Sumrall

[R.O.T.Muckinfush]

What is the love affair with this guy? While better than stoops, look at Tulanes last two games... they got stomped when playing decent competition and never really upset any of the big boys. Look at the mid major guys that went to nebraska and florida that crapped the bed and didn't do squat. Those coaches are very similar to sumrall if you ask me. Why would he be successful at UK?

 

[UKWildcats1987]

No one is going to be super successful at UK. NIL disadvantages are huge, potential to go to 9 game sec schedule, difficulty of conference overall, etc.

I think our fanbase (a portion of it) lives I'm a fantasy world. I'm ready to say bye to Stoops but 6 and 6 or 7 and 5 with maybe a once in a blue moon 8 or 9 win season are all I expect at UK.

 

[mrschwump]

What is the love affair with this guy? While better than stoops, look at Tulanes last two games... they got stomped when playing decent competition and never really upset any of the big boys. Look at the mid major guys that went to nebraska and florida that crapped the bed and didn't do squat. Those coaches are very similar to sumrall if you ask me. Why would he be successful at UK?

You're right, nobody asked you.

 

[truebluewildcat]

Nope!

I think we can all put that to bed now. The legend of Sumrall was largely over exaggerated.

That’s not to say he won’t continue to do well at Tulane or have a good career somewhere. Wish him all the best.

We already got a firery defensive coach hyped up on running and defense who can’t stop the run or running QBs.

If y’all want that style of ball then your guy was on the other sideline. Been saying for a while now that Monken should get more serious looks than what he does. If you can build a winning program at army you can build a winning program anywhere.

All the boo hooers on here who like to act like we’re so limited when our AD is literally top 20 in terms of money…

Army has restrictions. Academic, character/back ground, they can’t really do the portal dance or NIL…

 

[bthaunert]

What is the love affair with this guy? While better than stoops, look at Tulanes last two games... they got stomped when playing decent competition and never really upset any of the big boys. Look at the mid major guys that went to nebraska and florida that crapped the bed and didn't do squat. Those coaches are very similar to sumrall if you ask me. Why would he be successful at UK?

Any coach you get is going to be a risk. There is no automatic slam dunk hire…hiring coaches is a total crap shoot. While Frost and Napier (debateable) are examples of G5 guys that failed, Drinkwitz and Heupel are examples of guys from G5 who have succeeded. Any route you go (Coordinator, G5, current P4) have success stories and failures.

In the past 30 years, UK has hired a current P4 coach (Curry), FCS coach (Mumme), position coach (Morris), former P4 coach turned NFL coach (Brooks), internal coordinator (Joker) and external coordinator (Stoops). Some have worked to an extent, others have failed miserably.

With Sumrall…is it a risk…of course. All hires are. Does he have characteristics that coaches need to be successful…yes. He was the best recruiter on staff when he was here. Players love him. He has charisma to work with donors on NIL.

Is he the perfect candidate? No

Is he worth taking a shot on knowing he’s a UK grad and former coach that could build this into something long term if he succeeds? I would say yes.

Doesn’t mean I’m not open to other possibilities. If there is a better candidate that UK has a shot at, go for it. I’m just not sure who that is.

 

[southindycat]

Any coach you get is going to be a risk. There is no automatic slam dunk hire…hiring coaches is a total crap shoot. While Frost and Napier are examples of G5 guys that failed...

I'd hold the phone on Napier's failure.

 

[PopesReignOverCardinals]

There is a nostalgic enchantment of a former player becoming a coach. It's even worse when it's coupled with FOMO.

That said, Sumrall is actually up-and-coming and qualified unlike a lot of the names you see thrown around here. He checks a lot of boxes and seems worth the risk if we actually have a job opening.

 

[YaketySax]

The horde will nominate another white knight soon enough

 

[bthaunert]

I'd hold the phone on Napier's failure.

Very true…I was responding to the OP who used those examples.

