The Third Phase of the Stoops’ Era

[The-Hack]

I brought a thread back up from the Spring of 2019, where I suggested the first phase of the Stoops’ era had come to an end, and the second phase had begun.

The first phase from 2013 to 2018 comprised six seasons of linear progress surpassed only three times in the history of SEC football. Only Jordan at Auburn, General Neyland at Tennessee, and Steve Spurrier at South Carolina had seven successive seasons with neither an increase in losses or a decrease in wins.

And I argued that the clearest foundation of that first phase was Stoop’s 2014 Class that ranked as high as 19th in the nation. Three huge names from that 2014 class played their last game on January 1, 2019, in Darius West and Mike Edwards and Bunchy Stallings. Those three, and others such as Boom Williams, formed much of the core of Stoops’ early modest successes from 2014-2018.

Going forward from the 2019 Citrus Bowl, Kentucky would have to rely on a succession of classes that were more modestly rated than was 2014’s. I further argued that the 2019 season would likely represent “the floor” of what we might expect for the three or four seasons following the 2019 Citrus Bowl.

2019 ended at 8-5, and the COVID season of ‘20, at 5-6, each with bowl trophies.

Now with the ‘21/‘22 transfers of the likes of Will Levis, Dare Rosenthal, Wan Dale Robinson, the new Robinson from VPI, AND a Top 10 recruiting Class for ‘22, I think a new era is being born in Lexington.

Achieving a 9-3/5-3 record in the SEC, the 4th best SEC slate for ‘21 [with only the 12th best recruiting classes the 4 prior years] has confirmed what the 2018 season suggested: Stoops wins more games than the quality of his recruits might suggest.

And the nation’s recruits have taken notice.

I suspect Stoop’s can continue to advance both the perceived floor and ceiling of the program in the next 3/4 seasons, and he seems very content to continue that process at Kentucky.

 

[maysvilleky]

I brought a thread back up from the Spring of 2019, where I suggested the first phase of the Stoops’ era had come to an end, and the second phase had begun.

The first phase from 2013 to 2018 comprised six seasons of linear progress surpassed only three times in the history of SEC football. Only Jordan at Auburn, General Neyland at Tennessee, and Steve Spurrier at South Carolina had seven successive seasons with neither an increase in losses or a decrease in wins.

And I argued that the clearest foundation of that first phase was Stoop’s 2014 Class that ranked as high as 19th in the nation. Three huge names from that 2014 class played their last game on January 1, 2019, in Darius West and Mike Edwards and Bunchy Stallings. Those three, and others such as Boom Williams, formed much of the core of Stoops’ early modest successes from 2014-2018.

Going forward from the 2019 Citrus Bowl, Kentucky would have to rely on a succession of classes that were more modestly rated than was 2014’s. I further argued that the 2019 season would likely represent “the floor” of what we might expect for the three or four seasons following the 2019 Citrus Bowl.

2019 ended at 8-5, and the COVID season of ‘20, at 5-6, each with bowl trophies.

Now with the ‘21/‘22 transfers of the likes of Will Levis, Dare Rosenthal, Wan Dale Robinson, the new Robinson from VPI, AND a Top 10 recruiting Class for ‘22, I think a new era is being born in Lexington.

Achieving a 9-3/5-3 record in the SEC, the 4th best SEC slate for ‘21 [with only the 12th best recruiting classes the 4 prior years] has confirmed what the 2018 season suggested: Stoops wins more games than the quality of his recruits might suggest.

And the nation’s recruits have taken notice.

I suspect Stoop’s can continue to advance both the perceived floor and ceiling of the program in the next 3/4 seasons, and he seems very content to continue that process at Kentucky.

I think a lot will depend on if he can keep the majority of his staff together.

 

[bluecoon1]

I think a lot will depend on if he can keep the majority of his staff together.

A sign of a good program is when everyone’s trying to snag your coaches, much like we saw with Stoops, White, and Sumrall this year. I understand what you’re saying but I think it depends more on who Stoops can get to fill those empty slots.

 

[UKPRO]

A sign of a good program is when everyone’s trying to snag your coaches, much like we saw with Stoops, White, and Sumrall this year. I understand what you’re saying but I think it depends more on who Stoops can get to fill those empty slots.

