So where does the NCAA stand on the Cliff Alexander

[rickyzwalters]

Okay, the obvious question is: Then, why are you not wanting the truth to come out IF this situation really doesn't warrant any further punishment? If the kid willingly violated NCAA rules and the punishment is in line with all other similar cases, KU is clear. So, why were you saying that you hope mom never talks earlier? I honestly don't get it.

What is the fear?

From reading all the posts in this thread I found no one who believes they can actually predict what the NCAA will do with absolute certainty in a given situation. And that the NCAA is clearly NOT consistent in their handling of various situations. So my personal desire is to NOT give the NCAA any cause to make a stupid ruling which could negatively impact my alma mater . Do I fear the NCAA could do something stupid and arbitrary? Yes. Do I think they will? No.

What I don't understand is why so many of you UK fans care what I think/want to happen or not happen? I'll eat my hat if at this point Cliffs Mom talks to the NCAA. She can only hurt her situation by doing so and stands to gain nothing. So it's over. You can close the books on this - nothing more is going to come of this.

Why does anyone care what I think anyway?

 

[rickyzwalters]

What was the date when Memphis/Cal/Rose were notified? The forensic document examiner completed her examination on 9/2/07 and could not give a definitive answer whether or not Rose took the test. The NCAA Clearinghouse cleared Rose to play with the information from the document examiner. The NCAA acted only after the ETS invalidated Rose's test scores. The first letter the ETS sent to Rose asking for information about the test was on 4/17/08.

Incorrect

I'm done researching this because I've already been there and done that back when it happened.

Memphis/Cal was notified that Rose's test score was being questioned in Oct, 2007 and the season didn't start until Nov.

I remember reading the NCAAs ruling the summer of 2008 (after KU won the NC) that Memphis' own lawyers admitted to the NCAA that they knew they were taking a risk by playing Rose. It's in the public domain so you can go dig it up if you want.

I feel no need to re-prove what I know to be true to Cal supporters 7 years after the fact.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

Once again, you can simply read it all here:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2009-08-20-ncaa-memphis-report.pdf

If you're interested in what happened wrt the SAT scandal see pages 12-15.
If you're interested in what happened wrt the brother and free trips/housing/food see pages 10-11.

By the way, as rickyzwalters' said, the school was first notified in Oct. of 2007.

 

[nookam]

The fear is that they cheated. The mom knows she is guilty and the paperwork will probably point at her son as well. She has done enough damage to her son's career and I am sure she is just trying to stop the bleeding. You would still be hard pressed to convince me Cliff didn't sign those papers or at least know about it.

Cliff was 18 at the time a loan was taken out on HIS future earnings, you damned well better bet Cliff signed those papers. Any parent of a child over 18 knows you can't do squat without their signing. Cliff was an adult and plays by adult rules. They tried to hide that by including her so they could use her name.
Why did it take the NCAA coming to Self after discovery to sit him. No one questioned his dad (who was a (in/out jailbird) and family being able to afford attending all the home games? No one questioned the families week in Orlando with the team or a little trip to Philadelphia at Christmas time? No one saw the shades being worn indoors or in familiar seating in AFH? Self and others didn't want to question it, they knew the answer. Everyone knew they had their hands out...thus Cal stopped recruiting and Izzo publicly saying it was a dirty recruitment. Jerrance Howard lead recruiter among his guys in Chicago tells you all you need to know. Someone had to hook them up with a business who even done those kinds of loans. I doubt the Alexanders had any credit, but 18 yr old Cliff sure did.....maybe not so much now as before.

Also for the morons from Kansas who blame the mom....idiots. Her name was on a document as was Cliffs. The Alexanders/Howard/ whoever Howard hooked them up with in Chicago to send them to Florida, or he sent himself. The greedy, stupid Alexanders are to blame for any sabotage to Cliffs career. Cliff should look in the mirror or at the nice Bentley and many nice cars he posted. From a ghetto kid. Cliff is an adult, he was ask to provide the loan documentation, his answer of I don't have it would be enough to bring the book. Give it up or you are toast as in 28 games vacated and a bunch off pissed off people at you. The NCAA will do nothing...like McLemore...decision? nothing because it is Self. He only cheats....about every other year.

