ADVERTISEMENT

Time to blow the Reds up

TCPUKChamps

TCPUKChamps

All-American
Gold Member
Dec 19, 2002
37,354
20,601
113
They may sneak into the WC playoff, but once again, despite all the spending, their ceiling is the NLDS.


Bailey, Choo, Chapman, Hanigan, Marshall, Broxton, Phillips all need moved. Bailey/Choo/Chapman/Hanigan (When healthy) to replenish the farm system, Marshall/Broxton/Phillips for a bag of balls to shed salary.


Time to rebuild around Votto/Mesoraco/Latos/Cueto/Hamilton/Cingrani/Leake

I'd offer Chapman to Detroit for Castellanos/Rondon/Smyly


Move Cingrani to closer, Smyly takes over as LH reliever.


Rondon as the setup man
 
Completely disagree. I think the Reds are one good bat away from being a very good team. Right now they are about average, but they still have a 5 game lead on the wildcard. You dont blow up a team thats going to the playoffs.

However, unless they address the entire left side of the team, they are effed. Cozart and Frazier are GOD AWFUL baseball players and we have no LF.

Not sure why in the hell you would include Mesoraco in your rebuilding. That guy is pathetic. The Reds may have the worst offensive catchers in all of baseball.
 
Originally posted by assistbyhawkins:
Completely disagree. I think the Reds are one good bat away from being a very good team. Right now they are about average, but they still have a 5 game lead on the wildcard. You dont blow up a team thats going to the playoffs.

However, unless they address the entire left side of the team, they are effed. Cozart and Frazier are GOD AWFUL baseball players and we have no LF.

Not sure why in the hell you would include Mesoraco in your rebuilding. That guy is pathetic. The Reds may have the worst offensive catchers in all of baseball.
Click to expand...
I disagree about Frazier, howver I for one wouldn't mind seeing Cozart get his walking papers, He's above average defensively, but at the plate in any sort of meaningful at-bat he is pretty much a guaranteed out.

The Reds definitely need to be buyers here over the next couple of weeks if they expect to get past the NLDS. Cueto is pretty much a wash-out this season, without some serious retooling he will continue down this injury path. Cingrani has been a very good fill-in but the Reds might look into either borrowing a starter for the 2nd half from somebody and or shoring up their injury riddled bullpen. They also need an everyday left fielder, I doubt Ludwick gets back to full strength this year. Heisey is just plain pitiful and platooning three guys oth there isn't what playoff contenders need to be doing. I do wish they could keep Choo for at least one more season, though I'm thinking he's going to be wanting a long-term deal after this season. I don't think Hamilton is quite ready yet, he's struggled against AAA pitching. I'm guessing we'll get a decent look at him in September, but I think he's still another year away from being a top-shelf leadoff guy and centerfielder. He will add some juice to the Reds running game as they head into the post-season though, I can see him being used as a situational pinch runner.

I don't know whos available for the Reds to go after right now, but I really hope they are looking to spend a little more money on this season. If that blows up in their face though, it may be time to move some key parts or part ways with the skipper.
 
Why in the world would you blow up a team that if their ace Cueto had been healthy all year your talking about a team yhat is probably in the lead of their division.

Anyone who wants to trade Chapman/BP is borderline moron.

Look, are there weaknesses? Yep. Does it hurt to see Bruce suck for 2 months and then be the best player in baseball for a month? Yep.

But if you want to blow this up your a damn fool.
 
The Reds have criminally misused Aroldis Chapman to the point where's he's basically an afterthought.
 
View from an outsider:

Reds need a couple of bats and a manager who isn't mentally retarded.

Too close to being "there" to blow it up.
 
All they had to do was trade for a LF as soon as Ludwick got hurt, and especially after Heisey got hurt too (& was sucking).
Still not too late for them. They don't need an all-start LF, just an adequate one who could bat 6th-7th.
 
Originally posted by TCPUKChamps:
The Reds have criminally misused Aroldis Chapman to the point where's he's basically an afterthought.
Click to expand...
It took me a second but I now realize your just trolling. I guess Mariano is also an afterthought, I seriously doubt anyone that has to face Aroldis in the 9th is looking past him.
 
The Reds could package Aroldis Champman and Billy Hamilton for a big bat, get fully healthy again (especially need Cueto and Ludwick back), and I'd feel fantastic about their chances heading into the postseason.


Wouldn't hurt their future one bit, either, imo.
 
Another outsider's view...the problem is mainly Dusty. He's far and away the worst game manager in baseball and one of the worst the game has ever seen. I say game manager because the players seem to like him, which is important. It would drive me absolutely insane to have a good team that is constantly being hampered by their idiotic manager. Most MLB managers do dumb things, but Dusty takes the cake.

Keith Law did a great piece on why a team's best hitter should bat second, Dusty has his worst hitter there. I especially love when he calls for sac bunt's which leave an open base for Votto or Phillips
laugh.r191677.gif
 
Originally posted by UK_WINS_NCAA:
Another outsider's view...the problem is mainly Dusty. He's far and away the worst game manager in baseball and one of the worst the game has ever seen. I say game manager because the players seem to like him, which is important. It would drive me absolutely insane to have a good team that is constantly being hampered by their idiotic manager. Most MLB managers do dumb things, but Dusty takes the cake.