I agree to a point, Stoops has replaced several of his assistant coaches. Most all of the replacements have been successful, in my opinion. I now trust he is good at picking those coaches. I mean Coen has been a homerun. White has been almost as good, I would categorize as a bit shorter homerun hire. It is good although scary for your assistants to be hired else where. It is a show of success. I feel like Stoops will have a high percentage of good hires from here on. He has a pretty good percentage now.

 

[Kicking ass in the bluegrass]

It has helped that during this second phase other programs in the East have been in decline or turmoil…Tenn seems to be getting their crap back together, jury still out on Beamer at SC, now Florida seems to be taking dip…the next phase has to include playing Tenn and Florida close to even (we have given away several games to those two teams that we should have won during the Stoops era so far)

 

[sieken]

This year proved to me how far Stoops has come with the program for a couple of reasons. We have had winning seasons in the past, usually they included a losing or even record in conference. We had a new offense to being the season, all of the talk early was about playing complimentary football, I think the staff came together and did that. There were less bombs later in the season and more about taking what the defense was giving us. The injuries were unusual in that they mainly all occurred on the DLine, the staff came together, got some of the young guys ready to play a lot more than they were used to. Those injuries probably cost us a game or two but in years past, likely would have submarined the season. A testament to the recruiting this staff has been doing. Some have mentioned Marrow and his salary, I think he is the most important person on staff to continue on the right path. The relationships that Marrow has cultivated in Kentucky and Ohio is hard to put a price tag on IMO. The best schemes in the world wouldn't matter if we didn't have the talent and depth to execute them.

 

[The-Hack]

I think a lot will depend on if he can keep the majority of his staff together.

With four offensive coordinators from 2013-2021, and three defensive coordinators in the same period, staff continuity does not seem to be necessary for Stoops to continue success, or improve upon it.

Keeping Stoops and the Big Dog, or “the core” is certainly important.

 

[Soupbean]

I brought a thread back up from the Spring of 2019, where I suggested the first phase of the Stoops’ era had come to an end, and the second phase had begun.

The first phase from 2013 to 2018 comprised six seasons of linear progress surpassed only three times in the history of SEC football. Only Jordan at Auburn, General Neyland at Tennessee, and Steve Spurrier at South Carolina had seven successive seasons with neither an increase in losses or a decrease in wins.

And I argued that the clearest foundation of that first phase was Stoop’s 2014 Class that ranked as high as 19th in the nation. Three huge names from that 2014 class played their last game on January 1, 2019, in Darius West and Mike Edwards and Bunchy Stallings. Those three, and others such as Boom Williams, formed much of the core of Stoops’ early modest successes from 2014-2018.

Going forward from the 2019 Citrus Bowl, Kentucky would have to rely on a succession of classes that were more modestly rated than was 2014’s. I further argued that the 2019 season would likely represent “the floor” of what we might expect for the three or four seasons following the 2019 Citrus Bowl.

2019 ended at 8-5, and the COVID season of ‘20, at 5-6, each with bowl trophies.

Now with the ‘21/‘22 transfers of the likes of Will Levis, Dare Rosenthal, Wan Dale Robinson, the new Robinson from VPI, AND a Top 10 recruiting Class for ‘22, I think a new era is being born in Lexington.

Achieving a 9-3/5-3 record in the SEC, the 4th best SEC slate for ‘21 [with only the 12th best recruiting classes the 4 prior years] has confirmed what the 2018 season suggested: Stoops wins more games than the quality of his recruits might suggest.

And the nation’s recruits have taken notice.

I suspect Stoop’s can continue to advance both the perceived floor and ceiling of the program in the next 3/4 seasons, and he seems very content to continue that process at Kentucky.

Competing in the SEC is like compressing a big spring, the more you compress it the tougher it gets to make progress and even harder to maintain and hold where you are.

But there is no question we have built some internal strengths to help up try and do that that we never had before and better talent and continuity in coach is are big ones. To reach new levels you usually need a few transformational/special talent level players as well. Hopefully there's a couple in this class.

But one thing you said about the floor is so true. Its hard to play an SEC schedule and come out over .500 and its even harder to win the big time games against the big time programs, but I can say rather confidently that I'm comfortable feeling like I no longer doubt we can line up and have a shot at any of them anymore.

 

[BigTimeBecks3500]

You could liken the progress to a golfer getting better.

We’ve gone from shooting in the 90s when Stoops got here, down into the mid 80s a few years in, now we are consistently shooting mid 70s. The next step is the become a scratch, which takes ten times the hard work as the previous 2 steps combined. Assuming this class holds up as a top 15, we will need to stack another several consecutive years of the same recruiting success to take the next step. Stoops seems committed to just that.