 

[Jjohnb5393]

UNC would be a tough gig . That league …ACC…is way behind in TV and conference revenue, and is locked into the TV deals a while . When revenue sharing kicks in , it’s worse cause they have much less revenue. It’s thought the top teams will get plucked out of the ACC by Big Ten , sec and others . Do you want the North Carolina market with Duke or UNC? Adding Duke would bump in conferences academic rep. If FSU straightens its football out , they’re an obvious candidate. As is Ga Tech with strong academics and the Atlanta market. For sure Clemson

 

[trueblujr2]

Have to wonder how all the Sumrall to UNC talk affected the team psyche last night.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Any coach you get is going to be a risk. There is no automatic slam dunk hire…hiring coaches is a total crap shoot. While Frost and Napier are examples of G5 guys that failed, Drinkwitz and Heupel are examples of guys from G5 who have succeeded. Any route you go (Coordinator, G5, current P4) have success stories and failures.

In the past 30 years, UK has hired a current P4 coach (Curry), FCS coach (Mumme), position coach (Morris), former P4 coach turned NFL coach (Brooks), internal coordinator (Joker) and external coordinator (Stoops). Some have worked to an extent, others have failed miserably.

With Sumrall…is it a risk…of course. All hires are. Does he have characteristics that coaches need to be successful…yes. He was the best recruiter on staff when he was here. Players love him. He has charisma to work with donors on NIL.

Is he the perfect candidate? No

Is he worth taking a shot on knowing he’s a UK grad and former coach that could build this into something long term if he succeeds? I would say yes.

Doesn’t mean I’m not open to other possibilities. If there is a better candidate that UK has a shot at, go for it. I’m just not sure who that is.

This the most logical post concerning changing coaches. You have to optimistic and hope it is a good hire, but you can't put unreasonable expectations on them. It takes time, granted with the portal and enough NIL not as long as previously and hope it was a good choice. But be prepared to go through the process again in 3-4 years if it wasnt.

 

[FirewithFire]

Dude has been at Tulane for one year. One. He hasn't even had a chance to recruit to suit his scheme yet. Even so he had a successful season at a perineurally terrible team. You don't do that unless you know how to coach.

Stoops time here is done. Some of you just need to accept it. Sumrall is the best available to us replacement for him.

 

[Jjohnb5393]

Dude has been at Tulane for one year. One. He hasn't even had a chance to recruit to suit his scheme yet. Even so he had a successful season at a perineurally terrible team. You don't do that unless you know how to coach.

Stoops time here is done. Some of you just need to accept it. Sumrall is the best available to us replacement for him.

This time about 6-7 yrs ago , Neal Brown would’ve been hired if Stoops left . He’s was also doing well @ Troy

 

[bthaunert]

Dude has been at Tulane for one year. One. He hasn't even had a chance to recruit to suit his scheme yet. Even so he had a successful season at a perineurally terrible team. You don't do that unless you know how to coach.

Stoops time here is done. Some of you just need to accept it. Sumrall is the best available to us replacement for him.

I think most have accepted that Stoops tube here is done. Some aren’t totally enamored with Sumrall (I think he would be great). But every time I ask for candidates that they want, it’s crickets.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Dude has been at Tulane for one year. One. He hasn't even had a chance to recruit to suit his scheme yet. Even so he had a successful season at a perineurally terrible team. You don't do that unless you know how to coach.

Stoops time here is done. Some of you just need to accept it. Sumrall is the best available to us replacement for him.

Tulane was 11 and 3 last season and 12 and 2 the season before that. Granted they sucked in 2021 and middling before that but something has changed last 3 seasons.

I agree with you on the last part. Problem is barney disagrees and barney opinion matters more than ours for now.

 

[CrimsonCats]

Dude has been at Tulane for one year. One. He hasn't even had a chance to recruit to suit his scheme yet. Even so he had a successful season at a perineurally terrible team. You don't do that unless you know how to coach.

Stoops time here is done. Some of you just need to accept it. Sumrall is the best available to us replacement for him.

Tulane isn’t a perennial power, but their last two seasons before hiring Sumrall, they went 12-2 with a win over Caleb Williams and USC in the Cotton Bowl then 11-3. I’m definitely not saying that going 9-4 there pending the bowl result is a bad season, but it isn’t really taking that program to new heights out of nowhere either.

Which brings me to my general thoughts on Sumrall. I honestly do get the appeal. He’s young, was known as a recruiter as an assistant, and has had decent success as a G5 head coach. He’s a legit candidate for moving up to a P4 job, and even if I don’t really put much value on the coach being an alum, it’s reasonable to think that might give us an edge in hiring him should our job become open. I definitely wouldn’t be upset if we replaced Stoops with him.