 

[saxonburgcat]

From reading all the posts in this thread I found no one who believes they can actually predict what the NCAA will do with absolute certainty in a given situation. And that the NCAA is clearly NOT consistent in their handling of various situations. So my personal desire is to NOT give the NCAA any cause to make a stupid ruling which could negatively impact my alma mater . Do I fear the NCAA could do something stupid and arbitrary? Yes. Do I think they will? No.

What I don't understand is why so many of you UK fans care what I think/want to happen or not happen? I'll eat my hat if at this point Cliffs Mom talks to the NCAA. She can only hurt her situation by doing so and stands to gain nothing. So it's over. You can close the books on this - nothing more is going to come of this.

Why does anyone care what I think anyway?

Actually, that is a good answer. The NCAA is NOT consistent and you are right that we don't know when they will decide to just hammer a program for whatever.

As I said early on, I am not a conspiracy nut but I also have seen that the inconsistencies have often hammered some programs and seeminly left another program untouched. I will never understand the Maggette situation except to believe that the NCAA was trying to cover for Coach K. As JPS said earlier, the NCAA has never explained why they ruled the way they did.

As for what you think, you posted here so I assume you wanted us to know what you think. VBG

 

[KentuckyWildcat4Life]

This is no more than another typical goose gander story with blind readers.

 

[Lumpy 2]

Incorrect

I'm done researching this because I've already been there and done that back when it happened.

Memphis/Cal was notified that Rose's test score was being questioned in Oct, 2007 and the season didn't start until Nov.

I remember reading the NCAAs ruling the summer of 2008 (after KU won the NC) that Memphis' own lawyers admitted to the NCAA that they knew they were taking a risk by playing Rose. It's in the public domain so you can go dig it up if you want.

I feel no need to re-prove what I know to be true to Cal supporters 7 years after the fact.

Here are some quotes from the NCAA report:

"The institution began an independent investigation related to the allegations involving student-athlete 1 which included a November, 2007 interview of him. The institution was unable to substantiate the allegations of academic improprieties involving student-athlete 1 and the institution cleared him to compete with the men's basketball team during the 2007-2008 season."

"The only evidence known to the institution suggesting that (student-athlete 1) did not take the May 5, 2007 SAT is provided by the forensic document examiner retained by the NCAA. Even the forensic document examination does not conclude definitively that(student-athlete 1) did not take the exam. She wrote only that (student-athlete 1) "probably (emphasis added) did not write the questioned hand printing and the cursive writing" on the exam form... This is not sufficient evidence for the institution to conclude that student-athlete 1 knowingly engaged in fraudulent conduct related to the exam."

If they use the same standard of proof as they did in the Rose case, Cliff and Kansas are gonna get hammered.

 

[rickyzwalters]

Cliff was 18 at the time a loan was taken out on HIS future earnings, you damned well better bet Cliff signed those papers. Any parent of a child over 18 knows you can't do squat without their signing. Cliff was an adult and plays by adult rules. They tried to hide that by including her so they could use her name.
Why did it take the NCAA coming to Self after discovery to sit him. No one questioned his dad (who was a (in/out jailbird) and family being able to afford attending all the home games? No one questioned the families week in Orlando with the team or a little trip to Philadelphia at Christmas time? No one saw the shades being worn indoors or in familiar seating in AFH? Self and others didn't want to question it, they knew the answer. Everyone knew they had their hands out...thus Cal stopped recruiting and Izzo publicly saying it was a dirty recruitment. Jerrance Howard lead recruiter among his guys in Chicago tells you all you need to know. Someone had to hook them up with a business who even done those kinds of loans. I doubt the Alexanders had any credit, but 18 yr old Cliff sure did.....maybe not so much now as before.