Worst case, he maintains what he’s been doing and we finish .500 or better in the SEC most years and play in a decent to very good bowl game. That’s a lot more than we could say for the previous 50 years.

 

[The-Hack]

That’s a lot more than we could say for the previous 50 years.

And for the few cynics left who claim our mediocre past should not be used as a measuring stick for Stoops’ success, I would ask, “why not.”

Stoops’ elevation of the program over the mediocrity of the prior 50 (70) years is the strongest indicator I could think of, showing a capacity to do even more.

Using the golf analogy, I bet few golfers hit in the 90’s and drop to the 70’s rapidly.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I think a lot will depend on if he can keep the majority of his staff together.

The more successful your program the more other places come after your coaches. You guys are seeing that now. Look at the number of coaches UK has had to fight to retain. The only way it stops is if success stops.

 

[BigTimeBecks3500]

And for the few cynics left who claim our mediocre past should not be used as a measuring stick for Stoops’ success, I would ask, “why not.”

Stoops’ elevation of the program over the mediocrity of the prior 50 (70) years is the strongest indicator I could think of, showing a capacity to do even more.

Using the golf analogy, I bet few golfers hit in the 90’s and drop to the 70’s rapidly.

Exactly. It’s a process. And it’s working.

 

[Fast3ddy]

It has helped that during this second phase other programs in the East have been in decline or turmoil…Tenn seems to be getting their crap back together, jury still out on Beamer at SC, now Florida seems to be taking dip…the next phase has to include playing Tenn and Florida close to even (we have given away several games to those two teams that we should have won during the Stoops era so far)

I don’t understand this turmoil argument. I’m not getting onto ya or anything, so please don’t take it as an attack. What I see is KY coming up and snatching recruits from these schools that are in turmoil. So now that UK is getting them, they’re losing quality recruits. Same goes for staff. We’re getting better staff these other schools usually get. So they’re quality I feel is going to naturally decline because the eyes are now on us and not the other programs. Does that make sense or am I talking out of my ass? Lol

 

[The-Hack]

So they’re quality I feel is going to naturally decline because the eyes are now on us and not the other programs. Does that make sense or am I talking out of my ass? Lol

Makes a lot of sense.

The transfer portal has given programs with perceived stability and upward trajectories a faster way to change and improve.

And programs with self-inflicted problems now can fall apart faster.

Frankly, NIL and the transfer portal were tailor-made for a rise in Kentucky football fortunes!

 

[travisbickle]

I don’t understand this turmoil argument. I’m not getting onto ya or anything, so please don’t take it as an attack. What I see is KY coming up and snatching recruits from these schools that are in turmoil. So now that UK is getting them, they’re losing quality recruits. Same goes for staff. We’re getting better staff these other schools usually get. So they’re quality I feel is going to naturally decline because the eyes are now on us and not the other programs. Does that make sense or am I talking out of my ass? Lol

Makes sense to me. All SEC teams have used the turmoil of UK’s entire history to pilfer most of our recruits from in-state in the past. One of the (many) reasons UK has stayed down for so long. The strong feeding off the weak.

 

[Backer cutter]

And for the few cynics left who claim our mediocre past should not be used as a measuring stick for Stoops’ success, I would ask, “why not.”

Stoops’ elevation of the program over the mediocrity of the prior 50 (70) years is the strongest indicator I could think of, showing a capacity to do even more.

Using the golf analogy, I bet few golfers hit in the 90’s and drop to the 70’s rapidly.

Rest assured they don’t. Trimming a few strokes off takes thousands and thousands of shots. Most people don’t have the time for it.

 

[Crums Bald Spot]

The more successful your program the more other places come after your coaches. You guys are seeing that now. Look at the number of coaches UK has had to fight to retain. The only way it stops is if success stops.

Agreed, grumpy. However, the upside of folks poaching your coaches means higher quality coaches will want to work for you. They see you as a path to advancement and someone they would want to learn from.