All that being said, I can understand the sentiment that the hype for him is getting a little out of control when we have some posters acting like he’s practically guaranteed to start a dynasty somewhere and there’s no price too high to make sure that’s here. Coaching hires are much too volatile to have that level of certainty about any one candidate. His credentials are solid, but there’s nothing about him right now that would make me say he’s obviously more of a sure thing than say, Tom Herman or Scott Frost, and we saw how they turned out.

 

[Boz]

Tulane looked the past two weeks like a Stoops lead team. Demonstrated many of the same characteristics.

 

[Coach Marrow]

I see Sumrall as being an upgrade most likely but not a guy who is going to make us great. I don’t know if there are many coaches who could make us great honestly.

 

[catsfanbgky]

Look at the schedule Tulane plays. Lot easier when you are not playing SC, Tenn, Texas, Florida, Ole Miss, Georgia every week. IF UK played the Charlotte, Temple, USF, Rice, North Texas, Navy, Army (usually bad), UAB schedule every year, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just stating facts. Over the last 3 years, Tulane has shown when they play ranked teams (usually not top 10/15, 20-25 ranked teams, they lose. Now have them play 4/5 top 10 teams and see what his results would be.

2024 - 9-4. Best win : Louisiana , played 3 ranked teams, lost them all by 7,15,21.
2023 - 11-3 Best win : Memphis, played 2 ranked teams, lost to both by 17,12. Got smoked in the bowl game by 6-6 Virginia Tech 41-20.
2022 - 12-2 Best win : #21 Cincy, beat and lost to UCF. Beat a decimated roster on defense USC in the bowl game, 46-45. USC blew a 15 point lead with 4:30 to go.

 

[Spica Orbit]

The horde will nominate another white knight soon enough

---
Until that white knight loses a game....

 

[FirewithFire]

Tulane had a couple of good years under Fritz before he left. Before that they were middling to terrible going all the way back to the CUSA days.

If you want to argue that Sumrall is benefiting from Fritz's recruits then I can accept that as valid. My point is that UK can't attract top tier coaching talent, imo. Sumrall is the best option at this point in time to replace Stoops.

The whole thing is moot anyway. Unless Iowa comes through Stoops is going to be here and Sumrall is going to get scooped up by some of other program. Next year we can argue over the next best option.

 

[Cat_Man_Blue]

I see Sumrall as being an upgrade most likely but not a guy who is going to make us great. I don’t know if there are many coaches who could make us great honestly.

It is not just about coaches that could make UK great. Its about coaches that could make UK great and would be willing to come to UK. That has to be a tiny group of coaches. That is why I have Sumrall at the top of my wish list. If UK can hire a better coach then great.

 

[Deeeefense]

Any coach you get is going to be a risk. There is no automatic slam dunk hire…hiring coaches is a total crap shoot. While Frost and Napier (debateable) are examples of G5 guys that failed, Drinkwitz and Heupel are examples of guys from G5 who have succeeded. Any route you go (Coordinator, G5, current P4) have success stories and failures.

In the past 30 years, UK has hired a current P4 coach (Curry), FCS coach (Mumme), position coach (Morris), former P4 coach turned NFL coach (Brooks), internal coordinator (Joker) and external coordinator (Stoops). Some have worked to an extent, others have failed miserably.

With Sumrall…is it a risk…of course. All hires are. Does he have characteristics that coaches need to be successful…yes. He was the best recruiter on staff when he was here. Players love him. He has charisma to work with donors on NIL.

Is he the perfect candidate? No

Is he worth taking a shot on knowing he’s a UK grad and former coach that could build this into something long term if he succeeds? I would say yes.

Doesn’t mean I’m not open to other possibilities. If there is a better candidate that UK has a shot at, go for it. I’m just not sure who that is.

Very good analysis.
I would ad just anecdotally that it seems most of the really excellent college head coaches over the years spent time either in the NFL or in an elite college program especially Alabama with Saban, even if it was just as a position coach.

