Time warner

[DDS62]

Just got the monthly bill from Time Warner today and noticed another increase in their fees. This year (happens every year like clockwork) it is 10%. Also noticed in the paper yesterday that Time Warner made the list of profitable corporations that paid no income tax.

My complaint with the cable companies is that they are awarded exclusive territories via the local governments throughout the nation, eliminating competition, and they lobby the FCC to the term of hundreds of millions of dollars (paid for by their customers) per year for the purpose of prohibiting individual program sales, making you and I pay for channels we simply do not want and never watch. It makes the term Free Enterprise a joke. On top of those major flaws in our system they take air time for themselves for their own commercials at no costs and provide mostly, save ESPN and a few other cable channels, worthless entertainment.

Time Warner paid $ZERO Federal Income tax, yet received a $26 million rebate on profits of $4.3 billion. It is hard to understand why America puts up with this kind of favoritism, but indeed it has become a part of our culture.

 

[catfanbrad]

Got my bill today as well. I only have my internet through them. I'll definitely be looking at cheaper options.

 

[2blue4u]

 

[throatpoker]

my bill is exactly the same. they only raise the people who are out of their 1 year guarantee. i was in the same boat as you last year, bill increase every year. then i finally got sick of it. i called and told them my bill goes up every year, either lower it or i am cutting everything off. they improved my package (all sports channels added), increased my internet speed to the highest tier and also lowered my bill $10 per month. it's not a contract, i can cancel any time, but i was guaranteed the price for a year. it's up soon, so i'll be cutting off everything but internet if they don't lower it again or keep me at the same rate.

 

[throatpoker]

also, when i was bitching to the guy on the phone, he even told me "when this is up, just call back next year and we'll work something out".

 

[catfanbrad]

Originally posted by throatpoker:
also, when i was bitching to the guy on the phone, he even told me "when this is up, just call back next year and we'll work something out".

Thanks for the info, I'll be calling them tomorrow.

 

[DDS62]

Anybody care to comment?

 

[Ron Mehico]

Originally posted by DDS62:
Anybody care to comment?

On how awful cable is? No, I don't. I switched to DISH like 5 years ago. Don't really even understand why people have cable still.

This post was edited on 4/12 7:24 PM by Ron Mehico

 

[LadyCat92]

Call and ask to speak to "customer retention". Don't even bother with anyone else.

 

[DDS62]

Originally posted by Ron Mehico:

Originally posted by DDS62:
Anybody care to comment?

On how awful cable is? No, I don't. I switched to DISH like 5 years ago. Don't really even understand why people have cable still.

This post was edited on 4/12 7:24 PM by Ron Mehico

If you are sitting in a crowded city with tall buildings, or in back of a tree covered hill and can't get a look at the satelite you really don't havre much choice other than cable, if available. Also there are neighborhoods that limit the type and placement of the receiving dish on your home to the point of making the installation of the dish impractical. And on a side note, if you search back through the records of those cities that have such restrictions you likely will find a cable company sympatthizer played a big part in implementing those restrictions. They have" cable boards" in almost every city that do nothing except collect a check and protect the cable companie's intrest, while discusing themselves as representatives of the people.

 

[The_Catfather]

Yeah, if you're not calling to complain regularly and demanding a lower bill, you're doing it wrong. They have a separate department that specializes in promotions. Every year when I notice the increase, I call and bitch, and it ends up being around the same as the year before. Maybe even a bit lower.

I ordered the MLB Extra Innings package this year. As soon as something inevitably screws up with it, I'll be calling to rain fire upon them. I figure I'll get it discounted by October.

 

[DSmith21]

I agree that it is a pain in the butt to have to call them once a year to renegotiate your bill. All you have to do is mention the magic phrase "AT&T Uverse" and they will give you their best deal.

Can't go along with the bitch about taxes though. TW pays all kinds of taxes (state, local, property, payroll, etc.). Just because they have enough deductions (like depreciation, r&d credits, etc.) to lower their federal income tax to zero doesn't make them bad.

Constantly raising your bill, providing crappy service, making you buy packages of channels that you don't want just to get ESPN, those are valid reasons to hate Time Warner.