Also for the morons from Kansas who blame the mom....idiots. Her name was on a document as was Cliffs. The Alexanders/Howard/ whoever Howard hooked them up with in Chicago to send them to Florida, or he sent himself. The greedy, stupid Alexanders are to blame for any sabotage to Cliffs career. Cliff should look in the mirror or at the nice Bentley and many nice cars he posted. From a ghetto kid. Cliff is an adult, he was ask to provide the loan documentation, his answer of I don't have it would be enough to bring the book. Give it up or you are toast as in 28 games vacated and a bunch off pissed off people at you. The NCAA will do nothing...like McLemore...decision? nothing because it is Self. He only cheats....about every other year.

It seems Plausible, logical, and even probable that Cliff signed the loan papers with his Mom. I agree with you on this.

As for your statment, "Her name was on a document as was Cliffs." it may be what you think and or believe but there is zero evidence to back it up.

Cliff has said that he didn't know about the loan and there is NO public evidence that the NCAA has that they can rule on. And now that he's declared the NCAA has no reason to spend time on Cliff's eligibility going forward since he's now considered a pro.

The ONLY reason the NCAA would spend time on this going forward is if A) Alexander's family gives them new evidence and that's not going to happen OR B) the NCAA thinks that Self/KU knew about the loan. Does anyone here (other than a couple nuts like you) know of any reason that they should suspect that Self/KU knew about this? Other than the general UK fans' desire to see the NCAA get KU?

So just to confirm, you believe Self does something knowingly against the rules to gain a recruit (or recruits) "about every other year", that's your position?

That's where you lost me and most reasonable thinking people- KU fan, UK fan or whatever.

It's about as crazy as a KU fan (or any other kind really) alleging Cal must be cheating to be able to get all those OADs every year.

 

[rickyzwalters]

Here are some quotes from the NCAA report:

"The institution began an independent investigation related to the allegations involving student-athlete 1 which included a November, 2007 interview of him. The institution was unable to substantiate the allegations of academic improprieties involving student-athlete 1 and the institution cleared him to compete with the men's basketball team during the 2007-2008 season."

"The only evidence known to the institution suggesting that (student-athlete 1) did not take the May 5, 2007 SAT is provided by the forensic document examiner retained by the NCAA. Even the forensic document examination does not conclude definitively that(student-athlete 1) did not take the exam. She wrote only that (student-athlete 1) "probably (emphasis added) did not write the questioned hand printing and the cursive writing" on the exam form... This is not sufficient evidence for the institution to conclude that student-athlete 1 knowingly engaged in fraudulent conduct related to the exam."

If they use the same standard of proof as they did in the Rose case, Cliff and Kansas are gonna get hammered.

So I guess you've finally discovered that Rose/Memphis/Cal knew the test score required for eligibility was in Question BEFORE the season started since they interviewed Rose about it in November.

Thank you for FINALLY admitting this.

So when do you allege that Self/KU learned of any question of Cliff's eligibility? Some time prior to Self sitting him?

 

[saxonburgcat]

It seems Plausible, logical, and even probable that Cliff signed the loan papers with his Mom. I agree with you on this.

As for your statment, "Her name was on a document as was Cliffs." it may be what you think and or believe but there is zero evidence to back it up.

Cliff has said that he didn't know about the loan and there is NO public evidence that the NCAA has that they can rule on. And now that he's declared the NCAA has no reason to spend time on Cliff's eligibility going forward since he's now considered a pro.

The ONLY reason the NCAA would spend time on this going forward is if A) Alexander's family gives them new evidence and that's not going to happen OR B) the NCAA thinks that Self/KU knew about the loan. Does anyone here (other than a couple nuts like you) know of any reason that they should suspect that Self/KU knew about this? Other than the general UK fans' desire to see the NCAA get KU?

Here is what I could find:

"Mr. Alexander has been ready, willing, and able to be interviewed since March 2nd, yet he has been informed that the NCAA will not interview him until they receive additonal documents that are not his documents, the content of which he has no knowledge, and documents which have never been in his control or possession.

 

[Lumpy 2]

So I guess you've finally discovered that Rose/Memphis/Cal knew the test score required for eligibility was in Question BEFORE the season started since they interviewed Rose about it in November.

