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Thought our recruiting would be significantly improved...

Kampus Korner

Kampus Korner

All-American
Mar 23, 2007
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Following three straight bowl appearances capped of with a 10-3 season and Citrus Bowl victory over a big named opponent, I thought UK would be able to lure more highly rated players to its program than it has in the past. However, according to Rivals, UK is ranked 31st behind these SEC schools with their respective rankings.

1. Alabama
2. Georgia
5. Texam A&M
6. LSU
11. Florida
15. Tennessee
16. Auburn
18. Arkansas
19. South Carolina
23. Mississippis State
24 Mississippi
31. Kentucky
32 Missouri
47. Vanderbilt


While for the most part, Kentucky has traditionally been ranked as having the 10th best recruiting class in the SEC or worse, it would seem reasonable to assume that after three consecutive successful years, UK would be able to attract better quality recruits than it has in years past. Alas, it hasn't happend yet. We are currently ranked 12th. Hopefully, we will get some more 4 star players to sign this month but even with a few more, it appears we are still going to be about 10th best in the SEC when it comes to recuiting. All of this makes what Stoops and his staff have done even more noteworthy.
 
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Virtually everyone from the SEC other than Arkansas has made bowl games recently. So it's not like UK is doing something exceptional. The 10 - 3 season may help with next year if UK can back it up. UK hasn't had the history to help them. But I do think UK is trending up with recruits outside our immediate region.
 
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2020 class should really be great. The 2018 season will really help with that class and 2021. The Junior Day this past weekend was a huge hit. The SEC is always going to be hard to outrecruit. Put UK in any other conference and most years, they are too 4-5 in the conference in recruiting. As long as they stay in the top 25-30 range like they have been, they can stay very competitive with most anyone. But I think all UK fans will be really pleased with the upcoming '20 class.
 
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maysvilleky said:
Virtually everyone from the SEC other than Arkansas has made bowl games recently. So it's not like UK is doing something exceptional. The 10 - 3 season may help with next year if UK can back it up. UK hasn't had the history to help them. But I do think UK is trending up with recruits outside our immediate region.
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Within the world of college football our image remains marginal, even though it feels to us like we've done a lot. Just getting consideration by more talented players is a major step forward. Building on last year's accomplishments will help, as will nabbing a few headline grabbers here and there. Trying to take this next step will be a tough haul.
 
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If we fill our needs with quality players then I am happy. Plus very little difference in a total class between 10th raking and 30th ranking.
 
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A few things to consider .....

1. While the RELATIVE recruiting ranking of UK may not seem to be greatly improved, I think it is obvious that the actual talent & balance of the recruiting classes in Lexington are better than what they have been.

2. To some degree, recruiting rankings are an inexact science. It is true that the more successful programs will tend to sign classes with a greater number of 4 and 5-stars, but individual players are not locked into some "expert's" evaluation. Look no further than Josh Allen or Benny Snell as examples of this.

3. It takes time to develop relationships with high school coaches and programs, and for recruits who tend to notice results on the field. Therefore, one might expect to reap more rewards in 2020 from this past season than in 2019.

4. Mark Stoops does not have the luxury at UK that he might at some schools where the brand helps to sell itself. The Wildcats simply don't have a long history of success on the gridiron. He is slowly building that resume for the 'Cats. It takes time.

5. As frustrating as it may seem, anyone who might demand titles and top-10 recruiting classes is likely setting themselves up for disappointment, at least in the short term. Not only is the SEC stacked with programs doing this on what is a relatively new level for the Wildcats, there are other programs across the nation competing for the talent, as well, many of which are consistently in the top-10 in recruiting.
 
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1. We real in 2 4* kids to wrap up this class (which could easily happen)....UK will break into the 20's.
2. This past year hopefully catapults the 2020 class...that is usually the cadence of how recruiting unfolds in coordination with A great finish on the field. To be honest...by the time we many of our 2019 class committed....we had yet to play MSU, USC, Mizzou, etc... But know coaches are selling the 10-3 season to the 2020 class now and I am hoping we get some bounce from that.
 
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44% of the top 25 are SEC programs. So nearly half. The rest is divided up among the rest of College Football. It's a struggle to climb in the SEC, but I think the 4-5 schools in front of us only have marginal differences in their classes. 2-3 good signees could move us past several of them. it's a numbers game really.
 