 

[DDS62]

Originally posted by DSmith21:
I agree that it is a pain in the butt to have to call them once a year to renegotiate your bill. All you have to do is mention the magic phrase "AT&T Uverse" and they will give you their best deal.

Can't go along with the bitch about taxes though. TW pays all kinds of taxes (state, local, property, payroll, etc.). Just because they have enough deductions (like depreciation, r&d credits, etc.) to lower their federal income tax to zero doesn't make them bad.

Constantly raising your bill, providing crappy service, making you buy packages of channels that you don't want just to get ESPN, those are valid reasons to hate Time Warner.

My understanding is that Time Warner did not have 4.5 + Billion dollars worth of deductions, that was the profit after US deductions. In fact common sense would suggest otherwise. And don't forget, not only did thet pay nothing, they also got a refund of 26 million, meaning they filed as a company that showed more losses than (USA earned) profit. I have not been privy to their tax filings, so I am only guesing, but I would assumet heir methods of avoiding taxes are the same as the other tax avoidance corporations (and they are legion) use of assigning profit to foreign born companies and diverting earnings through off shore accounts. Both of those methods are legal as long as you don't try and hide it on your tax form, hence the startling profit numbers with no tax assigned. If you have any information on this subject please respond. And I hope you do have some solid information that would show that indeed Time warner did not use any of those un American tax avoidance tactics, because if you don't, you then are one of the many voters that rationalize these practices as normal and become one of the enablers that allow it to continue.

 

[fuzz77]

Originally posted by Ron Mehico:

Originally posted by DDS62:
Anybody care to comment?

On how awful cable is? No, I don't. I switched to DISH like 5 years ago. Don't really even understand why people have cable still.

This post was edited on 4/12 7:24 PM by Ron Mehico

The Dish/Directv are do different than TWC/Comcast/AT&T and other cable providers...and cable doesn't go out when it rains. They all buy their programming from the same place... I currently have Directv and will probably switch back to cable once my contract expires but the decision to do so is no different than deciding what brand of television, laptop or automobile to buy. There is no right or wrong answer. For the most part for $X you get about the same thing. For programming providers it's which programming package do you like best. Hell, for us it has come down to a kid's programming channel that the grandkids want that Dish doesn't offer, Directv offers it but only on their next to highest tier meaning I've got to pay for a lot of crap I don't want to have it...cable has it on their standard package.

DDS, as per your suggestion that you only pay for the channels you watch...if you watch sports and everyone was allowed to only pay for what they watched then your bill would probably go up. Truth is that the non-sports watching public subsidizes those of us who do watch sports. From where do you think the million$/billion$ that the SEC Network will payout to member schools will come??? Of course you and everyone else is subsidizing the Big Ten Network(and the SECN) too.

The median wholesale cost that cable/satellite companies pay per channel is about 14 cents/channel. ESPN is $6.04...it is expected to go to over $8 by 2018. ESPN2 is only 74 cents. Of course they also charge us for the local broadcast channels that you could get for free if you had an antenna. Probably only 20-25% of households watch ESPN so if those who didn't watch were allowed to drop it ESPN's rate would shoot to $20-$30!

 

[DSmith21]

Originally posted by DDS62:

Originally posted by DSmith21:
I agree that it is a pain in the butt to have to call them once a year to renegotiate your bill. All you have to do is mention the magic phrase "AT&T Uverse" and they will give you their best deal.

Can't go along with the bitch about taxes though. TW pays all kinds of taxes (state, local, property, payroll, etc.). Just because they have enough deductions (like depreciation, r&d credits, etc.) to lower their federal income tax to zero doesn't make them bad.

Constantly raising your bill, providing crappy service, making you buy packages of channels that you don't want just to get ESPN, those are valid reasons to hate Time Warner.

My understanding is that Time Warner did not have 4.5 + Billion dollars worth of deductions, that was the profit after US deductions. In fact common sense would suggest otherwise. And don't forget, not only did thet pay nothing, they also got a refund of 26 million, meaning they filed as a company that showed more losses than (USA earned) profit. I have not been privy to their tax filings, so I am only guesing, but I would assumet heir methods of avoiding taxes are the same as the other tax avoidance corporations (and they are legion) use of assigning profit to foreign born companies and diverting earnings through off shore accounts. Both of those methods are legal as long as you don't try and hide it on your tax form, hence the startling profit numbers with no tax assigned. If you have any information on this subject please respond. And I hope you do have some solid information that would show that indeed Time warner did not use any of those un American tax avoidance tactics, because if you don't, you then are one of the many voters that rationalize these practices as normal and become one of the enablers that allow it to continue.