Thank you for FINALLY admitting this.

So when do you allege that Self/KU learned of any question of Cliff's eligibility? Some time prior to Self sitting him?

Every athlete's eligibility is questioned BEFORE their freshman season. Their high school transcripts and SAT/ACT scores are sent to the NCAA Clearinghouse to determine eligibility. In Rose's case there were allegations about the validity of his SAT and he was interviewed by the NCAA. They determined there was insufficient evidence to prove the allegations and Rose was cleared to play. Rose/Memphis/Cal knew the test score was in question and they also knew he was cleared to compete BEFORE the season started.

 

[nookam]

It seems Plausible, logical, and even probable that Cliff signed the loan papers with his Mom. I agree with you on this.

As for your statment, "Her name was on a document as was Cliffs." it may be what you think and or believe but there is zero evidence to back it up.

Cliff has said that he didn't know about the loan and there is NO public evidence that the NCAA has that they can rule on. And now that he's declared the NCAA has no reason to spend time on Cliff's eligibility going forward since he's now considered a pro.

The ONLY reason the NCAA would spend time on this going forward is if A) Alexander's family gives them new evidence and that's not going to happen OR B) the NCAA thinks that Self/KU knew about the loan. Does anyone here (other than a couple nuts like you) know of any reason that they should suspect that Self/KU knew about this? Other than the general UK fans' desire to see the NCAA get KU?

So just to confirm, you believe Self does something knowingly against the rules to gain a recruit (or recruits) "about every other year", that's your position?

That's where you lost me and most reasonable thinking people- KU fan, UK fan or whatever.

It's about as crazy as a KU fan (or any other kind really) alleging Cal must be cheating to be able to get all those OADs every year.

Just how dumb is Cliff if he expects us to believe he didn't know. Of course he would see nothing new around him or suddenly pops not selling crack, and having the money to travel to all the home and ROAD games. Wow! a weeks vacation in Orlando!. 7 kids in that family, and Cliff notices nothing strange? His family always had money for trips. I would love to see the loan cross referenced with food stamp/welfare check eligibility. Could be a way of forcing their hand. Self jad to know something was wrong with his recruitment when Cal just stopped. For Gods sake, Izzo flatly proclaimed publicly that it was a dirty recruitment.....everyone in Chicago knew the hand was out. No way Cal knew and Izzo did and Self didn't. Again Cliff was an adult, I can't get my kids report card or medical reports, unless he signs. Anyone loaning a large amount of money on HIS future earnings are getting that 18 yr old signature.
I guess you think McLemore was clean too? many violations that should have resulted in games vacated. I mean Rodney Blackstock a known runner sitting in Ben's seats in AFH....signed and approved by KU Compliance.

 

[rickyzwalters]

Every athlete's eligibility is questioned BEFORE their freshman season. Their high school transcripts and SAT/ACT scores are sent to the NCAA Clearinghouse to determine eligibility. In Rose's case there were allegations about the validity of his SAT and he was interviewed by the NCAA. They determined there was insufficient evidence to prove the allegations and Rose was cleared to play. Rose/Memphis/Cal knew the test score was in question and they also knew he was cleared to compete BEFORE the season started.

You're still fighting this huh? Either you lack the intelligence to connect the dots or you refuse to. My bet is the latter.

The testing board met with Rose to question him about him taking the test before the season. Then they continued their own investigation and ultimately ruled that Rose did not take his own test. They had 3 previous "failed" tests by Rose to compare it to. And once they ruled the test was invalid Rose was declared Ineligible by the NCAA. If this wasn't an OBVIOUS risk by playing Rose I don't know what is.

Memphis own attorneys admitted to the NCAA during their investigation that Memphis/Cal knew they were taking a risk by playing Rose given the questions about having a true passing test score.

Cal gambled it would work out. Memphis lost Cal's gamble. Cal was playing with Memphis chips and not his own. He cashed his in with UK for a jackpot when he left.

When has KU/Self gambled with the NCAA on Alexander or anyone else on an issue that there is evidence that they KNEW ABOUT? KU/Self hasn't. End of story.

