournament that he only had 44 against Notre Dame and 28 against Jacksonville and fouled out with over 10 minutes to go.

people just love to argue on here. Show me where I said tournament success is ALL that matters. Good luck finding that because I never said it.

 

[melvinm]

The best is questionable because there have been so many special players (Issel, Wall, Macy, Given). However, I think under the circumstances, he was absolutely the most important player ever given the circumstances.

 

[kyjeff1]

The best is questionable because there have been so many special players (Issel, Wall, Macy, Given). However, I think under the circumstances, he was absolutely the most important player ever given the circumstances.

He who?

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

people just love to argue on here. Show me where I said tournament success is ALL that matters. Good luck finding that because I never said it.

That's pretty much what you implied.

 

[ColonelCat]

Davis will always be the best. He won every award possible and led us to a national title in only 1 season. He was the consensus player of the year and a number 1 pick. He's now a top 5-10 player in the NBA and is only 24 years old.

Mashburn was amazing for his time and did great things for the program and is an all time great to play here..but nowhere near as dominant a force as AD.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This AD was the best--imo..

 

[smooth as butter]

Mashburn was the best all around player to ever play at Kentucky.

 

[WCSPlayedWRInHS]

That's pretty much what you implied.

...no it isn't. I didn't imply anything. I said tournament success should play a factor at a place like Kentucky when deciding the goat. If it was all that matters I would just say Wayne turner is our goat. But I didn't say that. Again, people just love to argue on here.

 

[KeepingItReal74]

Mashburn was the best all around player to ever play at Kentucky.

Mash had what forwards today don't, supreme midrange game.

 

[JonathanW]

There is only one answer. If a player is the all time leader in scoring and rebounding that's the end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.
Big Dan was one of the most unstoppable players to ever play college basketball and that continued on into the professional ranks where he ended up as the 10th all time leading scorer in the ABA/ NBA.

I'm not saying it isn't Issel, nor it is Issel. But I don't think it is as simple as you say.
Could he be the leading rebounder partly because there were a lot more rebounds available back then, between lower shooting %'s, more shot attempts, and smaller less athletic guards not grabbing many rebounds. Didn't UK have a guy average 15+ (Burrow) rebounds a game back in the late 50's? That isn't even conceivable in today's game. Same kinds of statements can be made about scoring, although Issel didn't have the 3pt shot available like Mashburn did. Both played 3 years, but Issel had the 3rd yr as a SR whereas Mash had the 3rd yr as a FR. On the other hand Issel didn't play in as many games per season as Mashburn.

I'm just saying there are a lot of factors to consider, and you can't make it as simple as #1 scorer & #1 rebounder = best.
I think we have all agreed who those top 3 are, and there are valid arguments for each one.

 

[2Adulterers]

I know there was many great ones but the monster mash was special.

Issel hands down better than Mashburn

 

[BMONS1977]

There is really nothing to discuss or debate in regards to this topic....It begins and ENDS with...AD.... and it's not even close...not only did AD win every conceivable award there was to win in his freshman season at UK, he also won a national championship, was the number one pick in the NBA draft, and played for the gold-medal Olympics team! He is currently widely considered to be one of the 5 best players on the PLANET...and when his career is over, he will be in the discussions for Greatest PF of all time and Top 10 players TO EVER PLAY THE GAME OF BASKETBALL! To even consider ANYONE ELSE as the Greatest UK player ever is Blasphemy!

 

[Blue Decade]

Mash had what forwards today don't, supreme midrange game.

Some other UK All American forwards with great midrange games. Grevey, Givens, Walker, Mercer. Out of these, Mashburn was the best of the 5 on the offensive board. But overall, it's very difficult to say Mashburn was a better player than Grevey, Hagan, Riley, Issel, Wall, AD, KAT. When I see this kind of a thread, I always wonder about the ages of fans who are so sure that 1 former UK player was the best ever. Over the years, we have had a lot of great All Americans at UK.

 

[Chuckinden]

Too many never saw Dan Issel play. He was the best I ever saw.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

I don't remember big Dan as a cat. I do remember watching him in the pros a little bit. The man could score the basketball.