Your guess that Time Warner is using foreign holding companies to avoid taxes is wrong. According to this article railing against "Corporate welfare", Time Warner is taking deductions for losses incurred in the merger with AOL which was a financial disaster. They got a refund because their tax loss exceeded their book profit. The excess loss is then carried back to other prior years in which they paid tax in order to claim a refund.

There is nothing wrong with tax avoidance (trying to limit your liability through tax planing via legal means). Do you contribute to an IRA or 401k to take advantage of their tax advantaged status? How about paying for health care expenses using pre-tax dollars via a health savings account. If you do, then you are wisely avoiding tax too. Only tax evasion (using non-legal methods to reduce tax like not reporting income) is a crime.







This post was edited on 4/13 11:15 AM by DSmith21

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/551168/10_of_the_biggest_corporate_tax_cheats_in_america

 

[DDS62]

Originally posted by DSmith21:

Originally posted by DDS62:

Originally posted by DSmith21:
I agree that it is a pain in the butt to have to call them once a year to renegotiate your bill. All you have to do is mention the magic phrase "AT&T Uverse" and they will give you their best deal.

Can't go along with the bitch about taxes though. TW pays all kinds of taxes (state, local, property, payroll, etc.). Just because they have enough deductions (like depreciation, r&d credits, etc.) to lower their federal income tax to zero doesn't make them bad.

Constantly raising your bill, providing crappy service, making you buy packages of channels that you don't want just to get ESPN, those are valid reasons to hate Time Warner.

My understanding is that Time Warner did not have 4.5 + Billion dollars worth of deductions, that was the profit after US deductions. In fact common sense would suggest otherwise. And don't forget, not only did thet pay nothing, they also got a refund of 26 million, meaning they filed as a company that showed more losses than (USA earned) profit. I have not been privy to their tax filings, so I am only guesing, but I would assumet heir methods of avoiding taxes are the same as the other tax avoidance corporations (and they are legion) use of assigning profit to foreign born companies and diverting earnings through off shore accounts. Both of those methods are legal as long as you don't try and hide it on your tax form, hence the startling profit numbers with no tax assigned. If you have any information on this subject please respond. And I hope you do have some solid information that would show that indeed Time warner did not use any of those un American tax avoidance tactics, because if you don't, you then are one of the many voters that rationalize these practices as normal and become one of the enablers that allow it to continue.

Your guess that Time Warner is using foreign holding companies to avoid taxes is wrong. According to this article railing against "Corporate welfare", Time Warner is taking deductions for losses incurred in the merger with AOL which was a financial disaster. They got a refund because their tax loss exceeded their book profit. The excess loss is then carried back to other prior years in which they paid tax in order to claim a refund.

There is nothing wrong with tax avoidance (trying to limit your liability through tax planing via legal means). Do you contribute to an IRA or 401k to take advantage of their tax advantaged status? How about paying for health care expenses using pre-tax dollars via a health savings account. If you do, then you are wisely avoiding tax too. Only tax evasion (using non-legal methods to reduce tax like not reporting income) is a crime.







This post was edited on 4/13 11:15 AM by DSmith21

DSmith, did you even bother to read the article you made the link to? Yes Time Warner's method of tax avoidance was their AOL aqusition. But this article far from endorses it as a justifiable deduction. Quite the opposite. It paints TW as one of the worst and chronic tax avoiders that have used their investment in AOL for no other reason than to avoid paying tax, and did it without real losses. And yes those investments in Healh Savings accounts, and IRA's are tax avoidance methods, but minor in comparison. They don't amount totally, for every person in the nation that takes such a deduction, the amount of avoidance that Time warner alone takes every year. Furthermore those deductions encourage savings, helps pay medical costs, and in the case of the IRA deductions, the money put aside in IRA accounts must be withdrawn after the age of 70 and tax paid upon withdrawal. To compare those deductions with the Enron accounting methods of Accelerated Depreciation, stock option loopholes, multinational structuring, and offshore tax shelters is a joke that makes most of us average citizens smile and roll our eyes.

