Starting QB for a undefeated team quits due to breach of contract.....

[Girthang]

This has some original reporting that adds to it

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…there was no written contract because the money was contingent on him winning the starting job and making NIL contingent is illegal under current NIL rules. Wild.

One of the few parts of the current "NIL" that is truly NIL. If you pay someone for an autograph because of the school they attend, it's not NIL. It's simply signed memorabilia. You can pay for the autograph tho, and the player should be able to be paid for it. But you can't say you want the money back if they switch institutions.

IF these coaches and programs want an athlete's face representing them on the field, then they need to pay them for it. The players and coaches need to honor the contracts. Contracts and promises alike need to be secured after the player is committed and it should be called what it is "pay for play." The schools should have no part in NIL. THE PLAYERS should secure their own endorsements.

That should also mean coaches need to sign the contracts and stay at the schools or pay a negotiated portion of the unfulfilled (paid but not played) money of the players' contracts that signed with the coach and program but transferred because the coach left. Stop this musical chairs bullsht by both coaches and players.

For that matter, make the universities honor their contracts with coaches unless the coaches violate rules or resign or truly retire. Tired of these inflated contracts and firing coaches that still have ridiculous long term contracts in place. You don't like the results? Don't sign a coach to a 4 or 7 year deal after 1 yr of success...

Not saying any of this will happen. It's a cluster fk right now though

 

[Girthang]

So, its an illegal contract...void ab initio?

But, knowing it was illegal to make the verbal offer, the school needs to be made to pay some portion of their verbal commitment and the offending coach suspended immediately by ncaa with a show cause for violating the rules. This sht needs to stop, and it won't if it is not enforced uniformly, as the always capricious ncaa has demonstrated repeatedly. They clearly WANT AND ENCOURAGE this cheating by not clarifying and upholding the standards the same for everyone.

 

[Girthang]

Iirc they are all supposed to be in writing. At least in ky. They even have to be approved by someone at uk. At least thats how its supposed to work.

If someone is quitting over a 100k handshake, thats on them to not get it in writing. Id fire whatever agent that approved such nonsense.

And the stories don't line up.

When did the UNLV QB have the agent? Did the coach make the verifiable offer to the kid without an agent or legal guardian present? Says he didn't have an agent until recently.

Different articles also said he has a contract for 3k per month, but didn't receive a payment after the initial 3k. That's sketchy at best, but needs clarification.

This is why Emmert and his staff should be sued by the member institutions for not establishing any forward thinking rules and protection with regards to NIL and pay for play issues for both programs and players. It was dereliction of duty to just let it all ride and not even attempt to prevent this cluster.

No one will do anything though.

 

[Cleatortoises]

NIL was supposed to prevent schools/ teams from making money off of a player while the player got bubkis. The player, however, would be allowed to make money off his/ her NIL by making it more valuable with performance.
Where the hell did that go?
It's straight pay for play now with no regard to value of performance.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

And the stories don't line up.

When did the UNLV QB have the agent? Did the coach make the verifiable offer to the kid without an agent or legal guardian present? Says he didn't have an agent until recently.

Different articles also said he has a contract for 3k per month, but didn't receive a payment after the initial 3k. That's sketchy at best, but needs clarification.

This is why Emmert and his staff should be sued by the member institutions for not establishing any forward thinking rules and protection with regards to NIL and pay for play issues for both programs and players. It was dereliction of duty to just let it all ride and not even attempt to prevent this cluster.

No one will do anything though.

Im with you. Im not buying this story. This oral promise only came out after unlv said they lived up to their financial obligations and the kid/agent then wanted more money.

No way any agent or athlete has lets an oral promise for 100k to hang out there without reducing it to writing. No way.

I think this oral promise angle is just an attempt to save face.

 

[TCurtis75]

Im with you. Im not buying this story. This oral promise only came out after unlv said they lived up to their financial obligations and the kid/agent then wanted more money.

No way any agent or athlete has lets an oral promise for 100k to hang out there without reducing it to writing. No way.

I think this oral promise angle is just an attempt to save face.

Its just as likely the agent angle is a way to save face for UNLV. Nothing about an agent was ever said until the PR hit came. UNLV has a lot more to lose than the athlete. They need to do all they can to CYA or they may never be able to recover in regards to recruiting if it is proven they don’t meet NIL obligations after you sign.

 

[Tskware]

Can't link the article right now, but Kirby Smart commented on the UNLV situation yesterday at his PC. Said this will continue to happen and will only get worse until a better system is established, thinks college football is in for some very tough times until something is done. FWIW, a 5 star DT at So Cal quit the team yesterday in a dispute over PT, going to RS and then transfer. Not the same situation exactly, but where does it all end?

