The Steady Increase In Talent Under Stoops

[The-Hack]

Going back to Stoops’ first signing class, 2013, and working forward in four year “clumps,” it’s interesting to see the slow but steady growth of talent.

Here is the sequential list of the total 4/5 Rivals ranked players in each 4 year period:

2013-2016: 20
2014-2017: 21
2015-2018: 14
2016-2019: 16
2017-2020: 20
2018-2021: 19
2019-2022: 27
2020-2023: 32
2021-2024: 29
2022-2025: 34 (to date).

Ironically, two of the smaller 4 year cumulative totals 2015-2018 (14) and 2018-2021 (19) produced our Citrus Bowl wins. Three Stars Josh Allen, Bennie Snell, Logan Stenberg, Levis, etc., played big roles on those teams, along with the transfer portal (not included in these numbers).

And the most recent number, above, is not done yet. We might add to the current haul of 8 for our ‘25 Class.

If we counted our 4/5 Star transfers, we are getting Oh-So-Close to the magical 50% Blue Chip ratio exhibited by the last 25+ years of BCS/Playoff teams.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Going back to Stoops’ first signing class, 2013, and working forward in four year “clumps,” it’s interesting to see the slow but steady growth of talent.

Here is the sequential list of the total 4/5 Rivals ranked players in each 4 year period:

2013-2016: 20
2014-2017: 21
2015-2018: 14
2016-2019: 16
2017-2020: 20
2018-2021: 19
2019-2022: 27
2020-2023: 32
2021-2024: 29
2022-2025: 34 (to date).

Ironically, two of the smaller 4 year cumulative totals 2015-2018 (14) and 2018-2021 (19) produced our Citrus Bowl wins. Three Stars Josh Allen, Bennie Snell, Logan Stenberg, Levis, etc., played big roles on those teams, along with the transfer portal (not included in these numbers).

And the most recent number, above, is not done yet. We might add to the current haul of 8 for our ‘25 Class.

If we counted our 4/5 Star transfers, we are getting Oh-So-Close to the magical 50% Blue Chip ratio exhibited by the last 25+ years of BCS/Playoff teams.

I am likely going to get in trouble for this Hack. But 7-8 years ago I said the one complaint I would have about CMS was he didn't target the high end kids. And was told by multiple posters UK couldn't sign those kind of kids. My response to that was the only 100% sure way not to sign a kid is not recruit him. We'll here we are, all those years later and UK has set their sites higher and signing those kids. Now I am going to step on some toes I guess, the kids and their families read these boards, if they see multiple posters saying the AD isn't taking care of football, is that going to help or hurt with a football player? From my point it looks like CMS has gotten everything he asked for, maybe not as quick as some want but IPF, recruiting lounges, modern players lounges aren't free.

 

[mrschwump]

I am likely going to get in trouble for this Hack. But 7-8 years ago I said the one complaint I would have about CMS was he didn't target the high end kids. And was told by multiple posters UK couldn't sign those kind of kids. My response to that was the only 100% sure way not to sign a kid is not recruit him. We'll here we are, all those years later and UK has set their sites higher and signing those kids. Now I am going to step on some toes I guess, the kids and their families read these boards, if they see multiple posters saying the AD isn't taking care of football, is that going to help or hurt with a football player? From my point it looks like CMS has gotten everything he asked for, maybe not as quick as some want but IPF, recruiting lounges, modern players lounges aren't free.

Agreed, will never get the higher ranked guy if you don't try. My hope is UK gets to the point where they sign 12-15 4* or higher/year. Not there just yet but getting closer and that's doable.

 

[Cobb4uk]

I am likely going to get in trouble for this Hack. But 7-8 years ago I said the one complaint I would have about CMS was he didn't target the high end kids. And was told by multiple posters UK couldn't sign those kind of kids. My response to that was the only 100% sure way not to sign a kid is not recruit him. We'll here we are, all those years later and UK has set their sites higher and signing those kids. Now I am going to step on some toes I guess, the kids and their families read these boards, if they see multiple posters saying the AD isn't taking care of football, is that going to help or hurt with a football player? From my point it looks like CMS has gotten everything he asked for, maybe not as quick as some want but IPF, recruiting lounges, modern players lounges aren't free.

Grump, I usually agree with most all your comments and you couldn't be more correct. It's a shame it takes a fan of another institution to look through the BS put out by some poster and post the truth.