 

[qwesley]

Saw this today ironically:

After Google announced it would bring its Fiber Gigabit internet service to Charlotte, NC, Time Warner Cable is fighting back by making its fastest internet service in the region six times faster for no extra cost.

The speed increases per plan tier are as follows:
•Standard: 15Mbps to 50Mbps
•Extreme: 30Mbps to 200Mbps
•Ultimate: 50Mbps to 300Mbps

 

[DSmith21]

DDS62, you say Accelerated Depreciation = Enron accounting. That is just laughable. Congress allows accelerated depreciation to encourage business to invest in equipment for their business. That also helps the economy and promotes jobs. Its not even getting something extra as you are still limited to the actual cost of the equipment. All you are able to do is speed up the recognition of the expense.

You are also wrong that 401k deductions don't add up to much. According to the CBO, 401k plans cost the government over $100 Billion in lost revenue each year. Again, there is nothing wrong with tax avoidance. Here is a favorite quote from Judge Learned Hand, a famous U.S. court of appeals judge.

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
public duty to pay more than the law demands.


This post was edited on 4/13 3:45 PM by DSmith21

 

[Mashburned]

Meanwhile, in good ol' KY we're stuck with this BS. Just infuriates me as I read these articles from trendy places like San Fran...

Hey cutting your cable has never been cooler!!! I can get wimax service in my building for 19.99 with 100mbs!!! Cable sucks!!!! Cut it bro!!! There are soooo many options available today!!!!

...*sigh* one of these days KY, one of these days. For now my only ammunition against TWC is *gulp* AT&T Uverse. TWC would laugh in my face if I tried to use that. I'll try it, though.

 

[Desperado_1955]

Originally posted by The_Catfather:
Yeah, if you're not calling to complain regularly and demanding a lower bill, you're doing it wrong. They have a separate department that specializes in promotions. Every year when I notice the increase, I call and bitch, and it ends up being around the same as the year before. Maybe even a bit lower.

I ordered the MLB Extra Innings package this year. As soon as something inevitably screws up with it, I'll be calling to rain fire upon them. I figure I'll get it discounted by October.

QFT. Had to do that today. Touching bill went up 35 bucks per month from last year. After ten minutes of bitching, they gave me the EXACT same package for five bucks less per month than last year.

 

[bbonds]

That's what I don't understand. When you first call, they tell you your package doesn't exist anymore. Then they try to sell you their phone service. Then, after spending an hour on the hold with them, they manage to find a deal that is actually cheaper than what you had, and even gives you more channels.

I think I will try what the one guy said earlier...just call and ask to be transferred to "customer retention" from the get go and avoid the hassles.

I am unaware of any way to get faster internet (residentially) for the price that TWC offers it. I'm all ears if anyone has ideas. We're on their 50mbps plan, so there aren't many faster options.

#bytheballs

 

[nkyphatcat]

I got rid of Insight and switched to Direct TV and now I'm ditching them for Cincinnati Bell Fiber optics... well until they price gouge me then maybe to dish... it's so stupid, you would think the people who pay loyally, and on time, would get a break. What a whacky business model.

 

[throatpoker]

Originally posted by nkyphatcat:
you would think the people who pay loyally, and on time, would get a break. What a whacky business model.
this is word for word what i told them last year when i called to complain, well i called it ass backwards. they tried to tell me there were no promotions and i said cut everything off. then they changed their tune, "let me look around and see what i can do". i said either give me the price you advertise on for new customers or don't bother. like i said above, they lowered the prices, gave me a higher tier tv service/internet speed and guaranteed the price for a year with no contract

This post was edited on 4/15 6:44 PM by throatpoker

 

[TKE_]

Give them the "Jared's Monkey" code and save 25%.