My theory is guys that become successful head coaches have spent some time being exposed to other very successful coaches seeing and experiencing what it takes to be successful.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Look at the schedule Tulane plays. Lot easier when you are not playing SC, Tenn, Texas, Florida, Ole Miss, Georgia every week. IF UK played the Charlotte, Temple, USF, Rice, North Texas, Navy, Army (usually bad), UAB schedule every year, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just stating facts. Over the last 3 years, Tulane has shown when they play ranked teams (usually not top 10/15, 20-25 ranked teams, they lose. Now have them play 4/5 top 10 teams and see what his results would be.

2024 - 9-4. Best win : Louisiana , played 3 ranked teams, lost them all by 7,15,21.
2023 - 11-3 Best win : Memphis, played 2 ranked teams, lost to both by 17,12. Got smoked in the bowl game by 6-6 Virginia Tech 41-20.
2022 - 12-2 Best win : #21 Cincy, beat and lost to UCF. Beat a decimated roster on defense USC in the bowl game, 46-45. USC blew a 15 point lead with 4:30 to go.

Really ignorant post. Of course he plays a schedule of peers while at Tulane. He also has talent relative to his opponents.

If he or any other coach from that level moved to SEC, they would then have a greater chance at recruiting success to increase their talent to an SEC level.

Of course Tulane would struggle in the SEC. Lmao

 

[Dncmaxwell]

 

[IFerg1969]

Look at the schedule Tulane plays. Lot easier when you are not playing SC, Tenn, Texas, Florida, Ole Miss, Georgia every week. IF UK played the Charlotte, Temple, USF, Rice, North Texas, Navy, Army (usually bad), UAB schedule every year, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just stating facts. Over the last 3 years, Tulane has shown when they play ranked teams (usually not top 10/15, 20-25 ranked teams, they lose. Now have them play 4/5 top 10 teams and see what his results would be.

2024 - 9-4. Best win : Louisiana , played 3 ranked teams, lost them all by 7,15,21.
2023 - 11-3 Best win : Memphis, played 2 ranked teams, lost to both by 17,12. Got smoked in the bowl game by 6-6 Virginia Tech 41-20.
2022 - 12-2 Best win : #21 Cincy, beat and lost to UCF. Beat a decimated roster on defense USC in the bowl game, 46-45. USC blew a 15 point lead with 4:30 to go.

Aside from the fact that this is Sumrall's first year with Tulane and that the roster is hardly stocked with his guys, with your explanation you're completely discounting the fact that Tulane does not have SEC\top 25 level talent on it's roster, they have AAC level talent. They recruit at a similar level to the other schools in their conference.

The question you should be asking is, does Sumrall get more out of the talent he has versus other coaches in a similar situation? I think he does. If Stoops and UK went 4-8 this year with what was supposed to be a decent roster, what would they have done against an SEC schedule with an AAC talent level roster? I'm thinking 1 or 2 wins tops, it's hard to get much worse than 4-8.

I'm not saying Sumrall is the end-all-be-all, but we know what we're going to get with Stoops. Boring, mistake plagued, no discpline, play-not-to-lose football. If nothing else, I'd rather have a young and hungry guy that has proven to be a solid coach than a fat-n-happy coach making way more money than he should be based on his results.

 

[bthaunert]

Look at the schedule Tulane plays. Lot easier when you are not playing SC, Tenn, Texas, Florida, Ole Miss, Georgia every week. IF UK played the Charlotte, Temple, USF, Rice, North Texas, Navy, Army (usually bad), UAB schedule every year, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just stating facts. Over the last 3 years, Tulane has shown when they play ranked teams (usually not top 10/15, 20-25 ranked teams, they lose. Now have them play 4/5 top 10 teams and see what his results would be.

2024 - 9-4. Best win : Louisiana , played 3 ranked teams, lost them all by 7,15,21.
2023 - 11-3 Best win : Memphis, played 2 ranked teams, lost to both by 17,12. Got smoked in the bowl game by 6-6 Virginia Tech 41-20.
2022 - 12-2 Best win : #21 Cincy, beat and lost to UCF. Beat a decimated roster on defense USC in the bowl game, 46-45. USC blew a 15 point lead with 4:30 to go.

Of course that’s how it is. He’s at Tulane and previously at Troy. No one expects that a G5 team should be able to beat an SEC schedule. You judge a coach based on how he does against competition similar to his program. Is he the perfect candidate..no. Had he had success as a mid major coach playing teams similar to that of the program he’s at…absolutely.