Back in the 80's I was transferred to the Birmingham, AL and I was taken back by the respect our football program had in that area. My good friend was a student manager while the Bear was there and I went to a lot of game and met numerous former players. Most of the former players I met that had played against UK all talked about how rough & tough UK played, and how beat up they were the next week. Seems we always use to play most everyone close until the last part of the 3rd quarter and then came the dreaded 4th quarter, no depth. There are times you better be happy with what you have compared to what everyone else has, talent wise.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I am likely going to get in trouble for this Hack. But 7-8 years ago I said the one complaint I would have about CMS was he didn't target the high end kids. And was told by multiple posters UK couldn't sign those kind of kids. My response to that was the only 100% sure way not to sign a kid is not recruit him. We'll here we are, all those years later and UK has set their sites higher and signing those kids. Now I am going to step on some toes I guess, the kids and their families read these boards, if they see multiple posters saying the AD isn't taking care of football, is that going to help or hurt with a football player? From my point it looks like CMS has gotten everything he asked for, maybe not as quick as some want but IPF, recruiting lounges, modern players lounges aren't free.

I agree but we had to incrementally get there. For a while, we had literally nothing but playing time to offer. No nfl, no hopes of winning. No proven development. No tradition.

Stoops took who he could get through eval and develop and kept working up the recruiting rankings.

Imo he did it the only way it could be done..

 

[Deeeefense]

I recall reading a post recently where someone looked up the HS rankings of all the scholarship players on UKs roster and it came out that almost half are 4 star+. I remember when Joker was here if we got a commit from just one 4 star it was like cause for a celebration.

As long as we keep making steady progress like this I'll support this staff. The w/l went down a little last couple of years but progress usually doesn't move in a straight line. They have a good chance to keep moving up the ladder this year.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I agree but we had to incrementally get there. For a while, we had literally nothing but playing time to offer. No nfl, no hopes of winning. No proven development. No tradition.

Stoops took who he could get through eval and develop and kept working up the recruiting rankings.

Imo he did it the only way it could be done..

Looking at the picture objectively, what else could you expect? Clearly ADMB did his research. CMS had been at multiple schools, by his choice, he wasn't a long time assistant of who many consider the GOAT. He was the brother of a couple P5 coaches, one successful, the other not do much, he had improved defenses everywhere he had been. Some pros but nothing shouting success, and you are correct it wasn't easy and ADMB would have likely been supported if he had wanted to cut bait after year 2. But he was patient and it is paying off, now fans are talking about getting in the playoffs. I understand it hasn't been as quick as most would like, but UK would have had a tough time getting in the DII playoffs with its talent level when Stoops arrived

 

[Deeeefense]

So, the talent has "steadily improved" but in Stoops' 12th season as head coach, the Cats are AP Pre-Season #40.

I wouldn't judge any team by the preseason opinions of sports writers most of which probably couldn't name 5 players off our roster. Maybe it might be a good idea to wait and see what they actually DO with the increase in talent?

 

[Cobb4uk]

I recall reading a post recently where someone looked up the HS rankings of all the scholarship players on UKs roster and it came out that almost half are 4 star+. I remember when Joker was here if we got a commit from just one 4 star it was like cause for a celebration.

As long as we keep making steady progress like this I'll support this staff. The w/l went down a little last couple of years but progress usually doesn't move in a straight line. They have a good chance to keep moving up the ladder this year.

If I remember correctly there were only a couple of players on the whole squad that ran a 4.5 time in the 40 when Stoops arrived. The progress has been slow but amazingly consistent building the offensive and defense lines etc.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Looking at the picture objectively, what else could you expect? Clearly ADMB did his research. CMS had been at multiple schools, by his choice, he wasn't a long time assistant of who many consider the GOAT. He was the brother of a couple P5 coaches, one successful, the other not do much, he had improved defenses everywhere he had been. Some pros but nothing shouting success, and you are correct it wasn't easy and ADMB would have likely been supported if he had wanted to cut bait after year 2. But he was patient and it is paying off, now fans are talking about getting in the playoffs. I understand it hasn't been as quick as most would like, but UK would have had a tough time getting in the DII playoffs with its talent level when Stoops arrived

Im definitely not complaining. I just think he had s very intelligent approach rather than swinging for the fences when early on he was sure to strike out.

 

[Deeeefense]

Sure. But after 11 season Stoops is 30-55 in the SEC. One of those years Kentucky had a winning record in conference. Ten it did not. If the increase in talent has been steady, as the OP suggests, wouldn't it be fair to expect to win more than just over one out of three conference games?