 

[sieken]

I don’t understand this turmoil argument. I’m not getting onto ya or anything, so please don’t take it as an attack. What I see is KY coming up and snatching recruits from these schools that are in turmoil. So now that UK is getting them, they’re losing quality recruits. Same goes for staff. We’re getting better staff these other schools usually get. So they’re quality I feel is going to naturally decline because the eyes are now on us and not the other programs. Does that make sense or am I talking out of my ass? Lol

Coaches really do want to work for Stoops. Coen was glowing about the environment he found when he.got here, Sumrall is pulling double duty because he wanted to finish for the kids and staff, and Settle said that's why he came here, there was something special going and he wanted to be a part of it.

 

[Girthang]

When we talk about the demise of others in our division, but where did their demise start? Has UK not played a part in it? We had knocked at the doors of beating UF and UT for years before doing so to each 2 of the last 4-5 years.

The wins finally came. Was it only because we crawled up, or only because they slipped down, or was it both? We crawled up with lower rated classes every single year until this one (and it still may finish below Florida or others in our conference that are below us right now).

It's not like UF stopped getting great recruits. They didn't. UT still had better rated classes than us for most of our previous years if not all. We have to stop giving so much credit to others falling at some point, just like we have to at some point acknowledge what this staff has done with relatively (according to perceived "experts") less.

 

[fredmanthecatfan]

No one benefited more than a down East was Missouri. Probably the worst East Champ since we have had 2 divisions. We just had not climbed out of the cellar yet.
Now UGA is the bully of the East. UF was set to challenge, but they imploded.
UT is “trying “ to challenge for that second spot. Right now we are in that spot. We have to both maintain while decreasing the gap between us and UGA.

 

[pickled cat]

It has helped that during this second phase other programs in the East have been in decline or turmoil…Tenn seems to be getting their crap back together, jury still out on Beamer at SC, now Florida seems to be taking dip…the next phase has to include playing Tenn and Florida close to even (we have given away several games to those two teams that we should have won during the Stoops era so far)

What you say is true, but back in the days of old ky would lose to those teams you say are struggling. Thank goodness for the stability Stoops has given this program.

 

[K_TIME]

I don't get all the East is down is why UK has succeeded stuff.

1. Is not part of why East appears to be down is UK is pulling in W's against those teams when in most years it was Ls? Has USC really been down or has UK winning 5 of 6 kept them down. Was Mullen really a bad coach or did UK take 2 wins vs. him and it snowballed a bit as part of UF knee jerk reaction? While Tennessee has not worked out as many wins as I'd hope...we have won 2 times under Stoops.
2. Why do we believe so strongly UK is going to be dropping our performance going forward?
- With Coen on board...we have a better offense going forward do we not?
- Is the D looking like it's going to slip?

- At one time, Butch Jones had many believing Tennessee was on the verge....until it was not - Muschamp at
- USC was reeling in Dabo Samuels, Scott Bentley at QB and some very good recruiting classes...and we go on to win nearly every game vs. him
- Florida with unknown BIlly Napier and a pretty bad class in his first year.....it looks alot more likely we win more than we lose vs. Florida going forward

 

[Kicking ass in the bluegrass]

My point was never that our success was based on the turmoil of some other SEC East teams, but it‘s a fact our rise has happened during a down period for UT and SC. stoops has, imo, pulled us even with Tennessee in every respect…recruiting, depth, size, speed, talent positions…that’s why I say we now need to start playing them and Florida even, with the goal of winning 7/10…we can’t give anymore games away to UT and UF, and I have complete confidence that Stoops will get us to that next phase

 

[BigTimeBecks3500]

My point was never that our success was based on the turmoil of some other SEC East teams, but it‘s a fact our rise has happened during a down period for UT and SC. stoops has, imo, pulled us even with Tennessee in every respect…recruiting, depth, size, speed, talent positions…that’s why I say we now need to start playing them and Florida even, with the goal of winning 7/10…we can’t give anymore games away to UT and UF, and I have complete confidence that Stoops will get us to that next phase

We need to keep dominating the bottom of the East (vandy/Mizzou/USCjr) and figuring out a way to go .500 vs UGA/UF/TN, and our west opponents. With 4 automatic OOC wins on the schedule every year plus Louisville, our base going forward should be 7 wins with a decent shot at 9 and a real shot at 10.

 

[megablue]

With four offensive coordinators from 2013-2021, and three defensive coordinators in the same period, staff continuity does not seem to be necessary for Stoops to continue success, or improve upon it.

Keeping Stoops and the Big Dog, or “the core” is certainly important.

He’s trying to bend the curve on assistants leaving. Hopefully, he will be successful.

