So when the dust settles, do Jasper Johnson and Malachi Moreno end up at KY ?
- Thread starter Uncle Adolph
- Start date
UConn had three guys from Connecticut. Two hardly played, one was their best player.
Purdue had 12 guys on their roster from Indiana. 3 averaged double digit points and 4 others averaged something like 4-7 ppg.
NC State had 7 guys from NC. One averaged 17 a game and one four. The rest didn’t see the floor much.
Alabama had one player from Alabama. He was their best averaging almost 22 ppg.
So from last seasons final four, two teams found their leading scorer from in state. One certainly their best player, even though he wasn’t their leading scorer. And the final team had their 2, 3 and 4 scorers all as in state guys.
If you look at the elite 8 teams, Clemson’s leading scorer is from South Carolina.
Illinois’ leading scorer is from Illinois.
UT and Duke only had one combined contributor from within their state.
You certainly don’t have to have a roster full of guys and most everyone has several in state walk-ons, but last years best all relied very heavily on in state guys. The last few national titles we won we also had major contributors from within the state.
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One of those 3 is Hurley's son that likely wasn't even from Uconn. He just went there due to his dad.
Purdue was Zach Edey and a bunch of other dudes. Take Edey away and how do you think Purdue fares? Literally, the one dude not from IN carried their team to the NC.
NC state sucked all year and went on a Cinderella run thanks to a player that wasn't from NC. They were hell of fun to root for, but I don’t think that is the model we are shooting for.
If you can get a great player from KY, you take them. But trying to constantly recruit as many KY players as possible or prefering a player simply because he is a KY kid will get us beat far more often than not.
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Normally, I’d agree with you. The state of Kentucky, recently, has not been known for putting out highly ranked prospects and Kentucky shouldn’t recruit players from Kentucky just because they’re from Kentucky.
Totally agree.
However, the issue I have with starting this whole thing is neither Johnson nor Moreno fall under that category. For the following points I am referencing on3.com which considers their own ranking, 247, rivals, and ESPN….
Jasper Johnson is a consensus top 16 recruit. Ranked as high as #8 and as low as #16. Hardly a recruit that you can say Pope is offering just because he’s from Kentucky.
Moreno is a bit fuzzier due to his ESPN ranking, being all the way down at 68. But they still have him in their top 75 prospects in the entire country for his class. Aside from that outlier he is ranked at #17 by on3, #24 by rivals, and #26 by 247.
Again, I would be hard pressed to criticize Pope for trying to recruit either of these players. They are both ranked higher in their respective class than Travis Perry is in his and I haven’t seen you criticize Pope for trying to retain Perry…
I think both players deserve to be recruited by Pope and UK. I wouldn’t want them to be the only recruits we offer but to suggest they aren’t good enough to play here, at this stage, is putting the cart so far ahead of the horse that it’s a wonder why you even bothered rigging the cart to be pulled by horses.
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It would be interesting to see what fan gear he hangs/presents in his room. Many recruits slant things based on the interviewer. It is very rare for a person to root for both UK and UNC! There is a difference between liking and rooting for a team!
I have no idea which he roots for, but I hope he plays for Ky.
I certainly think Jasper is the level of player to be successful here. I just mentioned he has a tendency to be pretty inconsistent at this point. He certainly has the talent.
Moreno I know very little about. He seem to have legit size.
Don’t crush me for staying my opinion because that’s all it is, an opinion, but I don’t know that either are deal breakers. Jasper, as stated already is very inconsistent imo and has a tendency to disappear in games. Moreno is more of a long term guy imo. Now don’t get me wrong, they both have big potential but neither are instant impact guys imo.
I’m not saying that at all. But it would still be a heck of a start.
Yeah the kids from Indiana they gave gotten and the ones Purdue have gotten aren’t the reason they lose. Indiana needs a couple more honestly, they used to be able to shoot at least. Haven’t had that under Woodson but his style is old and doesn’t work. Until that changes they won’t win big either.