And, what SEC school except, maybe Vanderbilt, would still be employing a coach in Year 12 who was 30-55 in SEC games?

You can certainly make the stats look worse than reality by factoring in the 2 win season and a roster full of MAC level talent Joker left them with as well as second rate facilities until they were upgraded, however the have made steady progress:
2 wins in 2013
5 wins 2014, 2015
7 wins 2016, 2017
10 wins 2018, 2021
they slide back to 7 the last couple of years trying to transition into a more modern offense realize the Gran ground/pound system had it's upper limits. Unfortunately they ran into some speed bumps. Progress in anything usually doesn't move in a straight line. The fact that they do not have the same resources as some of the top tier teams means they are getting a lot of bang for the buck right now. If you think some wonder boy coach from GO5 can come in here and recruit Ohio, Georgia, Michigan etc. at the same rate as Marrow; and bring in high profile coaches like Wolf and Hamdan and exceed what we have now you will likely be very disappointed.

We have more 4 star talent on the roster this year than than at any previous time, when is the last time we had a 5 star QB?, AA talent in all the defensive positions? The results will come but this is the SEC and everyone has a good team.

 

[WildcatofNati2]

Sure. But after 11 season Stoops is 30-55 in the SEC. One of those years Kentucky had a winning record in conference. Ten it did not. If the increase in talent has been steady, as the OP suggests, wouldn't it be fair to expect to win more than just over one out of three conference games?

And, what SEC school except, maybe Vanderbilt, would still be employing a coach in Year 12 who was 30-55 in SEC games?

He has two winning records against the SEC, not one, unless you concede that 2021 doesn't really count.

 

[tdcat]

40-23 since 2018. Ranks 6th in SEC, one game behind Florida. They are better than they were by any metric including putting players in the pros.

Am I satisfied, no, but I do think they have come a long way and I think we can all agree SEC football is the steepest of mountains to climb.

 

[UKnCincy]

Sure. But after 11 season Stoops is 30-55 in the SEC. One of those years Kentucky had a winning record in conference. Ten it did not. If the increase in talent has been steady, as the OP suggests, wouldn't it be fair to expect to win more than just over one out of three conference games?

And, what SEC school except, maybe Vanderbilt, would still be employing a coach in Year 12 who was 30-55 in SEC games?

The fact that our talent has significantly increased does not change the fact that we are still behind nearly every other SEC school. The gap is closing but it’s by no means closed.

Since the 2018 season, the average number of 4/5 stars on our roster each year ranks UK 11th out of the 14 SEC schools.

Here’s the SEC winning percentages for each school over that same time period.

1. UGA - 92%
2. Bama - 90%
3. LSU - 66%
4. aTm - 55%
5. UF - 54%
6. Tenn - 48%
7. Mizzou - 48%
8. Ole Miss - 47%
9. UK - 46%
10. Aub - 44%
11. SC - 38%
12. State - 38%
13. Ark - 22%
14. Vandy - 12%

Not a lot of separation between the schools ranked 6-10, and the fact that we’re so close given our talent level speaks well of Stoops’ performance. Only school doing a better job of punching above their weight is Mizzou.

 

[tdcat]

Sure. But after 11 season Stoops is 30-55 in the SEC. One of those years Kentucky had a winning record in conference. Ten it did not. If the increase in talent has been steady, as the OP suggests, wouldn't it be fair to expect to win more than just over one out of three conference games?

And, what SEC school except, maybe Vanderbilt, would still be employing a coach in Year 12 who was 30-55 in SEC games?

Let's add more perspective to how difficult the SEC is if you are not Alabama, Georgia or LSU.

I think these numbers will surprise.

Since 2018, only Alabama, Georgia, LSU, aTm and Florida have winning conference records. Nine teams have losing records.

Kentucky is ahead of Arkansas. Mississippi State, South Carolina, Auburn and Vandy. Kentucky is only one win behind Ole Miss, only two wins behind Tennessee and only two wins behind Missouri.

 

[The-Hack]

1. 
   4th aTm - 55%
   5th UF - 54%
   6th Tenn - 48%
   7th Mizzou - 48%
   8th Ole Miss - 47%
   9th UK - 46%
   10th Aub - 44%

[/LIST]

• 
  
  That is a very tight grouping between 4th and 9th, and the highest we would have completed in the SEC for 7 consecutive seasons since Bear Bryant was here.