 

[megablue]

With four offensive coordinators from 2013-2021, and three defensive coordinators in the same period, staff continuity does not seem to be necessary for Stoops to continue success, or improve upon it.

Keeping Stoops and the Big Dog, or “the core” is certainly important.

He’s trying to bend the curve on assistants. Hopefully, he will be successful

 

[The-Hack]

With 4 automatic OOC wins on the schedule every year plus Louisville, our base going forward should be 7 wins with a decent shot at 9 and a real shot at 10.

Uh, Louisville is one of the four guaranteed OOC wins.

 

[The-Hack]

I don't get all the East is down is why UK has succeeded stuff.

Yep.

When you see it, you have to question either the football acumen of the poster, or wonder if they are a long-term troll.

Just look at the wins over LSU and Florida this season . . . had they been losses, both Florida and LSU would be in better bowls, and likely have retained their coaches.

Instead, LSU and Florida received mid-season reality checks that shook their world in a shaking Kroger Field.

Not unlike those multiple .500 (+\~) seasons with HOF Coach Claiborne: boat race a bowl bound Clemson at home (1985) and win nary an SEC road game.

Neither the SEC East nor the SEC are down, but rather the continued compression of talent into the 14 SEC schools has rendered it very balanced and non-linear . . . .

If the 10th best recruiting class in your conference ranks as 21st, nationally, God only knows who will win a game on a given Saturday afternoon in the SEC.

Coach Stoops ain’t just talking Coach talk when he says every Saturday in the SEC is a chance to do something special, and also a chance to be embarrassed. Show up anywhere in the SEC without your head on right, and get crushed like Auburn and UF at South Carolina and LSU at Kentucky this last season. Auburn and Florida lost to Bama (1) in overtime and (2) by two points, but USCe spanked them like redheaded step-children in Columbia, SC.

The SEC is a nasty, unforgiving bitch of a conference.

 

[BigTimeBecks3500]

Uh, Louisville is one of the four guaranteed OOC wins.

Well we have 4 cupcakes plus Louisville is what I meant. Lol

 

[SECCountry75]

I brought a thread back up from the Spring of 2019, where I suggested the first phase of the Stoops’ era had come to an end, and the second phase had begun.

The first phase from 2013 to 2018 comprised six seasons of linear progress surpassed only three times in the history of SEC football. Only Jordan at Auburn, General Neyland at Tennessee, and Steve Spurrier at South Carolina had seven successive seasons with neither an increase in losses or a decrease in wins.

And I argued that the clearest foundation of that first phase was Stoop’s 2014 Class that ranked as high as 19th in the nation. Three huge names from that 2014 class played their last game on January 1, 2019, in Darius West and Mike Edwards and Bunchy Stallings. Those three, and others such as Boom Williams, formed much of the core of Stoops’ early modest successes from 2014-2018.

Going forward from the 2019 Citrus Bowl, Kentucky would have to rely on a succession of classes that were more modestly rated than was 2014’s. I further argued that the 2019 season would likely represent “the floor” of what we might expect for the three or four seasons following the 2019 Citrus Bowl.

2019 ended at 8-5, and the COVID season of ‘20, at 5-6, each with bowl trophies.

Now with the ‘21/‘22 transfers of the likes of Will Levis, Dare Rosenthal, Wan Dale Robinson, the new Robinson from VPI, AND a Top 10 recruiting Class for ‘22, I think a new era is being born in Lexington.

Achieving a 9-3/5-3 record in the SEC, the 4th best SEC slate for ‘21 [with only the 12th best recruiting classes the 4 prior years] has confirmed what the 2018 season suggested: Stoops wins more games than the quality of his recruits might suggest.

And the nation’s recruits have taken notice.

I suspect Stoop’s can continue to advance both the perceived floor and ceiling of the program in the next 3/4 seasons, and he seems very content to continue that process at Kentucky.

I understand what you are saying, but we do not have to overthink this. When Stoops first came to Lexington, he stood at a podium and described his expectations. He wanted to win the hearts of the big blue nation, recruit outstanding student athletes, and develop a football program that could win the SEC championship. If we want to look at this in terms of phases, there are your phases. Recruiting improved as soon as Stoops took the job. His 2014 class was evidence of that, but every one of Stoops' classes has included players no previous UK football coach could have lured to Lexington. Stoops' 2022 class is borderline top 10, which has never happened at UK before. But I will argue that Stoops will eventually recruit better classes than this one. The thing about recruiting is that classes are validated by performance on the football field, which takes time to play out. That is why Vince Marrow still regards 2015 as his best class. Stoops is still building his recruiting strength.