Knight won 3 championships btw, they already had 2 titles under Branch McCraken.
Jasper got picked for team USA and usually those guys are impact players. Moreno also was considered.
Let's see how they do without edny.
They also lost to a 16 seed in 1st round and 15 seed n 2nd round before the run this year.
As for the OPs thread, who knows. Only the players.
See i didn't even know knight didn't win all Indiana's titles that's pretty bad. Also thanks bradcats I didn't want to have to look it up. I knew some teams had more than 2 players from state though. If we got them 2 it would be 4, and no i don't expect to have 4 instate kids every year. You need to also to appeal to out of state kids too.
I don't think that is factually correct. Seems like from a scholarship and/or rotation, only running about 2-3 guys per year.
For this coming year 4 of their 12 guys are from IN. Last year it was 5, year before that it was 6, year before that it was 6, year before that it was 9, year before that it was 8, year before that it was 7.
I'm sure going back further, it will be about the same. This coming year, they appear to be trending away from that method, but we shall see.
Fact of the matter is, they have suffered because for the most part they lack talent which has resulted in them settling for lesser talented in state recruits, which I would prefer us not do. I am not saying Johnson and Moreno are that type, but I also don't know squat about Moreno. People just seem to possess this idea that we need to go after every KY player possible, and that's a bad recipe for success.
Again Purdue. 12 players from Indiana. Been very good. Big 10 champs.
Again, they were good because of Zach Edey. He wasn't from the US, let alone IN. And they just lost to 16 seed a year ago as a 1 seed for only the 2nd time ever.
Cmon man. They just lost in the National title game. They have been good for years. 12 instate players. Edey was the centerpiece but they have talent. Instate talent
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I agree with you to an extent. I think Moreno impacts everything really well. Not great, but really good at everything. Only his body needs a lot of work. I am a little concerned about JJ because he seems to only score well but is a bit underwhelming everywhere else. If you can only have one trait you want it to be scoring though. This will be interesting to see how pope can teach JJ over several years, not just one year.
Kentucky kids know things about being at Kentucky that other kids don’t. They understand the assignment, the fanbase, the culture, and what the team is about. That’s the kind of thing you want on your roster for several reasons. These days they’re far more likely to never leave. That’s a huge incentive to go after them. For two they keep fans engaged and bring something to the table we don’t have in sports anymore, loyalty. They make it matter more and we need more of that not less. I tend also think a state kid deserves more of a shot than a fringe directional player from somewhere else.
All things considered they’re worth the chance whether some think they’re as good as some one else or not. You can’t always do it this way but you can make a point to look into each state kid and see if he’s worth taking a chance on. If he’s a top recruit it’s not even debatable.
And, the head coach of Kentucky, Mark Pope, agrees with me. I think that gives all you need to say it’s a more valuable opinion than rando posters.
All things considered they’re worth the chance whether some think they’re as good as some one else or not. You can’t always do it this way but you can make a point to look into each state kid and see if he’s worth taking a chance on. If he’s a top recruit it’s not even debatable.
And, the head coach of Kentucky, Mark Pope, agrees with me. I think that gives all you need to say it’s a more valuable opinion than rando posters.
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Weird, people had the exact opposite takes when melting down about Trent Noah not being offered initially.
"Kentucky kids understand..." is just BS if the talent isn't there.
People love to say that UK would have never won the championship in 2012 without in-state guy, Darius Miller. However, no one brings up the fact that he was also a Parade All-American and consensus top 50 in high school.
People love to say that UK would have never won the championship in 2012 without in-state guy, Darius Miller. However, no one brings up the fact that he was also a Parade All-American and consensus top 50 in high school.
Well I was referring to guys who actually play...not walk-ons and end of bench scholarship guys.
Highly doubt Pope will have a challenge with player scouting. This staff knows what they are looking for.