 

[DDS62]

Originally posted by throatpoker:

Originally posted by nkyphatcat:
you would think the people who pay loyally, and on time, would get a break. What a whacky business model.
this is word for word what i told them last year when i called to complain, well i called it ass backwards. they tried to tell me there were no promotions and i said cut everything off. then they changed their tune, "let me look around and see what i can do". i said either give me the price you advertise on for new customers or don't bother. like i said above, they lowered the prices, gave me a higher tier tv service/internet speed and guaranteed the price for a year with no contract

I really didn't believe you and the others, just silently assumed everyone was shooting the bull as sometimes happens on these boards. but today suddenly realizing that I had never tested that persuasion, I impulsivey made a quick call to TWC and said somewhat similar to what you said, and - WOW - I am now paying even less than I was last week before the $10 monthly increase. I guess they think they have made a life long friendly customer, and I am plesantly surprised at how easy it is to name your own price. However actually I am offended by their business practices. Maybe in the end it all work out. But for sure I/we usually have no choice, there is simply no alternative, no competition, and that is mostly because of our great "Free Enterprise" society.



This post was edited on 4/15 6:44 PM by throatpoker

 

[KentUcKy-Kats]

Roku + Sling TV = Happiness

 

[bbonds]

Originally posted by KentUcKy-Kats:
Roku + Sling TV = Happiness

So if you just have TWC's internet service, does that give you access to WatchESPN, or do you also have to have TV service?

 

[KentUcKy-Kats]

Go to the site and check it out. You don't have to deal with WatchESPN. It has ESPN and ESPN2 included in the $20 base package and then you can add the $5 sports package that has ESPNU, ESPNEWS and SEC Network included. The base package also has channels like AMC, TBS, TNT, History, A&E, and some channels the women like, such as Lifetime, HGTV, and FOOD Network.

I have a local internet provider here in southern Kentucky for internet ($35), and have Sling TV/w the added sports package($25/mon.), Netflix($8/mon.), and Amazon Prime($99/yr). Depending on your area you can use an HD antenna and get locals for free in HD. My total bill per month for TV I actually watch and internet. $71 after tax. Add in the Amazon Prime to the monthly and it hits $80, but that is still better than the $135 I was paying AT&T Uverse for the same stuff essentially plus a bunch of sh*t that wasn't needed and NO CONTRACT. Also, I can watch on my phone anywhere or stream through my Roku. Can also watch on the computer.

Here is everything I get for the listed above amount:

ESPN ESPN2
ESPNEWS ESPNU
SEC Network AMC
Food Network A&E
History Channel History 2
TNT HGTV
TBS Disney Channel
Travel Channel ABC Family
CNN Cartoon Network
Lifetime (Plus 2 Hispanic channels that I don't watch)

*2 channels I don't watch in comparison to the 400+ on cable/satellite

Plus everything on Netflix
Plus Free HD local channels
Plus everything that is associated with the Amazon Prime (TV show/movie streaming, Free 2 day shipping which i use A LOT, Amazon Music, which they just lauched a Pandora type music station streaming service within their music app, and Kindle perks which I use A LOT).

Sling is pretty cool because its no contract like Netflix. Cancel anytime. You get all the sports channels wthout dealing with the cable company stipulations for WatchESPN and you get a small assortment of channels most people actually watch. Plus depending on the person, they have other $5 add on packages that you can pick and choose from to supplement what you like.

They also just added HBO as an add-on package. $15, but that is what the cable company and satellite providers charge, and most times it locks you in for a contract. Sling doesn't for the same price.





This post was edited on 4/16 12:37 PM by KentUcKy-Kats

 

[DDS62]

Thats pretty cool. Is there any way to record the shows on Sling.

 

[Chuckinden]

I have had DISH for almost 20 yrs so I can't compare everything, but my son has TWC and the DVR is no where near as good as DISH's Hopper system.

 

[KentUcKy-Kats]

Originally posted by DDS62:
Thats pretty cool. Is there any way to record the shows on Sling.

Not at this time, but I am sure they will have an option in the future for DVR services. You do have the ability to rewind and fast forward on some channels on Sling, but not every channel offers that ability either.

This is the direction the industry is headed. You will see more and more providers going to these micro packages, whether they are online stream or box top. The cord cutters are starting to make a dent and its getting their attention.

Sling is actually a subsidiary of DISH Network Corp. However, you do not deal with DISH for those that hate satellite companies. I did a self quality check call to Sling before I signed up and ask some questions and the support was really good.

Dish more so realized a good investment and grabbed on. I think AT&T is starting a similar type service, but Sling has been doing the streaming game for awhile. I'd say from a QoS standpoint they will hold the market for the initial couple of years.