 

[UKnCincy]

Im with you. Im not buying this story. This oral promise only came out after unlv said they lived up to their financial obligations and the kid/agent then wanted more money.

No way any agent or athlete has lets an oral promise for 100k to hang out there without reducing it to writing. No way.

I think this oral promise angle is just an attempt to save face.

It’s fairly common for there to be oral agreements for NIL deals when those agreements involve a collective and it’s pay for play masquerading as NIL.

In many instances, the state laws mean that written contracts are unenforceable if it represents an inducement to get an athlete to attend the school. So, there’s no point drafting an agreement until they get on campus and you can make up some activities to put in the contract to make it look close enough to an NIL arrangement.

It would look odd if UNLV’s collective signed an NIL deal in January with a student athlete who was currently enrolled at another school.

What seems to be the most likely scenario here is that a coach made assurances to the kid while recruiting him, but that the coach didn’t have everything buttoned up on his end with the collective.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

True.



NIL isn't. Under-regulated and unenforced pay for play is.

Transfer portal makes everything 10 times worse as well IMO.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

It’s fairly common for there to be oral agreements for NIL deals when those agreements involve a collective and it’s pay for play masquerading as NIL.

In many instances, the state laws mean that written contracts are unenforceable if it represents an inducement to get an athlete to attend the school. So, there’s no point drafting an agreement until they get on campus and you can make up some activities to put in the contract to make it look close enough to an NIL arrangement.

It would look odd if UNLV’s collective signed an NIL deal in January with a student athlete who was currently enrolled at another school.

What seems to be the most likely scenario here is that a coach made assurances to the kid while recruiting him, but that the coach didn’t have everything buttoned up on his end with the collective.

From a pure contract law perspective, an oral contract is definitely still enforceable subject of course to meeting the burden of proof.

However it seemingly does violate nil specific state law, assuming theirs follows the model that most every state adopted. It requires them in writing and approved by the school. This was to protect mainly the school but also the player.

Lets say there was some oral promise to avoid the timing of this trigger pointing out improper contact. There is plenty of time after the player enters the portal in which an oral agreement can be reduced to writing. Without that writing, I don't see any way someone would go through with the committal and end up on campus if someone wouldn't put the agreement into writing.

 

[CB3UK]

The schools have nothing to do with it. Or aren't supposed to. It's the collective/boosters who are at issue here.

Regardless, the RB from UNLV has transferred out now too, making me apt to believe this QB about the boosters not paying all that was promised. Allegedly the $100K offer came from an assistant coach on the staff, which he has no power to authorize, or is even allowed to under NIL rules. That's straight up pay for play.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

The schools have nothing to do with it. Or aren't supposed to. It's the collective/boosters who are at issue here.

Regardless, the RB from UNLV has transferred out now too, making me apt to believe this QB about the boosters not paying all that was promised. Allegedly the $100K offer came from an assistant coach on the staff, which he has no power to authorize, or is even allowed to under NIL rules. That's straight up pay for play.

The model state law requires every single nil contract to be reduced to writing and approved by the school. Every single one. So the schools definitely have everything to do with it.

Obviously you cant control what isnt submitted, but from a practical standpoint i cant imagine a player with an agent let this 100k oral promise stand without having it in writing. It just doesn't add up.

 

[cbrwalt]

This will be the catalyst to get contracts and regulations established. It will all work it's self out, it's not a big deal.

Players will end up getting their incentives to play in a written contract


And universities will get penalties to players who do not fulfill their obligations written down as well.



This is a necessary consequence that will self correct over the next few years

 

[UKnCincy]

From a pure contract law perspective, an oral contract is definitely still enforceable subject of course to meeting the burden of proof.

However it seemingly does violate nil specific state law, assuming theirs follows the model that most every state adopted. It requires them in writing and approved by the school. This was to protect mainly the school but also the player.

Lets say there was some oral promise to avoid the timing of this trigger pointing out improper contact. There is plenty of time after the player enters the portal in which an oral agreement can be reduced to writing. Without that writing, I don't see any way someone would go through with the committal and end up on campus if someone wouldn't put the agreement into writing.

An oral contract is not enforceable if the agreement violates the law. Whether it’s oral or in writing, an illegal agreement is an illegal agreement. And prior to the injunction from Tennessee’s lawsuit, most schools also still had concerns on the NCAA side.

The fact of the matter remains, what has been happening in reality, is that many of these NIL deals are occurring as oral agreements that do not get formalized in writing until sometime after the athlete has committed to the school. That’s just how things have been working in this space. It has been common practice to avoid or delay putting things in writing because, fundamentally, these agreements are skirting state laws and NCAA rules they were concerned about (at least prior to the injunction).