I don't care where guys are from. Johnson is being recruited by UNC, Alabama, Auburn and others...don't thing he fits the mold of a regular KY kid.
I took know very little about Moreno and frankly bigs take so long to develop in general that I'm more keen on going after those guys in the portal. If he is a fit and can make an impact though, sign him.
This isn’t the first year Purdue has been good though. They always rely on on state kids, and they win the Big 10 quite often and compete well.
Of course they have to have talent but Moreno and Johnson tick all those boxes as well.
They just lost to a 16 seed the year before. Take Zach Edey off of that team, snd do you honestly think they would have even been in the tournament?
I'm talking about wasting spots for in-state kids just because they are in-state. That's exactly what IU, Purdue and most of the other programs with a lot of in-state players have done.
I don’t care where they are from if they are good enough to be here. But most players from KY just aren't at that level. We may have 1 of 2 in a really good year that are good enough to actually play here. Get those guys and let the rest go elsewhere.
Yea, I think Johnson has talent, just a little unpolished and inconsistent at times. I don't know much about Moreno, but he seems more long-term project than immediate impact type.
They were good the last 2 years thanks solely to Edey. Remove him from the team and they suck. Prior to that, they made a surprise run to the E8 in 18/19 when they went 26-10 overall. They have a couple other SW16 appearances the last decade.
They have won 2 big 10 tournaments. And they have won the big 12 regular season a few times.
They have the most Big 10 conference titles of any team in basketball in the conference.
Talent needs to be there or you won’t be recruited. A two star state kid is also called a walkon. But a kid good enough to play at UK who’s also from the state is a HUGE plus many times over. They do get it more and your teams are built different when they’re on the roster. I don’t think it’s even debatable from a coaching standpoint. Pope and many coaches have spoke to this very thing. Calipari didn’t because he was more interested in stacking NBA players than building cohesive basketball teams. But in state players do bring some things to the table that other kids do not. Some of it is hard to define in ways but this is something Pope has even touched on.
Also today they’re much more likely to stay which is another reason you want them.
They've also been in the conferene longer than anyone but MN. They already had 4 of those before IU, OH st or Michigan even joined the Big10. Michigan St didn't even join until 1957, by which time Purdue had already won it 13 times.
This century MSU has won it 8 times to Purdue's 5. Wisconsin has 6 in that same span, IL, OH st also have 5 each.
That's not really that impressive considering.
Obviously you’re not being serious but in tradition of your time here, I don’t think Reed helps your argument.
I’ll just say coaches really don’t agree with you so I’ll probably take their points with more value. Pope began his time here trying to retain 1 in state kid and signing two more. lol.
1 of them a 3 star. He definitely understands their value.
Something else that should be noted and again, I wouldn’t look past it, is in an era where you need players to be retained and it’s harder and harder to build a cohesive team in college basketball, instate kids help bridge that gap and are more likely to stay. They can mean more for NIL deals as they’re more recognized so they’re more likely to get more here than other places. Then your building a core of the team who know what it means to play at UK, this kind of thing rubs off on other guys. It’s a great way to build team continuity.
I know exactly why coaches want it if they can get it. It’s not meaning you can always do it but you definitely try.
I know exactly why coaches want it if they can get it. It’s not meaning you can always do it but you definitely try.
You could fill out a div 1 roster with Ind kids in 2 years and be competitive nationally and I hate IU
I'm being very serious. We had the best player KY has produced in possibly decades and it didn't really change a thing. He still collapsed in the post-season, likely most the rest of the team. So, I think that help the argument some.
Lol, Reed said "hell no" and Perry and Noah are going to likely be the 11th and 12th men on the team. Possibly even lower if we add another player.
He understood he needed players to fill out a roster and they wanted to come. They understood they could get more NIL money at UK than elsewhere. So they are both cool taking smaller roles in return for money.
Altho if they are good enough to go... bye. I thought we'd get another year from Reed