K_TIME said:
1. We real in 2 4* kids to wrap up this class (which could easily happen)....UK will break into the 20's.
2. This past year hopefully catapults the 2020 class...that is usually the cadence of how recruiting unfolds in coordination with A great finish on the field. To be honest...by the time we many of our 2019 class committed....we had yet to play MSU, USC, Mizzou, etc... But know coaches are selling the 10-3 season to the 2020 class now and I am hoping we get some bounce from that.
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Very true. For the most part the '19 class was finished by the end of the season. Could be helping with Ward and Devonshire however. '20 class is where some evidence may come to light.
 
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The current season will benefit the following class more than the current one. The current season helps to maintain your current class.

Recruiting is often about relationships which take time to develop.

So, going 7-6 in 2018 helped us to currently be ranked #31 for the 2019 class. Going 10-3 in 2019 helps us to maintain the guys in the 2019 class. (reduces decommitments, helps mildly with commitments, etc) Going 10-3 in 2019 really helps progress relationships for the 2020 class.

So, if we have a decent yr in 2019, we can likely expect a bump in the 2020 class. How much? Not sure, we'll have to see.
 
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We don't seem to waste any time recruiting kids just because they help the paper ranking of our class. Some, but not all, SEC member schools pretty clearly take fliers regularly on kids with marginal character and probably work ethic just so they can say they scored a nice recruiting class. I'm not going to stake out my position on who's involved, other than to say I don't think we waste any rides on such kids.
 
Kampus Korner said:
...
While for the most part, Kentucky has traditionally been ranked as having the 10th best recruiting class in the SEC or worse, it would seem reasonable to assume that after three consecutive successful years, UK would be able to attract better quality recruits than it has in years past. Alas, it hasn't happend yet...
Click to expand...

Patience. FB recruiting is like turning an aircraft carrier rather than a PT boat.

The guys that sign(ed) with us this year went thru middle school and high school with UK recording records of

7th grade, 2-10
8th grade, 2-10
Frosh, 5-7
Soph, 5-7
Junior year, 7-6
Going into their Senior year, 7-6
And finally after their Senior season we go 10-3

They're not girls who change their minds every 15 seconds. A base opinion is formulated over time and our recent history in over half of their lives hasn't been all that rosie.
 
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Three points:
First....Schools are picked for many reasons. (Team reputation, HC, playing time, conference affiliation, NFL level development, etc). Re: NFL development. It could be our draft performance this year with Josh, Benny, etc could turn heads of more players in the future with legitimate NFL expectations.

Second....I think CMS is doing a good job developing what counts the most which is O and D lines. As such, we can do a lot with good-to-great skill players w/competetent line blocking/tackling without the presence of superstar 5 star skill players. It would be great to have them.....but not as much of an imperative as in years past when UK needed skill players to make their own breaks out there with substandard line play.

Finally, CMS recruits the Midwest, and he recruits it well. Living presently in Columbus, OH, it is mentioned often on sports radio that UK is syphoning talent that might otherwise go to B1G teams such as Mich St. Snell was a frequent mention this year as he was a local talent. Midwest is a good pipeline for us, BUT I don’t think there is a midwestern bump that the local HS kids can get as there is with players from TX, FL, GA, and LA. I think players in the Midwest are relegated to 3 stars quite often unless they have blazing measurables to go with good HS performance on tape.

Just my $0.02

GBB!
 
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Rock_Cat78 said:
2020 class should really be great. The 2018 season will really help with that class and 2021. The Junior Day this past weekend was a huge hit. The SEC is always going to be hard to outrecruit. Put UK in any other conference and most years, they are too 4-5 in the conference in recruiting. As long as they stay in the top 25-30 range like they have been, they can stay very competitive with most anyone. But I think all UK fans will be really pleased with the upcoming '20 class.
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Recruiting is a little like the weather around here and the climate can change on a dime several times during one cycle, but it generally follows the perception and sizzle of a program at any given moment.

It always helps to end a season on a high note but this season I think one added thing in our favor was that we may have left just a little more impression with higher level recruits that we may have finally broken through a barrier of being taken seriously as an ongoing program and not just a "7 win splash in the pan isn' that cute" kind of program.

All year long even the media still would not competely buy in that this year may be different and those wins on the road and against top 20's were still smoke and mirrors maybe. But after finishing the bowl win I think most of that has disappeared and beleive you'll see a different level of respect in the pre-season right ups next time and I think the players feel that too and hopefully a few more feel it's okay to choose UK and not have to give up a chance at big bowl games to do it. Doesnt hurt to have a big profile draft day either.
 
RV2 said:
Patience. FB recruiting is like turning an aircraft carrier rather than a PT boat.