It’s fair to debate whether or not it’s prudent for an athlete to make the move to a school without having something in writing, but that doesn’t change the fact that the ways things work right now, most of the athletes are receiving verbal assurances and making decisions before having anything signed.

 

[ArtLaibsGhost]

This concept of " pay for play" is illegal is just nonsense. Like so many other areas of American life the establishment preaches the ideal and ignores reality. College football as we knew it is OVER. These kids are now paid workers and if you don't pay your employees they quit. Like any other job the best people will go to the highest paying school. It will take a few years but after that about a half dozen schools will win it every year, and nobody else will even have a chance.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

An oral contract is not enforceable if the agreement violates the law. Whether it’s oral or in writing, an illegal agreement is an illegal agreement. And prior to the injunction from Tennessee’s lawsuit, most schools also still had concerns on the NCAA side.

The fact of the matter remains, what has been happening in reality, is that many of these NIL deals are occurring as oral agreements that do not get formalized in writing until sometime after the athlete has committed to the school. That’s just how things have been working in this space. It has been common practice to avoid or delay putting things in writing because, fundamentally, these agreements are skirting state laws and NCAA rules they were concerned about (at least prior to the injunction).

It’s fair to debate whether or not it’s prudent for an athlete to make the move to a school without having something in writing, but that doesn’t change the fact that the ways things work right now, most of the athletes are receiving verbal assurances and making decisions before having anything signed.

I said in the portion of my post related to general contract theory that an oral agreement is enforceable subject to them meeting the burden of proof. I posted that because many erroneously think an oral agreement doesn't count at all.

It isnt prudent for a player, or anyone, to rely upon an oral promise for that kind of money. I don't think thats really debatable. Its pretty careless if not outright reckless.

I have no doubt oral promises are made to induce commitments. I have serious doubts anyone commits, moves out there, and starts playing all without that oral agreement reduced to writing. The only excuse that makes any sense would be the player relying on the agent and the agent dropped the ball.

 

[CB3UK]

This will be the catalyst to get contracts and regulations established. It will all work it's self out, it's not a big deal.

Players will end up getting their incentives to play in a written contract


And universities will get penalties to players who do not fulfill their obligations written down as well.



This is a necessary consequence that will self correct over the next few years

I'm referring to extending the offers and the obligation to meet them. What role do the schools have there? Do they have any authority? I thought this was all strictly between players and the boosters/companies/businesses. Or was at least supposed to be. What you said makes sense though.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

This concept of " pay for play" is illegal is just nonsense. Like so many other areas of American life the establishment preaches the ideal and ignores reality. College football as we knew it is OVER. These kids are now paid workers and if you don't pay your employees they quit. Like any other job the best people will go to the highest paying school. It will take a few years but after that about a half dozen schools will win it every year, and nobody else will even have a chance.

So pretty much like it has been? In reference to your last sentence.

 

[Soupbean]

If true, he’s a biyatch.

If he was misled by the school and didn’t receive what was promised, UNLV is the biyatch.

Either way this kid just became the face of what many people feel is the beginning of the end of "College" sports

 

[ArtLaibsGhost]

So pretty much like it has been? In reference to your last sentence.

You make a fair point there

 

[Cat06]

Contract or not, something incentivized this guy to shut it down after going 3-0. He only has two years left and has seen his value skyrocket past what UNLV was paying him this season. Now he will get two years at the higher rate instead of just one. Or none, if he had been injured later this season.

I hate it all any more. I never wanted professional college athletes but that is where we are.

 

[UKnCincy]

I said in the portion of my post related to general contract theory that an oral agreement is enforceable subject to them meeting the burden of proof. I posted that because many erroneously think an oral agreement doesn't count at all.

It isnt prudent for a player, or anyone, to rely upon an oral promise for that kind of money. I don't think thats really debatable. Its pretty careless if not outright reckless.

I have no doubt oral promises are made to induce commitments. I have serious doubts anyone commits, moves out there, and starts playing all without that oral agreement reduced to writing. The only excuse that makes any sense would be the player relying on the agent and the agent dropped the ball.

If you have doubts that players aren’t moving before having a contract signed, then I assume that means it’s fair to say that you haven’t spoken directly with any student athletes who’ve made deals with collectives, or spoken with anyone who actually runs a collective.

You can doubt it all you want, the fact of the matter is that players have been moving before having anything signed rather routinely.