Keith Law did a great piece on why a team's best hitter should bat second, Dusty has his worst hitter there. I especially love when he calls for sac bunt's which leave an open base for Votto or Phillips
laugh.r191677.gif
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more. I have always said that Reds win in spite of Dusty not because of Dusty.
 
Dusty needs fired, we need to use Chapman more than 3 outs. You don't blow up a team they won 90 plus last year and is on their way to the postseason again.
 
I still hate how the Reds always sit on their thumbs when it comes to the trade deadline. Especially when they are contending. This year they are holding out hope that they get Ludwick, Cueto, Marshall and Broxton back healthy. Well, how has that worked for them so far in regards to Cueto? This is his 3rd trip to the DL this season alone. He'll come back, give them one or two good starts then right back to the DL he goes. I'm not convinced yet that he will be around come playoff time. Ludwick is recovering from a major shoulder injury, Yes he's on a rehab assignment right now, and coming back pretty darn early for the type of injury he suffered, I'm not convinced he'll be full strength giving the Reds the right handed power they need. As for Marshall and Broxton, neither of them seem much closer to returning any time soon and again, Marshall has come back once or twice already himself only to be shut down again. I'm not holding out hope that any of these guys will be the shot in the arm the Reds need for the home stretch of he season.

Please Reds go out and fill the needs with a couple of trades moves for some healthy players, even if it means moving one of the guys on the DL right now. and please get somebody to replace Cozart in the lineup, the dude is a guarenteed out in any meaningful at bat.
 
Thing about Cozart is that shortstops with a bat are hard to find and take a lot to get. Cozart has a good glove too. I think we'd whine less about him if not for Dusty's comical use of him in the lineup. It's not like he's taxing our budget.

When you look around there are three legit shortstops that are batting over or around 800 OPS. Jean Segura who can't field the position very well and the Brewers wouldn't trade him to us anyway. Jhonny Peralta who the Tigers need. Ian Desmond who's on the Nats is a good SS bat with great defense but the Nats might hold out on the hope that they're still contenders. He's who I'd target, but I think he'd just be a rental and the Nats might want a decent prospect for him.
 
Why was it you traded Encarnacion and what did you get for him? I forget.
 
Originally posted by Shew:

Why was it you traded Encarnacion and what did you get for him? I forget.
Click to expand...
The Reds traded Encarnacion for Rolen. Encarnacion was inconsistent and his fielding was suspect. I have my suspicions he's using some form of PED's. He was nothing for the Reds and now he's Babe Ruth with the Blue Jays. Just saying....
 
Cincy traded Encarnacion, reliever Josh Roenicke, and reliever Zach Stewart (who was with the Louisville Bats) to Toronto for Scott Rolen and about four million dollars. Encarnacion was pretty abysmal at the time (by July 30th, when he was traded, he'd only played in 42 full games because of an injury, and in those 42 games he was .209/.333/.374 with -0.7 WAR, a .959 fielding %, and an Rtot of -7), Reds GM Walt Jocketty wanted Rolen for his veteran leadership, and Rolen wanted to be out of Toronto and closer to his home in Indiana for personal reasons.http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5904
 
26-29 in their last 55 games.

Cannot beat a team with a winning record.

This season's over. Time to sell.
 
I've seen Billy Hamilton play A LOT. He's not very good. Don't understand the hype. Skinnier than Shagari. No bat at all. Robinson is a much better prospect/player.

Absolutely trade him if you can get value.
 
There was a recent article written that John Fay linked about how scouts are starting to really sour on Hamilton's hitting.

The Reds HAVE to get a bat. One run in their last 30+ innings? Get Michael Young to put at 3b and move Frazier to LF until Ludwick back.

Here is my concerns. Reds won't get Choo back. They keep Frazier and Cozart and Mesoraco in the lineup every day. Ludwick goes to left and Heisey to center field. That is a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE offensive lineup.

And Brandon Phillips contract is going to kill them in a couple years at best.
 
* Billy Hamilton is hitting .247 with a .306 on-base %, and a .336 slugging %. I love John Fay and all, but do you need a scout's perspective to know he's hit a wall? I don't.

I'd deal him in a second. The ONLY way he's a bona fide big leaguer is if he gets on base ~ 40% of the time.

* Michael Young is hitting .277/.342 with 7 home runs. You really think he's the solution?

By comparison, Todd Frazier = ..246/.337/10 home runs.

Neither one is doing much.

* Agree on Brandon Phillips, although I think he's still got trade value. Or at least you could unload his salary/contract. I love him, and the time hasn't come yet to start thinking that way -- but we'll be able to unload him when need be.
 
The ONLY way he's a bona fide big leaguer is if he gets on base ~ 40% of the time.
Click to expand...
WTF are you talking about?? There are a total of SIX players in MLB that get on more than 40% of the time. Better tell the remaing 600 players they suck.