I can reasonably imagine a score of 198-194 if Mash and the Horse were to play a one on one game of 24 by 4.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

There is really nothing to discuss or debate in regards to this topic....It begins and ENDS with...AD.... and it's not even close...not only did AD win every conceivable award there was to win in his freshman season at UK, he also won a national championship, was the number one pick in the NBA draft, and played for the gold-medal Olympics team! He is currently widely considered to be one of the 5 best players on the PLANET...and when his career is over, he will be in the discussions for Greatest PF of all time and Top 10 players TO EVER PLAY THE GAME OF BASKETBALL! To even consider ANYONE ELSE as the Greatest UK player ever is Blasphemy!

Wrong, you obviously never saw Issel play. Doesn't matter what someone does post-UK it's what happens during their tenure their. It does not begin and end with AD.

 

[MEMEBLUE]

Best of all time,maybe, most important recruit of all time without a doubt.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

Best of all time,maybe, most important recruit of all time without a doubt.

Mashburn was the most important recruit. Actually, he ranks second behind Issel in best all time at UK.

 

[Blue Decade]

Too many never saw Dan Issel play. He was the best I ever saw.

And still the leading scorer in UK basketball history. I think Dan averaged 30 ppg 1 season.

 

[Calsarmy]

Maybe not the best but THE MOST IMPORTANT PLAYER to ever come to UK because of the timing.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

And still the leading scorer in UK basketball history. I think Dan averaged 30 ppg 1 season.

His senior season he averaged 34 ppg; as a junior 27 and 16 as a sophomore. Still the all-time leading scorer.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

Maybe not the best but THE MOST IMPORTANT PLAYER to ever come to UK because of the timing.

Yes, had he not come to UK we would've been down for who knows how long.

 

[bfawns]

I've been watching U K basketball AVIDLY since 1957 and Dan Issel was the most dominant player to ever wear the uniform!!!! I was at the game where we lost to Jacksonville with Artis Gilmore. We had the best team in the tournament but they fouled Dan out on a very unorthodox play. Also the fact that Mike Casey was in a car wreck before his senior year had a profound effect on that team. Mike was the best player on the team when they were freshmen but Dan passed him up and kept on going.
Dan was the best in my lifetime and I've seen them all!

 

[Estil]

I know there was many great ones but the monster mash was special.

Well yes but the best UK player ever? Even better than Dan Issel? Even better than the Fab Five (the real Fab Five, our Fab Five of '48)???

 

[KeepingItReal74]

Mashburn was the most important recruit. Actually, he ranks second behind Issel in best all time at UK.

I already said this.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

I've been watching U K basketball AVIDLY since 1957 and Dan Issel was the most dominant player to ever wear the uniform!!!! I was at the game where we lost to Jacksonville with Artis Gilmore. We had the best team in the tournament but they fouled Dan out on a very unorthodox play. Also the fact that Mike Casey was in a car wreck before his senior year had a profound effect on that team. Mike was the best player on the team when they were freshmen but Dan passed him up and kept on going.
Dan was the best in my lifetime and I've seen them all!

100% without a doubt. No other player comes remotely close to Issel's accomplishments. Yes, the team was really the best in the tournament even without Casey.

 

[Big Foot 275]

I'm not saying it isn't Issel, nor it is Issel. But I don't think it is as simple as you say.
Could he be the leading rebounder partly because there were a lot more rebounds available back then, between lower shooting %'s, more shot attempts, and smaller less athletic guards not grabbing many rebounds. Didn't UK have a guy average 15+ (Burrow) rebounds a game back in the late 50's? That isn't even conceivable in today's game. Same kinds of statements can be made about scoring, although Issel didn't have the 3pt shot available like Mashburn did. Both played 3 years, but Issel had the 3rd yr as a SR whereas Mash had the 3rd yr as a FR. On the other hand Issel didn't play in as many games per season as Mashburn.

I'm just saying there are a lot of factors to consider, and you can't make it as simple as #1 scorer & #1 rebounder = best.
I think we have all agreed who those top 3 are, and there are valid arguments for each one.

Issel's senior team shot a higher percentage than AD's team and Mashburn's junior team. The opponents of Issel's teams also shot a higher percentage than the AD and Mash teams so there would have been less opportunities to rebound. The Davis team actually had more attempts than Big Dan or the Mash team. Just a one year comparison but that makes Issel's records even more impressive.

 

[hotelblue]

every thread the op has ever done is the same. they predict something overly debatable that force the curbing of a significant uk player's aura.

who cares that he never responds unless it's to bump the thread. who cares that he's not even a fan. but for god's sake why some of you entertain this carefully worded bs is beyond me. he knows nothing about jamal mashburn. where does he mention any part of his game? where does he talk about the skills of ANY of the players he emphatically ranks??