I’d also add that aside from the need to skirt state laws and NCAA rules, there have been a number of collectives that were also hesitant to put anything in writing because there was a disconnect between the total amount they were offering for a roster and the amount of cash they actually had on hand. The need to work around the laws provided a convenient excuse that allowed some of them to delay committing to anything in writing when they hadn’t yet fully secured the funds.

 

[Crystalglass]

Can't link the article right now, but Kirby Smart commented on the UNLV situation yesterday at his PC. Said this will continue to happen and will only get worse until a better system is established, thinks college football is in for some very tough times until something is done. FWIW, a 5 star DT at So Cal quit the team yesterday in a dispute over PT, going to RS and then transfer. Not the same situation exactly, but where does it all end?

Bear Alexander claims he is going to stay and practice with the team? Why would any coach allow that!?

 

[UPSCat4080]

It will take a few years but after that about a half dozen schools will win it every year, and nobody else will even have a chance.

I get what you are saying with the rest of your post, but just this portion is already happening and has for years lol. Every year there are only 4-5 teams that realistically have a shot to win the title and usually its the same 4-5 teams every year.

 

[bbncal02]

I've found myself becoming more and more disconnected from college sports these days. I used to really enjoy them because they were just students out there (mostly) and it was different from the pros where guys just got out there for money (win or lose). Now the passion seems to be gone and this just isn't as fun anymore.

 

[YardCat]

Hugh Freeze is in the phone trying to get this kid right now to save his season. I think it’s too late,

 

[gobigblue812]

The schools have nothing to do with it. Or aren't supposed to. It's the collective/boosters who are at issue here.

Regardless, the RB from UNLV has transferred out now too, making me apt to believe this QB about the boosters not paying all that was promised. Allegedly the $100K offer came from an assistant coach on the staff, which he has no power to authorize, or is even allowed to under NIL rules. That's straight up pay for play.

RB Allen cited “opportunities” that “unfortunately were not met” in his announcement, which was about playing time and NOT NIL.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

If you have doubts that players aren’t moving before having a contract signed, then I assume that means it’s fair to say that you haven’t spoken directly with any student athletes who’ve made deals with collectives, or spoken with anyone who actually runs a collective.

You can doubt it all you want, the fact of the matter is that players have been moving before having anything signed rather routinely.

I’d also add that aside from the need to skirt state laws and NCAA rules, there have been a number of collectives that were also hesitant to put anything in writing because there was a disconnect between the total amount they were offering for a roster and the amount of cash they actually had on hand. The need to work around the laws provided a convenient excuse that allowed some of them to delay committing to anything in writing when they hadn’t yet fully secured the funds.

Im sure it happens but not with minor. Not 100k. Also important to understand "writing" doesn't have to mean formal contract. Can be texts, emails, etc or any combination thereof.

We're supposed to believe there was an offer of 100k which was exclusively oral and never ever mentioned in any writing?

I guess it's theoretically possible but seems so improbable that its equivalent to impossible.

 

[Girthang]

It would look odd if UNLV’s collective signed an NIL deal in January with a student athlete who was currently enrolled at another school.

What seems to be the most likely scenario here is that a coach made assurances to the kid while recruiting him, but that the coach didn’t have everything buttoned up on his end with the collective.

Yep. Inducement by the coach. Everything points to that pretty clearly. At least the kid will have some recourse, though not much if he hasn't proof, and maybe this sht will stop happening to other players.

It should at least force people to make some changes to this farce.

 

[Girthang]

Bear Alexander claims he is going to stay and practice with the team? Why would any coach allow that!?

Wow. This keeps going more and more like a bad Disney sequel

 

[Girthang]

This concept of " pay for play" is illegal is just nonsense. Like so many other areas of American life the establishment preaches the ideal and ignores reality. College football as we knew it is OVER. These kids are now paid workers and if you don't pay your employees they quit. Like any other job the best people will go to the highest paying school. It will take a few years but after that about a half dozen schools will win it every year, and nobody else will even have a chance.

Exactly. Calling it NIL is just trying to put lipstick on the pig, especially when the program has their hands in it.

Their needs to be a division between those who want to work through paying players and those programs that want to continue the traditional route but allowing TRUE NIL. Either way the NCAA needs to be restructured so that they make a level playing field for programs at each level instead of their randomization bullsht based on how much viewership each has.