In the AL there are ZERO leadoff hitters with a minimum of 250 plate appearances that have 400 OBA. The highest leadoff in the AL is Ellsbury at .364. There are only 6 leadoff hitters in all of baseball with an OBA higher than .350. Choo and Carpenter are the only leadoff hitters with an OBA of .400 at the leadoff position.

I agree with the rest of what you say, but Hamilton could be extremely valuable to a club if he gets on base 35% of the time. Considering there are only 6 leadoff hitters in all of baseball that are better than that, Id say that would work out for a team, particularly with his speed.

Great point though. Maybe he needs to average 240 hits a year, too.
 
ABH, I've been to at least 10 Bats games this season and watched Hamilton play. He's not very good.

Derrick Robinson doesn't get enough love.
 
abh --> but the other 600 big leaguers.....almost every single one, anyways (minus ben revere) -- all have more power than Billy Hamilton.



If you have *zero* power, that's fine -- but you'd darn well better get on base ALL THE FREAKING TIME.
 
Hopefully the Reds can be healthy in the next month or so. If they can get Marshall, Broxton, Cueto, and Ludwick to come back and play at a good level I think the Reds can contend. I'm not sure if all 4 of those guys will come back. I have not heard anything about Cueto, anyone know anything? Marshall and Broxton and come back and solidify the bullpen and Ludwick can come back and give the offense a much needed boost. If that happens the Reds are still one of the better teams in baseball.
 
Marshall was shut down again recently and is having his shoulder re-evaluated by the doctors, don't look for him to come back at all quite honestly. Cueto has bee on the DL 3 times already this season alone, without some major retooling of his delivery, he'll likely go right back on the DL after 2 or 3 starts. 3 times on the DL before the al-star break doesn't give me much hope that he will be back at full strength any time soon. Not sure where Broxton stands, but he's probably still a couple of weeks away as is Ludwick who needs more at bats in rehab before they will call him back up.

Damn Reds should have cut some deals at the deadline.
 
Wild Card Lead down to 3.5

Just a matter of time until Arizona passes them
 
Originally posted by legalbeagle123:
View from an outsider:

Reds need a couple of bats and a manager who isn't mentally retarded.

Too close to being "there" to blow it up.
Click to expand...
As much as I'd hate it because it would make the Reds a serious threat, there is a coach who has a few good years left and supposedly wants back in. Reds fans would have A LOT of appologizing to do but he'd have them near the top soon -



LaRussa
 
4.5 up for the second WC with 50 games to go.

Even though they've not played well for two months, the season is not over. The NL Central title is unlikely, but they, more than likely, will at least have a place at the postseason table in October.
 
It's in times like we're seeing now that I think people completely overlook what is Dusty Baker's greatest strength...he's a quality clubhouse manager for a 162 game season. His teams consistently bounce off the mat...back in 2009 in the infamous Phillips called-the-Cardinals-bitches series the Reds got pilloried and the Cardinals left town with what looked like an insurmountable lead...but the Reds self-corrected and coasted to the Division title. Last year Votto goes down and it looked dire...and they went on a historic run. This year they leave the Cardinals series again ragged, pitching decimated and barely scratching together two scoring innings...and have rallied as the Pirates and Cardinals have faltered a little bit.

I think the Reds are sitting in about as good a position as could be imagined, and remarkably without their ace, without two quality veteran setup men and without what was going to be the cleanup hitter in the first day of the regular season. Those that are Reds fans understand the value of Ryan Hanigan to the pitching staff...and he's been out for extended stretches. The perception is that the Reds have underachieved or haven't fired and I think that perception if fed by the fact that the other four almost certain playoff teams have gone on a huge streak at some point during the season: the Cardinals with their unbelievable hitting with RISP, the Pirates with an exceptional run bookending the All-Star break, the Dodgers going 40-8 in their last 48 (to put that into perspective, the '75 Reds went on a 40-10 tear to put the NL West away in early September) and the Braves with their recent 15 game winning streak. The Reds have just maintained but always were still fairly comfortably in the 2nd Wild Card spot...despite a tough nucleus of missing veterans and that's something often overlooked; those guys aren't in the clubhouse either on road trips. The schedule from here out looks like it's working in their favor within the division...they're the best home team in the Central and have more home games than the Pirates and Cardinals and the Pirates have a West Coast swing remaining.

I can't believe I'm sitting here on August 16th saying that despite being in third place in the Division, it's a minor miracle that they're only 2.5 out. Personnel wise I don't think it could have gotten much worse than where they were sitting three weeks ago; and I think some of it is that Phillips is starting to look like he's overcome the forearm injury sustained against the Pirates.
 
I don't know how you Reds fans can stand watching a team managed by Dusty Baker for an entire season. I'm a Pirates fan and the idiotic things he does even frustrate me!

Heisey gets on, Dusty puts the steal sign on which then creates an open base for Votto. Just took the bat out of the hands of one of the best hitters in the game.
laugh.r191677.gif


Looks like it's gonna work out for them, but my god what a terrible manager he is.

This post was edited on 8/16 10:48 PM by UK_WINS_NCAA
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back