Most of UK's fan base was won over after 2016, when Stoops signed another strong class and took UK to a bowl. But some doubters lingered, and they continued to voice their dissent online and on radio shows until Benny Snell's team beat Florida in The Swamp and then won the Citrus Bowl. That forced most of the depressing downers to capitulate. A few still linger even now, but nobody takes them seriously anymore because Stoops is about to overtake The Bear.

That brings us to Stoops' stated goal, winning the SEC championship. At this point, Stoops has beaten ranked teams in bowls, recruited unprecedented classes, and sent multiple UK players to the 1st round of the NFL draft. When Stoops recently signed Kiyaunta Goodwin, he sent a message that was not quite possible earlier when Damien Harris and Jedrick Wills went to Bama. But Stoops has not yet coached in the SEC championship game. That will be the next phase, so to speak. I have no doubt he will get us there.

 

[backinky2018]

Good post, OP.

Another key element is the schedule. I never make an apology for winning 9 games in the SEC, but the key to UK's football future is what happens when OU and Texas enter the league. UK has improved mightily, but maintaining (or gaining) what has been built is helped by getting to play Vandy, South Carolina, and mizzou every year. If we lose two of those and gain two tougher foes, then that hurts. I'm not saying that UK can't beat Ole Miss or A&M or Arkansas, but the odds of consistently beating some of the west teams are longer than what we currently face.

 

[BigTimeBecks3500]

Good post, OP.

Another key element is the schedule. I never make an apology for winning 9 games in the SEC, but the key to UK's football future is what happens when OU and Texas enter the league. UK has improved mightily, but maintaining (or gaining) what has been built is helped by getting to play Vandy, South Carolina, and mizzou every year. If we lose two of those and gain two tougher foes, then that hurts. I'm not saying that UK can't beat Ole Miss or A&M or Arkansas, but the odds of consistently beating some of the west teams are longer than what we currently face.

Good post. While I know we are going in the right direction, let’s not forget that Stoops’ record in the SEC vs everyone but VU, USC, Mizzou is 9-38. He has dominated those three bottom teams but we need to really start playing .500 ball vs the rest of the conference.

 

[SECCountry75]

Good post, OP.

Another key element is the schedule. I never make an apology for winning 9 games in the SEC, but the key to UK's football future is what happens when OU and Texas enter the league. UK has improved mightily, but maintaining (or gaining) what has been built is helped by getting to play Vandy, South Carolina, and mizzou every year. If we lose two of those and gain two tougher foes, then that hurts. I'm not saying that UK can't beat Ole Miss or A&M or Arkansas, but the odds of consistently beating some of the west teams are longer than what we currently face.

Have you considered that the downward slides of South Carolina and Missouri within the SEC east are directly related to Stoops outworking, outcoaching, and outperforming them? Their declines haven't happened in isolation. What are their records against Stoops? Previously, Missouri was the strongest program in the SEC east. Stoops literally forced Steve Spurrier into retirement. Winning is a zero sum outcome. When a program like UK prospers, other teams pay the price for being outplayed. Then the consequences snowball in terms of recruiting and coaching changes.

 

[backinky2018]

Have you considered that the downward slides of South Carolina and Missouri within the SEC east are directly related to Stoops outworking, outcoaching, and outperforming them? Their declines haven't happened in isolation. What are their records against Stoops? Previously, Missouri was the strongest program in the SEC east. Stoops literally forced Steve Spurrier into retirement. Winning is a zero sum outcome. When a program like UK prospers, other teams pay the price for being outplayed. Then the consequences snowball in terms of recruiting and coaching changes.

Totally fair points. Like I said above, I will NEVER apologize for 9-3 / 5-3 playing in the SEC. South Carolina wasn't great this year, but they still recruit at a high level, have great resources, and have a good homefield advantage that made it tough to win in WIlliams Brice.

I guess where I stand by my assertion is that if you ask me if Stoops can have more success getting to play USC / VU / MU every single year or getting to play only one of them + an assortment of Texas / OU / LSU / Bama / AU, etc then I'll take the current scenario every day of the week.

 

[The-Hack]

an assortment of Texas / OU / LSU / Bama / AU, etc then I'll take the current scenario every day of the week.