The guys that sign(ed) with us this year went thru middle school and high school with UK recording records of

7th grade, 2-10
8th grade, 2-10
Frosh, 5-7
Soph, 5-7
Junior year, 7-6
Going into their Senior year, 7-6
And finally after their Senior season we go 10-3

They're not girls who change their minds every 15 seconds. A base opinion is formulated over time and our recent history in over half of their lives hasn't been all that rosie.
Click to expand...
Some do change their minds every 15 seconds. Just ask Jarren Williams.
 
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Recruiting and performance over time are pretty much inextricably linked. Your recruiting is almost always linked to "performance profile" over time.

I took a quick look at the Top 20 recruiting rankings of 2002, 2012 and 2018 (e.g., representing of a "span" of 17 years). Naturally there are "variations" within any multi-year cycle. In that cycle (2002-2018) I found 11 teams in the Top 20 in each of those 3 representative years I selected (I simply would not take the time to go year by year as it should be done).

In no particular order those 11 are: TX, TN, GA, FSU, tOSU, AU, OU, MIA, LSU, USC and FL. And 8 of those 11 teams (i.e., all but TN, MIA and AU) finished in the Top 20 12 or more times between 2002 and 2018.

FWIW, I see several posts mentioning WI. If you are not one of the 15 or so "consistently elite" recruiting schools (meaning one of the other 115 or so school) that is exactly who you want to emulate. They have 12 Top 25 finishes since 2002 but not a single Top 25 recruiting class. [winking]

Peace
 
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I predict this class will wind up in the mid to upper 20s. I also think that recruiting lags performance, meaning that the 2020 class should show a spike up in talent providing we can continue to be successful on the field.
 
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On the field success takes a little while to translate to recruiting improvements. Most players have already established relationships with their likely destination long before the season ever begins.

Despite that fact, believe it or not, Kentucky's success has already started paying big dividends in recruiting. Starting in late November, the staff really picked up momentum and began to land some of the biggest prospects left on their big board. Plus, having a legitimate chance with Ward, Robinson, and Devonshire is a direct result of on the field success. All 3 have basically said exactly that.

Finally convincing JJ Weaver, flipping Jared Casey, keeping Cavon Butler (despite him being targeted by some BIG programs late), and landing the MUCH sought after Quandre Mosely and Taj Dodson at the 11th hour (to the dismay of a couple schools that just about considered them locks). All of those 5 would NOT be in Lexington if UK ends up 6-6 last season. Maybe they still get a couple of them, but there's no way they'd have closed with all 5.

All those 5 might not be top 250 players that Kentucky flipped from OSU, Alabama, Georgia, etc. at the last second, but they represent a trend that will continue to show itself. Instead of missing out on targets to schools like Miami, Tennessee, Virginia Tech, etc and ending up with their #5-#7 ranked recruits, they will gradually begin to start landing their #2-#4 ranked players at positions on their recruiting boards.

Having said all of that, CMS and his staff have always shown themselves to be EXCELLENT recruiters. They consistently manage to end up in the top 20-30 overall rankings. That's been one of the big reasons for the program's turnaround.

Getting to the level of the top 8-10 recruiting programs is not realistic. Especially in the short term. From a rankings standpoint, improvements in recruiting, due to Kentucky's newly found success, will not show itself with a massive upturn. It's going to gradually improve. Getting a commitment from a 5.7 3* instead of a 5.6 3* player isn't going to cause a big jump in the rankings, but will be a nice improvement nonetheless.

After the top 10 or so classes, there isn't much difference between #11 and #30 IMO. Which class is best in that range is mostly a matter of opinion and differs based on how well a staff can evaluate. Kentucky's success may only result in getting a few players that are 5.8s instead of 5.7s or 5.7s instead of 5.6s, but if that means they are landing players that they previously missed out on, it's going to pay huge dividends.

There's little difference on paper between the #22 and #26 class, but by landing higher priority players, that's the type of difference I look to see happen to Kentucky in 2020. Roughly, if the average commitment in the 2019 class were just a tenth better (5.5 to 5.6, 5.6-5-7, etc), Kentucky's class would only jump from #31 to #24 (Without adding in bonus points). Not a crazy turnaround, but a very nice improvement that'll pay huge dividends. That's the type of improvement that you should look for after going 10-3 and winning the Citrus Bowl.