 

[The-Hack]

One of those years Kentucky had a winning record in conference.

Uhhhh, two seasons with winning records . . . . our only two seasons with winning records in the SEC in 45 years, 1978-2023.

HOF Coach Claiborne and at least seven other coaches failed to snag a winning record in the SEC.

 

[vhcat70]

Going back to Stoops’ first signing class, 2013, and working forward in four year “clumps,” it’s interesting to see the slow but steady growth of talent.

Here is the sequential list of the total 4/5 Rivals ranked players in each 4 year period:

2013-2016: 20
2014-2017: 21
2015-2018: 14
2016-2019: 16
2017-2020: 20
2018-2021: 19
2019-2022: 27
2020-2023: 32
2021-2024: 29
2022-2025: 34 (to date).

Ironically, two of the smaller 4 year cumulative totals 2015-2018 (14) and 2018-2021 (19) produced our Citrus Bowl wins. Three Stars Josh Allen, Bennie Snell, Logan Stenberg, Levis, etc., played big roles on those teams, along with the transfer portal (not included in these numbers).

And the most recent number, above, is not done yet. We might add to the current haul of 8 for our ‘25 Class.

If we counted our 4/5 Star transfers, we are getting Oh-So-Close to the magical 50% Blue Chip ratio exhibited by the last 25+ years of BCS/Playoff teams.

Go look at the recruiting threads. Talent isn't about stars. I t's about who offers & coaches' evaluations. So OK which is it?

 

[The-Hack]

I t's about who offers & coaches' evaluations. So OK which is it?

Ranking by offers is a cool idea, but the only site that endeavored to do it, objectively, stopped about 6 years ago.

I do know that our recruits report a lot more offers than just a few years ago,
so I think that confirms growth.

 

[vhcat70]

Ranking by offers is a cool idea, but the only site that endeavored to do it, objectively, stopped about 6 years ago.

I do know that our recruits report a lot more offers than just a few years ago,
so I think that confirms growth.

I'm explicitly not talking about ranking but about who offered each recruit as a measure of their quality. To each their own as to which offers and their number decide which recruits are likely better/superior in their mind.

 

[USMC Cat]

I am likely going to get in trouble for this Hack. But 7-8 years ago I said the one complaint I would have about CMS was he didn't target the high end kids. And was told by multiple posters UK couldn't sign those kind of kids. My response to that was the only 100% sure way not to sign a kid is not recruit him. We'll here we are, all those years later and UK has set their sites higher and signing those kids. Now I am going to step on some toes I guess, the kids and their families read these boards, if they see multiple posters saying the AD isn't taking care of football, is that going to help or hurt with a football player? From my point it looks like CMS has gotten everything he asked for, maybe not as quick as some want but IPF, recruiting lounges, modern players lounges aren't free.

UKs current class is 24th.

#1 - #19 is exactly who you'd think it is - the same 20ish powerhouse football schools. So since nobody else is overtaking them either, I'm not sure what else you want other than for UK to pick up the campus and move it further south or along the coast.

UK is right between Wisconsin and Texas Tech. Did you imagine 10 years ago that you'd EVER see UK sandwiched between those two names?

I sure didn't.

UK has already jumped to the next tier in the SEC. We used to be at the Vandy/USC/Mizzou level. For the first time in my life, I don't go into a season expecting to get absolutely curb stomped by every conference opponent we play against.

And with the schedule the way it is this year, if UK can win one or two of the 50/50 games, we're going to end the season ranked and in a bowl game.

If that's not enough, you may as well quit watching.

 

[vhcat70]

UKs current class is 24th.

#1 - #19 is exactly who you'd think it is - the same 20ish powerhouse football schools. So since nobody else is overtaking them either, I'm not sure what else you want other than for UK to pick up the campus and move it further south or along the coast.

UK is right between Wisconsin and Texas Tech. Did you imagine 10 years ago that you'd EVER see UK sandwiched between those two names?

I sure didn't.

UK has already jumped to the next tier in the SEC. We used to be at the Vandy/USC/Mizzou level. For the first time in my life, I don't go into a season expecting to get absolutely curb stomped by every conference opponent we play against.

And with the schedule the way it is this year, if UK can win one or two of the 50/50 games, we're going to end the season ranked and in a bowl game.

If that's not enough, you may as well quit watching.

Remember this doesn't include portal transfers, so doesn't measure near the total player additions each year. Quite a bit different than even 5 years ago.