The poorest excuse for effort that I think I've ever seen!!

[spotter34]

He's not been the same since the surgery. Pre-2011 Dwight was definitely one of the five best players in the NBA.

This^

When he left Orlando for the money he hasn't been the same player. And I'm sorry but anytime a team fouls you on purpose you're no longer elite. He also should have been ejected from tonight's game. If Horford got a flagrant II foul called on him last night Howard deserved one tonight.

 

[shaudyshaud1]

​

Boogie is a good enough player but he's also the Randy Moss of the NBA.

Moss gets a bad wrap for being lazy. His I play when I want to play quote gets played over and over yet the media refuses to ever play the question he was asked

 

[McThick]

I honestly don't think 14 rebounds is superstar esque. That's just my opinion though and you know what they say about opinions. Lol

Lol, damn! I think 15 boards a game was tops in the league this year. Just how may rebounds does it take for you to consider that. Howard is averaging 14 in post season, which leads everyone

 

[BengalWACO]

And I'm sorry but anytime a team fouls you on purpose you're no longer elite.

SHAQ says hello. No, but with all seriousness, I understand what you are saying... but this is a different circumstance here.

 

[UKCATSFREAK]

Lol, damn! I think 15 boards a game was tops in the league this year. Just how may rebounds does it take for you to consider that. Howard is averaging 14 in post season, which leads everyone

Yeah, I guess you're right. That is a pretty nice stat.

 

[UK90]

And I'm sorry but anytime a team fouls you on purpose you're no longer elite. .

Really? Then you don't think Shaq was "elite" during his Laker title seasons? Teams tried the hack a shaq strategy on him constantly during those years, in fact that's when the term was created.

 

[LineSkiCat]

I don't know if Howard will ever have that killer instinct mentality. Like I said, he's just trying too hard to fit in. But I also don't understand why people dog him so much. Dude has been injured all year long, in a season where he was JUST getting back to his Orlando-form. And he's still killing it.

Dude had a bad stint in LA. When are we going to start questioning Kobe/Lakers/LA Media? When does the blame go on them? Howard did just fine in Orlando and is just fine in Houston. LA is now the odd one out.

 

[spotter34]

Really? Then you don't think Shaq was "elite" during his Laker title seasons? Teams tried the hack a shaq strategy on him constantly during those years, in fact that's when the term was created.

Well I knew someone would bring up Shaq and it's a decent comparison. I know I'm in the minority here and I don't care but I never considered Shaq elite. He was by far the best center during most of his time in the NBA but that doesn't make him an elite all-time center. He just didn't have a bunch of good centers during his era. He was a phenomenal athlete (especially in his younger years) for his size but he couldn't do anything offensively besides dunk the ball or make a shot within 8-10 feet of the basket. But again with his size and no other really elite centers he could get as close to the basket as he needed.

Olajuwon, Jabbar, and Moses Malone are the best all-around centers IMO. They could do everything. Can you imagine teams fouling any of these guys on purpose? Howard is a detriment to his team in close games. It's questionable if he should even be on the floor at crunch time. Same for Shaq. I'm sorry but any player that can't/shouldn't be on the floor in a close game is not elite. That's when an elite player shines. JMHO.

 

[UKcats1988]

Well I knew someone would bring up Shaq and it's a decent comparison. I know I'm in the minority here and I don't care but I never considered Shaq elite. He was by far the best center during most of his time in the NBA but that doesn't make him an elite all-time center. He just didn't have a bunch of good centers during his era. He was a phenomenal athlete (especially in his younger years) for his size but he couldn't do anything offensively besides dunk the ball or make a shot within 8-10 feet of the basket. But again with his size and no other really elite centers he could get as close to the basket as he needed.

Olajuwon, Jabbar, and Moses Malone are the best all-around centers IMO. They could do everything. Can you imagine teams fouling any of these guys on purpose? Howard is a detriment to his team in close games. It's questionable if he should even be on the floor at crunch time. Same for Shaq. I'm sorry but any player that can't/shouldn't be on the floor in a close game is not elite. That's when an elite player shines. JMHO.

Shaq isn't an all time elite center? Holy smokes you're actually being serious.

 

[UK90]

Well I knew someone would bring up Shaq and it's a decent comparison. I know I'm in the minority here and I don't care but I never considered Shaq elite. .
.

Wow. Never? Not even during those years when he was winning the MVP, leading the Lakers to three straight titles, winning three straight Finals MVP awards, and was the most unstoppable force in the game? Seriously?

Sorry, but the whole premise of your argument is simply wrong. Use of the hack a shaq strategy does not necessarily mean a player isn't elite, it just means he stinks at one aspect of the game: free throw shooting. Indeed, sometimes teams use that strategy BECAUSE the player is so awesome. Shaq is a good example, the reason he got intentionally fouled so much in his peak years is because he was such an unstoppable force when he got the ball down low that often the only real hope his defender had was to foul him and hope missed the free throws. If he'd stunk on the offensive end, they would not have bothered to foul him. So, in essence, his awesomeness was the reason he got intentionally fouled so often.

And, btw, a couple other players that used to occasionally get intentionally fouled for similar reasons were Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell. Do you also think that Wilt and Russell were never "elite"?

 

[jameslee32]

The Rockets scored 45 points in the 1st qtr of game 4. How lame is that?

 

[LineSkiCat]

Shaq DID have to play against Hakeem, Karl Malone (PF), and Barkley (PF), Oakley, Duncan, Ewing..... Maybe Shaq's time in the NBA didn't come against the best centers, but that was a tremendous era for "big men". Saying Shaq isn't Elite is a bad take man.