I see what you are saying, and I hope it is 2-3 seasons before this fully shakes out.

It appears that Stoops came “just in time” to gird us for the coming changes.

And as to Oklahoma and especially Texas, bring ‘em on!

We’ll likely end up in four pods, with significant scheduling alterations year-to-year.

 

[The-Hack]

But I will argue that Stoops will eventually recruit better classes than this one.

Yes. And the continuous progression, even with a small step back in wins is essentially what I am talking about.

Some few point to an individual loss or two, to suggest Stoops has reached his ceiling.

As late as October, one poster suggested Stoops’ ceiling was 8 wins . . . though he had won 10 in 2018/19, and still had a good shot at it in 2021/22. [Hell, the simple fact that we now have the put a “slash” describing our seasons as rolling over to January 1st is a pretty stunning development.].

And I guess my thinking of “phases” is a refutation of putting a ceiling on UK Football with Stoops. If in his early years he can lift a moribund program to winning seasons, isn’t it reasonable to hope/assume a future with ten wins?

And with double-digit winning seasons, is it not reasonable to hope and expect Top 15 classes; and when that is achieved, to hope and expect for even more?

A small but persistent fraction of fans seem to think Rome was built in a day, that Stoops should be far ahead of our current status, etc.

I believe we are headed to the very top, but recognize that “steps” or “stages” had to be achieved to get us where we are, and are still needed to get us where we are headed.

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

Competing in the SEC is like compressing a big spring, the more you compress it the tougher it gets to make progress and even harder to maintain and hold where you are.

But there is no question we have built some internal strengths to help up try and do that that we never had before and better talent and continuity in coach is are big ones. To reach new levels you usually need a few transformational/special talent level players as well. Hopefully there's a couple in this class.

But one thing you said about the floor is so true. Its hard to play an SEC schedule and come out over .500 and its even harder to win the big time games against the big time programs, but I can say rather confidently that I'm comfortable feeling like I no longer doubt we can line up and have a shot at any of them anymore.

That is actually the best comparison I’ve seen.

 

[vhcat70]

Have you considered that the downward slides of South Carolina and Missouri within the SEC east are directly related to Stoops outworking, outcoaching, and outperforming them? Their declines haven't happened in isolation. What are their records against Stoops? Previously, Missouri was the strongest program in the SEC east. Stoops literally forced Steve Spurrier into retirement. Winning is a zero sum outcome. When a program like UK prospers, other teams pay the price for being outplayed. Then the consequences snowball in terms of recruiting and coaching changes.

Doesn't need to be. There are intradivision games to help keep a school's record up. Trouble is, over last 5 seasons East is -23 in games against West or over -4 per year. Net, SC & MO have dropped independent of UK's advance.

 

[Deeeefense]

Good post, OP.

Another key element is the schedule. I never make an apology for winning 9 games in the SEC, but the key to UK's football future is what happens when OU and Texas enter the league. UK has improved mightily, but maintaining (or gaining) what has been built is helped by getting to play Vandy, South Carolina, and mizzou every year. If we lose two of those and gain two tougher foes, then that hurts. I'm not saying that UK can't beat Ole Miss or A&M or Arkansas, but the odds of consistently beating some of the west teams are longer than what we currently face.

The respective strength of the divisions is constantly changing. Several years ago the East was dominate, the West with Bama's run now is viewed as stronger. But in the East you have UT starting to make a comeback, Junior and MIzzou just landed very high ranked classes, and all three of these teams now seem to have solved their coaching challenges, for now anyway, and how long does Florida stay down? In the West Auburn has slide to being an average mid-tier team, LSU is looking at rebuilding and A&M never seems to play quite up to their talent.

I honestly don't think there is much difference in the divisions right now.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

Competing in the SEC is like compressing a big spring, the more you compress it the tougher it gets to make progress and even harder to maintain and hold where you are.

But there is no question we have built some internal strengths to help up try and do that that we never had before and better talent and continuity in coach is are big ones. To reach new levels you usually need a few transformational/special talent level players as well. Hopefully there's a couple in this class.

But one thing you said about the floor is so true. Its hard to play an SEC schedule and come out over .500 and its even harder to win the big time games against the big time programs, but I can say rather confidently that I'm comfortable feeling like I no longer doubt we can line up and have a shot at any of them anymore.

Loved the spring analogy...it's a perfect fit.