 

[3632]

This time about 6-7 yrs ago , Neal Brown would’ve been hired if Stoops left . He’s was also doing well @ Troy

if wvu had the stoops scheduling plan brown would still be at wvu.

 

[yoshukai]

Here’s where I believe a lot of people are . UK goes 6-6 next year with Mark Stoops coaching and most npeople are pissed and have no hope for the future. Or .. UK goes 6-6 next year with Jon Sumrall coaching and most people are happy, it’s something to build on .

 

[catsfanbgky]

Well Tulane had those solid 2 years before he came, then they lose 4 games this year. Fritz went 12-2 / 11-3, then he takes over, 9-4. My whole point is that. Fritz beat some ranked teams, he didn't this year and went 9-4 and got smoked last night. Main point though is CAN HE BUILD A WINNER IN THE SEC, it would be a LOT harder than doing so and competing in the AA / Sunbelt. The schedule he would face and not having ever built a big conference roster would not be easy. Some of you act like he would walk right in and go 9-3 / 10-2 every year at UK playing in the SEC. What has he shown that he would be better than Stoops IN THE SEC ??? That is my point, but yall go ahead and swing from his jock like he is the next Bear Bryant or Nick Saban. LOL, at UK, he would have a VERY tough challenge.

 

[Jjohnb5393]

if wvu had the stoops scheduling plan brown would still be at wvu.

Maybe . He’d be expected to be better in the B12 conference, and Brown wasn’t great there . You have the 50/50 Pitt ‘rivalry’ game as one of your non-conference games …similar to UL here . So , give him stoops exact schedule @ wvu , with sec replacing B12 game with the issue of luring difference makers to Morgantown …tough call

 

[catsfanbgky]

He took over for Fritz who had went 11-3 the year before, goes 9-4.After he left Troy, of course they was going to fall off. They lost every key player on offense,
QB - Gunnar Watson 3566 yards passing / 27 TDs
RB - Kinami Vidal - 1661 yards rushing / 14 TDs
WR- Jabre Barber - 999 yards receiving / 5 TDs
WR -Deshon Stoudemire - 569 yards / 4 TDs
WR- Chris Lewis - 735 yards / 10 TD's
The whole offense had to be rebuilt, and they lost several key players on defense. Sumrall took over a already talented Tulane roster who had went 11-3 / 12-2 and finished 9-4.

 

[rick64]

UK needs an offensive minded head coach.

 

[gamalielkid]

What is the love affair with this guy? While better than stoops, look at Tulanes last two games... they got stomped when playing decent competition and never really upset any of the big boys. Look at the mid major guys that went to nebraska and florida that crapped the bed and didn't do squat. Those coaches are very similar to sumrall if you ask me. Why would he be successful at UK?

All you have to do is look at Arizona State to see why? So similar in many ways - UK is never going to be easy. We will consistently play a top 20 schedule and many years have a top 5 schedule because of who we play and the conference we are in. But Sumrall will not be looking at A & M with lust or anyone else! That is worth a lot - just look at this year's transfer portal! When you lose you best players and some live a few miles from the University that speaks LOUDLY about the coaching situation!

Go Big Blue!

 

[3632]

Maybe . He’d be expected to be better in the B12 conference, and Brown wasn’t great there . You have the 50/50 Pitt ‘rivalry’ game as one of your non-conference games …similar to UL here . So , give him stoops exact schedule @ wvu , with sec replacing B12 game with the issue of luring difference makers to Morgantown …tough call

9 conference games and only one money win a year. And remember stoops wouldn’t get to recruit the teams he has here to play that sched because he’d no longer be pitching to come play in the sec. He would be playing with teams pitched to play in a different conference while living in Morgantown wv.

 

[Jjohnb5393]

9 conference games and only one money win a year. And remember stoops wouldn’t get to recruit the teams he has here to play that sched because he’d no longer be pitching to come play in the sec. He would be playing with teams pitched to play in a different conference while living in Morgantown wv.