 

[king of cali]

Well I knew someone would bring up Shaq and it's a decent comparison. I know I'm in the minority here and I don't care but I never considered Shaq elite. He was by far the best center during most of his time in the NBA but that doesn't make him an elite all-time center. He just didn't have a bunch of good centers during his era. He was a phenomenal athlete (especially in his younger years) for his size but he couldn't do anything offensively besides dunk the ball or make a shot within 8-10 feet of the basket. But again with his size and no other really elite centers he could get as close to the basket as he needed.

Shaq isn't elite? The dude that ruled the NBA at the turn of the century isn't elite? I've never heard a more ridiculous take. And save the "he didn't play against good big men" bs. He played against plenty of them, including Ewing, Olajuwon, Duncan, Robinson, and the best defensive center of that era, Mutumbo. His peak years rival anything that Kareem and Moses did. His 3 finals MVP seasons are legendary. And he isn't elite? GTFO.

 

[spotter34]

Shaq was "elite" during his peak of his era but not elite as an all-time player. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right and you're wrong. It's my opinion.

Where big men are concerned I've always tried to determine how good they would have been if they were 6'6 or 6'7. Shaq would have been lucky to get a college scholarship. Everything about his game was due to his immense size. He was easily 50 to 75 pounds heavier (if not more) than anybody guarding him, not to mention at least a couple of inches taller. That's not a skill to be bigger and stronger than someone. It's just a genetic blessing. Olajuwon, Ewing, and Robinson easily would have played college ball and probably made it to the NBA if they were shorter. They each had AND DEVELOPED good basketball skills. All three were good shooters within 15-18 feet. They had tremendous footwork in the post (Olajuwon and Jabbar were almost unguardable). They were especially effective and dominant when the game was on the line because if you fouled them they would normally make their free throws.

In college, Olajuwon, Jabbar, and Ewing played in multiple title games with Ewing and Jabbar winning titles (Jabbar 3). Shaq in three years at LSU didn't get past the 2nd round on good rosters.

Shaq also got Ewing and Olajuwon on the backside of their careers. Somebody mentioned Mutombo? Shaq could break him over his leg. I look back at centers like Chamberlain (another poor FT shooter but was so dominant in every other area of the game), Russell, Jabbar, Moses Malone, Olajuwon, Ewing, Bill Walton. I'd take everyone of them over Shaq. When you put a Kobe Bryant next to a Shaq, championships are inevitable.

Just my take!

 

[GonzoCat90]

We know its your take, it's just completely incorrect by every conceivable measure, standard or analysis ever done.

 

[spotter34]

That's your opinion and probably most everyone on this board but not mine.

 

[Hoskins91]

Wilt isn't the exact same scenario? He played in an era where there were only a few people who could even hope to match him physically. With goaltending rules back then and the pace of play, I have a hard time believing Shaq couldn't accomplish similar things.

 

[WildMoon]

That's your opinion and probably most everyone on this board but not mine.

Opinion can be both wrong and stupid.

And yours is both wrong and stupid. Just accept that you are wrong.

Not only is Shaq all time great center, but he's also all-time great NBA player.... He's in discussion for top 10 best NBA player of all time...

 

[spotter34]

Didn't mean to hijack the thread.

 

[spotter34]

Opinion can be both wrong and stupid.

And yours is both wrong and stupid. Just accept that you are wrong.

Not only is Shaq all time great center, but he's also all-time great NBA player.... He's in discussion for top 10 best NBA player of all time...

This is laughable. Do you honestly think I'm going to change my opinion because it isn't popular? I could care less if anyone agrees with it or not. It's my opinion based on my criteria. Believe and think what you want. I am.

 

[Hoskins91]

He was the best player in the league for several years and one of the 15 best players of all time. I don't really get the point of penalizing someone because they are big. Athleticism and size matter in basketball.

 

[maverick1]

This is laughable. Do you honestly think I'm going to change my opinion because it isn't popular? I could care less if anyone agrees with it or not.

Just curious, but much less could you care?

 

[BengalWACO]

I understand what you are saying about the height/talent variable, I don't know how good the others centers you listed would have been if they were 6'6" or 6'7" as you said. I would think at aforementioned height Bill Russell and Akeem O. would have been fine... BUT, you take others you listed like Wilt, Jabbar, Malone, Ewing, David Robinson... I just don't see them doing the great things they did without the size they had WITH the other talents they had as well. It is a good discussion. I may not hold Shaq as the number 1 center ever... BUT, I would say he is at least in the top 10 history, which would make him elite. I loved watching him play, he was a special breed of player.

 

[spotter34]

I understand what you are saying about the height/talent variable, I don't know how good the others centers you listed would have been if they were 6'6" or 6'7" as you said. I would think at aforementioned height Bill Russell and Akeem O. would have been fine... BUT, you take others you listed like Wilt, Jabbar, Malone, Ewing, David Robinson... I just don't see them doing the great things they did without the size they had WITH the other talents they had as well. It is a good discussion. I may not hold Shaq as the number 1 center ever... BUT, I would say he is at least in the top 10 history, which would make him elite. I loved watching him play, he was a special breed of player.

Thanks for the post.

I would have Shaq in my top 10 all-time centers, just not top 10 all-time players.

 

[UKcats1988]

That's your opinion and probably most everyone on this board but not mine.

Your take on this is awful and one of the worst I've seen on this board about the NBA. Ewing over Shaq? That's ridiculous. Here's basic stats, without even diving into advanced numbers.

Player A- 24 points per game , 11 rebounds per game, 2 blocks per game , 26.4 PER, 3 finals MVP awards, 1 MVP award, 4 NBA championships.

Player B- 21points per game, 10 rebounds per game, 2 blocks per game, 21 PER, 1 NCAA championship.