If UTk, A&M, ND, Miami, and other schools breaking the few rules there are already want to go the semi pro route, I say let them go. It's what they've been doing for many many decades already, but this way they can play each other every year and have their own ruleset. Once they've packed their bags and left for their semi pro league, those who love amateur athletics for what it is/was can go back to watching the rest as we always have. I know where my time and money is going to be spent or not

I liked the heart and competition of college football, the bowl games, and the players representing the university and fans. Make the players sign contracts. Let them have and set up their NIL. Keep that sht out of the locker rooms and recruiting. Let the universities pay for insurance against injury for the players to guard their futures and protect the programs investments. Then let's suit up and play some football

 

[kb22stang]

Well....can't say many didn't see this coming and for those that hammer this player for being un-loyal to the team.....

1. All the talk of players deserve money (when all P5 kids were getting a small stipend)
2. All the talk of players should have freedom to up and leave just like coaches
3. All the talk of schools making so much money....players are like slaves in this arrangement

Here is the true underbelly of this entire NIL/transfer portal era. And just as NFL guys sit out pre-season for contracts, have these "hamstrings" injuries that they can't play thru, "making business decisions" for their bodies, etc....

Here it will start in college game.

So for those that lamented for all this....you have to live with the good and the bad.

If this forces coaches to live up to their promises then it's a good thing for college players. This is no "underbelly", it's simply a player standing up for himself. If my employer decided they weren't going to pay me what we agreed then I'd bail as well.

 

[kb22stang]

True.



NIL isn't. Under-regulated and unenforced pay for play is.

Nonsense, pay for play has been around my entire lifetime, its just out in the open now.

 

[TucsonCat]

So for those that lamented for all this....you have to live with the good and the bad.

Not a problem.

 

[bballcat4]

Nonsense, pay for play has been around my entire lifetime, its just out in the open now.

Bring Claude Bassett back to help out Marrow. We’ll own the city of Memphis!!!

 

[UKnCincy]

Im sure it happens but not with minor. Not 100k. Also important to understand "writing" doesn't have to mean formal contract. Can be texts, emails, etc or any combination thereof.

We're supposed to believe there was an offer of 100k which was exclusively oral and never ever mentioned in any writing?

I guess it's theoretically possible but seems so improbable that it’s equivalent to impossible.

It’s not improbable, it’s been fairly standard practice. Prior to this past February, NCAA rules prohibited NIL deals with prospective student athletes.

Similarly, several state laws also prohibited contracts with prospective student athletes. Texas, for example, prohibited any contract prior to an athlete’s enrollment in the school.

Texas’ NIL law included the following:

No individual, corporate entity, or other organization may: (1) enter into any arrangement with a prospective student athlete relating to the prospective student athlete's name, image, or likeness prior to their enrollment in an institution of higher education.​

The nature of the state laws and NCAA rules created a situation where it was pretty much standard practice to offer verbal assurances until the kid arrived on campus. And in some instances, even after they enrolled, no formal agreement was ever drafted.

It would not be at all surprising for the UNLV kid to have never been offered a written contract before arriving on campus. After the Tennessee injunction, the head of Ole Miss’ collective made reference to this dynamic in an interivew:

“I can’t tell you how many phone calls I got from a parent of a student-athlete or an agent going, ‘Hey, I need to see a contract. Hey, I need to know what the deal is.’ And, unfortunately, I had to tell them, 'Sorry, I can’t send you a contract,'" Jones said.​

​

Jones said the rules put everybody involved at a disadvantage.​

​

"The student-athlete would have to kind of take the coach’s word for it, or a third-party conversation that somebody had with somebody else to funnel third-party information," he said "And then when they showed up at that place, it wasn’t exactly what they were told or it didn’t meet their expectations."​

​

There are several market distortions that meant the NIL contracting environment did not function like the business contracting environment. What may be unfathomable in a standard business setting, has been standard practice in the NIL space.

 

[UKFBFan78]

NIL was supposed to prevent schools/ teams from making money off of a player while the player got bubkis. The player, however, would be allowed to make money off his/ her NIL by making it more valuable with performance.
Where the hell did that go?
It's straight pay for play now with no regard to value of performance.

I said from the very beginning this is how it would end up and got attacked on here repeatedly for it and refusing to pay "nil" Only a blind person couldn't see this coming. It's such a joke

 

[FirewithFire]

NIL will work out great. Won't change the game at all. Nope.

If there is a "contract" here, then these players can be considered employees. Time to put a cap on this crap.

 

[Girthang]

Nonsense, pay for play has been around my entire lifetime, its just out in the open now.

Exactly as I said. Good to see you still don't read posts

 

[truebluewildcat]

Barry Odom on his way to building another solid program. I feel like that guy doesn’t get his due. May see him pop up on some radars if he sniffs around or sneaks into playoffs.

Another thing, UNLV could/should be a destination in the era of transient mercenaries looking for a payday.

All the money in that town, opportunities to promote some event, ringside with ring girls, etc…