I will say I don’t think if Brown had been hired yrs ago , he wouldn’t have been great here during that time . Being an offensive guy , he’s burned thru DC’s like we have OC’s ….and ended it all after making another mid season change at DC. & giving up 52 in his last game @ WVU

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Any coach you get is going to be a risk. There is no automatic slam dunk hire…hiring coaches is a total crap shoot. While Frost and Napier (debateable) are examples of G5 guys that failed, Drinkwitz and Heupel are examples of guys from G5 who have succeeded. Any route you go (Coordinator, G5, current P4) have success stories and failures.

In the past 30 years, UK has hired a current P4 coach (Curry), FCS coach (Mumme), position coach (Morris), former P4 coach turned NFL coach (Brooks), internal coordinator (Joker) and external coordinator (Stoops). Some have worked to an extent, others have failed miserably.

With Sumrall…is it a risk…of course. All hires are. Does he have characteristics that coaches need to be successful…yes. He was the best recruiter on staff when he was here. Players love him. He has charisma to work with donors on NIL.

Is he the perfect candidate? No

Is he worth taking a shot on knowing he’s a UK grad and former coach that could build this into something long term if he succeeds? I would say yes.

Doesn’t mean I’m not open to other possibilities. If there is a better candidate that UK has a shot at, go for it. I’m just not sure who that is.

That's why teams need to be very careful when evaluating a hc change. This portal era is insane and there can be wild swings and unexpected dips. I think if you have an established demonstrated success, you should be very wary of making a drastic move on the basis of one down year.

 

[EliteBlue]

Nope!

I think we can all put that to bed now. The legend of Sumrall was largely over exaggerated.

That’s not to say he won’t continue to do well at Tulane or have a good career somewhere. Wish him all the best.

We already got a firery defensive coach hyped up on running and defense who can’t stop the run or running QBs.

If y’all want that style of ball then your guy was on the other sideline. Been saying for a while now that Monken should get more serious looks than what he does. If you can build a winning program at army you can build a winning program anywhere.

All the boo hooers on here who like to act like we’re so limited when our AD is literally top 20 in terms of money…

Army has restrictions. Academic, character/back ground, they can’t really do the portal dance or NIL…

This. You have the group here that thinks we can go man for man against the big boys and play a pro style offense. The reality is, our best chance of competing at a high level consistently is either to go full blown Mike leach quick passes or to hire monken and run an adapted version of academy football with better talent (not a coincidence that stoops best run here was Wilson/Snell, Bowden/Crod (3 of the loses that year came pre Bowden at QB), Levis/Crod playing largely power offense and clock control.

We can’t recruit 2 deep NFL offensive libemen w the size and agility to consistently pass block against the top 10 type pass rushes. Downhill runblocking is significantly easier to recruit to. Running backs are significantly easier to recruit (Snell, Crod were both 3 star types). Athletic dual threat QBs that aren’t NFL level pocket passers but can keep a D honest is easy tk recruit to (3star Cobb, Bowden, the army QB, the Vandy QB, etc.). They are a dime-a-dozen. TEs and big outside blocking receivers are pretty easy to find.

All those are also the cheapest NIL positions. Instead of draining our NIL budget in over priced drama receivers like Brown and hit or miss portal QBs like BV and Leary

Georgia Techs downfall was when they dropped the triple option and thought they could compete playing a balanced pro style…they quickly learned they couldn’t out recruit all the traditional SEC schools in their backyard and was ultimately just an inferior version of the top 15-25 teams….and that’s with the Atlanta hotbed to recruit from and playing in a weak ACC. While they were the only power 5 triple option team they were almost always top 25 and routinely upset Georgia…it was actually a tough rivalry game then.

You can even run more speed option and try to replicate Chip Kelly’s pre nfl stint Oregon offense. Once he went pro, he has tried to be too pro style at UCLA and now as OC at Ohio State (he can get away w it at Ohio State bc the recruiting pool and resources)…hell, maybe go after Kelly under the premise he brings back his Oregon speed option spread offense and ditches the pro style concepts.

 

[bluecoon1]

Here’s where I believe a lot of people are . UK goes 6-6 next year with Mark Stoops coaching and most npeople are pissed and have no hope for the future. Or .. UK goes 6-6 next year with Jon Sumrall coaching and most people are happy, it’s something to build on .

Big difference in going 6-6 with the most tenured coach in the SEC and someone going 6-6 their first year coaching in the toughest P4 conference. I don’t care who’s here as long as we put a disciplined team on the field that’s plays hard til the whistle.