Too long didn't read version: Recruiting is improving, but at a slow rate. They will begin landing players that the staff ranks higher on their big board instead of losing them to rival programs and then moving on to their next best available prospect. Kentucky cannot recruit at an elite top 10 level, but they are excellent at evaluating players. Don't expect dozens of top 250 players to suddenly start committing to UK, but landing a commitment from the #3 OLB on your big board instead of ending up with #7, is a big-time improvement when you consider that there's 25 players in a class.
 
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For decades we “hoped” our 50ish ranked classes were undervalued.

Since 2013, we have hoped our [on average] 27th ranked classes were undervalued.

We ended the 2018/19 season ranked 11th, won 10 and whipped Penn State.

I now fully expect that our 2019 recruiting class is undervalued, based upon credible evidence.
 
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You can definately compete with top 30 classes. If we get Lee, Ward and Devonshire we should have a top 25 class.
 
seccats04 said:
You can definately compete with top 30 classes. If we get Lee, Ward and Devonshire we should have a top 25 class.
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Actually, that'd put us at #26 with 1743 points vs Wisconsin at #27 with 1742.

As you said, rankings do not tell the whole story! Heck yeah you can compete with a top 30 class! Kentucky's staff is excellent at evaluating prospects. A whole lot better than Rivals, 247, or any other recruiting service. Plus, they are exceptional at developing those players once they arrive.

Rankings be damned. A class full of 25 players on the level of JJ Weaver, Jared Casey, Cavon Butler, Quandre Mosely, Taj Dobson, Jay Ward, and MJ Devonshire would only be ranked around #20. However, they're elite, top notch players, with offers from historically successful programs, that UK ranked near the top of their recruiting board coming to Kentucky. A team full of players at the caliber of what UK has been getting the last couple months would be FANTASTIC and continue this run for years to come.

After going 2-10 in 2012, 2-10 in 2013, and 5-7 in 2014, UK signed the #17 overall class. Recruiting has been great since CMS started and will continue to improve.
 
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Sleepy Sleeperson said:
Sometimes these rankings defy logic - take a look at Tra Wilkins offer sheet. He's a 5.5, 3 star - Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, Florida etc all offered (according to Rivals). What's more important - his mediocre rating, or the schools that offered?
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True. Some rankings are more puzzling than others. A lot of it comes down to somebody's opinion on a certain day. All in all, they really do a great job on average though. 4* players outperform 3*s on average. 5.7s seem to be better than 5.6s Finding the top 25 overall players probably isn't too difficult. After that, the other 3,000 seem impossible to rank. I applaud Rivals on the job they do.

However, as great of a job as they do, Kentucky's staff under CMS is doing an even better job. How many times has a player committed to UK early, blew up in the rankings, and become a top target for an elite school?

Kentucky's run of success doesn't require them to start targeting higher players at all IMO. With the wins and momentum, if they can start keeping all the gems they find early and begin landing players they have ranked higher on their own recruiting board, they'll continue to be a top 25 team every year. From what I can tell, recruiting at Kentucky is at a level equal to or better than nearly everyone outside of the elites (Alabama, A&M, Georgia, Oklahoma, Clemson, LSU, etc), despite what their classes are actually ranked at the end of every year.
 
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trueblujr2 said:
44% of the top 25 are SEC programs. So nearly half. The rest is divided up among the rest of College Football. It's a struggle to climb in the SEC, but I think the 4-5 schools in front of us only have marginal differences in their classes. 2-3 good signees could move us past several of them. it's a numbers game really.
Click to expand...
Very true
 
Something I noticed this AM. Every single 2019 UK recruit, except for one, DROPPED in their respective position rankings. Some dropped out of position rankings completely (Tisdale). The only recruit that went "up" in position rankings was JJ Weaver. He went from 14 to 10 at his position ... BUT he dropped OUT of the Top 250 after he committed to us.

Do I trust the Rivals evaluations or the coaches? Josh, Bunchy and Benny provide ample reason to defer to the coaches. (NOTE: Bunchy was #28 Center and the other 2 were not ranked at position.) But the fact ALL UK commits (sans Weaver) dropped AND Weaver dropped from Top 250 while going UP in his position is crazy. Statistics would say that is highly unlikely. In the Stoops era, we've averaged 11 Top 50 players at their positions, with 2014 (19) being the best year. This year, if nothing else changes, will be the least (7) in the Stoops era.

There may not be a "conspiracy" against UK, but we sure as ish don't get the benefit of the doubt like other schools do. And this crap is NOT right IMO.
 
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Recruiting is typically done a year or 2 in advance as for building relationships. We will see the uptick from our success this year in next year and beyond. We had already signed the majority of our class before the bowl game. Not sure what anyone was expecting.
 
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