 

[rickyzwalters]

Just how dumb is Cliff if he expects us to believe he didn't know. Of course he would see nothing new around him or suddenly pops not selling crack, and having the money to travel to all the home and ROAD games. Wow! a weeks vacation in Orlando!. 7 kids in that family, and Cliff notices nothing strange? His family always had money for trips. I would love to see the loan cross referenced with food stamp/welfare check eligibility. Could be a way of forcing their hand. Self jad to know something was wrong with his recruitment when Cal just stopped. For Gods sake, Izzo flatly proclaimed publicly that it was a dirty recruitment.....everyone in Chicago knew the hand was out. No way Cal knew and Izzo did and Self didn't. Again Cliff was an adult, I can't get my kids report card or medical reports, unless he signs. Anyone loaning a large amount of money on HIS future earnings are getting that 18 yr old signature.
I guess you think McLemore was clean too? many violations that should have resulted in games vacated. I mean Rodney Blackstock a known runner sitting in Ben's seats in AFH....signed and approved by KU Compliance.

Cool story bro. Because that's all it is... a story.

You can keep making all kinds of accusations but for the NCAA to act and punish a program they normally require proof. That's the real world, not your song of "I hope the NCAA nails nasty dirty cheatin' Bill Self that perpetual cheater"

Seriously good luck with all your frustration because like the classic Stones song you'll be singing this for a very long time.."I can't get no satisfaction".

 

[Lumpy 2]

You're still fighting this huh? Either you lack the intelligence to connect the dots or you refuse to. My bet is the latter.

The testing board met with Rose to question him about him taking the test before the season. Then they continued their own investigation and ultimately ruled that Rose did not take his own test. They had 3 previous "failed" tests by Rose to compare it to. And once they ruled the test was invalid Rose was declared Ineligible by the NCAA. If this wasn't an OBVIOUS risk by playing Rose I don't know what is.

Memphis own attorneys admitted to the NCAA during their investigation that Memphis/Cal knew they were taking a risk by playing Rose given the questions about having a true passing test score.

Cal gambled it would work out. Memphis lost Cal's gamble. Cal was playing with Memphis chips and not his own. He cashed his in with UK for a jackpot when he left.

When has KU/Self gambled with the NCAA on Alexander or anyone else on an issue that there is evidence that they KNEW ABOUT? KU/Self hasn't. End of story.

After reading some of the idiotic claims you have made I don't think you're in a position to question anyone's intelligence. You say they had Rose's 3 previous failed to compare with the last one. You don't even know those previous tests were the ACT and the last 1 was the SAT. You say the testing board met with Rose to question him about taking the test before the season. Prove it or you're lying.You say Memphis' own attorneys admitted to the NCAA during their investigation that Memphis/Cal knew they were taking a risk by playing Rose given the questions about having a true passing test score. Again, prove it or you're lying.

I don't know if you are incapable of comprehending what you've read or you're just a habitual liar. It must be one or the other.

 

[saxonburgcat]

Lumpy or someone else,

I watched this video and they said that when ETS invalidates scores, the universities are never notified. How is it that the NCAA and/or Memphis was notified in this case?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-perfect-score-cheating-on-the-sat/

 

[rickyzwalters]

After reading some of the idiotic claims you have made I don't think you're in a position to question anyone's intelligence. You say they had Rose's 3 previous failed to compare with the last one. You don't even know those previous tests were the ACT and the last 1 was the SAT. You say the testing board met with Rose to question him about taking the test before the season. Prove it or you're lying.You say Memphis' own attorneys admitted to the NCAA during their investigation that Memphis/Cal knew they were taking a risk by playing Rose given the questions about having a true passing test score. Again, prove it or you're lying.

I don't know if you are incapable of comprehending what you've read or you're just a habitual liar. It must be one or the other.

Check your own post above #375 - Rose was interviewed about it in Nov.

In your own post.

 

[saxonburgcat]

Check your own post above #375 - Rose was interviewed about it in Nov.

In your own post.

The "institution" is the University of Memphis and not ETS.